First Time Saying This

[ScottCavBBQ]

I am usually the guy defending this band at all costs. been going to shows since 1994, tonight in clarkston was show 53. i am the guy who finds something good about every album, i know times change, the band changes and evolves. every show ive been at i have found to be still exciting and entertaining. i enjoy hearing the classics with some oddball songs i havent seen in a long time or not at all sprinkled in. once again, have been able to find the good and the positive in everything this band has done. always thought my hometown venue was very underrated and got great shows. they have played there at least half the years in my 25 years seeing this band. tonight is the first time i am walking away feeling let down. i dig buddy, i once again am alright with the band being different than it was, but for the first time im walking away feeling like i didnt see anything special, and ive never felt this way. i like cant stop in its new form and saw that tonight for the first time, and my first sugar will since 2004 deer creek but other than that, it was the same old stuff ive seen forever, and cant stop isnt that great and sugar will is nowhere near what it was with roi, and the show ends at 10:45 instead of 11:00? just really for the first time feeling like the show was mailed in. so much, too much, nancies, stay, ddtw...just all the same stuff ive seen so many times. an astb that hasnt changed at all in years. just really let down.

[Bmwm3oz]

First time I felt that way was Chicago N1 last year.

[DEMITRI]

Literally just posted this in the set list chat, feels like a statement I want to reiterate here cuz I agree to some extent:

Tonights show is literally just a combination of both nights at alpine..... kinda makes those shows a little lackluster to me now.... I had a really really good time at alpine don’t get me wrong, saw a lot of songs I wanted to see (specifically sugar will) but if I’m being honest I was really really hoping for something big at alpine. Like the if I had it all lib from a couple shows before. Not saying a liberation is always good but like maybe a shotgun or a kit Kat jam or something. Idk. The more I think of it, and after seeing tonight’s show on paper it seems alpine was more run of the mill than I initially thought..... that being said both nights were incredible, I’m strictly speaking on variety of songs/rarity. And ending early on night two was a bummer. Like toss us a Halloween at the end there dave.

Now to get back to what you said, I actually enjoy buddy quite a bit and actually really love how the band sounds now. I also really liked come tomorrow and like hearing those songs, and really almost any song. It’s just sometimes these sets seem very uninspired and lazy. Idk especially on a two night stand like dig deeper into your catalog. Play the shit you like/people want to hear but like hit your hardcore fans with some love too. Idk I literally never complain about this type of stuff but just seeing this set tonight and looking back at alpine and even tinley I’m kinda like whatever about it.

[ScottCavBBQ]

totally feel ya demitri, i know im in the minority but i enjoy new material alot, just because the big 3 songs ive seen forever. so i usually can walk away from a show and be like, ya the staples were cool but i finally saw this song and this song, or like u said, saw an unreleased track like a shotgun again for the first time in forever. tonight though, geez, if im gonna see songs again for the tenth or twentieth time, give me seek up or typical or warehouse. instead its so much too much ddtw and stay, and my two rare nuggets are cant stop and a sugar will thats half the song it was 15 years ago. i almost skipped going tonight just cuz i didnt have tickets and really had to rush to the venue, and this is the show i get and they end 15 minutes early? i feel like i put in more effort getting there and finding a ticket in the lot than the band gave me tonight. just really dont know how to feel for the first time

[Cobo]

Tonight was the most disappointing show I’ve ever seen put on by a major performing artist. Even the good songs were ruined by the abysmal sound system they had running tonight. So bummed it skipped my local club show (pyramid scheme , Grand Rapids MI) for this horse shit tonight.

[Cobo]

Also, Sugar Will was a fucking train wreck. Not a highlight in that incarnation.

[ISawTheBridge10]

Where was everyone that the sound was so terrible? I thought everything sounded great from
the lawn.

[tablesturned34]

It's hard for me to admit, but I must say that I agree. Especially with the comments about sugar will. I am excited when it pops up, but then so let down at the entire song. I took my kids to Riverbend, and I had to force myself to be excited and pumped up, as they were having a great time. I didn't want to ruin the experience for them. But in the back of my mind, I was thinking how Sugar Will in 04 used to have this big long intro, and it flowed and was smooth and he didn't say the word "good" where it should be "sweet" (my kids say sweet). Anyway, my first post ever. Long time lurker. I guess I just really feel strong enough about this to post. Don't get me wrong, the band sounds good, they are mostly good songs, but yes, something is missing. And maybe we can't put it into words. Maybe it's Roi, maybe it's the violin, maybe they are just aging. It seems to happen to all of us. Regardless of any of that, Dave's songs will still move us, and the will always mean the world to me. I think eventually, it will be Dave on stage with a guitar, and he will do that til he dies--at least we can hope--and that will not get old.

[Tomacco]

You should be happy it took 53 shows for you to walk away let down.
My 6th (8/30/03) show I left disappointed, and it’s happened at least 6 or 7 times since.

[dobyblue]

The only Sugar Will I ever liked back in 2004 when I saw it 7 times, was the GGP one with Santana. All other plays, for me, just zapped the energy of the show they were played at. Would much rather see Joyride, Wynona, Busted Stuff, Beach Ball, Broken Things, KKJ, Spoon, PFWYG, Dreaming Tree, etc., be liberated.

[ToySoldier#34]

First time I left disappointed was 2007, some of the best shows I've seen were 2008 and 2009

[parks3923]

The worst part is that Dave doesn't even care anymore. The setlists have been predictable for the past 3 or 4 years for the most part. Their new music is no where near the old stuff and they refuse to play what the their fans want to hear. I know its said through this site a lot, but start following phish if you want to see a band who cares about their fans. I jumped the DMB ship a while ago. I'll still go see them when they come around because its a tradition now, but I never go in expecting anything more than a C+ show.

[Cobo]

The funny thing is that I go into these shows with no expectations. Drink some beer, smoke some grass, and enjoy the company/music. Even with no expectations, I just couldn’t get into it last night and ending 20 minutes before curfew was the icing on the cake. Dave didn’t say much of anything to the crowd last night, either.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by parks3923

The worst part is that Dave doesn't even care anymore. The setlists have been predictable for the past 3 or 4 years for the most part. Their new music is no where near the old stuff and they refuse to play what the their fans want to hear. I know its said through this site a lot, but start following phish if you want to see a band who cares about their fans. I jumped the DMB ship a while ago. I'll still go see them when they come around because its a tradition now, but I never go in expecting anything more than a C+ show.

Were you expecting YNK, Tripping Billies, triplets, ASTB openers and Two Step, BOWA, FHTSA E1 slots within the last couple shows? Right Place, Wrong Time with Preservation Hall Jazz Band and segues that have never happened before?

[DEMITRI]

Look, we also need to be honest with ourselves cuz if you look back at like the “best” years their setlists consisted of mostly the same stuff throughout the tour. 2004 for example had a lot of the same songs being played each show. That’s not what my problem is. The problem is like they choose to just shelve these really great songs and continue playing some that they’ve played literally forever. Yes most of them are hits but that doesn’t mean they can’t be retired for a bit. I love don’t drink the water however like Dave can’t even sing the “home” part anymore. Shelve that one. Make people miss it. I know people are gonna say “well what about jimi” but realistically that’s one of their most recognizable songs even to non fans like they are gonna play that as much as ants and crash. Shelve a song like don’t drink the water and replace it with one that simply doesn’t get played often or at all. Even if it’s a song that’s not nearly as popular like mother father, or what you are, or something. Have that be a staple for a tour. Idk those are my complaints. I love going to see the band it’s just coming to the point where when people ask me “why do you go see the same band so often don’t they play the same songs” I’m starting to lie to them and to myself lol

[YankeesDMB41]

You've reached your point of burnout. Stop giving them your money.

[TheLastPig]

The pattern of ending shows 15+ mins before curfew isn’t a good sign.

Makes me wonder when DC N1 and Alpine N1 would’ve ended if they weren’t being broadcast on sirius, given the following nights for both ended well before 11.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

The pattern of ending shows 15+ mins before curfew isn’t a good sign.

Makes me wonder when DC N1 and Alpine N1 would’ve ended if they weren’t being broadcast on sirius, given the following nights for both ended well before 11.

They should definitely be playing until 11, it annoys me when most other non-DMB shows I see feel too short which seems to be more and more common

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by parks3923

The worst part is that Dave doesn't even care anymore. The setlists have been predictable for the past 3 or 4 years for the most part. Their new music is no where near the old stuff and they refuse to play what the their fans want to hear. I know its said through this site a lot, but start following phish if you want to see a band who cares about their fans. I jumped the DMB ship a while ago. I'll still go see them when they come around because its a tradition now, but I never go in expecting anything more than a C+ show.

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

You've reached your point of burnout. Stop giving them your money.

these sorts of threads pop up every year (rightfully so, band is past their prime, no longer innovative)...but these responses are the worst.

[bowa36]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

these sorts of threads pop up every year (rightfully so, band is past their prime, no longer innovative)...but these responses are the worst.

Why are they the worst?

[be_MERRY]

I feel like 2012 was the last year we got really good sets...maybe I was lucky in the shows I attended, getting multiple Dreaming Trees, Halloweens, Pigs, YNK...I feel like every year after that the sets have been eh. Again it could just have been the shows I attended in 2012 (Alpine, DC, Pittsburgh) were freaking unreal two night stands. I mean this set would be incredible today.

http://www.dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSe...117&where=2012

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by be_MERRY

I feel like 2012 was the last year we got really good sets...maybe I was lucky in the shows I attended, getting multiple Dreaming Trees, Halloweens, Pigs, YNK...I feel like every year after that the sets have been eh. Again it could just have been the shows I attended in 2012 (Alpine, DC, Pittsburgh) were freaking unreal two night stands. I mean this set would be incredible today.

http://www.dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSe...117&where=2012

It really wouldn't be IMO, Dreaming Tree and Blue Water partial are the only things that stand out from what is in rotation now, plus the sets now have songs like YNK, JTR, Seek Up etc. that are on that level for a lot of fans

[YankeesDMB41]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

these sorts of threads pop up every year (rightfully so, band is past their prime, no longer innovative)...but these responses are the worst.

Originally Posted by bowa36

Why are they the worst?

I'm being 100 percent serious. I'm not one of those "YOULL MISS DMB WHEN THEY'RE NOT TOURING ANYMORE!!!!" people at all....What I am saying is that I could almost guarantee the show had a lot of energy and the performances were great, so if the setlist choices are so bad that he's considering it the worst concert he ever attended, he's reached his breaking point...take the money next summer and put it towards something else.

[BTBaboon]

Originally Posted by Cobo

The funny thing is that I go into these shows with no expectations. Drink some beer, smoke some grass, and enjoy the company/music. Even with no expectations, I just couldn’t get into it last night and ending 20 minutes before curfew was the icing on the cake. Dave didn’t say much of anything to the crowd last night, either.

Yeah, this is a problem. People can claim that everyone had fun at shows like Nashville, and a set-on-paper isn't the same as a set-at-the-show, but at the end of the day I think a lot of people are getting tired of the same old junk.

Originally Posted by DEMITRI

Look, we also need to be honest with ourselves cuz if you look back at like the “best” years their setlists consisted of mostly the same stuff throughout the tour. 2004 for example had a lot of the same songs being played each show. That’s not what my problem is. The problem is like they choose to just shelve these really great songs and continue playing some that they’ve played literally forever.

Yup. Some quick numbers from the past 10 years:

Don't Drink the Water: 392 plays
You & Me: 353 plays
Jimi Thing: 312
Funny the Way it Is: 292 plays

Lover Lay Down: 44 plays
The Dreaming Tree: 34 plays
The Last Stop: 20 plays
Cry Freedom: 18 plays
Spoon: 16 plays
Pay for What You get: 10 plays

The play count discrepancy between "good" and "bad" songs is heavily titled in the wrong direction

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

The pattern of ending shows 15+ mins before curfew isn’t a good sign.

Makes me wonder when DC N1 and Alpine N1 would’ve ended if they weren’t being broadcast on sirius, given the following nights for both ended well before 11.

Yeah, this is bad, too. Songs are shorter than ever, and they're still playing just 20 per night. Leads to only playing til 10:40ish. When you toss in the ticket cost increases over the past few year and the elimination of openers, you're paying more for less; and that doesn't even account for the lower quality product on stage.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by BTBaboon

The play count discrepancy between "good" and "bad" songs is heavily titled in the wrong direction

Those are all good songs though

[RiotAct]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

these sorts of threads pop up every year (rightfully so, band is past their prime, no longer innovative)...but these responses are the worst.

YDMB41 is spot-on.

[daveindyman]

Originally Posted by DEMITRI

Literally just posted this in the set list chat, feels like a statement I want to reiterate here cuz I agree to some extent:

Tonights show is literally just a combination of both nights at alpine..... kinda makes those shows a little lackluster to me now.... I had a really really good time at alpine don’t get me wrong, saw a lot of songs I wanted to see (specifically sugar will) but if I’m being honest I was really really hoping for something big at alpine. Like the if I had it all lib from a couple shows before. Not saying a liberation is always good but like maybe a shotgun or a kit Kat jam or something. Idk. The more I think of it, and after seeing tonight’s show on paper it seems alpine was more run of the mill than I initially thought..... that being said both nights were incredible, I’m strictly speaking on variety of songs/rarity. And ending early on night two was a bummer. Like toss us a Halloween at the end there dave.

Now to get back to what you said, I actually enjoy buddy quite a bit and actually really love how the band sounds now. I also really liked come tomorrow and like hearing those songs, and really almost any song. It’s just sometimes these sets seem very uninspired and lazy. Idk especially on a two night stand like dig deeper into your catalog. Play the shit you like/people want to hear but like hit your hardcore fans with some love too. Idk I literally never complain about this type of stuff but just seeing this set tonight and looking back at alpine and even tinley I’m kinda like whatever about it.

Isn't an issue that no one is talking about is that the whole Midwest run is done in like a week and a half when normally it is more spread out? When you have what 7 shows in 12 days with Deer Creek & Alpine in back to back weekends, chances are you are going to see lots of repeats amongst all those shows.

[davem#36]

Originally Posted by be_MERRY

I feel like 2012 was the last year we got really good sets...maybe I was lucky in the shows I attended, getting multiple Dreaming Trees, Halloweens, Pigs, YNK...I feel like every year after that the sets have been eh. Again it could just have been the shows I attended in 2012 (Alpine, DC, Pittsburgh) were freaking unreal two night stands. I mean this set would be incredible today.

http://www.dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSe...117&where=2012

Such a refreshing looking set with an all timer encore taboot

[bowa36]

Originally Posted by be_MERRY

I feel like 2012 was the last year we got really good sets...maybe I was lucky in the shows I attended, getting multiple Dreaming Trees, Halloweens, Pigs, YNK...I feel like every year after that the sets have been eh. Again it could just have been the shows I attended in 2012 (Alpine, DC, Pittsburgh) were freaking unreal two night stands. I mean this set would be incredible today.

http://www.dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSe...117&where=2012

13 was better