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Old 10-14-2018, 06:01 PM   #1
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Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

Two discs that contain genuine unreleased studio recordings from the Mark Batson era are making their rounds on the Internet. And so we had to call an emergency podcast session to talk about this latest development. In this pod we talk about the history of these sessions dating back to 2006 and what we know up to this point. Also high-level feelings about the recordings, but a much deeper look into why there is a stark difference between the amount of music the band creates vs how much it releases.
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  • Old 10-14-2018, 06:13 PM   #2
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    How come the YT version is showing blocked?
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    Old 10-14-2018, 06:16 PM   #3
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willndmb View Post
    How come the YT version is showing blocked?
    I played 40 seconds of the Ryley Walker cover of Busted Stuff and it got whacked. Told YT to go ahead and chop out that audio, it says ok working on it, takes hours, only to fail. Good old Google - top notch as always. So now I need to pull my own vid recording, edit, and reupload. Working on it now.
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    Old 10-14-2018, 07:26 PM   #4
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    The podcast is back up.

    Thanks Matt.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:01 AM   #5
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:07 AM   #6
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by read1985 View Post
    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.
    Matt doesn't like Come Tomorrow, Joe does. It's not a neverending negativity, it's two dudes giving their opinions on the sessions and having a conversation about what they like/would prefer.

    I've personally always enjoyed hearing a bunch of different opinions on the band and it can help me see things in a different light.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:30 AM   #7
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by read1985 View Post
    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.
    For every ounce of criticism Matt had (most of it is about CT), Joe countered with positivity. Additionally, Matt was pretty open about how he likes a lot of the songs from the Batson Session. He was mainly positive when discussing them.

    Further, they were clearly debating the whole time, which in my opinion is more interesting than blanket praise. I'm not sure why its not ok to be critical. We now have tracks dating back to 2006 that a lot of people would have preferred to hear on Come Tomorrow over some of the tracks that were put on it. It's natural to be disappointed and upset when you've been following the band for as many years as Matt has.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:34 AM   #8
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Good pod. I’m way more positive on Come Tomorrow but Matt has some points. I do think the Batson Sessions version of Can’t Stop is great and I wish that is the studio cut we had on CT. They should play it that way!
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:35 AM   #9
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    I find myself stationed halfway in between Matt and Joe and I agree with both of them throughout the pod. Easy way to make my commute to work a little better.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Listened this morning and I was glad to hear a lot of the same thoughts I had being discussed. The biggest takeaway from this whole situation is that the fan base is chomping at the bit for music and the releases have been scarce for the last 13 years. The M.O. of this band during that time is work on a song, it’s not good enough, move on, and repeat. I can appreciate not being something you’re not satisfied with, but if the intent to return to the material isn’t there, just release what you have. If they don’t think it is album material, make it an EP or one off release like Eh Hee.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 10:54 AM   #11
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbongreyst View Post
    Listened this morning and I was glad to hear a lot of the same thoughts I had being discussed. The biggest takeaway from this whole situation is that the fan base is chomping at the bit for music and the releases have been scarce for the last 13 years. The M.O. of this band during that time is work on a song, it’s not good enough, move on, and repeat. I can appreciate not being something you’re not satisfied with, but if the intent to return to the material isn’t there, just release what you have. If they don’t think it is album material, make it an EP or one off release like Eh Hee.
    Yeah this was the best point from the whole podcast and I sorta mentioned this in the thread about the Batson Sessions. Holding onto this stuff (ie the finished Sugar Will that is probably out there somewhere) I don't think is the best strategy in today's digital age. Maybe even 10 years ago that would have been a good plan but it's not now. Some of the songs on the 2nd disc wouldn't need too much work to have them good enough for release. I mean if you are ok with releasing That Girl is You on an official release but not some of these?
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    Old 10-15-2018, 12:44 PM   #12
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Is there any way for a direct download? I don't use itunes/apps/phones. I want to listen on my laptop
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:14 PM   #13
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    Is there any way for a direct download? I don't use itunes/apps/phones. I want to listen on my laptop
    You should be able to listen directly from the Ants homepage. It will stream.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:31 PM   #14
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by read1985 View Post
    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.
    It's essentially pointless to try and have a discussion with Matt these days regarding anything to do with CT, and since a huge chunk of these songs appear on CT it was inevitable that this conversation was going to turn negative. But don't judge all their pods based off just this one. They've got plenty of episodes full of more joy and positive things to say.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:44 PM   #15
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cscottrun View Post
    For every ounce of criticism Matt had (most of it is about CT), Joe countered with positivity. Additionally, Matt was pretty open about how he likes a lot of the songs from the Batson Session. He was mainly positive when discussing them.

    Further, they were clearly debating the whole time, which in my opinion is more interesting than blanket praise. I'm not sure why its not ok to be critical. We now have tracks dating back to 2006 that a lot of people would have preferred to hear on Come Tomorrow over some of the tracks that were put on it. It's natural to be disappointed and upset when you've been following the band for as many years as Matt has.
    I've always found Joe to be a very positive interlocutor.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:44 PM   #16
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Matt is right though - CT is garbage.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:53 PM   #17
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

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    Is there any way for a direct download? I don't use itunes/apps/phones. I want to listen on my laptop
    It's on youtube.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:53 PM   #18
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    A few of these points discusses are valid - the fanbase yearns for more music. We love this band and their music!

    These sessions are so rough, which is unfortunate. But the point Matt makes regarding the time between releases, so much material in the vault, is valid. Why wait? Then again, if Dave ends up hating it, then it's his band and his prerogative. Tough.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 01:59 PM   #19
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Yeah, you have to remember that these sessions were right around the time that Dave was over it, and was about to call it quits. There’s a reason they abandoned these sessions, just like there was a reason they abandoned the LWS.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:05 PM   #20
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Matt's right that the Batson Sessions make CT even worse than it was before. Who would have thought that's possible?
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:07 PM   #21
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Also, when they were talking about Weezer randomly recording songs and releasing them, Dave did that with Eh Hee if I remember correctly. But that's all we ever got.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:13 PM   #22
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
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    Matt's right that the Batson Sessions make CT even worse than it was before. Who would have thought that's possible?
    I don’t think it makes the album any better or worse. But I do think it really drives the idea that Come Tomorrow should have been two albums. (One Cavallo, One Batson) I was saying this the whole time, and now that we know just how much Batson material they had, it’s a no brainer.

    2016, Cavallo - All the songs that debuted 2015-2016 plus a couple new songs (She, DYR) and a couple old Cavallo songs (Sugar Will, Loving Wings)

    2018, Batson - Highlights from the Batson Sessions (Shotgun, IOY, Break Free, Come On, Early Home, Drive Me Away, etc) plus a couple new songs (Come Tomorrow, When I’m Weary)
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:18 PM   #23
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Seems like when Dave goes into these various sessions - a few songs do pop out amid all the unfinished ideas. I wish we could get a sessions release, whether it's 4 or 6 or even 3 songs. Call it something like "2019 Sessions EP". That reduces the pressure of trying to get to 10 or 14 songs.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:23 PM   #24
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by read1985 View Post
    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.
    Basing the product off of one show out of 99 is a great way to go about things
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:29 PM   #25
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by read1985 View Post
    This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

    It will be my last podcast.

    This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

    Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.

    This right here. I really enjoyed Come Tomorrow for what it was, and really enjoy these sessions for what they are. I find the peak behind the curtain very entertaining, but am not about to get upset that I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I know the band makes dumb decisions sometimes, but I don't think Come Tomorrow was one of them. It's not a bad album, and it honestly helped me out when I needed it. The sessions show some promising ideas and some of my favorite potential tunes, but hey they could have ended up on a future album. I don't pretend to know what the band is thinking now, and I hope they see the leak as something positive, but I doubt it.

    The thing is, negativity begets more negativity. When we feel entitled to the leak and angry things didn't turn out how we wanted, there's a backlash that I'm sure the band feels. In turn they grow more negative towards the fans.

    It's a vicious cycle that I feel has been going on since TLWS. We want what we can't have and feel entitled to it; then we get it, and it makes us upset that we didn't get what we wanted. Meanwhile, the band feels disrespected by the very people who claim to love them. In turn the band loses faith in it's fans ability to have some grace about what the albums are, and we get mediocre efforts as a result.

    Let me say again, I'm glad to have both CT and TBS. If I want to hear a fully produced Can't Stop, I'll listen to CT. If I want to hear an old school DMB version, I'll listen to the leaked take. It's all apples and oranges to me. The band makes differing versions of the same tunes every night, so why would I consider this situation any different?

    We have a plethora of new music by what many claim here is one of their favorite bands, and at every turn someone who claims to love them bashes them, berates their choices and at the end of the day I can see why Dave is tired. Yes, I'm not defending his choices that are sometimes interesting in what makes a good album versus what doesn't. But I will defend his reaction to OUR choices. I mean do you guys like being in an abusive relationship? I'm sure there's a section of the fanbase he feels this way about at this point. No matter what he does, it isn't good enough, and in the rare instance he thinks it is, we hate on him for it.

    All that being said, I'm not perfect and I jumped at the chance to listen to the leak. I will donate my money to Bama Rags, and honestly we should all try to do something to that effect. We need to let them know we give a damn. Even a kindly response on their FB or Twitter or whatever. Sometimes all it takes is a "we're sorry this got out, but we want you to know that we love it, and we are grateful for all the music you HAVE given us, even if some of it you didn't intend to."

    If we make this leak and album tour a positive one for them, maybe they will regain some confidence in US, and want to put their best foot forward. Of course we are entitled to our opinions and if you thought CT sucked, that is totally fair.

    But the amount of bashing I see here everyday is tiresome, and it just leaks over into the fandom and into the shows. I don't think DMB needed a resurgence, but I sure do think the fandom does. We can be a hostile bunch.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:43 PM   #26
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cscottrun View Post
    For every ounce of criticism Matt had (most of it is about CT), Joe countered with positivity. Additionally, Matt was pretty open about how he likes a lot of the songs from the Batson Session. He was mainly positive when discussing them.

    Further, they were clearly debating the whole time, which in my opinion is more interesting than blanket praise. I'm not sure why its not ok to be critical. We now have tracks dating back to 2006 that a lot of people would have preferred to hear on Come Tomorrow over some of the tracks that were put on it. It's natural to be disappointed and upset when you've been following the band for as many years as Matt has.
    I don't get it either. Maybe the point Matt made was more correct - that we've invested a lot in this band and some feel it would be admitting defeat to critique them.

    You can critique anything. Art is subjective, full stop. There is nothing wrong with critiquing art.

    This mentality that "the band can do no wrong" or "it is wrong to critique DMB" is just ridiculous.

    Go to the #dMbFamily for that nonsense.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:46 PM   #27
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by seanbrutus View Post
    This right here. I really enjoyed Come Tomorrow for what it was, and really enjoy these sessions for what they are. I find the peak behind the curtain very entertaining, but am not about to get upset that I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I know the band makes dumb decisions sometimes, but I don't think Come Tomorrow was one of them. It's not a bad album, and it honestly helped me out when I needed it. The sessions show some promising ideas and some of my favorite potential tunes, but hey they could have ended up on a future album. I don't pretend to know what the band is thinking now, and I hope they see the leak as something positive, but I doubt it.

    The thing is, negativity begets more negativity. When we feel entitled to the leak and angry things didn't turn out how we wanted, there's a backlash that I'm sure the band feels. In turn they grow more negative towards the fans.

    It's a vicious cycle that I feel has been going on since TLWS. We want what we can't have and feel entitled to it; then we get it, and it makes us upset that we didn't get what we wanted. Meanwhile, the band feels disrespected by the very people who claim to love them. In turn the band loses faith in it's fans ability to have some grace about what the albums are, and we get mediocre efforts as a result.

    Let me say again, I'm glad to have both CT and TBS. If I want to hear a fully produced Can't Stop, I'll listen to CT. If I want to hear an old school DMB version, I'll listen to the leaked take. It's all apples and oranges to me. The band makes differing versions of the same tunes every night, so why would I consider this situation any different?

    We have a plethora of new music by what many claim here is one of their favorite bands, and at every turn someone who claims to love them bashes them, berates their choices and at the end of the day I can see why Dave is tired. Yes, I'm not defending his choices that are sometimes interesting in what makes a good album versus what doesn't. But I will defend his reaction to OUR choices. I mean do you guys like being in an abusive relationship? I'm sure there's a section of the fanbase he feels this way about at this point. No matter what he does, it isn't good enough, and in the rare instance he thinks it is, we hate on him for it.

    All that being said, I'm not perfect and I jumped at the chance to listen to the leak. I will donate my money to Bama Rags, and honestly we should all try to do something to that effect. We need to let them know we give a damn. Even a kindly response on their FB or Twitter or whatever. Sometimes all it takes is a "we're sorry this got out, but we want you to know that we love it, and we are grateful for all the music you HAVE given us, even if some of it you didn't intend to."

    If we make this leak and album tour a positive one for them, maybe they will regain some confidence in US, and want to put their best foot forward. Of course we are entitled to our opinions and if you thought CT sucked, that is totally fair.

    But the amount of bashing I see here everyday is tiresome, and it just leaks over into the fandom and into the shows. I don't think DMB needed a resurgence, but I sure do think the fandom does. We can be a hostile bunch.
    Yikes, you need to relax. It's a band and people are discussing their opinions...not to mention that just undermines abusive relationships.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:50 PM   #28
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by karczews41 View Post
    Yikes, you need to relax. It's a band and people are discussing their opinions...not to mention that just undermines abusive relationships.
    You can have your opinions as long as there’s no “bashing”. Negativity not allowed, positive thoughts only.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:54 PM   #29
    Roose13
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

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    Originally Posted by seanbrutus View Post
    This right here. I really enjoyed Come Tomorrow for what it was, and really enjoy these sessions for what they are. I find the peak behind the curtain very entertaining, but am not about to get upset that I didn't get exactly what I wanted. I know the band makes dumb decisions sometimes, but I don't think Come Tomorrow was one of them. It's not a bad album, and it honestly helped me out when I needed it. The sessions show some promising ideas and some of my favorite potential tunes, but hey they could have ended up on a future album. I don't pretend to know what the band is thinking now, and I hope they see the leak as something positive, but I doubt it.

    The thing is, negativity begets more negativity. When we feel entitled to the leak and angry things didn't turn out how we wanted, there's a backlash that I'm sure the band feels. In turn they grow more negative towards the fans.

    It's a vicious cycle that I feel has been going on since TLWS. We want what we can't have and feel entitled to it; then we get it, and it makes us upset that we didn't get what we wanted. Meanwhile, the band feels disrespected by the very people who claim to love them. In turn the band loses faith in it's fans ability to have some grace about what the albums are, and we get mediocre efforts as a result.

    Let me say again, I'm glad to have both CT and TBS. If I want to hear a fully produced Can't Stop, I'll listen to CT. If I want to hear an old school DMB version, I'll listen to the leaked take. It's all apples and oranges to me. The band makes differing versions of the same tunes every night, so why would I consider this situation any different?

    We have a plethora of new music by what many claim here is one of their favorite bands, and at every turn someone who claims to love them bashes them, berates their choices and at the end of the day I can see why Dave is tired. Yes, I'm not defending his choices that are sometimes interesting in what makes a good album versus what doesn't. But I will defend his reaction to OUR choices. I mean do you guys like being in an abusive relationship? I'm sure there's a section of the fanbase he feels this way about at this point. No matter what he does, it isn't good enough, and in the rare instance he thinks it is, we hate on him for it.

    All that being said, I'm not perfect and I jumped at the chance to listen to the leak. I will donate my money to Bama Rags, and honestly we should all try to do something to that effect. We need to let them know we give a damn. Even a kindly response on their FB or Twitter or whatever. Sometimes all it takes is a "we're sorry this got out, but we want you to know that we love it, and we are grateful for all the music you HAVE given us, even if some of it you didn't intend to."

    If we make this leak and album tour a positive one for them, maybe they will regain some confidence in US, and want to put their best foot forward. Of course we are entitled to our opinions and if you thought CT sucked, that is totally fair.

    But the amount of bashing I see here everyday is tiresome, and it just leaks over into the fandom and into the shows. I don't think DMB needed a resurgence, but I sure do think the fandom does. We can be a hostile bunch.
    This is just my opinion, but this comment was mostly negative: negative about the podcast, negative about fans' criticalness on the forum, negative about the current state of the forumn in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Joe and the Matt have done a wonderful job just staying together and talking as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, podcast we were able to hear. Instead the comment left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.
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    Old 10-15-2018, 02:59 PM   #30
    ForkInFork
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    Re: Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    You can have your opinions as long as there’s no “bashing”. Negativity not allowed, positive thoughts only.
    What if I'm positive that something the band did was a fresh turd, does that count as positivity?
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    I'm Hilly and even I think your argument is stupid and flawed.
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