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Old 07-03-2018, 09:50 PM   #1
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Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

It's been a couple weeks since our last podcast, and before you know it DMB has played 10 new shows and a Dave and Tim show.*Too much to go in depth on each one of the shows, but we are now about halfway through the Summer Tour (22 of the 47) so we can make some tour generalizations.*We explain what a song's Tour Rarity is, what it highlights, and brainstorm theories on the 2018 rarity.*Also, a look into the new SiriusXM DMB Radio, and a quick Setlist Game standings review with some surprises.
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  • Old 07-03-2018, 11:16 PM   #2
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    what happens at Club Wasted?
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    Old 07-03-2018, 11:30 PM   #3
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    First rule of Club Wasted . . . .
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    Old 07-04-2018, 01:57 PM   #4
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Letís not forget the great garage tailgate before summerfest.


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    Old 07-05-2018, 12:03 AM   #5
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    At this point this band isn't going to have much more song variety nor be a phish or dead and co and play out the catalog. However to me 2018 seems to have better overall sets than 2016. I am glad the AFTW songs are out because they don't translate well (outside of broken things which doesn't get played).



    Carter will be 61 in november and the entire band in general is getting older so i don't think it's realistic to hope for more songs to be played at this point. The fact we are getting Bowas and You Never Knows and a rando captain that makes this a step up form 16'.


    The thing that is more important to a setlist critic like i can be is the fact that we are getting more variety in some of the jams (saw the new so damn lucky outro from mansfield). The band is more inspired this year than they were the last full band tour in 2016. The reality is most people who go to 5 plus shows probally should reduce their yearly touring down to maybe 2 shows.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 12:58 AM   #6
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Yes, i do watch the setlist, but I'm not a fanatic about it. A below average setlist doesn't equal a bad show. My issue is there are too many staples that simple haven't been played yet. Stone, pig, etc and that's my problem. I know they had a change in band membership but they have had more than enough time to figure those songs out.

    Unless they are just moving in a different direction and don't want to play those songs anymore it's borderline unnaceptable.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 07:59 AM   #7
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monizzle145 View Post
    At this point this band isn't going to have much more song variety nor be a phish or dead and co and play out the catalog. However to me 2018 seems to have better overall sets than 2016. I am glad the AFTW songs are out because they don't translate well (outside of broken things which doesn't get played).



    Carter will be 61 in november and the entire band in general is getting older so i don't think it's realistic to hope for more songs to be played at this point. The fact we are getting Bowas and You Never Knows and a rando captain that makes this a step up form 16'.


    The thing that is more important to a setlist critic like i can be is the fact that we are getting more variety in some of the jams (saw the new so damn lucky outro from mansfield). The band is more inspired this year than they were the last full band tour in 2016. The reality is most people who go to 5 plus shows probally should reduce their yearly touring down to maybe 2 shows.
    Disagree on a number of points here. I think 2016 sets were much better overall. There wasnít that much AFTW. Belly Belly was frequent, but thatís 4 minutes. Other than that, and occasional rooftop, about the same rate as weíve gotten this tour. A few If Onlys and Mercys, but not many.

    I actually see the opposite of variety in a lot of the jams. A piano replacing a violin has obviously changed the sound, but the jams on most of the songs that actually have the room for them are the exact same as theyíve been for years. Typical, Warehouse, and Jimi all have exactly the same jams. They donít experiment on stage or change things up at all. And the jams themselves all pretty much just build into the familiar crescendos of Tim wailing and Rashawn screeching. Itís pretty played out for me at this point. Wish they would try something different.

    But I didnít see the SDL outro youíre referring to, so I will check that out. The sets at my shows so far didnít have the creativity youíre talking about, but maybe I missed it in other places.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 10:07 AM   #8
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by monizzle145 View Post
    At this point this band isn't going to have much more song variety nor be a phish or dead and co and play out the catalog. However to me 2018 seems to have better overall sets than 2016. I am glad the AFTW songs are out because they don't translate well (outside of broken things which doesn't get played).



    Carter will be 61 in november and the entire band in general is getting older so i don't think it's realistic to hope for more songs to be played at this point. The fact we are getting Bowas and You Never Knows and a rando captain that makes this a step up form 16'.


    The thing that is more important to a setlist critic like i can be is the fact that we are getting more variety in some of the jams (saw the new so damn lucky outro from mansfield). The band is more inspired this year than they were the last full band tour in 2016. The reality is most people who go to 5 plus shows probally should reduce their yearly touring down to maybe 2 shows.
    The age of the group is a non factor for me. I don't think you can say its unrealistic to expect them to be more Phish/Dead and co like when Bob Weir is 70 years old and is still singing/jamming to an extensive dead catalog. Same with Mickey and Bill, they are over 70 and still rock out. The fact is Dave is lazy when writing setlists and really doesn't give 2 shits what the fans want, he is going to play whatever he wants. But I guess 25 years of touring will wear you out.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 11:41 AM   #9
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Of all the things that could be limiting this band, I would put Carter Beauford at the very bottom.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 01:29 PM   #10
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
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    Of all the things that could be limiting this band, I would put Carter Beauford at the very bottom.
    Agreed
    Take Two Step for example. People speculate that it isn't played because Carter gets tired and it's hard on him. I can u derstand that to a point but don't think that's the reason.
    No matter how hard it is on him and tires him out, you could play it here and there in particular when they have a few day break.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 03:36 PM   #11
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Matt - you brought up the point that Buddy's introduction to the band isn't (or shouldn't?) be the reason that there is a relative lack in set list variety. However, I just heard on the DMB Sirius channel an interview snippet with Buddy where he says that prior to the tour kicking off he learned about 30 songs and that it's been very hectic for him because each day in rehearsal the band will add another song or two.

    Doesn't this provide evidence that Dave is in fact reducing set list variety to help ease Buddy into the tour?
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    Old 07-05-2018, 03:53 PM   #12
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Thank you for quantifying the quality of the variety in the set lists through the rarity index; the proof is in the numbers. After attending Woodlands & Dallas I could not agree more that my ambition to travel and see this band has greatly diminished. I think the lack of a violin has been a significant contributor. At this point I am questioning keeping CO after shows in WPB. Many thanks to you and Joe for your efforts and really appreciate your insights.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 05:00 PM   #13
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 42graystreet View Post
    Matt - you brought up the point that Buddy's introduction to the band isn't (or shouldn't?) be the reason that there is a relative lack in set list variety. However, I just heard on the DMB Sirius channel an interview snippet with Buddy where he says that prior to the tour kicking off he learned about 30 songs and that it's been very hectic for him because each day in rehearsal the band will add another song or two.

    Doesn't this provide evidence that Dave is in fact reducing set list variety to help ease Buddy into the tour?
    That doesn't make much sense to me. Are they really demanding that exacting level of a performance from him for every note he plays on every song? Can't they just tell him what key the song is in and let the dude figure it out? It's not even like the piano has a defined part in 90% of DMB songs, so what is there for him to mess up?

    I'd personally love to hear them actually jam more on stage and take chances. It would 1000 times better to hear a JTR with some flubs here and there than to hear yet another polished Louisiana Bayou, in my opinion.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 10:06 PM   #14
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 42graystreet View Post
    Matt - you brought up the point that Buddy's introduction to the band isn't (or shouldn't?) be the reason that there is a relative lack in set list variety. However, I just heard on the DMB Sirius channel an interview snippet with Buddy where he says that prior to the tour kicking off he learned about 30 songs and that it's been very hectic for him because each day in rehearsal the band will add another song or two.

    Doesn't this provide evidence that Dave is in fact reducing set list variety to help ease Buddy into the tour?
    See below.


    Quote:
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    That doesn't make much sense to me. Are they really demanding that exacting level of a performance from him for every note he plays on every song? Can't they just tell him what key the song is in and let the dude figure it out? It's not even like the piano has a defined part in 90% of DMB songs, so what is there for him to mess up?

    I'd personally love to hear them actually jam more on stage and take chances. It would 1000 times better to hear a JTR with some flubs here and there than to hear yet another polished Louisiana Bayou, in my opinion.
    DC Greg makes my point, here. What "parts" are they teaching him? There are basically zero DMB songs that have a piano "part" or even rely on one for any sort of main melody. Joe made the point on the podcast that even Boyd's parts are largely being taken over by the (ugh) horn section.

    So, to further push our position of "these guys are professionals," and to DC Greg's point about just giving Buddy the key of the tune and letting him add as he sees fit...I'm not buying the Buddy excuse at all as a reason for the lack of variety. Maybe they like playing together in an intimate setting, amongst themselves, not in front of a crowd. But nothing on stage shows me that they're getting anything out of "practicing more than they ever have." Please.

    Edit: Greg also makes a fantastic point re: an unpolished JTR vs. pitch perfect Bayou. This band no longer takes risks on stage. Good or bad, whether it's fear or lack of desire, if they aren't in the groove on something, they won't play it. Which only adds to the milquetoast.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 10:11 PM   #15
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    See below.




    DC Greg makes my point, here. What "parts" are they teaching him? There are basically zero DMB songs that have a piano "part" or even rely on one for any sort of main melody. Joe made the point on the podcast that even Boyd's parts are largely being taken over by the (ugh) horn section.

    So, to further push our position of "these guys are professionals," and to DC Greg's point about just giving Buddy the key of the tune and letting him add as he sees fit...I'm not buying the Buddy excuse at all as a reason for the lack of variety. Maybe they like playing together in an intimate setting, amongst themselves, not in front of a crowd. But nothing on stage shows me that they're getting anything out of "practicing more than they ever have." Please.

    Edit: Greg also makes a fantastic point re: an unpolished JTR vs. pitch perfect Bayou. This band no longer takes risks on stage. Good or bad, whether it's fear or lack of desire, if they aren't in the groove on something, they won't play it. Which only adds to the milquetoast.

    Buddy's a professional who has played backing keys for Ariana Grande... no doubt that the dude wants to get his parts nailed so that he isn't the dragging weight on the band's sound. I get that most songs don't have defined key parts, but it seems like he's really doing good work on creating good key parts for the songs he's played on. He's probably also trying to find space so that he doesn't absolutely kill certain songs with organ and/or piano. For example, he started playing piano on the DYR chorus with a slight bit of organ rather than just the screeching organ he started with.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 10:13 PM   #16
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
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    Buddy's a professional who has played backing keys for Ariana Grande... no doubt that the dude wants to get his parts nailed so that he isn't the dragging weight on the band's sound. I get that most songs don't have defined key parts, but it seems like he's really doing good work on creating good key parts for the songs he's played on. He's probably also trying to find space so that he doesn't absolutely kill certain songs with organ and/or piano. For example, he started playing piano on the DYR chorus with a slight bit of organ rather than just the screeching organ he started with.
    That's great. Round of applause for Buddy. I don't blame him for the lack of variety, though. And what "parts" is he nailing? If he's jamming, there ain't much to memorize outside of the key of the song. Let him find space. Let him sit back and not force himself. All well and good.

    None of that has anything to do with the lack of variety.
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    Old 07-05-2018, 10:30 PM   #17
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Buddy doesn't have to play on every song, does he? (sorry if already pointed out)
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    Old 07-06-2018, 02:31 PM   #18
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    That's great. Round of applause for Buddy. I don't blame him for the lack of variety, though. And what "parts" is he nailing? If he's jamming, there ain't much to memorize outside of the key of the song. Let him find space. Let him sit back and not force himself. All well and good.

    None of that has anything to do with the lack of variety.
    Well put. I found myself nodding my head vigorously listening to this podcast on the drive home from work the other day

    I have one more show this tour, and yeah of course it's going to be fun no matter what. I don't have a bad time or complain at the shows I go to, but afterwards I can objectively comment on them compared to what I've seen from the band before. I'm not expecting much variety at VA Beach, but if we get just one of the "rarities" that have been played at some of the other stops this tour (YNK, Captain, Rhyme and Reason, something like that), I would be a happy camper.

    In the bigger picture, the way this tour is going right now has me pretty certain I'll be cutting down to 1 show in 2019 if I go at all, instead of the 3-8 I've been doing in recent years. The two main factors in that for me are 1) no violin and 2) setlists.

    As an aside, I'll catch every D&T show that I can. With no violin and trumpet overload, D&T is definitely superior to DMB for me now. Might just make a point to get to Canandaigua next summer and call it a tour.
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    Old 07-06-2018, 05:49 PM   #19
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    Re: Ants Podcast 93: Return to Club Wasted - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    That's great. Round of applause for Buddy. I don't blame him for the lack of variety, though. And what "parts" is he nailing? If he's jamming, there ain't much to memorize outside of the key of the song. Let him find space. Let him sit back and not force himself. All well and good.

    None of that has anything to do with the lack of variety.
    I think the fact that DMB's songs don't have piano parts is too frequently missed on these boards. Look at Griesar's post about how his piano sound got pushed out/became unnecessary once the band developed their songs. I am firmly in the camp that says Buddy should be able, at this point in the tour, to fill on basically any song and if he can't then he doesn't need to play on every song. The "Buddy is new and hasn't learned the songs yet so that's why we don't have more variety" argument may have worked for a few weeks but it does not anymore. They need to kick it into high gear now, or at VERY least take the next big break between Florida and CO, to figure out how to bring back a ton of variety.

    EDIT: this is the line from Griesar I was referring to: "By the time I left the band, David learned how to play rhythm guitar and Boyd had learned all the melodic lines and Carter had learned all the backup harmonies. So all of the three jobs that I had were useless."

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