A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album? - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion

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Old 02-15-2018, 09:02 PM   #1
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A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

I still look back fondly on these in-between album years as some of the best writing that has ever come from this band since the Big 3 (4?). More than ten years later, what have we learned? Where would we be if Stand Up was nothing but the '04 touring songs + what we know as B-Sides today? Or if Big Whiskey made use of the '06 and beyond material?

I've done nothing but speculate this as I groove to my favorites of these selective years while refusing to believe works such as Plastic Girl ever saw the light of day. They certainly heard the crowd roar to Shotgun and Sugar Will - what happened?
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  • Old 02-15-2018, 09:22 PM   #2
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Because they're overrated and boring.
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    Old 02-15-2018, 11:50 PM   #3
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41 View Post
    Because they're overrated and boring.
    tight opinion bro. I think the real answer to this- and to every studio debacle since 1998 of which there have been many, is poor management and vision. I'm referring mostly to Dave. He doesn't lead the band well directionally in the studio and never has. LeRoi called him out on this in 07 after which Dave wrote a letter that was intended to end the band. Dave can't / won't take that role. For their entire career they've had management and producers guiding every step of the way- but now with no vision/conviction in the first place there's nothing left to direct / no value to provide from mgmt's end. re: these 04/06 songs, Dave deferred to Carter's opinion to record with Batson in 05 and did not follow through / commit to a tracklisting. The good ones were swapped out for totally undercooked alternatives that were newer and thus more attractive and exciting to Dave and the band.

    Most songwriters / band leaders will have a vision, think up an album of songs, record them, go to bat for them, put it out and move on. DMB cannot for whatever reason pull this off. There has been repeated, predictable disfunction when it comes to DMB recording studio albums since 98 (even BTCS was a very rocky recording process).

    p.s. also, AFTW was a great example of management/over interested fans stepping in and saying: here's the way to make a good album, bring Lillywhite back in. But the substance was shit so the guidance was useless.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 04:28 AM   #4
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreamingtree_34 View Post
    tight opinion bro. I think the real answer to this- and to every studio debacle since 1998 of which there have been many, is poor management and vision. I'm referring mostly to Dave. He doesn't lead the band well directionally in the studio and never has. LeRoi called him out on this in 07 after which Dave wrote a letter that was intended to end the band. Dave can't / won't take that role. For their entire career they've had management and producers guiding every step of the way- but now with no vision/conviction in the first place there's nothing left to direct / no value to provide from mgmt's end. re: these 04/06 songs, Dave deferred to Carter's opinion to record with Batson in 05 and did not follow through / commit to a tracklisting. The good ones were swapped out for totally undercooked alternatives that were newer and thus more attractive and exciting to Dave and the band.

    Most songwriters / band leaders will have a vision, think up an album of songs, record them, go to bat for them, put it out and move on. DMB cannot for whatever reason pull this off. There has been repeated, predictable disfunction when it comes to DMB recording studio albums since 98 (even BTCS was a very rocky recording process).

    p.s. also, AFTW was a great example of management/over interested fans stepping in and saying: here's the way to make a good album, bring Lillywhite back in. But the substance was shit so the guidance was useless.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think at this point Rashawn should take the lead and make some of the bigger decisions. He already took over from Roi as musical director. Dave's songwriting is spectacular but he needs a strong creative drive to take it to the top.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 04:47 AM   #5
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    I think it is simply the fact that Dave is creatively-minded enough to want to put out, for the most part, new music on a new album. One may not like the output, but I respect the intentions.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 04:54 AM   #6
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Because they were too good, and the band didn't want them showing up the other songs on Stand Up / Big Whiskey / Away From the World.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 05:53 AM   #7
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41 View Post
    Because they're overrated and boring.


    Silly take. If they’re overrated and dumb then what’s the last 10 years been ?
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    Old 02-16-2018, 06:09 AM   #8
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    yeah my opinion of the 04 and 06 songs is that they suck

    however they're better than a lot of the shit that's been on the last three albums
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    Old 02-16-2018, 06:12 AM   #9
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Hello again and joyride were recorded and released. So was cornbread but that’s an 07 song.

    IOY is effing horrendous.

    No idea about the others. But, at least IMO they really would be out of place amongst the other songs if they were on SU, BW, AFTW
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    Old 02-16-2018, 06:14 AM   #10
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dreamingtree_34 View Post
    p.s. also, AFTW was a great example of management/over interested fans stepping in and saying: here's the way to make a good album, bring Lillywhite back in. But the substance was shit so the guidance was useless.
    Except AFTW is a good album, so.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 06:14 AM   #11
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    yeah my opinion of the 04 and 06 songs is that they suck

    however they're better than a lot of the shit that's been on the last three albums
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    Old 02-16-2018, 06:27 AM   #12
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    There were two good 06 songs, Shotgun and Idea of You.

    Now the 04 batch was very strong, but they were also created at a very weird time, this odd turning point where ultimately the band went with Mark Batson. Those songs were never going to work in that environment. I'll always view them as the last remnants of a big three, LWS DMB. Everyday happened and changed a lot fundamentally, they recorded Busted Stuff, and made the 04 songs. I remember thinking it was proof Everyday was going to be an abberation...and then the Batson/Stand Up stuff happened and the band eventually revealed all the infighting that was going on.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 08:56 AM   #13
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slackdoodle View Post
    Except AFTW is a good album, so.
    I agree. I like it.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 09:07 AM   #14
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jaymas9 View Post
    There were two good 06 songs, Shotgun and Idea of You.
    No love for Break Free or KTK?
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    Old 02-16-2018, 09:11 AM   #15
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    There’s great material between 04 and 06, not much if any has been put on an album. Since this happens every so often the band goes into the studio and nothing comes of it, it makes me a little less excited for when they do put out an album
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    Old 02-16-2018, 09:33 AM   #16
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jrkarger View Post
    Hello again and joyride were recorded and released. So was cornbread but that’s an 07 song.

    IOY is effing horrendous.

    No idea about the others. But, at least IMO they really would be out of place amongst the other songs if they were on SU, BW, AFTW
    this is slander and I will not stand for it!
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    Old 02-16-2018, 09:44 AM   #17
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    No love for Break Free or KTK?
    Kill the King's organ was awful and I never thought it used the band very well.

    Break Free is such a stand up song...bettee horns. Bland melody, trite lyrics. Im shocked it gets so much love.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 09:52 AM   #18
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    I still want studio Sugar Will. And a proper release of Sweet Up & Down.

    I have a lot of wishes.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 10:03 AM   #19
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastStop123 View Post
    this is slander and I will not stand for it!
    I've always been an Idea of You fan, but as of recent I've realized it's solely for the music and the chorus. The lyrics in the verses are absolutely terrible. I tend to give Dave a break on a lot of his writing, but come on, you've had 12 years to write lyrics to a song you continue to play and this is the best you can come up with?

    I stumble, fall in
    front of you and all your cool friends
    you pick me you brush me off I grin
    but all I wanna do is disappear
    one day when you fall for me girl
    and I know that day's gonna come
    I'm not gonna brush you off you know
    and I'm not gonna kick you in your shin

    2006
    Break Free - only good for the jam at the end.
    Kill the King - Love it, and have no idea why this one gets so much hate.
    Shotgun - The guitar riff is cool, but overall it's one of the most overrated songs in the catalog.
    Can't Stop - I've always found it to be harmless enough, and fairly enjoyable, but it's pretty forgettable. Some great Tim solos on this one.
    Sister - Beautiful song that just got played too much. Great as a Dave solo.

    2004
    Sugar Will - 04 versions are great. Nothing to the lyrics, but the music was great and roi shined every time. The newer versions have better set lyrics, and I'll take it at a show, but I'm not a fan of the direction they went with it.
    Crazy Easy - This one never really got me going, but I'll admit, I liked the flow of it in 2013. The lyrics became very rhythmical and the song just seemed to have some more life to it.
    Joyride - Loved it in 2004, but find it hard to listen back to it without any set lyrics. It really was just Dave uttering nonsense for 4 minutes + a few YEAAAAH's to get the crowd going. The lyrics he wrote, and the recording on from the Stand Up sessions are below par.
    Hello Again - Killer tune that should be played more, but it was butchered in the studio. Is there somethign worse than butchered? Because if so then that's a beter description.
    Good Good Time - Great little summer night drive jam. Loved the lyrics in 2014, but preferred the music of 2004.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #20
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastStop123 View Post
    this is slander and I will not stand for it!
    I stand by it. The song was terrible when it debuted and is terrible now IMO.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 11:04 AM   #21
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    I wish that we could have gotten an album like this in the mid 2000s:

    Hello Again
    Joyride
    Break Free
    Kill the King
    Crazy Easy
    Can't Stop
    Idea of You
    Sugar Will
    Good Good Time
    Sister
    Shotgun
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    Old 02-16-2018, 11:12 AM   #22
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Sugar Will and Crazy Easy are two of my favorite songs, hands down. The rest of the 04 songs are good too, but SW and C-E are fantastic
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    Old 02-16-2018, 11:14 AM   #23
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinTH View Post
    I've always been an Idea of You fan, but as of recent I've realized it's solely for the music and the chorus. The lyrics in the verses are absolutely terrible. I tend to give Dave a break on a lot of his writing, but come on, you've had 12 years to write lyrics to a song you continue to play and this is the best you can come up with?

    I stumble, fall in
    front of you and all your cool friends
    you pick me you brush me off I grin
    but all I wanna do is disappear
    one day when you fall for me girl
    and I know that day's gonna come
    I'm not gonna brush you off you know
    and I'm not gonna kick you in your shin
    It's incredibly sweet and written from the perspective of a young boy infatuated with his babysitter.

    I know what the almanac has but I don't believe it's "fall in" - fall in to what? A well? A puddle? It's fallin', he's literally stumbled and fallen in front of the older girl he has a yuge crush on hanging with her friends. He's embarrassed he fell and wants to get the heck out of there. At his age, kicking someone in their shins is a playful sign of affection and anything that makes you look silly is uber-mortifying.

    "At least I got to pull your hair" (another sign of affection for a young boy)

    I've always found that verse and the final verse very moving.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #24
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    I really wished they had released them, if only to have locked in the lyrics when Dave was still gifted in that department.

    Compare the newer versions of any of the 04 songs to their original lyrics. Night and day. To the point where I don't really want to hear them anymore because its mostly Dave mumbling through lyrics that don't make any cohesive sense.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 12:19 PM   #25
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Good Good Time is overrated and boring. But the rest of the 04 songs are great.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 12:40 PM   #26
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    Good Good Time is overrated and boring. But the rest of the 04 songs are great.

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    Old 02-16-2018, 01:07 PM   #27
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stlbluespower View Post
    I think it is simply the fact that Dave is creatively-minded enough to want to put out, for the most part, new music on a new album. One may not like the output, but I respect the intentions.
    I don't think it's particularly creative to abandon works for new ones, coming from personal experience in writing. But, I respect whatever Dave's output is. Sometimes you have to get away from stuff to make something you want to make.
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    Old 02-16-2018, 01:11 PM   #28
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    Good Good Time is overrated and boring. But the rest of the 04 songs are great.
    oh no you didnt
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    Old 02-16-2018, 02:29 PM   #29
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    this album would be a winner:
    a dream so real
    crazy easy
    eh hee
    idea of you
    good good time
    loving wings
    #27
    shotgun
    break free
    kill the king
    sugar will
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    Old 02-16-2018, 02:45 PM   #30
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    Re: A decade later - why didn't the '04 and '06 songs make an album?

    the 04 songs are terrific

    the 06 songs are... well I like Shotgun a lot
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