Close-up: THE LAST STOP - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 01-20-2022, 11:00 AM   #1
Xcacel
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Close-up: THE LAST STOP

Close-Up: a closer look on some DMB-related stuff.

Following what I did for 'Sweet' and 'What You Are', I want now to go a bit deeper for 'The Last Stop'.
I won’t discuss too much which version is better than another (I’ve found at least a dozen similar threads here), instead I will try to focus more on some less knows stuff and the meaning of this – extremely powerful – tune.


----------------------------------

The Last Stop, is probably, one of the most desired songs in the whole DMB catalog. Its sound has been defined as “urgent” and “mysterious”, and for the fanbase, it was not played enough, during all these years.


Some Numbers:
https://images2.imgbox.com/a0/c4/N2KRpVVE_o.png

Watching the data above, taken from the Almanac, the Last Stop desire has some justification: the song was fully played only 119 times, since his debut on 4.18.98 (Victory Stadium, Roanoke, VA). Those 119 plays correspond to a rarity index of 6% (in other words, The Last Stop was played at 6 percent of the shows that took place from 4.18.98). To have some comparison, DDTW has a rarity index of 46% (it was played at almost half of the shows from its debut), whereas, on the other hand, Spoon is even lower (3%).

See here for a complete list of all the appearances
https://www.antsmarching.org/tour/Vi....php?SongID=59

So, this tune was definitely not played enough through the years, but fortunately it came back on mild rotation with DMB 4.0 (with Buddy), and also it closed the recent 2021 tour, in MSG (“the last stop” of the tour, indeed).


Song Facts:
• The song was written by Dave and Fonz. It is one of the two Dave/Fonz songs on BTCS, the other one is 'Dreaming Tree'.
• Before getting its final name, the song was named in studio “Egyptian”, and then “Black and White”, from the line “This black and white lie” (we’ll focus on the meaning later).
• Regarding the middle eastern sound of The Last Stop, Dave tells:

Quote:
"I have been moving towards this type of music because the sounds of their scales tend to be more desperate in nature. Eastern prayer, for example, allows for a certain level of loose improvisation, which can be very overwhelming. Combined with a certain element - maybe because it is somewhat foreign - that ultimately makes the music inherently holy. Almost as if the scales themselves hit you right in the center of your soul."
Dave was listening to a lot of music from Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, a master of the sacred Pakistani qawwali music. He had discovered him on a Peter Gabriel album (Passion) and also in his collaborations with Pearl Jam (Dead Man Walking Soundtrack).
He tried to reproduce the particular way of singing of this artist, mostly at the beginning of the track, but he admitted that they had totally different tunes, and that he couldn't reach all the scale of Nusrat.
But still, they wanted to make something different out of this tune:
Quote:
"So, I thought, to turn something like that into a rock song, with a heavy Zeppelinesque style, would be quite a challenge. Musically, the song has a much simpler guitar sound than some of our other songs, almost like a stereotyped movie soundtrack. We wanted to make it rock, but we also wanted to make it serene".
(see following links for the whole article).




Song Meaning:

The central theme of the song is clear. It is meant to speak out against war and violence in general.
Dave is not speaking, or making a statement, he is literally shouting to the world (I find here some similarities with 'What You Are', even if the subject is different).

Dave said:
Quote:
"I am yelling, aren't I? It's really not at myself, but maybe it should be. I find it a little frustrating that maybe because it's been so long since there's been a really devastating war that we are all so headstrong, and it just scares me.

While Minarets was written during the first Gulf was, back in the early 90es, in 1998 the situation in Middle East is rapidly mutating. In Iraq, the search for suspected weapons were the pretext for crises between 1997 and 1998, culminating in intensive missile strikes at the end of 1998. Violence was rising also in Israel, with the assassination of Prime Minister Rabin (1995). Dave cannot accept the idea that any war can be fought in the name of a god:
Quote:
"I know growing up in South Africa how quickly hatred can turn to blind violence on all levels, but the way the media all over the world -- I don't want to just indict the powers that be in America, because certainly they're not alone in stupid behavior, so I'm not at all saying that Saddam Hussein is not bananafish, but I mean, hey, we put him there, but I'm getting off track -- but I find the eagerness to go to... the willingness of the media, or at the least the popular voice, the prevailing voice, the louded voice, the willingness to want to go to war. I just don't think it always ends up as you want it to.... It's frightening to me when people say, 'We're not gonna stand for it.' I don't like strong language when there's guns to back it up."
Quote:
(Allstar Magazine - April 10th, 1998).
Let’s have a look at the lyrics, with a screen shot from the original album liner::
https://images2.imgbox.com/83/6f/2iHlFcwh_o.png

[COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Fire
The sun is well asleep
Moon is high above
Fire grows from the east[
/COLOR]

As first thing, the song catapult the audience in the east war. “Fire”... the “Fire Fire grows from the east”. The feeling here is urgent and immediate, and it is totally different from what was in Minarets, where the audience was watching the new conflict from their couches, just like they were watching any other TV show (“The TV´s on, to me this explains it Wearing a tie like daddy speaks it”).
Here Dave bring us in the middle of the night-shootings, and immediately asks the big question:

How is this
Hate so deep
Lead us all so blindly killing killing
Fools we are
If hate's the gate to peace
This is the last stop
For raining tears


Dave’s songwriting here is just perfect. He use the first person “we”, “not them”. “We” is not Americans or Palestinians or Iraquis. "We", is all of us.
And no matter in which god we believe in.

War
The only way to Peace
I don't fall for that
Raining tears


Somebody noticed as the references to religion and Jesus in this line. However, this is probably used only to back up the main point, which is showing how much people try to justify war with ideas such as the only possible solution. “The only way to Peace”. How many time have we heard that?

The two times he repeat “Raining tears”, such a vivid and hurtful image.
The frustration inside Dave is growing, he is desperately angry, and he is literally screaming that:

You're righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
Raining tears


Dave is trying to say here is that in any conflict we tend to think that we are always right. Like in Palestina, for example. The "chosen ones" reminds a lot of muslim extremists, but not only.
Here, for example, I can see a reference to the government, never willing to admit a possibility of being wrong. So, in this case, the “chosen one” can refer also to US presumption, with the fake believe that their military intervention is the problem solver.

Oh no
Gracious even God
Bloodied the cross
Your sins are washed enough
Mother's cry
"Is hate so deep
Must a baby's bones
This hungry fire feed?"
As smoke clouds roll in
The symphony of death
This is the last stop


One of the strongest verses, so powerful and well written. And, like the best things that Dave has written, it can be interpreted in more than a single way.
In the first part Dave maybe refers to the bible, when Mother Mary cries under the cross of Jesus, complaining with God. But with second part, he rapidly reconnects to crude reality, with kids embracing weapons, dragged by hatred and revenge.
When Dave says “this is the last stop”, he means that we reached the bottom. Not only a dead end, or a way to realize where we ended with all this violence. But it also also the lowest point of humanity, where wars are fought with baby soldiers.

Scream
Right is wrong now
Shut up you big lie
This black and white lie
You comb your hair to hide
Your lying eyes
You're righteous, so righteous
You're always so right
But why your lie
Go ahead and dream
Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
This is the last stop


Dave refers to the black and white lie, meaning how it is wrong to assume that one is totally right and the other one is totally wrong.
Dave explains that:
Quote:
“The hook of the song 'Black And White' is somewhat of the idea behind it as well. Life is really a lot more complicated than simply seeing it as black and white. I personally think it is dangerous to easily dismiss [societies] as bad, yet this type of bigotry slowly creeps into our culture. Ultimately, we tend to judge others based on the way we view the leaders that represent them. As a result, we are teaching each other how to hate. It is this type of stereotype that gets ingrained within our society in a self-perpetuating cycle."
I think Dave really got the point here, and this insane mechanism is still going on and on. You can still find plenty of examples of religious wars, racial conflicts, and we are always forced to believe that we are in the right side, and the other are the bad ones. Think about it. And this is everywhere. Even when we go to the cinema to watch Avengers, it is immediately clear the others (villains) are evil, no further explanation is necessary.

Here there's more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white
You're righteous
You're righteous
You're righteous
You're always so right
There you are nailing a good tree
Then say forgive me, forgive me
Why
Raining tears
This is the last stop
Here there is more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white


The line “There you are nailing a good tree / Then say forgive me, forgive me” is one of the most cryptic ones.
There might be some other reference to the bible, again (the hypocrites that murdered Jesus, then begging forgiveness), and actually, in some live versions (i.e.Chicago), Dave slightly changes the lyrics in an even more powerful way “your nailing god to a tree and then saying forgive me" (obviously the tree is the cross).
But, in a more general interpretation, Dave is probably trying to say that fighting wars and all the killing cannot be reconiciled through a simple “forgive me”, and then the damage will remain forever.

Then, surprisingly, something change, right in the last verse :

Here there is more than is showing up
Hope that we can break it down
It's not so black and white


Like a rainbow after a storm, Dave still finds hopes, and even more than the lyrics, the melody changes completely, following that message (“serene” is the word that Dave used), and bringing us to the long peaceful outro.
The alternate lyrics of the live versions have also this optimist vision:

Chicago 12.19.98
“Oh, no, it's always passing
this bad days will subside now
don't worry 'bout all of it tonight
the weight of the world should rest on my
come on out and fly
come on out and fly“


The Gorge 8.8.2003
Come in from the cold for a while
everything will be alright
leave your troubles at the door outside
it's alright, it's alright
it's alright, it's alright
it's alright, it's alright
it's all alright


Curiously, the final part of the outro, with Béla, is also included, in form of an hidden track also in the album, after “Spoon”:
“Come in from the cold for a while
Everything will be alright
Come in from the noise for a time
Everything will be alright
Everything will be alright
For now goodbye....friend...goodbye”


So, there is still hope, at the end.


Guests
Since the song has seen Béla participation in the album, one may wonder how many Béla appearances have been on Last Stop.

The answer is, only 9 times. Eight in 1998 (mostly in the fall tour, between 11.20 and 12.8), and once in 1999. Two of them appear in an official recording: of course 12.8 Worcester (LT1) and also 11.30, Philadelphia (DMBLive vol.26).

Here the complete list:
http://dmbalmanac.com/SongStats.aspx?sid=60&gid=9


Apart from Béla, Last Stop has seen only three other guests during the years:
• Bill Summers in the legendary 8.23.98 gig (Nissan Pavilion at Stone Ridge Bristow, VA).
• Hamilton de Holanda @ the Gorge 2018 (9.01.2018), which I recommend, and has a Sirius XM stream.
• Ben “the sax guy” Golder-Novick at MSG, last November.

In addition, there are only two Dave & Tim performances:
3.3.1999 at J. T. Kingsbury Hall, Salt Lake City, UT (released as part of the DMBlive series in 2014).
3.3.1999 at Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, CA (released as Live Trax Vol. 41 in 2017.


Best Live Versions
The debates have been endless, during the years, on these boards.
I am just limiting to show the results of the two polls created, together with some meaningful quotes left by other Ants.

https://images2.imgbox.com/0e/c7/jhLkG8jZ_o.jpg


Now, I would like to know your opinion about this great, powerful, and incredibly written tune.

Last edited by Xcacel; 01-20-2022 at 11:04 AM.
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  • Old 01-20-2022, 11:47 AM   #2
    Typical_Ant
     
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xcacel View Post
    Close-Up: a closer look on some DMB-related stuff.

    Following what I did for 'Sweet' and 'What You Are', I want now to go a bit deeper for 'The Last Stop'.
    I won’t discuss too much which version is better than another (I’ve found at least a dozen similar threads here), instead I will try to focus more on some less knows stuff and the meaning of this – extremely powerful – tune.


    ----------------------------------

    The Last Stop, is probably, one of the most desired songs in the whole DMB catalog. Its sound has been defined as “urgent” and “mysterious”, and for the fanbase, it was not played enough, during all these years.


    Some Numbers:
    https://images2.imgbox.com/a0/c4/N2KRpVVE_o.png

    Watching the data above, taken from the Almanac, the Last Stop desire has some justification: the song was fully played only 119 times, since his debut on 4.18.98 (Victory Stadium, Roanoke, VA). Those 119 plays correspond to a rarity index of 6% (in other words, The Last Stop was played at 6 percent of the shows that took place from 4.18.98). To have some comparison, DDTW has a rarity index of 46% (it was played at almost half of the shows from its debut), whereas, on the other hand, Spoon is even lower (3%).

    See here for a complete list of all the appearances
    https://www.antsmarching.org/tour/Vi....php?SongID=59

    So, this tune was definitely not played enough through the years, but fortunately it came back on mild rotation with DMB 4.0 (with Buddy), and also it closed the recent 2021 tour, in MSG (“the last stop” of the tour, indeed).


    Song Facts:
    • The song was written by Dave and Fonz. It is one of the two Dave/Fonz songs on BTCS, the other one is 'Dreaming Tree'.
    • Before getting its final name, the song was named in studio “Egyptian”, and then “Black and White”, from the line “This black and white lie” (we’ll focus on the meaning later).
    • Regarding the middle eastern sound of The Last Stop, Dave tells:


    Dave was listening to a lot of music from Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, a master of the sacred Pakistani qawwali music. He had discovered him on a Peter Gabriel album (Passion) and also in his collaborations with Pearl Jam (Dead Man Walking Soundtrack).
    He tried to reproduce the particular way of singing of this artist, mostly at the beginning of the track, but he admitted that they had totally different tunes, and that he couldn't reach all the scale of Nusrat.
    But still, they wanted to make something different out of this tune:

    (see following links for the whole article).




    Song Meaning:

    The central theme of the song is clear. It is meant to speak out against war and violence in general.
    Dave is not speaking, or making a statement, he is literally shouting to the world (I find here some similarities with 'What You Are', even if the subject is different).

    Dave said:

    While Minarets was written during the first Gulf was, back in the early 90es, in 1998 the situation in Middle East is rapidly mutating. In Iraq, the search for suspected weapons were the pretext for crises between 1997 and 1998, culminating in intensive missile strikes at the end of 1998. Violence was rising also in Israel, with the assassination of Prime Minister Rabin (1995). Dave cannot accept the idea that any war can be fought in the name of a god:


    Let’s have a look at the lyrics, with a screen shot from the original album liner::
    https://images2.imgbox.com/83/6f/2iHlFcwh_o.png

    [COLOR="DarkSlateGray"]Fire
    The sun is well asleep
    Moon is high above
    Fire grows from the east[
    /COLOR]

    As first thing, the song catapult the audience in the east war. “Fire”... the “Fire Fire grows from the east”. The feeling here is urgent and immediate, and it is totally different from what was in Minarets, where the audience was watching the new conflict from their couches, just like they were watching any other TV show (“The TV´s on, to me this explains it Wearing a tie like daddy speaks it”).
    Here Dave bring us in the middle of the night-shootings, and immediately asks the big question:

    How is this
    Hate so deep
    Lead us all so blindly killing killing
    Fools we are
    If hate's the gate to peace
    This is the last stop
    For raining tears


    Dave’s songwriting here is just perfect. He use the first person “we”, “not them”. “We” is not Americans or Palestinians or Iraquis. "We", is all of us.
    And no matter in which god we believe in.

    War
    The only way to Peace
    I don't fall for that
    Raining tears


    Somebody noticed as the references to religion and Jesus in this line. However, this is probably used only to back up the main point, which is showing how much people try to justify war with ideas such as the only possible solution. “The only way to Peace”. How many time have we heard that?

    The two times he repeat “Raining tears”, such a vivid and hurtful image.
    The frustration inside Dave is growing, he is desperately angry, and he is literally screaming that:

    You're righteous, so righteous
    You're always so right
    Go ahead and dream
    Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
    Raining tears


    Dave is trying to say here is that in any conflict we tend to think that we are always right. Like in Palestina, for example. The "chosen ones" reminds a lot of muslim extremists, but not only.
    Here, for example, I can see a reference to the government, never willing to admit a possibility of being wrong. So, in this case, the “chosen one” can refer also to US presumption, with the fake believe that their military intervention is the problem solver.

    Oh no
    Gracious even God
    Bloodied the cross
    Your sins are washed enough
    Mother's cry
    "Is hate so deep
    Must a baby's bones
    This hungry fire feed?"
    As smoke clouds roll in
    The symphony of death
    This is the last stop


    One of the strongest verses, so powerful and well written. And, like the best things that Dave has written, it can be interpreted in more than a single way.
    In the first part Dave maybe refers to the bible, when Mother Mary cries under the cross of Jesus, complaining with God. But with second part, he rapidly reconnects to crude reality, with kids embracing weapons, dragged by hatred and revenge.
    When Dave says “this is the last stop”, he means that we reached the bottom. Not only a dead end, or a way to realize where we ended with all this violence. But it also also the lowest point of humanity, where wars are fought with baby soldiers.

    Scream
    Right is wrong now
    Shut up you big lie
    This black and white lie
    You comb your hair to hide
    Your lying eyes
    You're righteous, so righteous
    You're always so right
    But why your lie
    Go ahead and dream
    Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
    This is the last stop


    Dave refers to the black and white lie, meaning how it is wrong to assume that one is totally right and the other one is totally wrong.
    Dave explains that:

    I think Dave really got the point here, and this insane mechanism is still going on and on. You can still find plenty of examples of religious wars, racial conflicts, and we are always forced to believe that we are in the right side, and the other are the bad ones. Think about it. And this is everywhere. Even when we go to the cinema to watch Avengers, it is immediately clear the others (villains) are evil, no further explanation is necessary.

    Here there's more than is showing up
    Hope that we can break it down
    It's not so black and white
    You're righteous
    You're righteous
    You're righteous
    You're always so right
    There you are nailing a good tree
    Then say forgive me, forgive me
    Why
    Raining tears
    This is the last stop
    Here there is more than is showing up
    Hope that we can break it down
    It's not so black and white


    The line “There you are nailing a good tree / Then say forgive me, forgive me” is one of the most cryptic ones.
    There might be some other reference to the bible, again (the hypocrites that murdered Jesus, then begging forgiveness), and actually, in some live versions (i.e.Chicago), Dave slightly changes the lyrics in an even more powerful way “your nailing god to a tree and then saying forgive me" (obviously the tree is the cross).
    But, in a more general interpretation, Dave is probably trying to say that fighting wars and all the killing cannot be reconiciled through a simple “forgive me”, and then the damage will remain forever.

    Then, surprisingly, something change, right in the last verse :

    Here there is more than is showing up
    Hope that we can break it down
    It's not so black and white


    Like a rainbow after a storm, Dave still finds hopes, and even more than the lyrics, the melody changes completely, following that message (“serene” is the word that Dave used), and bringing us to the long peaceful outro.
    The alternate lyrics of the live versions have also this optimist vision:

    Chicago 12.19.98
    “Oh, no, it's always passing
    this bad days will subside now
    don't worry 'bout all of it tonight
    the weight of the world should rest on my
    come on out and fly
    come on out and fly“


    The Gorge 8.8.2003
    Come in from the cold for a while
    everything will be alright
    leave your troubles at the door outside
    it's alright, it's alright
    it's alright, it's alright
    it's alright, it's alright
    it's all alright


    Curiously, the final part of the outro, with Béla, is also included, in form of an hidden track also in the album, after “Spoon”:
    “Come in from the cold for a while
    Everything will be alright
    Come in from the noise for a time
    Everything will be alright
    Everything will be alright
    For now goodbye....friend...goodbye”


    So, there is still hope, at the end.


    Guests
    Since the song has seen Béla participation in the album, one may wonder how many Béla appearances have been on Last Stop.

    The answer is, only 9 times. Eight in 1998 (mostly in the fall tour, between 11.20 and 12.8), and once in 1999. Two of them appear in an official recording: of course 12.8 Worcester (LT1) and also 11.30, Philadelphia (DMBLive vol.26).

    Here the complete list:
    http://dmbalmanac.com/SongStats.aspx?sid=60&gid=9


    Apart from Béla, Last Stop has seen only three other guests during the years:
    • Bill Summers in the legendary 8.23.98 gig (Nissan Pavilion at Stone Ridge Bristow, VA).
    • Hamilton de Holanda @ the Gorge 2018 (9.01.2018), which I recommend, and has a Sirius XM stream.
    • Ben “the sax guy” Golder-Novick at MSG, last November.

    In addition, there are only two Dave & Tim performances:
    3.3.1999 at J. T. Kingsbury Hall, Salt Lake City, UT (released as part of the DMBlive series in 2014).
    3.3.1999 at Berkeley Community Theater, Berkeley, CA (released as Live Trax Vol. 41 in 2017.


    Best Live Versions
    The debates have been endless, during the years, on these boards.
    I am just limiting to show the results of the two polls created, together with some meaningful quotes left by other Ants.

    https://images2.imgbox.com/0e/c7/jhLkG8jZ_o.jpg


    Now, I would like to know your opinion about this great, powerful, and incredibly written tune.
    Well this is fascinating! Thank you for your detailed write up.

    Last Stop is an interesting one. It's not an everyday listen for me. I find it to be tedious at times however quite complex in structure and lyrics. This isn't to say I don't like it. It's just not a song I wake up going, I want to hear Last Stop today!

    I was lucky enough to hear the 2018 version with Hamilton in person. After a long haul as DMB fan, I never thought I would! I think it was the last version with the outro unless I'm mistaken? Anyways they really jammed it out. One of the coolest surprising guest spots I've witnessed.

    I think it's strange Bela hasn't joined for it since 1999, though he really hasn't been with DMB all that much since then I suppose. You'd think they would bust it out for him though.

    I love that it's a Dave/Fonz combo and wish the two of them would combine forces more often. Fonz seems to have great riffs, unfinished ideas that Dave builds on. Fonz is certainly not a songwriter by any means.

    I think the outro of this song is one of my favorite pieces of music by any band/artist ever. It's such a beautiful twist of events from the main song. All that tension and anger resolving into beauty. That in the midst of ALL this hate, turmoil, we can find a place that will be ok. And at times of darkness in my past I felt Dave sing those words right to me. Tears well up thinking about it. Pure comfort from a stranger. It's the power of music!

    I do wish it was played more often. Though the truncated version doesn't do it for me. I don't need to "check" it off as seen. I would want the full thing had I not seen it yet.

    I also love that it's more or less part of this middle eastern string of songs beginning with Minarets, Last Stop, Squirm and now MadMans Eyes. They all touch on very different ideas, but kind of have this running underlying mysterious theme.

    It's definitely the type of lyrics I wish Dave would write more of. Less direct, more is meant to be deciphered from the listener. It could be about a variety of subjects revolving around war, politics, media, religion.

    I think the "Nailing God to a tree and then saying Forgive me" is the biggest question mark of all. Growing up religious, it's been a curious thought as to how humanity always kills their savior in order for the prophecy to come true and then begs forgiveness and makes a complete 180 so they can get everlasting life.

    I cannot pick a favorite version. I loved that 2018 one because I was there. But it certainly is missing the key components of Boyd and Roi. Dave and Tim have a couple great versions from 1999 that I like. I think one is on LT 41? The studio version is perfect. One of a handful of studio songs that is better than the live version. And it's in the perfect spot on the album.

    Last edited by Typical_Ant; 01-20-2022 at 11:51 AM.
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    Old 01-20-2022, 11:58 AM   #3
    Typical_Ant
     
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    One more thought on the religious aspect of it. Dave is a humanist, likely atheist, but admitted agnostic at best in many interviews. Many non-religious, and of course still some religious people, see it as a root cause for deep division in the world. That you belong to this community of likeminded believers in the greater good, and a being you worship under the premise of love. Yet it's okay to HATE those that disagree with you, that think differently than you. That the very nature of your religious belief is to convert people to thinking your way. You give them a chance and if they don't come around, you cast them out. They are no longer part of your club. They are the enemy.

    I think most religions become this whether they intend to or not. Any group working towards a common goal is eventually going to create groups that disagree with them and become enemies.

    So add that turmoil into the Middle East conflict, which the tone of the song implies, and it shows Dave's view on believing in God I think. So many other lyrics like Bartender, Timebomb, Raven, discuss this inner turmoil, wrestling match he has with God or himself. Maybe guilt for not believing due to his Quaker background. Maybe he wants to believe in a God, but can't see how. Plus you mix in the tragedy in his life and you can see the anger/demons he was going through during his younger years.

    Dreamed I killed God, then I woke up... What a crazy song. Playing that live is intense!

    What an outlet for it!

    Last edited by Typical_Ant; 01-20-2022 at 12:01 PM.
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    Old 01-20-2022, 01:43 PM   #4
    Speilmen230
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    For my money, it's the best song in the catalogue. LiC is my favorite live recording of the song, and is right there as potentially their best single live performance ever of any song.

    Great writeup for an all timer of a song!
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    Old 01-20-2022, 01:56 PM   #5
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Also to add to the discuss on "Here we are nailing God/good to a tree and we're saying forgive me."

    I think this is most obviously a bible reference to Jesus being nailed to the cross. He is pointing out the inherent flaw in humans of us killing the person who was sent by God to save us. It harkens back to the paradox that war is the only way to peace. Murdering the savior is the only way to true forgiveness.

    At least that is my half-baked .02
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    It's not called the Great Depression because it was an awesome fucking time.
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    Old 01-20-2022, 07:05 PM   #6
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Awesome write-up.... well worth the read! Thanks for this!
    My favorite version is LiC as well. I've been attendance for the Live at Wrigley version and Live Trax 44 Gorge '16 but probably my personal favorite would be the Deer Creek '16 version: https://youtu.be/qUoGgWk8GBU
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    Old 01-20-2022, 07:38 PM   #7
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Is there a better timed crescendo and pop than in that LiC version? Seems like the gold standard, at least as far as that paired with sound quality.
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    Old 01-20-2022, 07:46 PM   #8
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Nope. https://youtu.be/nH85TOlkDLI
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    Old 01-20-2022, 09:54 PM   #9
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    NUFD, this is the best review of all time. End of discussion. No other words need to be said. No other opinion can be as great as the first author. Might as well lock the thread
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    Old 01-20-2022, 10:42 PM   #10
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Route_2 View Post
    Is there a better timed crescendo and pop than in that LiC version? Seems like the gold standard, at least as far as that paired with sound quality.

    whats so impressive about LIC? i've heard plenty of last stops with better transitions
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    Old 01-21-2022, 08:04 AM   #11
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    "If he is not who he says he is then he is not a good man, he is a dangerous misguided fanatic.

    Jesus, more than any other figure, more than any other religious founder, compels us to make a choice."

    I wonder what you make of these lines?
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    Old 01-21-2022, 10:51 AM   #12
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spoot388 View Post
    whats so impressive about LIC? i've heard plenty of last stops with better transitions
    Which ones?
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    Old 01-21-2022, 11:05 AM   #13
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    It isnt LT1, I'll tell you that much right now. I know everyone loves that version because of Bela, but it is kinda sloppy. I also know that LiC was touched up, but that's more Boyd overdubs than anything.

    The transition in LiC from 6:40 to 7:50 is bliss.
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    Old 01-21-2022, 11:55 AM   #14
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    There might be a few diamonds in the rough that I haven't heard that transition better, would love to get the dates. But, then, how are the tapes as far as quality?
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    Old 01-21-2022, 07:25 PM   #15
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Route_2 View Post
    Which ones?
    BOWA bonus disk, to start. transitions right when dave comes down from his scatting. scranton 06 has cleaner drum and horn transition. the 2010 versions have more of a buildup and release.
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    Old 01-21-2022, 09:09 PM   #16
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Fantastic write up. Very insightful. My favorite dmb song I was fortunate to hear it at my first show although I didn’t truly appreciate what I was getting. I heard it once again in Winter 2010 but for whatever reason I wasn’t feeling it that night. I had no idea it would take another 11 years to hear it again and unfortunately it was truncated.

    I will say nothing compares to the transition to the outro in the live setting. That to me is the ultimate DMB concert moment. I think it’s also worth noting, that outro was never the same after fall 98. There’s just something about the dissonance they were able to build up and release in unison. I think their inability to nail that part is why it’s so rarely played. And also why they skip it all together since 2019. Listen to 7.5.03 which was released by Sirius last year, the transition is completely botched.

    I credit this song for launching my full fandom at my first show. I remember distinctly being blow away during the outro. In a way that moment changed my life.
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    Old 01-21-2022, 10:38 PM   #17
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spoot388 View Post
    BOWA bonus disk, to start. transitions right when dave comes down from his scatting. scranton 06 has cleaner drum and horn transition. the 2010 versions have more of a buildup and release.
    Cool, thanks. Will revisit those to compare.
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    Old 01-21-2022, 10:46 PM   #18
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patsfan39 View Post
    I credit this song for launching my full fandom at my first show. I remember distinctly being blow away during the outro. In a way that moment changed my life.
    Similar for me. I had a .mov copy of the Chicago 98 show on my computer (in three parts I believe) and the Listener Supporter DVD when I was in college before I had seen the band live (first show was summer 2000).

    One of the things that sold me was the opening Last Stop, especially that transition.

    I love this moment when Dave closes his eyes and savors the musical orgasm that he and the band had just collectively created. Still hits me in the feels 21 years later.

    https://youtu.be/LPn3ETPD9IA?t=584
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    Old 01-22-2022, 10:41 PM   #19
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    This is great: BTCS is my fave DMB album, and The Last Stop one of my favorite DMB songs. You found so many facts I didn't know about it, so this was a really wonderful read!

    I don't have much new to say to what's been said about it but one maybe slightly different thing that stands out for me about this song: I saw around 80 DMB shows between '95-'08. While there are moments from shows here and there that I remember well, in terms of specific experiences of songs I will never ever ever forget the 12/8/98 Worcester closing Last Stop.

    I was watching from mid-way back on the floor, and I remember watching the stage but even more so I remember the LIGHTS during this song! It was just one of the most "all-senses" experiences at a DMB show for me. Well maybe not smell and taste, but definitely sound, sight and touch because I FELT the song washing over us like waves! May sound corny but it was frickin' overwhelming in the BEST WAY!

    And the outro, the very end... and the lights there too... all with Bela & Tim onstage... It's the single most clear memory I have almost like I'm watching a live video of it. So many feels.

    Shocked to read that Bela only played it with them live 9 times?? So grateful I saw 4 of them (maybe 5). I also think I saw the 1 '99 show with him on it, but I'll have to look for the date to see.

    Thanks for this great deep dive into the song! Feel free to do Rhyme & Reason next, or Seek Up...
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    Old 01-22-2022, 10:53 PM   #20
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Looked it up, I saw The Last Stop 5 times with Bela on it, including the '99 performance (the Vets Stadium Philly one). And I was reminded I saw it at Nissan with Bill on it too!

    Since I only saw 2 DMB shows between 2003-2008, and none since 2008, I really am stunned how infrequently it's been played. When I started reading stuff here I was so puzzled by all the "TLS is my white whale" but now I understand much better.

    And while we're highlighting maybe lesser known facts about the song, do I remember correctly that TLS was on the setlist at that gig that the creepy guy in the trenchcoat walked onstage and got tackled by band security, and because everyone was spooked and they went offstage right after that, it didn't get played? I read about it recently & it seemed MANY were SUPER HEATED that they missed it because of trenchcoat guy. Do I remember that correctly?
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    Old 01-23-2022, 01:53 PM   #21
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GraceBuckley View Post
    This is great: BTCS is my fave DMB album, and The Last Stop one of my favorite DMB songs. You found so many facts I didn't know about it, so this was a really wonderful read!

    I don't have much new to say to what's been said about it but one maybe slightly different thing that stands out for me about this song: I saw around 80 DMB shows between '95-'08. While there are moments from shows here and there that I remember well, in terms of specific experiences of songs I will never ever ever forget the 12/8/98 Worcester closing Last Stop.

    I was watching from mid-way back on the floor, and I remember watching the stage but even more so I remember the LIGHTS during this song! It was just one of the most "all-senses" experiences at a DMB show for me. Well maybe not smell and taste, but definitely sound, sight and touch because I FELT the song washing over us like waves! May sound corny but it was frickin' overwhelming in the BEST WAY!

    And the outro, the very end... and the lights there too... all with Bela & Tim onstage... It's the single most clear memory I have almost like I'm watching a live video of it. So many feels.

    Shocked to read that Bela only played it with them live 9 times?? So grateful I saw 4 of them (maybe 5). I also think I saw the 1 '99 show with him on it, but I'll have to look for the date to see.

    Thanks for this great deep dive into the song! Feel free to do Rhyme & Reason next, or Seek Up...

    Thanks Grace. My write up was only a good occasion to let people like you share their wonderful experience in such unique shows. I really enjoy your stories, i almost imagine how must have been to be at the show. Chills
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    Old 01-23-2022, 02:06 PM   #22
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daveindyman View Post
    Awesome write-up.... well worth the read! Thanks for this!
    My favorite version is LiC as well. I've been attendance for the Live at Wrigley version and Live Trax 44 Gorge '16 but probably my personal favorite would be the Deer Creek '16 version: https://youtu.be/qUoGgWk8GBU


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speilmen230 View Post
    For my money, it's the best song in the catalogue. LiC is my favorite live recording of the song, and is right there as potentially their best single live performance ever of any song.

    Great writeup for an all timer of a song!


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Patsfan39 View Post
    Fantastic write up. Very insightful. My favorite dmb song I was fortunate to hear it at my first show although I didn’t truly appreciate what I was getting. I heard it once again in Winter 2010 but for whatever reason I wasn’t feeling it that night. I had no idea it would take another 11 years to hear it again and unfortunately it was truncated.

    I will say nothing compares to the transition to the outro in the live setting. That to me is the ultimate DMB concert moment. I think it’s also worth noting, that outro was never the same after fall 98. There’s just something about the dissonance they were able to build up and release in unison. I think their inability to nail that part is why it’s so rarely played. And also why they skip it all together since 2019. Listen to 7.5.03 which was released by Sirius last year, the transition is completely botched.

    I credit this song for launching my full fandom at my first show. I remember distinctly being blow away during the outro. In a way that moment changed my life.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Typical_Ant View Post
    Well this is fascinating! Thank you for your detailed write up.

    Last Stop is an interesting one. It's not an everyday listen for me. I find it to be tedious at times however quite complex in structure and lyrics. This isn't to say I don't like it. It's just not a song I wake up going, I want to hear Last Stop today!

    I love that it's a Dave/Fonz combo and wish the two of them would combine forces more often. Fonz seems to have great riffs, unfinished ideas that Dave builds on. Fonz is certainly not a songwriter by any means.

    I think the outro of this song is one of my favorite pieces of music by any band/artist ever. It's such a beautiful twist of events from the main song. All that tension and anger resolving into beauty. That in the midst of ALL this hate, turmoil, we can find a place that will be ok. And at times of darkness in my past I felt Dave sing those words right to me. Tears well up thinking about it. Pure comfort from a stranger. It's the power of music!

    I do wish it was played more often. Though the truncated version doesn't do it for me. I don't need to "check" it off as seen. I would want the full thing had I not seen it yet.

    I also love that it's more or less part of this middle eastern string of songs beginning with Minarets, Last Stop, Squirm and now MadMans Eyes. They all touch on very different ideas, but kind of have this running underlying mysterious theme.

    It's definitely the type of lyrics I wish Dave would write more of. Less direct, more is meant to be deciphered from the listener. It could be about a variety of subjects revolving around war, politics, media, religion.

    I think the "Nailing God to a tree and then saying Forgive me" is the biggest question mark of all. Growing up religious, it's been a curious thought as to how humanity always kills their savior in order for the prophecy to come true and then begs forgiveness and makes a complete 180 so they can get everlasting life.

    I cannot pick a favorite version. I loved that 2018 one because I was there. But it certainly is missing the key components of Boyd and Roi. Dave and Tim have a couple great versions from 1999 that I like. I think one is on LT 41? The studio version is perfect. One of a handful of studio songs that is better than the live version. And it's in the perfect spot on the album.

    Thanks to everyone for the appreciation to this writeup.

    I am doing a general write-up regarding Fall 98 Tour. The subject is very interesting, but it is much wider and i still feel I am missing too many info. Also I would love some contribution of people who was at those shows.
    So if anybody is interested in helping me in completing / integrating / correcting that write up, please PM me and I’ll share it with you.
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    Old 01-23-2022, 02:10 PM   #23
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    These are good reads. The Ants Overlords should give you a section in the articles and whatnot
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    Old 01-24-2022, 03:11 AM   #24
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xcacel View Post
    Thanks to everyone for the appreciation to this writeup.

    I am doing a general write-up regarding Fall 98 Tour. The subject is very interesting, but it is much wider and i still feel I am missing too many info. Also I would love some contribution of people who was at those shows.
    So if anybody is interested in helping me in completing / integrating / correcting that write up, please PM me and I’ll share it with you.
    The whole year is 100 percent worth hearing. Start with the Island Tour and work through NYE. You will get each show prescribed to you in this string in any case. . .
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    Old 01-24-2022, 02:22 PM   #25
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xcacel View Post
    Thanks to everyone for the appreciation to this writeup.

    I am doing a general write-up regarding Fall 98 Tour. The subject is very interesting, but it is much wider and i still feel I am missing too many info. Also I would love some contribution of people who was at those shows.
    So if anybody is interested in helping me in completing / integrating / correcting that write up, please PM me and I’ll share it with you.
    Do you already have a draft of your write up? I have an idea of something little I might be able to add that might be fun, but it would help to see what you've got so far or at least get a better idea of how you're approaching it. You can DM me here if you like.
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    Old 01-24-2022, 02:28 PM   #26
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Great write up, thank you. The transition of this song always gives me goosebumps. The juxtaposition of the between the two parts of the song is so powerful to me, especially being there live. Which is why Half Stop is so frustrating.

    The lyrics I find to be the most fascinating are:

    "Scream
    Right is wrong now
    Shut up you big lie
    This black and white lie
    You comb your hair to hide
    Your lying eyes
    You're righteous, so righteous
    You're always so right
    But why your lie
    Go ahead and dream
    Go ahead believe that you are the chosen one
    This is the last stop"

    I take this as condemnation of leadership in getting us into wars/conflicts and of us being told there is defined "good" and a "bad," and since a particular thing/people are "bad" according to leadership we're expected to blindly accept that characterization - nuance/costs aside. The "comb your hair to hide your lying eyes" lyric I take as sort of lipstick on a pig. Just because a politician or West Point grad stands at a lectern and tells you something in a fancy suit or dress uniform, doesn't make what they're telling you any more true.
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    Old 01-24-2022, 06:26 PM   #27
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    HEY GUYS. THIS IS NUFD. Xcacel wrote everything that needs to be said. Please quit disrespecting the holy one.
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    Old 01-24-2022, 07:47 PM   #28
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Well done, great write-up.

    Mystery for me has always been the opening lyrics. "This is grace-ah?" is what it sometimes sounds like to me but I'm certain that's not it. In LiC it looks like "brushish grasha"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOgHBMujTCw
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    Old 01-24-2022, 08:00 PM   #29
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Hey buddy, NUFD. This is the holy land and we do not disrespect it.
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    Old 01-25-2022, 01:31 PM   #30
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    Re: Close-up: THE LAST STOP

    Has Dave or any band member ever commented on how infrequently they play Last Stop or on why they do the half version? I know most here believe it's because of the wear & tear on Carter in playing the full version, but has anyone in the band commented in interviews or anywhere about it?
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