The NHL Thread

[~Crashintome89~]

Originally Posted by Roose13

+/- is a terrible stat when looking at an individual player. And I'll gladly take his league-leading 44 goals.

I'm just used that as an example. Not an end all be all. Ovi has 44 goals, but the Caps are nowhere near the top of the standings as they should be with a guy like that on their team.

[Rebecca De Mornay]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

Aw man, I'd love to, but yeah the Tuesdays kinda ruin it. Amazing they haven't played since October, and then they play twice in two weeks. I dunno what goes into the schedule, but you'd think they would have tried for one Saturday night game since the Wings are such a draw there.

no kidding, especially since they had the freaking florida panthers on saturday twice. I guess they figure saturday games draw no matter what and the wings/pens/hawks will fill up the arena any night of the week.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by Roose13

+/- is a terrible stat when looking at an individual player. And I'll gladly take his league-leading 44 goals.

And name those 30 guys, Chris. I would love to see this list

I don't think anyone would turn away his goal-scoring abilities, John. No one has said that. It's his attitude - like I said - that turns most people (including myself) off.

I'll give it a shot for 30 (in alphabetical order according to team just cuz it's easier for me to think that way):
Ryan Getzlaf
Cam Fowler
Patrice Bergeron
David Krejci
Zdeno Chara
Tuuka Rask
Sean Monahan
Jeff Skinner
Johnathan Toews
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Matt Duchene
Gabriel Landeskog
Nathan MacKinnon
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovsky
Ryan Murray
Jamie Benn
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Zetterberg
Jordan Eberle
Dustin Brown
Drew Doughty
Ryan Suter
Shea Weber
Seth Jones
John Tavares
Ryan McDonagh
Henrik Lundqvist
Erik Karlsson
Claude Giroux
Sidney Crosby
David Backes
Alex Pietrangelo
Ryan Miller
Patrick Marleau
Logan Couture
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Callahan
Ryan Kesler

There's 41 names of guys I would seriously take over Ovechkin to build a team around simply because of their combined skills and attitude. I could probably name a few more if I cared to.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I'm not typing out 30 names, but the usual suspects (Toews/Crosby/Datsyuk/etc.) to everyone from Parise to Pietrangelo to Jonathan Quick to Getzlaf I'd rather build a team around than Ovie.

Don't worry, I've got you covered

Damn, I totally should have put Parise and Quick. I was typing quickly.

[Rebecca De Mornay]

couple jackets on that list!!

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

I agree with you Chris, I wouldn't want Ovie on any team I ever rooted for. I'll Phaneuf to that list too, I don't know why but I can't stand that guy.

Exactly. I'm not a big NBA guy, but he's always felt like a Carmelo Anthony. Tremendous talent, just doesn't have that "it" factor that you'd want to build a team around.

[Roose13]

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~

I'm just used that as an example. Not an end all be all. Ovi has 44 goals, but the Caps are nowhere near the top of the standings as they should be with a guy like that on their team.

What about Steven Stamkos (60 g, 37 a) on the 2011-12 Lightning who missed the playoffs? What about John Tavares on the last place Isles this year (before injury)?

The Caps are an awful team with awful defense and awful goaltending. No league-leading goal-scorer or superstar can fix that if there isn't any help around them.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

couple jackets on that list!!

Hell yeah, buddy.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Roose13

What about Steven Stamkos (60 g, 37 a) on the 2011-12 Lightning who missed the playoffs? What about John Tavares on the last place Isles this year (before injury)?

The Caps are an awful team with awful defense and awful goaltending. No league-leading goal-scorer or superstar can fix that if there isn't any help around them.

In an imaginary world where guys aren't automatically paid huge #'s because they score goals, I'd love Ovie on my team to be a compliment to a Toews/Getzlaf/Bergeron/Tavares...but that's not the real world now.

The problem is he commands so much money that he's forced to be the focal point of the team, and his game is just so selfish and one-dimensional that I couldn't justify him as the #1 guy on a salary capped Stanley Cup hopeful. If my goal is to sell jerseys and put butts in the seats? Sure, I'd love Ovie. But my goal would be to win, and Ovie isn't that guy.

[Roose13]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

Patrice Bergeron
Jeff Skinner
Johnathan Toews
Duncan Keith
Matt Duchene
Gabriel Landeskog
Nathan MacKinnon
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Zetterberg
Drew Doughty
Ryan Suter
Shea Weber
John Tavares
Erik Karlsson
Claude Giroux
Sidney Crosby
Alex Pietrangelo
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Kesler

I picked 19 who I would MAYBE take over Ovechkin, with the bolded being definite. I also took goalies off the list since I was talking skaters only.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by Roose13

I picked 19 who I would MAYBE take over Ovechkin, with the bolded being definite. I also took goalies off the list since I was talking skaters only.

You never mentioned talking skaters only.

Oh well, at least you're right with those 19.

Agree with Chris... would take Ovi's goal scoring as a complementary piece on my team, no doubt. But leading a team? Hell no. I'll leave that to the real leaders.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I don't think anyone would turn away his goal-scoring abilities, John. No one has said that. It's his attitude - like I said - that turns most people (including myself) off.

I'll give it a shot for 30 (in alphabetical order according to team just cuz it's easier for me to think that way):
Ryan Getzlaf
Cam Fowler
Patrice Bergeron
David Krejci
Zdeno Chara
Tuuka Rask
Sean Monahan
Jeff Skinner
Johnathan Toews
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Matt Duchene
Gabriel Landeskog
Nathan MacKinnon
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovsky
Ryan Murray
Jamie Benn
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Zetterberg
Jordan Eberle
Dustin Brown
Drew Doughty
Ryan Suter
Shea Weber
Seth Jones
John Tavares
Ryan McDonagh
Henrik Lundqvist
Erik Karlsson
Claude Giroux
Sidney Crosby
David Backes
Alex Pietrangelo
Ryan Miller
Patrick Marleau
Logan Couture
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Callahan
Ryan Kesler

There's 41 names of guys I would seriously take over Ovechkin to build a team around simply because of their combined skills and attitude. I could probably name a few more if I cared to.

Well done. I'd have 88 on that list though.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Well done. I'd have 88 on that list though.

I knew you would say that

[Rebecca De Mornay]

thanks for the new avatar matty!

[Bron Yr Aur]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I don't think anyone would turn away his goal-scoring abilities, John. No one has said that. It's his attitude - like I said - that turns most people (including myself) off.

I'll give it a shot for 30 (in alphabetical order according to team just cuz it's easier for me to think that way):
Ryan Getzlaf
Cam Fowler
Patrice Bergeron
David Krejci
Zdeno Chara
Tuuka Rask
Sean Monahan
Jeff Skinner
Johnathan Toews
Patrick Sharp
Duncan Keith
Matt Duchene
Gabriel Landeskog
Nathan MacKinnon
Semyon Varlamov
Sergei Bobrovsky
Ryan Murray
Jamie Benn
Pavel Datsyuk
Henrik Zetterberg
Jordan Eberle
Dustin Brown
Drew Doughty
Ryan Suter
Shea Weber
Seth Jones
John Tavares
Ryan McDonagh
Henrik Lundqvist
Erik Karlsson
Claude Giroux
Sidney Crosby
David Backes
Alex Pietrangelo
Ryan Miller
Patrick Marleau
Logan Couture
Steven Stamkos
Ryan Callahan
Ryan Kesler

There's 41 names of guys I would seriously take over Ovechkin to build a team around simply because of their combined skills and attitude. I could probably name a few more if I cared to.

The idea that we as fans know the "attitude" of players like Ovechkin is utterly inane. This high and mighty "Ovi COULD be so much better" bullshit just annoys me so much. As if Ovechkin hasn't worked his ass off his entire career / life to become one of the most elite players in the world. Yeesh.

The bolded names are completely ludicrous IMO. Seriously, David Backes?! Sean Monahan?!

Almost-40-year-old Zdeno Chara? You would choose to build your team around a near-40 d-man instead of a prime forward who is probably the best goal scorer in the world. Yeesh.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Roose13

I picked 19 who I would MAYBE take over Ovechkin, with the bolded being definite. I also took goalies off the list since I was talking skaters only.

Since we're doin it. Here are 30 skaters only, but first, Zetterberg really isn't a 100% John?:

Kane
Crosby
Malkin
Toews
Tavares
Stamkos
Keith
Pietrangelo
Datsyuk
Zetterberg
Weber
Giroux
Karlsson
Getzlaf
Bergeron
Suter
Kopitar
Doughty
Sedin
Sedin
Parise
Hossa
Sharp
Benn
Kessel
OEL
Krejci
McDonagh
Landeskog
Skinner
Backes

[Rebecca De Mornay]

Bron it doesn't take much to watch Ovie play and realize he isn't giving 100%

I went to a caps game with my girlfriend a few weeks ago that doesn't watch hockey at all and she said "why doesn't that guy skate back on defense like everyone else?"

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

no kidding, especially since they had the freaking florida panthers on saturday twice. I guess they figure saturday games draw no matter what and the wings/pens/hawks will fill up the arena any night of the week.

You're probably onto something there. Florida on a Tuesday would be a disaster anywhere.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur

The idea that we as fans know the "attitude" of players like Ovechkin is utterly inane. This high and mighty "Ovi COULD be so much better" bullshit just annoys me so much. As if Ovechkin hasn't worked his ass off his entire career / life to become one of the most elite players in the world. Yeesh.

The bolded names are completely ludicrous IMO. Seriously, David Backes?! Sean Monahan?!

Almost-40-year-old Zdeno Chara? You would choose to build your team around a near-40 d-man instead of a prime forward who is probably the best goal scorer in the world. Yeesh.

Sorry to annoy you, Marty. He has worked hard to get to where he is. I can only imagine the sheer amount of wrist shots that guy has taken over the course of his life, probably long after other teammates have left the ice for the day. But the fact is, just about anyone (even a fan) can see that his natural skills (which are through the roof) can lend themselves to a much more complete game. Even a fan can see him lingering in the neutral zone while the puck is in his end. Even a fan can see him giving up on a back check. That's the stuff I'm talking about. It's stuff that's part of the playing fiber of guys like Toews.

And to your questions: Yes, yes, and yes.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Roose13

I picked 19 who I would MAYBE take over Ovechkin, with the bolded being definite. I also took goalies off the list since I was talking skaters only.

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur

The idea that we as fans know the "attitude" of players like Ovechkin is utterly inane. This high and mighty "Ovi COULD be so much better" bullshit just annoys me so much. As if Ovechkin hasn't worked his ass off his entire career / life to become one of the most elite players in the world. Yeesh.

The bolded names are completely ludicrous IMO. Seriously, David Backes?! Sean Monahan?!

Almost-40-year-old Zdeno Chara? You would choose to build your team around a near-40 d-man instead of a prime forward who is probably the best goal scorer in the world. Yeesh.

Here's the thing about him. He's an incredible goal scorer...yes...but he's that guy in rat hockey that just sits around waiting for the puck to touch his stick, basically ignoring the other aspects of the game. He is constantly just thinking "goals goals goals" in his head, and waiting to position himself in the best spot to potentially score. He'll leave his teammates high and dry in the defensive zone, ignore defensive responsibilities in every zone (mostly neutral and defensive) all for the sake of potentially scoring on the other end.

That's all fine and dandy, but hockey is a lot more than putting up insane goal numbers. So many goals against are his fault because he's screwing his linemates/defensemen (it certainly doesn't help that Mike Green is on his team).

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I knew you would say that

The guy is top 5 talent in the league, IMO. He's Datsyuk vol. 2. His defensive abilities have skyrocketed in the past 2-3 years. Watching him backcheck and forecheck used to be a headache, and now it's a freaking magic show. If we're playing the naming guys we'd take over him game, my list for 88 would be:

Toews
Crosby
Keith
Tavares

And that's it. His old rep of being a bad defensive player/drunk/liability is old news. When he's on, he's as good as anyone in the league. Honestly believe that.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

thanks for the new avatar matty!

Happy to help

Originally Posted by lockman21

Since we're doin it. Here are 30 skaters only, but first, Zetterberg really isn't a 100% John?:

Won't argue at all with that list. Iffy on the Sedins, but yeah... Good call on OEL, I think I skipped over the Coyotes completely when I was ticking through the teams in my head.

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

Bron it doesn't take much to watch Ovie play and realize he isn't giving 100%

I went to a caps game with my girlfriend a few weeks ago that doesn't watch hockey at all and she said "why doesn't that guy skate back on defense like everyone else?"

My point exactly. Some people will "well, that's not his role on the team". Pffft.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Here's the thing about him. He's an incredible goal scorer...yes...but he's that guy in rat hockey that just sits around waiting for the puck to touch his stick, basically ignoring the other aspects of the game. He is constantly just thinking "goals goals goals" in his head, and waiting to position himself in the best spot to potentially score. He'll leave his teammates high and dry in the defensive zone, ignore defensive responsibilities in every zone (mostly neutral and defensive) all for the sake of potentially scoring on the other end.

That's all fine and dandy, but hockey is a lot more than putting up insane goal numbers. So many goals against are his fault because he's screwing his linemates/defensemen (it certainly doesn't help that Mike Green is on his team).



The guy is top 5 talent in the league, IMO. He's Datsyuk vol. 2. His defensive abilities have skyrocketed in the past 2-3 years. Watching him backcheck and forecheck used to be a headache, and now it's a freaking magic show. If we're playing the naming guys we'd take over him game, my list for 88 would be:

Toews
Crosby
Keith
Tavares

And that's it. His old rep of being a bad defensive player/drunk/liability is old news. When he's on, he's as good as anyone in the league. Honestly believe that.

We just basically said the same thing about Ovechkin. Love it.

I won't argue the steps Kane has taken to round out his game at all. My laughy face was more at the fact that I knew what you were going to say before you said it, then in any way thinking you saying it was ludicrous.

EDIT: Oh, and speaking of Datsyuk version 2, add O'Reilly to my list (not as agile, but damn fine two way player who I would want on my team any day)

[fonzz41]

My biggest piece of evidence I always use when talking about Ovechkin's efforts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Wjs-Q3S_Y

The Gabe does nothing particularly special here, other than skating hard.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

My biggest piece of evidence I always use when talking about Ovechkin's efforts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Wjs-Q3S_Y

The Gabe does nothing particularly special here, other than skating hard.

http://www.sportspickle.com/wp-conte...3e618a8212.gif

This was always my favorite. NHL 14 version.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I won't argue the steps Kane has taken to round out his game at all. My laughy face was more at the fact that I knew what you were going to say before you said it, then in any way thinking you saying it was ludicrous.

Oh I know.

Curious why he's not on your list though, especially with guys like Couture, etc. on there. (not that I don't like Couture)

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Oh I know.

Curious why he's not on your list though, especially with guys like Couture, etc. on there. (not that I don't like Couture)

In all reality he probably should be. Been more and more impressed with his game this season. Not completely convinced, but getting there.

If I was giving my list more thought (I typed it out in less than 5 minutes), there's a good chance he's on it.

[Rebecca De Mornay]

Speaking of Kane...
Chris is there any chance you could talk him out of playing tonight?
We need these points way more than you do.

[TMoore4075]

So Lidstrom milestone games playing on the NHL Network I guess right now. Right now it's his 1000th point. Next is his first, and only, hat trick.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay

Speaking of Kane...
Chris is there any chance you could talk him out of playing tonight?
We need these points way more than you do.

Hossa's not playing, so that's a plus for you guys?

I'll just tell 19! and 88!!! to at least get it into OT so everyone gets a point.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Hossa's not playing, so that's a plus for you guys?

I'll just tell 19! and 88!!! to at least get it into OT so everyone gets a point.

Fuck that. Kick the shit out of em. No extra points.