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Old 10-21-2018, 08:30 AM   #107971
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Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
Except it's such a gross oversimplification that it's more or less completely wrong.

I've heard people choose to be poor and homeless too. It's equally as dumb of a statement.
I never said you have to agree with him
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There are two types of people who wear sunglasses indoors. Blind people and assholes.
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  • Old 10-21-2018, 08:35 AM   #107972
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    I never said you have to agree with him
    You said he wasn't wrong. But he is.

    In a perfect world, is he right? Maybe. But we don't live in that world, we live in this one. His comment is flat out ignorant.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:37 AM   #107973
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    Should people have to stand for the national anthem when it is played at their work?
    Should vegans work at McDonald’s and refuse to serve burgers? It’s just common sense. I’m not surprised the religious have a hard time grasping it.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:38 AM   #107974
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
    Should vegans work at McDonald’s and refuse to serve burgers? It’s just common sense. I’m not surprised the religious have a hard time grasping it.
    I don't think it's "the religious" who have a hard time grasping it. That's too broad.

    Just...certain types of people. A subset of that larger group.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:40 AM   #107975
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    You said he wasn't wrong. But he is.

    In a perfect world, is he right? Maybe. But we don't live in that world, we live in this one. His comment is flat out ignorant.
    I just never knew so many people look at each other as completely helpless. It’s kind of gross.
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    There are two types of people who wear sunglasses indoors. Blind people and assholes.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:42 AM   #107976
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    I just never knew so many people look at each other as completely helpless. It’s kind of gross.
    Some people are dealt shitty hands and they do they best that they can with them. Uprooting and moving is not an easy thing to do, even if you don't start with a shitty hand
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:45 AM   #107977
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Except it's such a gross oversimplification that it's more or less completely wrong.

    I've heard people choose to be poor and homeless too. It's equally as dumb of a statement.
    City folk just don’t get it.

    This makes me question if you have ever even talked to someone from a small town or rural area.

    I was in Fairplay yesterday. One street. On the local radio station they had commercials literally talking about how they had to go to Colorado Springs or pueblo to get stuff.

    You should get out more.
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    Last edited by Climb2safety; 10-21-2018 at 08:46 AM.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:45 AM   #107978
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JRS1386 View Post
    Some people are dealt shitty hands and they do they best that they can with them. Uprooting and moving is not an easy thing to do, even if you don't start with a shitty hand
    I never claimed to the contrary, but I know for a fact I’d never teach a kid that they are utterly fucked no matter what. That’s inhuman. Which means applying it to adults is even worse. Most people choose where they live, yes or no. That’s what we’re dealing with here. The tail ends of the bell curve is not where this argument rests.
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    There are two types of people who wear sunglasses indoors. Blind people and assholes.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:46 AM   #107979
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
    Should vegans work at McDonald’s and refuse to serve burgers? It’s just common sense. I’m not surprised the religious have a hard time grasping it.
    Answer mine first.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:48 AM   #107980
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    I never claimed to the contrary, but I know for a fact I’d never teach a kid that they are utterly fucked no matter what. That’s inhuman. Which means applying it to adults is even worse. Most people choose where they live, yes or no. That’s what we’re dealing with here. The tail ends of the bell curve is not where this argument rests.
    And were done.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:50 AM   #107981
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JRS1386 View Post
    And were done.
    We’re. That’s going to drop your grade.
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    There are two types of people who wear sunglasses indoors. Blind people and assholes.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:50 AM   #107982
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    City folk just don’t get it.

    This makes me question if you have ever even talked to someone from a small town or rural area.

    I was in Fairplay yesterday. One street. On the local radio station they had commercials liters talking about how they had to go to Colorado Springs or pueblo to get stuff.

    You should get out more.


    Thanks for the lecture climb. "City folk". Pittsburgh is the biggest city I've ever lived in/near, and I've been here less than 2 years. But you clearly know so much about my experience. I couldn't possibly be able to understand....

    I've lived in rural areas, both in the north and south. I have family from very rural areas. I have relatives who were born in these places, and are more or less stuck there.

    Your comment was so ignorant of economic conditions in many rural areas in the US. The attitude you have is also why Democrats lost the Midwest. It's ignorant beyond belief to say people "choose" to live there.
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    Last edited by BTBaboon; 10-21-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 08:52 AM   #107983
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post


    Thanks for the lecture climb.

    I've lived in rural areas, both in the north and south. I have family from very rural areas. I have relatives who were born in these places, and are more or less stuck there.

    Your comment was so ignorant of economic conditions in many rural areas in the US. The attitude you have is also why Democrats lost the Midwest. It's ignorant beyond belief to say people "choose" to live there.
    Where specifically are you referring to where people are stuck? Maybe we are talking two different things.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 09:04 AM   #107984
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    Answer mine first.
    How does not standing for the anthem affect lives?
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    Old 10-21-2018, 09:29 AM   #107985
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
    Should vegans work at McDonald’s and refuse to serve burgers? It’s just common sense. I’m not surprised the religious have a hard time grasping it.
    60% of what McDonald's sells/handles is meat. That would be an unreasonable accommodation.

    Abortion pills are probably .0001% (not many people get abortions and not everyone uses a pharmacist to facilitate it) of what pharmacists Dole out. Probably a little more reasonable to work within that religious objection, if possible.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 09:49 AM   #107986
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Is anyone here a pharmacist or knows an actual pharmacist? From what I'm hearing you guys seem to think they are robotic pill dispensers. They aren't paid a ridiculous amount of money for no reason...

    That being said, this seems like a strange hill to die on. The person was fired! Sounds like justice to me.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:03 AM   #107987
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    As usual, a certain group of locals here are simply being unreasonable. It’s not the first time.

    And to go with this unreasonableness comes a typical vitriol for religion and those that practice it and as a last resort attacking me for my willingness to try to discuss these extremely complicated issues here. Good times.

    Where to start? How about almost every state and pharmacists groups and institutions of health agree with me.

    In this case, the pharmacy itself made sure the patient got her medication and at the same time respected the principles of their employee to exercise their conscience when dispensing medication.

    This is a reasonable outcome which is my it escapes most of you here.
    Do you think "Are you willing and able to perform all duties of this job" is an appropriate question to be asked in a job interview?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JRS1386 View Post
    https://www.freep.com/story/news/201...on/1684714002/

    The Pharmacist in the story I posted has been fired.
    Good.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    Should people have to stand for the national anthem when it is played at their work?
    Absolutely not. Unless they were hired specifically to stand while the national anthem is playing...kind of like pharmacists are hired to specifically fill prescriptions.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    Hey Climb...Should I be able to not pay taxes on religious grounds bacause a portion of that money ends up funding the killing of other humans?
    Would love an answer here C2S

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    60% of what McDonald's sells/handles is meat. That would be an unreasonable accommodation.

    Abortion pills are probably .0001% (not many people get abortions and not everyone uses a pharmacist to facilitate it) of what pharmacists Dole out. Probably a little more reasonable to work within that religious objection, if possible.
    Do you think "Are you willing and able to perform all duties of this job" is an appropriate question to be asked in a job interview?


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aoeiifreak View Post
    Is anyone here a pharmacist or knows an actual pharmacist? From what I'm hearing you guys seem to think they are robotic pill dispensers. They aren't paid a ridiculous amount of money for no reason...

    That being said, this seems like a strange hill to die on. The person was fired! Sounds like justice to me.
    Agreed.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:15 AM   #107988
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    Do you think "Are you willing and able to perform all duties of this job" is an appropriate question to be asked in a job interview?.
    I think that question, in a vacuum, is a slap in the face to workers rights. If that was the standard today we would still be in the 1880s when it came to workers rights.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:15 AM   #107989
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    pharmacist should have been fired, she refused to do her job
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:16 AM   #107990
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    I think that question, in a vacuum, is a slap in the face to workers rights. If that was the standard today we would still be in the 1880s when it came to workers rights.
    How so?8
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:18 AM   #107991
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
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    I think that question, in a vacuum, is a slap in the face to workers rights. If that was the standard today we would still be in the 1880s when it came to workers rights.
    yeah I'm a little curious about this one
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:26 AM   #107992
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    How so?8
    Without workers protection laws in place (including reasonable religious accommodations) employers could say you have to work 80 hours a week. No overtime pay. No safety standards etc. All under the guise of "this is part of the duties of the job. If you don't like it, leave."

    "And the migrants streamed in on the highways and their hunger was in their eyes, and their need was in their eyes. They had no argument, no system, nothing but their numbers and their needs. When there was work for a man, ten men fought for it— fought with a low wage. If that fella’ll work for thirty cents, I’ll work for twenty-five. If he’ll take twenty-five, I’ll do it for twenty. No, me, I’m hungry. I’ll work for fifteen. I’ll work for food. The kids. You ought to see them. Little boils, like, comin’ out, an’ they can’t run aroun’. Give ’em some windfall fruit, an’ they bloated up. Me, I’ll work for a little piece of meat." Grapes of wrath
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    Old 10-21-2018, 10:46 AM   #107993
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    All I've said about this specific issue is that I thought Walgreens policy was correct and reasonable. Employers should work with employees on religious accommodations if the accommodations are reasonable and don't unreasonably impact the service the company is trying to provide their customers.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:06 AM   #107994
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Without workers protection laws in place (including reasonable religious accommodations) employers could say you have to work 80 hours a week. No overtime pay. No safety standards etc. All under the guise of "this is part of the duties of the job. If you don't like it, leave."

    "And the migrants streamed in on the highways and their hunger was in their eyes, and their need was in their eyes. They had no argument, no system, nothing but their numbers and their needs. When there was work for a man, ten men fought for it— fought with a low wage. If that fella’ll work for thirty cents, I’ll work for twenty-five. If he’ll take twenty-five, I’ll do it for twenty. No, me, I’m hungry. I’ll work for fifteen. I’ll work for food. The kids. You ought to see them. Little boils, like, comin’ out, an’ they can’t run aroun’. Give ’em some windfall fruit, an’ they bloated up. Me, I’ll work for a little piece of meat." Grapes of wrath
    Seems like a C2S post to be honest.

    You're really reaching here and trying to connect worker protection in a way that doesn't make sense.

    Every job has a job description...a list of duties the job entails. How can you have an issue with employers wanting a candidate that can actually complete all of those duties? Seems absolutely ridiculous.

    Also, grapes of wrath??? Pretty sure this isn't the 1930's from a labor protection standpoint. You act as if not allowing people to shirk the basic duties of their job on religious grounds would somehow spin us back to 1930. Intellectually dishonest.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:10 AM   #107995
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Your question, in a vacuum, would take us back to the 1930s. That's my objection to it and why I wont agree with it on it's face.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:16 AM   #107996
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Your question, in a vacuum, would take us back to the 1930s. That's my objection to it and why I wont agree with it on it's face.
    No. It won’t. That’s BS. Plus we don’t live in a vacuum.

    You won’t agree with it bc it’s logically incongruent with your views on this particular religious issue.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:18 AM   #107997
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Walgreens said in a statement: "Our policy allows pharmacists to step away from filling a prescription for which they have a moral objection. At the same time, they are also required to refer the prescription to another pharmacist or manager on duty to meet the patient's needs in a timely manner. We are looking into the matter to ensure that our patients' needs are handled properly."

    I think Walgreens has the perfect policy.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    I didn't read the stories with a fine tooth comb. The policy I quoted wouldn't allow those things. It says it must be referred to a manager or pharmacist on duty. I guess I figured that was the same store.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    For me, there are two Walgreens within 5 minutes of each other. I know that isn't the rule but I think companies do need to work with religious beliefs. Ultimately customer comes first, especially in the medical world, but if a company can accommodate both I have no problem with a company accommodating religious beliefs if it is "reasonable"
    Quote:
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    Totally understand. And I think medical community should be held to the highest scrutiny under the "reasonable" standard. Just a slight disagreement overall and that's fine

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    That'd be above and beyond reasonable. So they could be denied employment
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    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    I'm pro employee. You liberal fat cats are pro employer.

    Unionize!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    60% of what McDonald's sells/handles is meat. That would be an unreasonable accommodation.

    Abortion pills are probably .0001% (not many people get abortions and not everyone uses a pharmacist to facilitate it) of what pharmacists Dole out. Probably a little more reasonable to work within that religious objection, if possible.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    I think that question, in a vacuum, is a slap in the face to workers rights. If that was the standard today we would still be in the 1880s when it came to workers rights.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Without workers protection laws in place (including reasonable religious accommodations) employers could say you have to work 80 hours a week. No overtime pay. No safety standards etc. All under the guise of "this is part of the duties of the job. If you don't like it, leave."

    "And the migrants streamed in on the highways and their hunger was in their eyes, and their need was in their eyes. They had no argument, no system, nothing but their numbers and their needs. When there was work for a man, ten men fought for it— fought with a low wage. If that fella’ll work for thirty cents, I’ll work for twenty-five. If he’ll take twenty-five, I’ll do it for twenty. No, me, I’m hungry. I’ll work for fifteen. I’ll work for food. The kids. You ought to see them. Little boils, like, comin’ out, an’ they can’t run aroun’. Give ’em some windfall fruit, an’ they bloated up. Me, I’ll work for a little piece of meat." Grapes of wrath
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    All I've said about this specific issue is that I thought Walgreens policy was correct and reasonable. Employers should work with employees on religious accommodations if the accommodations are reasonable and don't unreasonably impact the service the company is trying to provide their customers.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Your question, in a vacuum, would take us back to the 1930s. That's my objection to it and why I wont agree with it on it's face.
    Here are all my posts on the issue. Seems pretty reasonable take to me. Quoting all these because I think people think my views are more extreme than they really are.
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:19 AM   #107998
    jcc522
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Here are all my posts on the issue. Seems pretty reasonable take to me. Quoting all these because I think people think my views are more extreme than they really are.


    Good summary of this entire thread, tbh
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    Old 10-21-2018, 11:23 AM   #107999
    cazzie34
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    No. It won’t. That’s BS. Plus we don’t live in a vacuum.

    You won’t agree with it bc it’s logically incongruent with your views on this particular religious issue.
    Is your question done with the assumption that religious accommodations are required by title vii of the 1964 civil rights act? Because if so, sure, I agree with your question.

    "The law requires an employer or other covered entity to reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices, unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business. This means an employer may be required to make reasonable adjustments to the work environment that will allow an employee to practice his or her religion.

    Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practices."

    https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm
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    Old 10-21-2018, 12:10 PM   #108000
    MDPrompter
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I don’t see shirking your core job responsibility anywhere in there.
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