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Old 07-17-2017, 09:57 AM   #31
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Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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Anyone who has listened to my opinions on DMB in the studio and DMB vinyl knows that it's borderline inappropriate love. No poo-poo'ing from my on DMB studio vinyl releases, I assure you!
We will discuss further when I make my guest appearance.

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  • Old 07-17-2017, 10:51 AM   #32
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Kind of sad it takes 3+ years of planning to put together a track listing of 25 rare songs for a band of this size.

    Thats not to say its not appreciated, just surprising they have so few resources to devote the time to get something like this done in a timely fashion.

    Makes me highly doubt any future stuff like this.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #33
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Brett, I totally agree with you. I have a record player and I would love to buy it on vinyl more than any other format but it being over $200 with everything included, I just can't do that right now. So for people who don't have $200 plus to spend nor have a record player, there has to be another option. CD or digital download, has to be a secondary option.

    If it doesn't, I definitely lose respect for the band and co. because it makes them come off as capitalistic pigs.
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    I think its an absolute joke that this possibly isn't getting released in other formats. All the money the majority of people have spent to support this band through the years, and this is how we are thanked?

    Someone will make the arguments that there is a ton of content out there already that we can download if we want, but truthfully its all become the same to me... I stopped buying live trax, and dmblive because nothing separates them for me anymore. It's all starting to sound too similar. Same songs selections, perhaps great performances, but not distinguishable enough to keep me interested in spending money. I don't need more ants, two steps, or crashes in my collection, with the occasional "greatest performance ever" of if i had it all sprinkled in. I need the break for its, falling off the roofs, etc... to keep the collection fresh and exciting.

    This would/will be a nice way to rejuvenate my interest because it was different, and they blew/are blowing it for me personally by making the decision to have this vinyl only.

    My take, don't really care how others feel about my opinions. It is what it is. Happy for those who have the ability, and the means, to afford and hear these.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 02:08 PM   #34
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Brett, I totally agree with you. I have a record player and I would love to buy it on vinyl more than any other format but it being over $200 with everything included, I just can't do that right now. So for people who don't have $200 plus to spend nor have a record player, there has to be another option. CD or digital download, has to be a secondary option.

    If it doesn't, I definitely lose respect for the band and co. because it makes them come off as capitalistic pigs.
    Not capitalism! No!

    At least Dave and Tim are selling Mexico resort trips for the pure love of the music.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 02:11 PM   #35
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Brett, I totally agree with you. I have a record player and I would love to buy it on vinyl more than any other format but it being over $200 with everything included, I just can't do that right now. So for people who don't have $200 plus to spend nor have a record player, there has to be another option. CD or digital download, has to be a secondary option.

    If it doesn't, I definitely lose respect for the band and co. because it makes them come off as capitalistic pigs.
    "The vinyl is just a capitalistic pig move! They'd make more money if they'd do the thing I want!"
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    Old 07-17-2017, 02:16 PM   #36
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    "lose respect for the band" over a vinyl only release?

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    Old 07-17-2017, 02:26 PM   #37
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Brett, I totally agree with you. I have a record player and I would love to buy it on vinyl more than any other format but it being over $200 with everything included, I just can't do that right now. So for people who don't have $200 plus to spend nor have a record player, there has to be another option. CD or digital download, has to be a secondary option.

    If it doesn't, I definitely lose respect for the band and co. because it makes them come off as capitalistic pigs.
    So let me get this straight. If the band only releases 2500 of these on vinyl for $175 and makes a maximum revenue of of ~437,000, they are greedy bastards. But if they had released this on both vinyl and had a digital/CD release to make more than 437,000 in revenue they are some being more altruistic by seeking more money?

    You know I really would like Warriors courtside season tickets for $50 dollars or an 80 inch OLED TV for $75 and these companies that won't give me the product I want at the price point I want it are evil bastards.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 03:17 PM   #38
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    My main point is that people have been buying the same, repetitive, songs via digital releases, or cds, for years now. The songs getting their first release should be made available to those who have supported the band by buying 50+ different two steps for the last 15+years of live releases that have been sold.

    I get why management is doing it (and we still don't know if there isnt't a digital option coming), I personally just think it sucks if there won't be. That's all.

    My options will be to purchase, and listen, to a new live trax that contains a ton of things im exhausted by, or continue listening to what ive already purchased. The final option is to not listen to them at all, which unfortunately is starting to happen with me.

    I need new, and fresh.

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    Old 07-17-2017, 03:45 PM   #39
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    The release is a very cool idea. I'm not spending $175 to hear it, but I also understand the purchasers not wanting them to release it on any other format. If they do that, then the price tag should be wayyy down. In other words, I'm fine accepting that I may never hear these tracks simply because I think it's overpriced and I don't see the price tag/worth aligning.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 05:12 PM   #40
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Old 07-17-2017, 05:49 PM   #41
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Kind of sad it takes 3+ years of planning to put together a track listing of 25 rare songs for a band of this size.

    Thats not to say its not appreciated, just surprising they have so few resources to devote the time to get something like this done in a timely fashion.

    Makes me highly doubt any future stuff like this.
    Didn't take 3 years of planning. There's literally nothing sad about the planning of this project


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    Old 07-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #42
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Didn't take 3 years of planning. There's literally nothing sad about the planning of this project


    You do not know of what you speak
    You said they contacted you in late 13 or early 14, did you not?

    Means they were at least thinking about it then. I'm sure it was probably on the back burner for awhile but still lends to the fact that they can't get something like this out without a substantial amount of planning.

    If you want to elaborate on the process I'd be interested to hear.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 07:31 PM   #43
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Not capitalism! No!

    At least Dave and Tim are selling Mexico resort trips for the pure love of the music.
    No one said anything about love of the music. People want this particular release. It has nothing to do with your stance of other material being available. We want and are willing to pay for this material of they release it on a format 90% of the music buying public uses.

    Shows and releases are apples and oranges. They tour the country so everyone has a reasonable opportunity to see them. Live releases are for everyone no matter where they live because they can be easily reproduced. The Mexico shows and this live relesse have nothing in common.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 08:04 PM   #44
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    You said they contacted you in late 13 or early 14, did you not?

    Means they were at least thinking about it then. I'm sure it was probably on the back burner for awhile but still lends to the fact that they can't get something like this out without a substantial amount of planning.

    If you want to elaborate on the process I'd be interested to hear.
    You don't know when it was completed.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 08:22 PM   #45
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    You don't know when it was completed.
    Why did they wait until 7 months into the bands 26th year to release this? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to sell around Christmas?
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    Old 07-17-2017, 10:57 PM   #46
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    You don't know when it was completed.
    Wellll when was it completed then, Mr. Jake? I feel like you can elaborate but you're just not willing to. Am I getting warmer??
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    Old 07-18-2017, 07:36 AM   #47
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    You said they contacted you in late 13 or early 14, did you not?

    Means they were at least thinking about it then. I'm sure it was probably on the back burner for awhile but still lends to the fact that they can't get something like this out without a substantial amount of planning.

    If you want to elaborate on the process I'd be interested to hear.
    Honestly, most well done vinyl releases take substantial time. VMP recently remastered and pressed, for the first time ever, Fiona Apple's Tidal. It was a nearly 3 year process in all, and it was a great release.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    Why did they wait until 7 months into the bands 26th year to release this? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to sell around Christmas?
    Pressing delays are not really uncommon. I have a few things on pre-order that were slated for early 2017 releases and still have not shipped. There's not enough presses for the influx of demand; plus you have RSD twice a year which seems to get priority over other releases.

    Or, they figured it would be a good time for a release with the "off-year" and the D&T tour done
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    Old 07-18-2017, 07:45 AM   #48
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Won't be getting this release simply because I don't have a vinyl player. Well actually I think my parents may have one in the attic but who knows if it works or not. It's so fucking old and has Ben rotting away in the attic for years.
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    Old 07-18-2017, 07:47 AM   #49
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    I'm on team "this need to be released in a digital format"
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    Old 07-21-2017, 10:26 AM   #50
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    why do 73% of podcasts these days consist of dudes sitting around talking about food?
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    Old 08-07-2017, 07:41 PM   #51
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Finally getting to listen to all of this (as I sit and wait for my Live 25 that is now pushed back to wednesday). Great listen overall, but you've got some misinformation about the quality of sound on this and the RR95 release being due to being a pure analog wave vs the digital chop up. all of these live tapes, and the RR95 tapes, are being done from a CD quality digital recording. 44,100 snapshots per minute on a CD, or 44,100 snapshots per minute pressed to vinyl, is still not a pure analog wave. Mastering has a lot to do with why RR95 sounds so damn good, along with the cutting factory having a better DAC than most people do on their home CD players.
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    Old 08-07-2017, 09:59 PM   #52
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Finally getting to listen to all of this (as I sit and wait for my Live 25 that is now pushed back to wednesday). Great listen overall, but you've got some misinformation about the quality of sound on this and the RR95 release being due to being a pure analog wave vs the digital chop up. all of these live tapes, and the RR95 tapes, are being done from a CD quality digital recording. 44,100 snapshots per minute on a CD, or 44,100 snapshots per minute pressed to vinyl, is still not a pure analog wave. Mastering has a lot to do with why RR95 sounds so damn good, along with the cutting factory having a better DAC than most people do on their home CD players.
    Thanks for the note; you're correct on that. If the source is digital, it doesn't much matter if it's laid down in an analog form.
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    Old 08-07-2017, 10:07 PM   #53
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Thanks for the note; you're correct on that. If the source is digital, it doesn't much matter if it's laid down in an analog form.
    Well...that's not 100% true. An analog format will still sound different to its digital counterpart (though not necessarily better, some say it is "warmer", but it could also be inferior) all conditions - specifically the mastering - held equal. The mastering is what matters the most, and often today a vinyl release gets a separate vinyl-specific mastering that is superior to the digital/CD release; that's when vinyl sounds better.
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    I'm Hilly and even I think your argument is stupid and flawed.

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    Old 08-08-2017, 02:04 AM   #54
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Thanks for the note; you're correct on that. If the source is digital, it doesn't much matter if it's laid down in an analog form.
    Sometimes yes, sometimes no, not all digital is created equal. Many MOV releases on vinyl are a great example. They use a lot of hi-res (24/96) digital masters to press from similar to UTTAD) and those often sound better than their CDs (16/44.1). And as BTB says, the mastering process, specifically how compression is used, plays a big role. LT3 and RR95 are perfect examples. The CDs were pretty squished, the vinyl are much more open and sound far better. Same exact 16/44 source tape. We discuss/argue about this over in the vinyl thread all the time. I'm actually a huge proponent of the notion that a properly mastered CD can sound better than it's vinyl counterpart (if you have a decent CD player with a quality DAC) it's just that almost nobody makes non-brickwalled CDs anymore. The number of people on the planet with the ears to tell the difference between analog and 16/44 digital are incredibly finite. There is a reason that 16/44 was picked as the sample rate.
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    Old 08-11-2017, 08:11 AM   #55
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    I absolutely think it should come with a digital download for on-the-go listening, but that is a different story. I also have no problem with Joe's opinion that offering a CD/digital only option would devalue this collection. From the moment it was released it was advertised as limited release, 2500 units only, no mention of any other media available. If they offer a CD/download after the fact, it is not only unfair to those who only bought it because they felt it was their only chance to get the music... but is unfair to the collectors making in an investment.
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    Old 08-11-2017, 08:26 AM   #56
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    I absolutely think it should come with a digital download for on-the-go listening, but that is a different story. I also have no problem with Joe's opinion that offering a CD/digital only option would devalue this collection. From the moment it was released it was advertised as limited release, 2500 units only, no mention of any other media available. If they offer a CD/download after the fact, it is not only unfair to those who only bought it because they felt it was their only chance to get the music... but is unfair to the collectors making in an investment.
    FWIW, in general, records are a dumb investment
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    Old 08-11-2017, 09:27 AM   #57
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    Well...that's not 100% true. An analog format will still sound different to its digital counterpart (though not necessarily better, some say it is "warmer", but it could also be inferior) all conditions - specifically the mastering - held equal. The mastering is what matters the most, and often today a vinyl release gets a separate vinyl-specific mastering that is superior to the digital/CD release; that's when vinyl sounds better.
    I disagree with the bolded; in my experience with major label releases, which comprise the bulk of vinyl sales, it's very rare the label goes to the additional expense of creating two masters. When they do, no doubt they'll note as much in the liner credits (see Adele's "25", Eric Clapton's "I Still Do") as the person cutting the vinyl will also be doing the mastering.

    While the DR database shows a lot of vinyl releases having higher DR scores than their CD counterparts, the TT meter is very unaccurate for vinyl and I wish they'd add a toggle to hide all vinyl releases. I mentioned it to the developers along with adding more detailed formats (so you don't have to put "unknown" for "Blu-ray") and they're looking into it.
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    Old 08-11-2017, 10:15 AM   #58
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

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    I disagree with the bolded; in my experience with major label releases, which comprise the bulk of vinyl sales, it's very rare the label goes to the additional expense of creating two masters. When they do, no doubt they'll note as much in the liner credits (see Adele's "25", Eric Clapton's "I Still Do") as the person cutting the vinyl will also be doing the mastering.

    While the DR database shows a lot of vinyl releases having higher DR scores than their CD counterparts, the TT meter is very unaccurate for vinyl and I wish they'd add a toggle to hide all vinyl releases. I mentioned it to the developers along with adding more detailed formats (so you don't have to put "unknown" for "Blu-ray") and they're looking into it.
    Yeah, you're right. "Often" wasn't the best word choice. "Sometimes" or "Occassionally" is probably best.

    Though I will say, I feel like the percentage is growing. For an Adele release, of all things, to get its own vinyl master is encouraging.
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    Old 08-17-2017, 10:01 PM   #59
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    Re: Ants Podcast 84: DMB Live 25 (28?) - Episode Discussion

    Is anyone able to download the episodes from iTunes? I can see episodes 84 and 85 in the iTunes Store, but when I try to download, I get "iTunes can't verify the identity of the server media.antsmarching.org. The certificate for this server is invalid" I've tried clearing iTunes cache and updating to the latest version. Anyone else seeing this?

    Sidenote, I also tried to go to media.antsmarching.org, and I was met with a warning about https being insecure. Sounds like there might be a certificate issue? (Still not sure if this is just me though...)
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    Old 08-19-2017, 08:49 PM   #60
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MSIMSON View Post
    Is anyone able to download the episodes from iTunes? I can see episodes 84 and 85 in the iTunes Store, but when I try to download, I get "iTunes can't verify the identity of the server media.antsmarching.org. The certificate for this server is invalid" I've tried clearing iTunes cache and updating to the latest version. Anyone else seeing this?

    Sidenote, I also tried to go to media.antsmarching.org, and I was met with a warning about https being insecure. Sounds like there might be a certificate issue? (Still not sure if this is just me though...)
    The shift to all-HTTPS for antsmarching.org has caused this side effect. It wasn't intended and I've updated the XML feed to reflect updated addresses for the podcast episodes. It *should* be remedied, but may take a while for podcast apps to update the cached feed. Please try refreshing your podcast app and try again.
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