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Old 09-19-2012, 12:14 AM   #61
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Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshathra View Post
I couldn't agree more with the OP.

I see AFTW as an inverse of Busted Stuff. Whereas Busted Stuff featured mediocre performances of really amazing songs, AFTW has really amazing performances of really mediocre songs. Lillywhite did HIS job very well--the band (and really, Dave) just missed the mark a bit this time out. It's not BAD; I want to like it and had really high hopes, but it's just boring and uninspired. Too many bad lyrics, too many predictable and/or nonexistent melodies.

Nothing illustrates this for me better than "Drunken Soldier." I had such high hopes for that song--I wanted nothing more to hear Jeff, Tim, Rashawn, and hell even Boyd shred over a 4 minute outro. When I listened through the album for the first time and was generally underwhelmed with what I was hearing, I always thought "well just wait until Drunken Soldier!" And when I got there, I just heard a cool-but-noodly, some decent riffing, then some TERRIBLE lyrics, a few more cool riffs, a few more terrible lyrics, then a reasonably promising outro that just... faded out.

I may be the only person in all of DMB fandom who thought "that's it!?" at the end of "Drunken Soldier." You could trim it down to 5 minutes in length and the song wouldn't suffer at all. "Squirm" was WAY more epic at half the length. I was hoping for the DMB equivalent of Umphrey McGee's "Mantis"--an epic with all sorts of cool disparate sections that builds to a climax that really states what the band is about. What I got was a cheesy carpe diem song with an extra long intro and outro.

So, like the album, it has all sorts of ingredients I SHOULD like, but it misses the mark (particularly in the melody and lyrics departments) as often as it hits, and never really NAILS it. The album comes out to less than the sum of its parts.

It is what it is. I gave up trying to analyze the overall direction of this band years ago, so I don't have the "the sky is falling" feeling that I felt when Everyday and Stand Up hit. DMB is a veteran band that's released 8 albums, and when you release 8 albums they can't all be the best. They've released 3 masterpieces, 2 very enjoyable but imperfect albums (BS and BW), 2 turds (ED and SU), and one that's not horrible but just really boring (AFTW). Most bands would kill to have a track record like that.

Hopefully they go back to Lillywhite again for the next one, and maybe they'll hit it closer to the mark then.
Ok so I hardly ever post on the boards and it seems there's an endless revolving door of negativity regarding what is supposed to be a fan site for ur favorite band (.I don't see any other reason why some1 would become a member of this site unless DMB is ur fav band)
With that said, I am unfortunately forced to agree with a lot of the opinions expresses in the above quoted post regarding AFTW, especially concerning Drunken Soldier. With all the hype built up about this track from a few lucky people who were given the once on a lifetime gift of being able to preview the album months b4 it was released, I feel it did not match up. I hate to feel this way about my favorite band, but the truth is the truth. There are many songs I do enjoy off AFTW and I thoroughly enjoyed hearing a lot of them live this summer @ Mansfield N2 and SPAC N1, with the band's performance of If Only @ SPAC N1 making If Only my favorite AFTW track to hear live. All I'm saying is that, for me, AFTW didn't deliver on the scale all the hype promised.....
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  • Old 09-19-2012, 12:32 AM   #62
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Ugh, if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

    No need to try and convince me with the onslaught of negativity that I shouldn't like it.

    I love this album, it's a feel good album, and I smile every time I listen to it.

    And no it's not over hyped, because it's a fantastic album.
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    Old 10-09-2012, 03:14 PM   #63
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    After the extra wait for us not living in the US, finally getting to listen to this latest from the DMB has been somewhat disappointing. No, actually it's been very disappointing. I can't put my finger on it but this just doesn't sound like the band I have enjoyed listening to for the last seventeen years. Are there too many band members these days which is diluting the DMB sound?




    I doubt if this will be getting many more plays now that I have listened to it, and I suspect it won't do anything to further endear the DMB to a UK audience, as it just sounds like some middle of the road US pop band....
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    Old 10-10-2012, 02:13 PM   #64
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    There are just too many amazing moments on this album for it to not be actually good IMO.

    I don't think just because it has Lillywhites name on it that I am blown away by:
    -Boyd's Solo on Broken Things.
    -Broken Things melody and amazing chorus.
    -Every single second of Belly Belly Nice...perfection.
    -The outro of Mercy
    -The flute and band solo in the last 2-3 minutes of The Riff
    -Belly Full's lyrics and melody
    -If Only's melodic vibe, perfect vocal delivery, catchy lyrics and great guitar and sax work
    -Rooftop's powerful baritone sax, complex guitar riff and increadible outro by Rashawn
    -Snow Outside's amazing guitar riff, beautiful lyrics and absolutely spell binding outro
    -Drunken Soldier's technically musical prowess and mesmorizing outro


    All of these absolutely have me loving this album. I do think overall the "depth" and "creativity" of Dave's lyrics keep this album short of the Big 4 (Big 3 +LWSessions). But with the amazing production and moments like I detailed above cement it's place as the 5th best album effort the band has done, by far.

    This album reminds me of why I feel in love with this band again. First time I could say that about a new album since I have been a fan in the 1999-2000 era.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 03:33 PM   #65
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    To an extent.

    Musically the album 9/10
    lyrics are a 6/10
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    Old 10-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #66
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    I can't take all this analytic crap. How about this: Stop trying to find reasons to dislike this album, shut the fuck up and enjoy the music... lastly... if you have a thought like this, ask your dog or cat before bringing it to us. Thanks.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 03:47 PM   #67
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    After the extra wait for us not living in the US, finally getting to listen to this latest from the DMB has been somewhat disappointing. No, actually it's been very disappointing. I can't put my finger on it but this just doesn't sound like the band I have enjoyed listening to for the last seventeen years. Are there too many band members these days which is diluting the DMB sound?




    I doubt if this will be getting many more plays now that I have listened to it, and I suspect it won't do anything to further endear the DMB to a UK audience, as it just sounds like some middle of the road US pop band....
    You're crazy.

    Everyday, Busted Stuff, Stand Up, Big Whisky, and Away from the World are FIVE albums over the span of 12 years with FIVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOUNDS.

    So what band HAVE you been listening to the past 17 years?

    ... and another thing. Do you expect a band to grow up for 20 years, have a member pass away and be replaced by someone else, have a piano replaced by an electric guitar, and have a trumpeter added... and they are supposed to sound like the albums released in the 90s?

    Some DMB fans are just looking for a reason to complain or dislike whatever the band puts out. Understand that we are not getting another #41 or Stone or Dreaming Tree. If that's what you want, you should have stopped listening in 2000.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 05:22 PM   #68
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Disclaimer: This is all opinion. The Big 3 will never be touched and we as fans need to understand this. It is an elite pedistal in which the albums were the direct result of a great band wanting to write the bet music they could - with or without Lillywhite.

    Ok....

    Before the release, I had very, very high hopes for this album and admittedly because Lillywhite was back with the band. This was the first album I had taken the time to personally evaluate and critique because of those expectations. With all of the other albums, I just listened to them randomly over time and formulated opinions of songs for different reasons. After listening to AFTW a couple of times, something hadn't really "hit me". I don't think Dave's lyrics are his best, but I don't think they are his worst either. We all know Dave has changed gears when approaching lyrics; I think the people who can accept this will appreciate this album in the long run moreso than the ones who see his lyrics as imperative in making a great album. The production is amazing and the music arrangement is outstanding. Lillywhite lived up to his expectations in this department. The songs themselves, stripped away from Lillywhite, are MAYBE on the same level as the Big Whiskey songs. But that is what makes Lillywhite so great and serves as a testament to why he is so great. Lillywhite is the only producer the band has worked with who knows how to effectively capture the unique sound of each member. He can make the quietest sound the most powerful in any song and I applaud his efforts on this album. His sense of direction is incredible as well.

    With that said, I think Lillywhite did a fantastic job with what was handed to him (to paraphrase someone else in this thread). The reason the Big 3 is the "Big 3" is because the songs were great even without Lillywhite. The songs off of UTTAD and Crash were already fantastic before Lillywhite even had his hands on them. BTCS was a very dark album but filled with so many different emotions. It was the first time that DMB had gone into the studio without any older material to rely on. Listening to BTCS is unlike listening to any of the band's other albums. The production is fantastic, like UTTAD and Crash, but the music "awes" me everytime and that is not a producers work. It is the work of a committed band who collaborated so well with one another and dedicated themselves to finishing a great album - not a month and a half while recording at different times. The Lillywhite Sessions were headed in the same direction as the Big 3 but we all know what happened. There is defintely something about this era that sucked the life right out of this band but that is a completely different topic. The separation between the Big 3 and this Lillywhite album is the dedication the band had put forth. I welcome all of the criticism in the world for my opinions, but I will argue anyone who disputes that AFTW was a rushed album. When you have 7 members in a band and it only takes a month and a half to record all of the music with minimal collaboration in the studio, I will question the dedication all day. This is another thing that the community needs to accept as well if they want to continue enjoying this bands music. We know the potential is there to match UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS, it's just not going to happen though.

    I think AFTW is being forced by the community to be something its not. That is not a bad thing and I am not speaking poorly of AFTW. I think because "Lillywhite" is slapped onto the label, it is innevitably guilty of being great only by association. However, there is a lot to love about this album and I will continue to find more and more things about this album I truly enjoy.

    If we split DMB up into 3rds, we have 3 different eras:

    1. The Big 3 - R2T, UTTAD, Crash, BTCS, tLWS.
    2. The Middle Ages - Everyday, Busted Stuff, Stand Up.
    3. The Now - Big Whiskey, AFTW, .......

    The band is going backwards towards the Big 3, but with BW and AFTW, I prefer much more where they are headed now as opposed to 11 years ago.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #69
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
    Understand that we are not getting another #41 or Stone or Dreaming Tree. If that's what you want, you should have stopped listening in 2000.
    If you're referring to style, I completely agree. Bands and artists have to evolve, or they stagnate, plain and simple. DMB isn't the same band they were and 98 and it wouldn't be fair for me to expect them to be. Saying we shouldn't expect another #41 or The Stone stylistically is completely fair.

    But defending AFTW on the grounds that we shouldn't expect another #41 or The Stone in terms of QUALITY is a pretty bold statement--you'd be saying that the band's best work is behind them, and that they're simply not able to write music of that quality any more. And, really, you could make a case for that if you were so inclined (I am not). But that would make a lot of this AFTW praise seem pretty disingenuous and/or backhanded.

    For me personally, my issue with the new album isn't that the style is different--it's that the product isn't as good. I thought BW was a promising step in the right direction back to greatness, with a few great songs (albeit with some duds, too) that indicated a ton of promise and potential for DMB 2.0. This album is, in my opinion, a great-sounding record of generally uninspired songs that doesn't really add anything exciting to the catalog. I'm fine with the style, but quality-wise, I'm just calling it like I see it. It's not a complete turd like ED or SU, but the fact that people are as excited about it as they are really perplexes me. I am still hopeful for the future because there are handful of tunes on Big Whiskey that I like as much as anything else they've ever done, and if they're back to working with Lillywhite, that's only going to help.

    Stylistic evolution isn't the same as--and isn't an excuse for--a mediocre product.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 05:54 PM   #70
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lalkb48 View Post
    I don't think Dave's lyrics are his best, but I don't think they are his worst either. We all know Dave has changed gears when approaching lyrics; I think the people who can accept this will appreciate this album in the long run moreso than the ones who see his lyrics as imperative in making a great album. The production is amazing and the music arrangement is outstanding. Lillywhite lived up to his expectations in this department. The songs themselves, stripped away from Lillywhite, are MAYBE on the same level as the Big Whiskey songs. But that is what makes Lillywhite so great and serves as a testament to why he is so great. Lillywhite is the only producer the band has worked with who knows how to effectively capture the unique sound of each member. He can make the quietest sound the most powerful in any song and I applaud his efforts on this album. His sense of direction is incredible as well.

    With that said, I think Lillywhite did a fantastic job with what was handed to him (to paraphrase someone else in this thread). The reason the Big 3 is the "Big 3" is because the songs were great even without Lillywhite. The songs off of UTTAD and Crash were already fantastic before Lillywhite even had his hands on them. BTCS was a very dark album but filled with so many different emotions. It was the first time that DMB had gone into the studio without any older material to rely on. Listening to BTCS is unlike listening to any of the band's other albums. The production is fantastic, like UTTAD and Crash, but the music "awes" me everytime and that is not a producers work. It is the work of a committed band who collaborated so well with one another and dedicated themselves to finishing a great album - not a month and a half while recording at different times. The Lillywhite Sessions were headed in the same direction as the Big 3 but we all know what happened. There is defintely something about this era that sucked the life right out of this band but that is a completely different topic. The separation between the Big 3 and this Lillywhite album is the dedication the band had put forth. I welcome all of the criticism in the world for my opinions, but I will argue anyone who disputes that AFTW was a rushed album. When you have 7 members in a band and it only takes a month and a half to record all of the music with minimal collaboration in the studio, I will question the dedication all day. This is another thing that the community needs to accept as well if they want to continue enjoying this bands music. We know the potential is there to match UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS, it's just not going to happen though.

    I think AFTW is being forced by the community to be something its not. That is not a bad thing and I am not speaking poorly of AFTW. I think because "Lillywhite" is slapped onto the label, it is innevitably guilty of being great only by association. However, there is a lot to love about this album and I will continue to find more and more things about this album I truly enjoy.

    If we split DMB up into 3rds, we have 3 different eras:

    1. The Big 3 - R2T, UTTAD, Crash, BTCS, tLWS.
    2. The Middle Ages - Everyday, Busted Stuff, Stand Up.
    3. The Now - Big Whiskey, AFTW, .......

    The band is going backwards towards the Big 3, but with BW and AFTW, I prefer much more where they are headed now as opposed to 11 years ago.
    I agree with your post, but ESPECIALLY with the bolded sections. I hadn't even considered that it only took them 6 weeks to record this album (Oddly enough, I think Everyday took about the same amount of time). There are enough interesting ideas in there that I can't help but wonder what another 4-6 weeks would have done for the quality of these songs.

    I also agree about the lyrics not being his WORST. My issue with the lyrics on this album is that they're often uninspired and unimaginative, especially in the choruses--which is where it hurts the songs the most. The choruses to "Broken Things" and "Drunken Soldier" come immediately to mind. However they aren't as laughably terribly ridiculously bad as, say "Angel" or "Dreamgirl." It's not that the lyrics are BAD, and it's not that there aren't a few good ones in there--it's just they aren't generally very GOOD where it counts.

    Great points all around!
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    Old 10-10-2012, 07:22 PM   #71
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    i think its a good album because of steve lillywhite.

    its not big 3. i havent witnessed too many put it on that level. for now ill say its rated just fine. im just happy its so much better than BW.
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    Old 10-10-2012, 10:07 PM   #72
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    i think its over rated because of lillywhite, absolutely

    i also think its a very, very good album. i think what lillywhite did better than the other producers is utilize boyd. other than that, producers make suggestions. its up to the band to go with them or not. BWGK had some of the best-produced songs in the history of DMB (shake me and lithog), and if you think otherwise, you're prob stuck in 1998

    this IS the best album since BTCS imo, but its still over rated simply because of lillywhite
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    Old 10-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #73
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

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    i think its a good album because of steve lillywhite.

    its not big 3. i havent witnessed too many put it on that level. for now ill say its rated just fine. im just happy its so much better than BW.
    it is miles better than big whiskey...i really dont understand the people that think BW is better...but thats fine
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    Old 10-10-2012, 11:28 PM   #74
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kshathra View Post
    I agree with your post, but ESPECIALLY with the bolded sections. I hadn't even considered that it only took them 6 weeks to record this album (Oddly enough, I think Everyday took about the same amount of time). There are enough interesting ideas in there that I can't help but wonder what another 4-6 weeks would have done for the quality of these songs.

    I also agree about the lyrics not being his WORST. My issue with the lyrics on this album is that they're often uninspired and unimaginative, especially in the choruses--which is where it hurts the songs the most. The choruses to "Broken Things" and "Drunken Soldier" come immediately to mind. However they aren't as laughably terribly ridiculously bad as, say "Angel" or "Dreamgirl." It's not that the lyrics are BAD, and it's not that there aren't a few good ones in there--it's just they aren't generally very GOOD where it counts.

    Great points all around!
    Choruses are bar far the biggest weak spot on this album
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    Old 10-11-2012, 03:52 AM   #75
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Broken Things has one of the best choruses that Dave has ever written. His vocals on that are amazing.
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    Old 10-11-2012, 05:53 AM   #76
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
    You're crazy.

    Everyday, Busted Stuff, Stand Up, Big Whisky, and Away from the World are FIVE albums over the span of 12 years with FIVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SOUNDS.

    So what band HAVE you been listening to the past 17 years?

    ... and another thing. Do you expect a band to grow up for 20 years, have a member pass away and be replaced by someone else, have a piano replaced by an electric guitar, and have a trumpeter added... and they are supposed to sound like the albums released in the 90s?

    Some DMB fans are just looking for a reason to complain or dislike whatever the band puts out. Understand that we are not getting another #41 or Stone or Dreaming Tree. If that's what you want, you should have stopped listening in 2000.
    I'm expressing my opinion. "Crazy" as it might be, last time I looked this is a forum for discussion, and that means you're going to get the negatives as well as all the gushing "this is the bestest album EVAH" positive responses.

    As to what I've been listening to, it's obviously not the same album some of you are.
    So I don't like it, and I have the temerity to actually state that, so I get blasted for it? OK, I can live with that...

    FWIW, I am a big Dave Matthews fan - so much so, I count one of THE best evenings I have spent in my 50 + years as the evening in the Maida Vale studio in London, sat on the floor five feet away from Dave as he performed for less than a hundred people. I have listened to their music since '95 and have all their studio albums and some live ones. I've been lucky enough to catch them live in the UK when they deem to visit us.
    Sure, the death of Leroi was a bad time for the band and I miss his playing. No argument there.

    I fully agree that the bands sound has evolved over the years, and I'm sure if you trawl back through previous album specific threads here, you'll get similar responses about all the albums you mention. "Big Whisky" isn't one of my favourites if I'm honest but I play it. But forgive me if I feel that this album isn't the best - it has one or two reasonable tracks and if it was a Dave solo then I'd probably be a little more forgiving but for a DMB album? Sorry, not for me - no doubt it will get some more plays if I do a shuffle of DMB albums, but I won't be searching it out specifically if I want to listen to the band...

    Just my two pence worth...
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    Old 10-11-2012, 09:54 AM   #77
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I'm expressing my opinion. "Crazy" as it might be, last time I looked this is a forum for discussion, and that means you're going to get the negatives as well as all the gushing "this is the bestest album EVAH" positive responses.

    As to what I've been listening to, it's obviously not the same album some of you are.
    So I don't like it, and I have the temerity to actually state that, so I get blasted for it? OK, I can live with that...

    FWIW, I am a big Dave Matthews fan - so much so, I count one of THE best evenings I have spent in my 50 + years as the evening in the Maida Vale studio in London, sat on the floor five feet away from Dave as he performed for less than a hundred people. I have listened to their music since '95 and have all their studio albums and some live ones. I've been lucky enough to catch them live in the UK when they deem to visit us.
    Sure, the death of Leroi was a bad time for the band and I miss his playing. No argument there.

    I fully agree that the bands sound has evolved over the years, and I'm sure if you trawl back through previous album specific threads here, you'll get similar responses about all the albums you mention. "Big Whisky" isn't one of my favourites if I'm honest but I play it. But forgive me if I feel that this album isn't the best - it has one or two reasonable tracks and if it was a Dave solo then I'd probably be a little more forgiving but for a DMB album? Sorry, not for me - no doubt it will get some more plays if I do a shuffle of DMB albums, but I won't be searching it out specifically if I want to listen to the band...

    Just my two pence worth...
    Sorry for coming off a little harsh. I just hate to see people be too critical. Here's my point with you though... You're not impressed with this album. You say Big Whisky wasn't your favorite. If you say Stand Up was a good album then I honestly don't think I can talk to you anymore... Then there's Busted Stuff from 2002. I'm not sure how you feel about that album... but if you liked it, then the band hasn't released an album that you loved in 10 years.

    If you DIDN'T like Busted Stuff, then they haven't released an album you like in 12-14 years. In that case is where I don't understand how people can still be dedicated fans and be this involved (msg boards and such).

    Dave's lyrics were very dark at a young age. There were songs about drugs, death, failed love, people close to him dying, and the list goes on. Dave was pretty good about it too. After a certain point however you can only write so much about a certain topic. The band has become a superpower in the music industry, Dave has a solid family life, and things seem to be going pretty well. We learned in the Hello Again documentary that he's not going to pretend. He won't play songs if he's not feeling them just as he's not going to try to write lyrics that don't mean anything to him. You can tell what is important to him. In 2005 for Stand Up, it was politics. That blew up in his face because those lyrics (in my opinion) are the worst he's ever written. Smooth Rider, Everybody Wake Up, Stand Up, American Baby, and so on are just terrible musicly. Big Whisky and Away From the World are about love and good old fashion dirty sex. That's what Dave is into right now because I'm guessing life is going pretty good. The darkest song on Away From the World is The Riff. He's been trying to write that song for almost 10 years so it has some of his old ideals in there. Right now it's love, peace, and the environment.

    I know this is long and you're probably not going to read it... but my whole point is that we have to try to get out of our minds that DMB's work from 1991-2002 is still in the front of Dave's mind. I write and play music and I have a hard time revisiting work from my depressed days in high school and college. I was going through a rough time with the death of my mother when I was 22 and failed relationships and so on that I wrote some pretty dark shit. Right now, I have a good job, a nice home with my amazing lady, and when I pick up my guitar to write or play a gig and so on, I have a hard time with my older work because it's simply not how I feel anymore. People in the DMB community are pining for the earlier work to be re-created but it's not going to happen. The first step in enjoying the Big Whisky/AFTW DMB is coming to terms that this is a new band with a new modern style and a frontman who sees the world differently.

    Anyway... hope this helps you understand my point of view.
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    Old 10-11-2012, 10:35 AM   #78
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Definitely.
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    Old 10-11-2012, 10:42 AM   #79
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Definitely.
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    Old 10-11-2012, 10:47 AM   #80
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by njdevil26
    Sorry for coming off a little harsh. I just hate to see people be too critical....

    Anyway... hope this helps you understand my point of view.
    I fully understand the logic behind your thinking - I actually like Busted Stuff and Stand Up - I hope that won't send me into your ignore list! I actually liked Everyday as well.

    It's how an album grabs me straight out of the packaging - it's a gut level thing and not peculiar to this album. There are plenty of bands that I might have a huge back catalogue of, and when their latest album hits the mat, I find myself being disappointed with it. Whether they have 'sold out' to expand their popularity or have just run out of new ideas I know not why.

    I will, having read your post above, revisit AFTW and give it a few more plays. I like DMB enough to give them another chance (actually doing that right now as I type - how's that!)

    You cannot deny that the directions that this band have gone previous to this album has produced some pretty extreme (re)views amongst this forum and others.

    "I don't understand how people can still be dedicated fans and be this involved (msg boards and such)."

    I think it is important that a forum should have "dedicated fans" which includes a healthy mix of the 'diehard-do-no-wrong' and the 'old-school-luddites' - healthy criticism is not a bad thing. It's not like I said the album sucks big time or railed against the band like many people, who don't like DM or the DMB, do...

    But, to quote that oft used adage, one mans meat is another's poison and musical tastes vary widely. One of the great things about DMB that hooked me was their unique ability to meld so many differing genres of music into a pretty unique sound to my old ears.

    Anyway, I'll let you know if I become any fonder of AFTW...

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    Old 10-11-2012, 11:39 AM   #81
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    "I don't understand how people can still be dedicated fans and be this involved (msg boards and such)."

    I think it is important that a forum should have "dedicated fans" which includes a healthy mix of the 'diehard-do-no-wrong' and the 'old-school-luddites' - healthy criticism is not a bad thing. It's not like I said the album sucks big time or railed against the band like many people, who don't like DM or the DMB, do...

    What I meant by that is that there are members on this board that have said pretty much everything that's after 1998 just sucks. That's starting to be a long time ago and those people should just try to get outside for once and see the sun.

    Anyway... we'll never agree on Stand Up. When they released the clip of the song Stand Up it was the first thing I heard for the album and I honestly and legitimately thought it was a joke. That they were just keeping the album under wraps and were making a joke to the fans. That's how bad the album is haha.
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    Old 10-11-2012, 11:47 AM   #82
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    There is a lot of "want", but no the album actually is that good.
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    Old 10-12-2012, 10:16 AM   #83
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post

    If you DIDN'T like Busted Stuff, then they haven't released an album you like in 12-14 years. In that case is where I don't understand how people can still be dedicated fans and be this involved (msg boards and such).
    Mostly for this reason - despite Everyday and Stand Up being bad albums, the songs were awesome at best, decent at worst live. B-Sides were still great songs. This band is a live band at heart, not a studio band.

    I love their studio work, and I am a big fan of both BWGK and AFTW. Not Big 3 level, but just under. However, the live performances is what has really kept me so obsessed with this band, especially in the 2005-2008 range. Being from Texas, I hit up 11 shows in those 4 years, traveling to New Orleans, Vegas, and St Louis to see them. That's not something I'd do for just any band.
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    Old 10-13-2012, 11:23 AM   #84
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jiggajm18 View Post
    have you listened to gaucho or rooftop? tim is obnoxious

    (i'm a tim fan......)
    I can tolerate him on those songs. I have to turn off the Riff at about 3 1/2 minutes.
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    Old 10-13-2012, 11:29 AM   #85
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by splack03;14030650[B
    ]If your first thought of why AFTW is better than BW is because it includes Boyd more[/B], I think you are missing the theme of the complaints around here. Yes, all else being equal, more Boyd is better than less, and I agree Lillywhite has a good track record of including Boyd. However, no offense to Boyd, but his inclusion in songs is not what makes a song good, but rather I would argue is an ancillary piece that enhances a song. It's why 90%+ of DMB's songs can be played D&T and still sound great. The people (like myself) who believe that in whole, the BW songs are stronger understand that Boyd doesn't have a large role in those songs, but nevertheless recognize that the melodies and the lyrics are strong enough to compensate for Boyd's absence.
    No, it's no just mroe of Boyd, I just think the songs are just better. This album sounds more like DMB to me and that's the main reason.
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    Old 10-13-2012, 11:35 AM   #86
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    People around her so damn "big 3" obsessed? Every other post is about the "big 3"....so damn annoying! This is a good record and I have no desire to compare it those almums. I enjoy AFTW for what it is and leave the freakin' past alone.
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    Old 10-13-2012, 12:55 PM   #87
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    The only thing I get from this thread is everyone has a unique view of what the Dave Matthews Band should be. Unfortunately that's a narrow minded view of things and it limits people's perception of the quality of this album. There was a point in time where I never thought the band could write anything like broken things, the riff, rooftop, snow outside or drunken soldier again... so as a fan, I'm happy with this album. i don't compare to the big 3, I don't hate electric guitars, I don't have thoughts on what they should do or wish for the next #41 (which btw there are plenty of songs musically superior to 41 on this album)

    I'm at the point with this band where i'm more in interested in what the band does not what dave does. Most people around here do not realize the sheer level of talent in this band and it's pathetic. This album is the best attempt at capturing the talent in this band in a decade. I can look away from thing like 7 of 11 songs being about love, weak choruses etc since the music is profound and unique. I see the riff and go wow that's a prog rock gem instead of eww too much electric guitar. I see Drunken soldier and go wow that's a sweet attempt at something different with standard Dave sieze the day lyrics (not far removed from the two step we all love) instead of saying, well i would have preferred it to end in a raging flute jam.

    I said it after big whiskey and I'll say it again, this band is in a good spot right now, we will see an album better than this one
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    Old 10-13-2012, 03:29 PM   #88
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ProphetofJit View Post
    Ugh, if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

    No need to try and convince me with the onslaught of negativity that I shouldn't like it.

    I love this album, it's a feel good album, and I smile every time I listen to it.

    And no it's not over hyped, because it's a fantastic album.
    You're far from alone in that sentiment.

    On the other hand, I can understand how people still miss the 90's era albums. The songs on ATFW are more coherent in their sonic palette--whereas albums like Crash and BTCS were really all over the board from one song to the next, sometimes not even sounding like the same band. Those albums were also infused with the energy of several guys still in their 20's/early 30's. And whatever Dave enjoyed smoking at the time.

    This isn't that band anymore. One member was lost, replaced by two new ones. Everyone is older, everyone has matured to some extent. They have their own families and lives. It's just not going to generate the same thing. And I don't write this as an apologist, because I think AFTW is a freaking great album. It's beautiful. But it's the beauty of a new incarnation, not a repeat of the old.

    And that's hard for some people to take. Hence, negativity abounds.
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    Old 10-14-2012, 07:37 AM   #89
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Guys, this album is actually the best 'produced' DMB album there is. Lillywhite absolutely fucking killed it. It is so clear, well balanced, ambient and layered. The boys also can't reproduce it live anywhere near as good yet. When has that EVER happened with a dmb album? The big 3, most songs are far better live and not captured at their best in the studio. Sure not all the songs are great on AFTW. Some are awesome. But the actual production is totally amazing. Love it. Song quality is not as good as the big 3 overall but the production really brings this album into the lillywhite group and It can happily sit with the better albums and not be too far out of place.

    Last edited by KillerBunny; 10-14-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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    Old 10-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #90
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    Re: AFTW overrated because of Lillywhite?

    Each producer has there own style. LW brings out all the nuances in this band.

    I dont get it, people spend 3 years bellaching about BW then we are given some DMB gold and people still bitch...mind boggling I say!
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