Why Cornbread Is Lyrically Better Than Dreaming Tree

[efraser77]

Originally Posted by JohnK86

So you think that all pieces of music have the same intention and should be evaluated under identical premises?

No. But we are talking about evaluating lyrics, not a song's purpose.

Let's stop talking about Corn Bread for a minute and focus on SMLAM. Dave has said it's got throwaway lyrics but is just supposed to get your ass shaking. In that purpose, it works great. But that does not in any way make its lyrics better than Dreaming Tree's.

[MGH4007]

lyrically and musically, corn bread is a pathetic knock off hillbilly music.

[mattyszow]

i respectfully disagree. compliments on a well thought out argument tho.

[ShakingMonkey]

You are so right.

The problem is, there is a massive chunk of people who can't and won't view the music the way you just did.

And to all you people who think "progress takes away what forever took to find" is the best line in Dave's repertoire: please stop elevating it so high. It's a great line by itself, but in the grand scheme of Dreaming Tree it's like one great line thrown into a mediocre pile of words that have a very cool, new-agey feel to them at best. I love the song a lot, I just apparently don't see the benefit in placing Dreaming Tree on a lyrical pedestal.

I'm not bashing Dreaming Tree, honestly. It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse. Why not just realistically evaluate each song according to what it was trying to accomplish? That way you give everything a clean chance.

[farqy]

Both Dreaming Tree and Cornbread are good for different reasons, and can't really be compared. But it's an interesting take if they were to be compared.

[YankeesDMB41]

Originally Posted by ShakingMonkey

You are so right.

The problem is, there is a massive chunk of people who can't and won't view the music the way you or I would.

And to all you people who think "progress takes away what forever took to find" is the best line in Dave's repertoire: please stop elevating it so high. It's a great line by itself, but in the grand scheme of Dreaming Tree it's like one great line thrown into a mediocre pile of words that have a very cool, new-agey feel to them at best. I love the song a lot, I just apparently don't see the benefit in placing Dreaming Tree on a lyrical pedestal.

I'm not bashing Dreaming Tree, honestly. It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse. Why not just realistically evaluate each song according to what it was trying to accomplish? That way you give everything a clean chance.

I'll Take Random Everyday reference for 1200 Alex

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by brew10

I respect your opinion, however I feel you could not be further from the truth. The Dreaming Tree is one of the most amazing songs lyrically, musically, emotionally, and spiritually that has ever been written. By any recording artist. I say this as a person who likes to hear the song Cornbread at a show (not every show mind you. It is wayyyyy to overplayed). I think some of Cornbreads lyrics have been good. (It's all inside your soul you're beautiful, all the innocence that you inspire is a good line) but recently the song is just about eatin' pussy and getting your dick sucked. Which is fine. I love Rapunzel.

You're right. Cornbread is a "barnburning, bitchslapping jubilee" however that doesn't make it a better song than TDT in any way shape or form. If you think Cornbread's lyrics are better than the dreaming tree, but feel that neither represent DMB at their best, I would like to ask what you feel is DMB at their lyrical best. And musical best just for fun.

IMO, Spoon, Bartender and Warehouse are lyrically DMB´s best. Musically, these aforementioned are amongst the best, but I´d also like to add Seek Up, Proudest Monkey, The Last Stop and DDTW to the list. Hell, even Nancies and jimi Thing could be mentioned. Damn, there´s too many...

[YouNeverKnow25]

Your logic detracts points from DT because rhymes are obvious, repetitive, and easy/clumsy. Yet you fail to recognize that CB is basically one verse "Dance with the devil round a fire..." repeated several times, "all inside your head" and the infamous "all I wanna do..." line repeated ad nauseum.

[Snapple2788]

Cornbread brings mad Enhergieeezzzzzzzz, while Dreaming Tree I can get the same feeling listening to it in my car as hearing it live. Therefore Cornbread gets the live go ahead for me. Not that this really pertained to exactly what the OP said I think it has some value. Regardless, good post OP.

[efraser77]

Originally Posted by ShakingMonkey

You are so right.

The problem is, there is a massive chunk of people who can't and won't view the music the way you or I would.

And to all you people who think "progress takes away what forever took to find" is the best line in Dave's repertoire: please stop elevating it so high. It's a great line by itself, but in the grand scheme of Dreaming Tree it's like one great line thrown into a mediocre pile of words that have a very cool, new-agey feel to them at best. I love the song a lot, I just apparently don't see the benefit in placing Dreaming Tree on a lyrical pedestal.

I'm not bashing Dreaming Tree, honestly. It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse. Why not just realistically evaluate each song according to what it was trying to accomplish? That way you give everything a clean chance.

First, don't say "can't or won't". It's not that I'm refusing to see things how the OP does. I just don't.

Second, that line is the best line in a song full of great lines. Don't know what you're talking about with this mediocre pile of words stuff.

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by ShakingMonkey

You are so right.

The problem is, there is a massive chunk of people who can't and won't view the music the way you just did.

And to all you people who think "progress takes away what forever took to find" is the best line in Dave's repertoire: please stop elevating it so high. It's a great line by itself, but in the grand scheme of Dreaming Tree it's like one great line thrown into a mediocre pile of words that have a very cool, new-agey feel to them at best. I love the song a lot, I just apparently don't see the benefit in placing Dreaming Tree on a lyrical pedestal.

I'm not bashing Dreaming Tree, honestly. It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse. Why not just realistically evaluate each song according to what it was trying to accomplish? That way you give everything a clean chance.

Did you just agree with me? My mind is blown.

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by efraser77

No. But we are talking about evaluating lyrics, not a song's purpose.

Let's stop talking about Corn Bread for a minute and focus on SMLAM. Dave has said it's got throwaway lyrics but is just supposed to get your ass shaking. In that purpose, it works great. But that does not in any way make its lyrics better than Dreaming Tree's.

How are they not connected?

[YouNeverKnow25]

Originally Posted by ShakingMonkey

It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse.

The blindness to irony here is hilarious. The reason that you think cornbread is anywhere in the same breath as dreaming tree is because you are vastly overrating it.

[ShakingMonkey]

Originally Posted by ShakingMonkey

You are so right.

The problem is, there is a massive chunk of people who can't and won't view the music the way you just did.

And to all you people who think "progress takes away what forever took to find" is the best line in Dave's repertoire: please stop elevating it so high. It's a great line by itself, but in the grand scheme of Dreaming Tree it's like one great line thrown into a mediocre pile of words that have a very cool, new-agey feel to them at best. I love the song a lot, I just apparently don't see the benefit in placing Dreaming Tree on a lyrical pedestal.

I'm not bashing Dreaming Tree, honestly. It's just foolish to overrate anything IMO. It makes everything else appear a lot worse. Why not just realistically evaluate each song according to what it was trying to accomplish? That way you give everything a clean chance.

The funny thing about that is I noticed it as I typed it. Silly me

[TheStone52]

Corn Bread is sweet ass but the Dreaming Tree is top 5 lyrically for me

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

Your logic detracts points from DT because rhymes are obvious, repetitive, and easy/clumsy. Yet you fail to recognize that CB is basically one verse "Dance with the devil round a fire..." repeated several times, "all inside your head" and the infamous "all I wanna do..." line repeated ad nauseum.

Repeating lines and repeating rhymes is not the same thing. However, if you read my post more carefully, I actually wasn´t accusing DT´s lyrics of that. My point was quite different.

[songthatCAlikes]

i wanted so much to flame you after reading the thread title, but after reading your rationale, i think somewhere among that you made a decent point. I disagree, DT as a whole is better, but your idea of judging a song based on its intent has some merit for choosing cornbread.

[CuppingTheSky]

The entire post by the OP is a complete abortion of vomited bullshit that would only ever have the air of education and distinction to someone entirely uneducated in the field.

[dmbnut21]

OP... you really should have taken this debate into an english/music theory class, it would have been interesting to watch/listen to... instead you took it into Ants where the Big 3/4/5 rule all and putting a song from one of them against a song that Batson helped create is kind of like the equivalent of watching the end of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. I feel for you. You seem to have strong opinions for the most part and it was an interesting read. I really personally enjoy Dreaming Tree more but to each their own.

I will say this, I think most people like DT more then CB becuase of one reason, CB was written from the perspective of a 16-18 year old who is getting/giving oral sex in random places like 16-18 year olds do. DT was written about a person searching through his life and looking back at what he lost. Since most of us are always searching back and not thinking about the time we got head in a shed the song hits closer to home for most. Musically, the songs are way to different to compare one is slow and the other is fast both strike way different emotions.

On a side note, don't let MistreatedLewis get to you and make you write a thesis comparing two Dave songs.

[PhishSticks40]

I stopped reading after I read the thread title...

[efraser77]

Originally Posted by JohnK86

How are they not connected?

I just illustrated how, with SMLAM. Horribly cheesy lyrics, "throwaway lyrics" in the words of the man who penned them. But it succeeds in getting asses moving. Not sure how much more clearly I can make my argument.

[ShakingMonkey]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

The blindness to irony here is hilarious. The reason that you think cornbread is anywhere in the same breath as dreaming tree is because you are vastly overrating it.

Notice I didn't say anything about Cornbread in my original post though. I actually don't think it's an AWESOME song lyrically. It just don't think Dreaming Tree is particularly as awesome as it's often made out to be.

[Bafugama]

Originally Posted by Number85

Very good post, OP, and I appreciate where you are coming from. But I just can't agree.

Appreciate what he's doing here is a good way of putting it. I don't agree with the OP, but I do definitly like the way he laid it all out.

[pats4life2003]

good layout


terrible opinion

[YouNeverKnow25]

Originally Posted by JohnK86

Repeating lines and repeating rhymes is not the same thing. However, if you read my post more carefully, I actually wasn´t accusing DT´s lyrics of that. My point was quite different.

Oh, I read the post quite carefully. And I fully understood your point. As a sidenote, I have no idea what is accomplished by pointing out that repeating lines and repeating rhymes are not the same thing, especially coming from someone whose argument holds that CB is better lyrically. Which is worse, repeating a word at the end of a line that rhymes it with other lines (part of your argument about dreaming tree), or repeating entire lines/stanzas/verses (CB)?

[vikes989]

Originally Posted by CuppingTheSky

The entire post by the OP is a complete abortion of vomited bullshit that would only ever have the air of education and distinction to someone entirely uneducated in the field.

sweet first post, brah

[efraser77]

Originally Posted by Bafugama

Appreciate what he's doing here is a good way of putting it. I don't agree with the OP, but I do definitly like the way he laid it all out.

He laid it out OK, but where I think it falters is that he keeps stressing that it's better *lyrically*. If you feel Cornbread as a whole is "better" because it has succeeded to a higher degree in its purpose, I'll disagree but respect the opinion. But looking just at lyrics, I don't know how one can possibly say Cornbread has better ones.

[Trendall]

So, to summarise your post after skimming through, The Dreaming Tree is an epic piece of music, but the lyrics aren't as epic as the music. Cornbread's music is shit, and the lyrics are equally as shit. Because Cornbread's lyrics match up to the music in terms of quality more, Cornbread has better lyrics.

Really?

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by efraser77

I just illustrated how, with SMLAM. Horribly cheesy lyrics, "throwaway lyrics" in the words of the man who penned them. But it succeeds in getting asses moving. Not sure how much more clearly I can make my argument.

What? You just proved MY argument! We´re clearly not talking the same language right now...I mean the intent was to get ass shaking, it does, even you agree. That is exactly what I was talking about. Unless you think that the lyrics do not contribute to the ass shaking, I don´t get what you are saying.

[JohnK86]

Originally Posted by Trendall

So, to summarise your post after skimming through, The Dreaming Tree is an epic piece of music, but the lyrics aren't as epic as the music. Cornbread's music is shit, and the lyrics are equally as shit. Because Cornbread's lyrics match up to the music in terms of quality more, Cornbread has better lyrics.

Really?

No. Cornbread´s music is far from shit.