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Old 10-10-2019, 07:53 AM   #121
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Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMilberg View Post
Is management's objective to release shows that maximize revenue or to release shows that make fans happy?

The latter is extremely difficult to do because, while we think the shows that we like best are the ones that other fans also think are best, EVERYONE's opinion is very different. Read any thread about what the next LiveTrax should be and you'll see that. So even if their goal is to release the "best" shows, with no concern for profit, every time they release a show, the majority of fans will say "They should have released XXXX/XX/XX instead."

But, being a company, it's far more likely that their primary concern is releasing shows that are profitable, and management sees the sales figures for each release. We don't.

They have 20 years' experience with what the DMB community buys and how to maximize revenue.

Of course, there will be times when the band (or Dave) overrules their suggestions and a show that is expected to maximize revenue* doesn't get released, and something else does get released, but to claim that the people with access to sales data are worse at picking releases than people with no sales data, is asinine.

I know we're all annoyed that we've gotten so many 2018 shows recently but it's reasonable to assume the sales model has told management it will be a profitable release.
Finally someone thinking practically. DMB's management has somehow managed to keep the band in business for 25+ years through dozens of live show releases. I'm sure they know what they are doing by now.
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  • Old 10-10-2019, 08:02 AM   #122
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    Finally someone thinking practically. DMB's management has somehow managed to keep the band in business for 25+ years through dozens of live show releases. I'm sure they know what they are doing by now.
    But if we're thinking practically about this, and assuming the goal is profit maximization, how does this release achieve that?

    Relatively niche format, high price point, low demand, limited retail locations, etc.

    For the bold, that seems like a huge logical leap. Longevity =/= marketing success in the case of a predominant live act. Their live shows have been the driving machine behind this, and as those live shows have faltered, so have their ticket sales.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 08:30 AM   #123
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by greenpeace41 View Post
    Not really interested in this one but if they decide to release that limited edition 45 of Dave taking a shit I'd like to be first on the ISO list please. Especially if it has the rumored scratch n sniff sleeve.

    I'd actually like 2 so I can keep one sealed and sniff the other.
    with That Girl Is You on the B-side!
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    Old 10-10-2019, 08:37 AM   #124
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Madnana View Post
    with That Girl Is You on the B-side!
    They're going to put the same song on both sides?
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    Old 10-10-2019, 09:02 AM   #125
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    But if we're thinking practically about this, and assuming the goal is profit maximization, how does this release achieve that?

    Relatively niche format, high price point, low demand, limited retail locations, etc.

    For the bold, that seems like a huge logical leap. Longevity =/= marketing success in the case of a predominant live act. Their live shows have been the driving machine behind this, and as those live shows have faltered, so have their ticket sales.
    You're assuming you understand the entirety of DMB's market base when you only anecdotally know about a very small group of fans (those on this specific forum and perhaps some niche vinyl collector forums). My point is that DMB has much more knowledge about their fan base than we do.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 11:34 AM   #126
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511308...usive-ltd-5500

    List price is $125 at Bullmoose, which is usually on the low end of stores on RSD.

    Hard pass. This is a fucking joke
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    Old 10-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #127
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511308...usive-ltd-5500

    List price is $125 at Bullmoose, which is usually on the low end of stores on RSD.

    Hard pass. This is a fucking joke
    Yeeeeeesh. There's maybe only a handful of shows I might consider paying that much for on vinyl... and this one certainly ain't it.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 11:42 AM   #128
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    Yeeeeeesh. There's maybe only a handful of shows I might consider paying that much for on vinyl... and this one certainly ain't it.
    I have every DMB release on vinyl, and all variations - color/black LTs/RR95/Luther, white/black DMBLives, all 3 Come Tomorrow variants, Europe '09 Splatter/Black Crash, Mispress/Corrected UTTAD, R2T, Recently, '98 BTCS, DDTW 12", She/Again & Again 7", Mercy/Gaucho 7", FTWII/#27 7", Vegas 7", Space Between/I Did It 7", Too Much 7"....I think I named them all

    I will not pay $125 for this trash release. Completionism be damned
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    Old 10-10-2019, 11:54 AM   #129
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511308...usive-ltd-5500

    List price is $125 at Bullmoose, which is usually on the low end of stores on RSD.

    Hard pass. This is a fucking joke
    Maybe it's right, but that just seems hard to believe. I can't think of any reason that would justify this price.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 11:58 AM   #130
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    Maybe it's right, but that just seems hard to believe. I can't think of any reason that would justify this price.
    Bullmoose doesn't list the price if they don't plan to sell at that price. Look at every other price for RSD titles on their site. They're spot on. Phish at $47.98, usually they sell for $49.99 once they hit DryGoods; Bullmoose discounts a bit because they're a big NE retailer. Bullmoose is one of the best regional chains and online music retailers. It isn't wrong. That's probably lower than what most stores will charge. $130-$150 isn't out of the question now.

    It's a trainwreck no matter which way you look at it.
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    Last edited by BTBaboon; 10-10-2019 at 12:01 PM.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:08 PM   #131
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511308...usive-ltd-5500

    List price is $125 at Bullmoose, which is usually on the low end of stores on RSD.

    Hard pass. This is a fucking joke
    That is... a mind-boggling price. Maybe orchestra royalties?
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:12 PM   #132
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubaguy1145 View Post
    That is... a mind-boggling price. Maybe orchestra royalties?
    Could be venue royalties maybe? Still, how could they expect to charge that much for any release? Even $75 is very high, but not completely unreasonable. $125 is just stupid.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #133
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Any idea why Bullmoose says the edition size is 5500, but the RSD site only says 4000?
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:14 PM   #134
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511308...usive-ltd-5500

    List price is $125 at Bullmoose, which is usually on the low end of stores on RSD.

    Hard pass. This is a fucking joke
    Dear god

    I expected 75-100
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:18 PM   #135
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benny003 View Post
    Any idea why Bullmoose says the edition size is 5500, but the RSD site only says 4000?
    Hype sticker, probably, or seeing jackets stamped above 4k.

    Wouldn't be surprised if RSD site is wrong. When RR95 came out, that was initially listed as 2,500: https://recordstoreday.com/SpecialRelease/9519

    But when release day came, the press count was way higher - people reported numbers above 3,500; which is more than just excess jackets for defects.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:20 PM   #136
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    $125? Huh?

    They cant think thats a good price point to move a lot of these, can they?
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:24 PM   #137
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Hype sticker, probably, or seeing jackets stamped above 4k.

    Wouldn't be surprised if RSD site is wrong. When RR95 came out, that was initially listed as 2,500: https://recordstoreday.com/SpecialRelease/9519

    But when release day came, the press count was way higher - people reported numbers above 3,500; which is more than just excess jackets for defects.
    I will add to this that it makes the idea of a second vinyl release less likely. The RSD version may be the only version, and the "First" may just imply that a CD/digital version will come later.

    Wouldn't be surprised if Hollywood Bowl is the Holiday 2019 release
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:26 PM   #138
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    $125? Huh?

    They cant think thats a good price point to move a lot of these, can they?
    Maybe they don't know what they're doing!

    The Phish release looks dope, though. It's colored vinyl after all (Bellman remastered from flat source files, plus a Pollock print): https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511281...usive-ltd-8000

    Also, there's a second DMB-related thing we missed: https://www.bullmoose.com/p/32511274...usive-ltd-1500

    WTWE (Remix) is on that soundtrack
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:28 PM   #139
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Is there an image of the pollock print? I follow him and didnt see anything posted about it. Saw dry goods post an image of the splatter yesterday, looks nice.
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    You hit some nerves because some people rely on logic and facts.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:31 PM   #140
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    Is there an image of the pollock print? I follow him and didnt see anything posted about it. Saw dry goods post an image of the splatter yesterday, looks nice.
    Not that I can find. Bullmoose just has the following blurb:

    Quote:
    Each deluxe gatefold vinyl set will include 1 0f 2 LE prints by Jim Pollock and MP3 download transferred from vinyl.
    Also, they continue to nail it with the MP3 download being the new master transferred from vinyl.

    I used to hate the folks to held Phish up as this grand standard, but I'll be damned if I don't say that I feel like they get it, and that DMB absolutely does not. It's the little things like this.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:42 PM   #141
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    people reported numbers above 3,500; which is more than just excess jackets for defects.
    To the bold, how would one be able to acquire just the jacket for this new release? I was at this Hollywood Bowl show, which was a very special one for me, and I'd like to have the jacket as a memento to put up on my wall. I can't do much with the vinyl as I don't have a player, and that $125 sticker price is too rich for my blood anyway. Count me among the ones who would buy it on CD, though.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 12:54 PM   #142
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anklebunker View Post
    To the bold, how would one be able to acquire just the jacket for this new release?
    Unless you buy a copy and have a defect, which would require a replacement jacket, there's almost no shot.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 03:32 PM   #143
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    I went to this show and, while it had some OK moments (Squirm with the orchestra was pretty cool), overall the night convinced me that modern DMB shows are simply not worth the ticket price. There's no way I'm going to pay more for a vinyl copy of the show than I did to actually be there. WTF.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 04:14 PM   #144
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    But if we're thinking practically about this, and assuming the goal is profit maximization, how does this release achieve that?

    Relatively niche format, high price point, low demand, limited retail locations, etc.

    For the bold, that seems like a huge logical leap. Longevity =/= marketing success in the case of a predominant live act. Their live shows have been the driving machine behind this, and as those live shows have faltered, so have their ticket sales.
    I agree that if this is only being released as a record store day release, it's a poor choice. A lot of different releases would be more profitable.

    I'm assuming this will be also released for download and on CD (and possibly as a non-limited vinyl version) and that the band's management's sales data shows that releasing this show is more likely to maximize profit than releasing a different show at this exact moment.

    It might be that the sales data shows that when shopping for Christmas gifts, people are more likely to buy a recent show for a DMB fan they know than an old show.

    It might be that there are plans to release an old show in the spring, and they've found that when two "old" shows are released consecutively, sales fall.

    We don't know; all we can do is state uninformed opinions loudly and arrogantly.

    But management has the sales data and their decisions are surely based on that data.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 05:07 PM   #145
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    $125. For the whole thing? Nice!!
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    Old 10-10-2019, 05:20 PM   #146
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MarkMilberg View Post
    We don't know; all we can do is state uninformed opinions loudly and arrogantly.
    Assuming that opinions are uninformed seems...incorrect.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MarkMilberg View Post
    But management has the sales data and their decisions are surely based on that data.
    Yeah, this isn't always how it's done.
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    Old 10-10-2019, 06:01 PM   #147
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Assuming that opinions are uninformed seems...incorrect.
    I don’t ever recall you breaking any kind of news around here. As Benny003 asked, how do we know you’re not just concocting hunches based off of what you see here on Ants and maybe a couple other niche sites?
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    Old 10-10-2019, 06:29 PM   #148
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    I don’t ever recall you breaking any kind of news around here. As Benny003 asked, how do we know you’re not just concocting hunches based off of what you see here on Ants and maybe a couple other niche sites?
    As far as gauging excitement and demand for a release, I said I had a decent pulse but wasn't claiming to know any numbers of their sales. But I do have both a finance and marketing background professionally, and it isn't hard to connect the dots on a release like this.

    You have low appeal to your loyal customers, high price point that is likely out of reach for casual fans, and an event-day release that isn't targeted at demographics likely to create new fans.

    It's not uninformed to draw conclusions based on a set of know details. $125, for a 2018 show, on a day when most shoppers aren't at record stores.

    As far as inside knowledge and that type of stuff - I've dropped a few hints here and there. I don't have a ton of inside information, but every now and then I get a few tips offs. And I do my best to not over share and disrespect the trust of people who give me the limited info they can.
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    Old 10-11-2019, 10:29 AM   #149
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    Very on the fence as to whether i buy this. If i show up to the store and its still there, maybe, but not going out of my way for it.



    As far as management goes...kicking a dead horse, but their sales data should paint a profitable picture of a BTCS vinyl reissue/box set. Fans want it, sales forecasting data should support it...not sure we can assume they are following any rhyme or reason without this being released.
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    Old 10-11-2019, 11:03 AM   #150
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    Re: DMB Live at the Hollywood Bowl 9/10/2018

    What a waste of some great artwork.
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