What a bad album.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally Posted by AFurth

not exactly.

i said cut it for GOOD material.

I guess you don't think Sugar Will, Crazy-Easy, Shotgun, etc. is good?

[AFurth]

Originally Posted by Teddy KGB

I guess you don't think Sugar Will, Crazy-Easy, Shotgun, etc. is good?

nonono - cut the shitty songs FOR good material.

rather than cutting THE good material (sugar will, ggt, crazy easy, etc.)

and i'm not putting shotgun on the list yet because it hasn't been cut. i'm just saying the only tune that i would say - god i hope its on the next studio album (from the summer 06 tour) is shotgun.

not break free, not kill the king, not even the idea of you (though that one is close).

i would like idea of you to get cut in FAVOR OF something better.

hopefully that's more clear.

[JMcCartyFBI]

Originally Posted by AFurth

I think the band will be fine.

Everyone forgets how talented they are. When they are in the right place to write great music again, I have complete confidence they will.

This is a new outlook for me, but as a musician and songwriter, I am starting to understand where dave and the band is. They are just in a transitional period - adding influences and synthesizing new ideas. The fact that this CD is on hold is great news - they want to make something great and not rush things this time. Awesome.

I hope the idea of you doesn't even make the cut for the new album next year - how cool would that be? Not even put a tune like that on the album because they have so much other great material...

Exactly how much longer is this transition period going to last? It's been seven years; almost as long a time as when the band was in their prime. I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a temporary situation anymore.

'00 tour with kick-ass songs > scrapped for Everyday
'04 tour with kick-ass songs > scrapped for Stand Up
'06 tour with okay songs > scrapped for... who knows?

As Mulder once said, "Do you see a pattern emerging here, Scully?"

[AFurth]

Originally Posted by JMcCartyFBI

Exactly how much longer is this transition period going to last? It's been seven years; almost as long a time as when the band was in their prime. I'm sorry, but I just don't see this as a temporary situation anymore.

'00 tour with kick-ass songs > scrapped for Everyday
'04 tour with kick-ass songs > scrapped for Stand Up
'06 tour with okay songs > scrapped for... who knows?

As Mulder once said, "Do you see a pattern emerging here, Scully?"

I see your point. However:

In '04 great songs were written. The band's discretion can be questioned, but the bottom line is that some creativity was present. Dave also had a spurt of creativity as a solo artist. We can all agree that there is some good songwriting on Some Devil. Ideas are being developed.

They need steve or someone like him (or they themselves need to think like him) to flesh out the ideas that they have come up with for this music. Their live show reflects the ideas they came up with in the studio - batson produced songs sound similarly shitty live - lillywhite produced songs sound similarly great live.

They just need to put some work in. This is, what i believe, they are doing right now.

Positive attitude. haha

[Taylor/Martin]

I enjoyed Stand Up when it came out, and enjoy it to this day. Alright, it is by no means the band's best work, but I hate how people always expect another #41 or Two Step to emerge every album. Just because the songs aren't up to those standards, that doesn't mean that it isn't a good album. Listen to OOMH, Die Trying, and American Baby especially. Those are really good songs.

[JMcCartyFBI]

Originally Posted by Taylor/Martin

I enjoyed Stand Up when it came out, and enjoy it to this day. Alright, it is by no means the band's best work, but I hate how people always expect another #41 or Two Step to emerge every album. Just because the songs aren't up to those standards, that doesn't mean that it isn't a good album. Listen to OOMH, Die Trying, and American Baby especially. Those are really good songs.

I'm asking this with a completely straight face. Why shouldn't the fanbase of a band expect said band to maintain or improve upon the standard that the band has set? And perhaps more importantly, why shouldn't the band hold themselves to the standard they have set?

It doesn't even have to be all about quality. For me, it's a simple question of intent. The intent behind UTTAD was to make the best damn album that they could. The intent behind Crash was to make an as good or better album than UTTAD. The intent of BTCS was to make an as good or better album than Crash. The intent of the LWS was to make an as good or better album than BTCS.

From here on out, we spiral out of control. The intent of ED was to make an album in the shortest amount of time that would sell well enough to reimburse RCA for all the money it wasted on the LWS. The intent of BS was to appease the fans who were pissed off that they got ED instead of the LWS. The intent of SU was to go off in some radical new direction purely for the sake of change. They have yet to follow through with an album with the intent of making it as good or better than the big three since (and in my opinion because of) the LWS.

[AFurth]

Originally Posted by JMcCartyFBI

I'm asking this with a completely straight face. Why shouldn't the fanbase of a band expect said band to maintain or improve upon the standard that the band has set? And perhaps more importantly, why shouldn't the band hold themselves to the standard they have set?

It doesn't even have to be all about quality. For me, it's a simple question of intent. The intent behind UTTAD was to make the best damn album that they could. The intent behind Crash was to make an as good or better album than UTTAD. The intent of BTCS was to make an as good or better album than Crash. The intent of the LWS was to make an as good or better album than BTCS.

From here on out, we spiral out of control. The intent of ED was to make an album in the shortest amount of time that would sell well enough to reimburse RCA for all the money it wasted on the LWS. The intent of BS was to appease the fans who were pissed off that they got ED instead of the LWS. The intent of SU was to go off in some radical new direction purely for the sake of change. They have yet to follow through with an album with the intent of making it as good or better than the big three since (and in my opinion because of) the LWS.

Bingo.

[kydmb99]

Originally Posted by JMcCartyFBI

I'm asking this with a completely straight face. Why shouldn't the fanbase of a band expect said band to maintain or improve upon the standard that the band has set? And perhaps more importantly, why shouldn't the band hold themselves to the standard they have set?

It doesn't even have to be all about quality. For me, it's a simple question of intent. The intent behind UTTAD was to make the best damn album that they could. The intent behind Crash was to make an as good or better album than UTTAD. The intent of BTCS was to make an as good or better album than Crash. The intent of the LWS was to make an as good or better album than BTCS.

From here on out, we spiral out of control. The intent of ED was to make an album in the shortest amount of time that would sell well enough to reimburse RCA for all the money it wasted on the LWS. The intent of BS was to appease the fans who were pissed off that they got ED instead of the LWS. The intent of SU was to go off in some radical new direction purely for the sake of change. They have yet to follow through with an album with the intent of making it as good or better than the big three since (and in my opinion because of) the LWS.

I love you.

[Teddy KGB]

Originally Posted by JMcCartyFBI

They have yet to follow through with an album with the intent of making it as good or better than the big three since (and in my opinion because of) the LWS.

Maybe their next album will be this...if they haven't given up on the possibility by now that is.

[AFurth]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

I love you.

i think we should start an alliance - ala bag it tag it.

on every thread about the demise of the band.

think it over.

[ncdude2k3]

DMB seems to have a major case of rockstar syndrome. They seem to think they're above having their music critiqued and having someone tell then 'this sucks'. They're such an energetic, and yes lazy band..they need someone there to keep them focused and on track.

[Taylor/Martin]

Originally Posted by JMcCartyFBI

I'm asking this with a completely straight face. Why shouldn't the fanbase of a band expect said band to maintain or improve upon the standard that the band has set? And perhaps more importantly, why shouldn't the band hold themselves to the standard they have set?

It doesn't even have to be all about quality. For me, it's a simple question of intent. The intent behind UTTAD was to make the best damn album that they could. The intent behind Crash was to make an as good or better album than UTTAD. The intent of BTCS was to make an as good or better album than Crash. The intent of the LWS was to make an as good or better album than BTCS.

From here on out, we spiral out of control. The intent of ED was to make an album in the shortest amount of time that would sell well enough to reimburse RCA for all the money it wasted on the LWS. The intent of BS was to appease the fans who were pissed off that they got ED instead of the LWS. The intent of SU was to go off in some radical new direction purely for the sake of change. They have yet to follow through with an album with the intent of making it as good or better than the big three since (and in my opinion because of) the LWS.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you took my comment about #41 and Two Step out of context. What I meant by that is that every single song that they write cannot be a masterpiece, even if they try to make it one. We should hold them to high standards, but we look for them to set the bar higher everytime, which is impossible. And also, what is wrong with the band wanting to go in a new direction with Stand Up? The music isn't all about us, or at least it shouldn't be. They have to enjoy what they're doing and hope that we do as well. That's not to say that they shouldn't be listening to what the fans have to say, but it also doesn't mean that they should ignore what they want to do for our sake. If that was the case....the LWS would have been released and we wouldn't have had anything else to complain abiout except "I wish the band was still together."

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Taylor/Martin

I understand where you are coming from, but I think you took my comment about #41 and Two Step out of context. What I meant by that is that every single song that they write cannot be a masterpiece, even if they try to make it one. We should hold them to high standards, but we look for them to set the bar higher everytime, which is impossible. And also, what is wrong with the band wanting to go in a new direction with Stand Up? The music isn't all about us, or at least it shouldn't be. They have to enjoy what they're doing and hope that we do as well. That's not to say that they shouldn't be listening to what the fans have to say, but it also doesn't mean that they should ignore what they want to do for our sake. If that was the case....the LWS would have been released and we wouldn't have had anything else to complain abiout except "I wish the band was still together."

It shouldn't be about the fans OR about them having fun.

It should be about the art.

If it isn't, there's no point.

[Taylor/Martin]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

It shouldn't be about the fans OR about them having fun.

It should be about the art.

If it isn't, there's no point.

But if you're not enjoying yourself, then what's the point?

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Taylor/Martin

But if you're not enjoying yourself, then what's the point?

Well, I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive.

Maybe you need both. I think that's a possibility, but why should JUST fun be enough? It seems to me that if fun is a necessary condition, both fun AND artistic integrity are necessary conditions.

[Taylor/Martin]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

Well, I don't see why the two are mutually exclusive.

Maybe you need both. I think that's a possibility, but why should JUST fun be enough? It seems to me that if fun is a necessary condition, both fun AND artistic integrity are necessary conditions.

I agree with that. I just meant that if they aren't having fun with what they're doing, then they aren't going to have that ambition and drive to create another masterpiece.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Taylor/Martin

I agree with that. I just meant that if they aren't having fun with what they're doing, then they aren't going to have that ambition and drive to create another masterpiece.

Haven't you ever heard the term "tortured artist?"

[Taylor/Martin]

Hopefully that's not what DMB becomes.

[BigEyedFerg]

LWS is essentially Dave in "tortured artist" mode, and I think we can agree that is some of his best work. And if you think about it, DMB's depressing songs are oftentimes the most passionate and moving pieces...at least for me personally.

I think DMB is far from drained of creative potential. However, this new album will need to be a defining moment, I think. And for the sake of staying on topic, Stand Up is easily their worst studio work, but the live renditions more than compensate for the radically different sounds found in the studio recordings...

[mojo1210]

Originally Posted by BigEyedFerg

LWS is essentially Dave in "tortured artist" mode, and I think we can agree that is some of his best work. And if you think about it, DMB's depressing songs are oftentimes the most passionate and moving pieces...at least for me personally.

I think DMB is far from drained of creative potential. However, this new album will need to be a defining moment, I think. And for the sake of staying on topic, Stand Up is easily their worst studio work, but the live renditions more than compensate for the radically different sounds found in the studio recordings...

was he in tortured artist mode when he created some devil? perhaps the issue isn't his abilities or his mental state but instead the band.

[BigEyedFerg]

^Well, you have a point there...

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what ends up happening with the new album. I personally think DMB is in a do-or-die situation.

[chrisjames]

The bottom line is, if you want another classic, they need to get away from Mark Batson

[Taylor/Martin]

Originally Posted by mojo1210

was he in tortured artist mode when he created some devil? perhaps the issue isn't his abilities or his mental state but instead the band.

Personally I think that the band in a way holds Dave back. I remember one interview about Some Devil and he said that these songs wouldn't have seen the light of day with the band. If the band wants to get back to their highest point again, it all starts with Dave, and the band listening to him. He was the person who wrote all of the songs originally (STJL, IBYU, etc). That may sound a little crazy because there are 4 other members, but we all saw the work done on Some Devil, and that's because Dave was able to do what he felt was best without being "shot down" by the other members.

[jiggajm18]

Originally Posted by ncdude2k3

Even Bob Dylan has made mediocre and subpar albums.

dylan made some albums admittedly subpar. big difference when you compare it to dmb's usual, "this is some of our best work" quotes that they've thrown us after "everyday" and "stand up"

[Isweetwhirled]

Originally Posted by jere659

maybe he is reinventing himself and is reaching out to different fans that didnt like him prior....whatever, i try to like all his stuff, same with other artists...its the artist....nobody's gonna be writing amazing epics every single time

are your standards this low with women as well?!?

[jiggajm18]

Originally Posted by jiggajm18

dylan made some albums admittedly subpar. big difference when you compare it to dmb's usual, "this is some of our best work" quotes that they've thrown us after "everyday" and "stand up"

i meant to say that dylan himself admitted to releasing subpar albums at the time of their release

[BigEyedFerg]

I still think that once DMB releases two consecutive shit albums back to back, we have a problem. Until then, I will place 100% faith in the band

[Milenk]

teh sweet up and Down

[JMcCartyFBI]

Originally Posted by BigEyedFerg

I still think that once DMB releases two consecutive shit albums back to back, we have a problem. Until then, I will place 100% faith in the band

Yeah, but Busted Stuff being released in between Everyday and Stand Up is a technicality, not an actual representation of the chronological creative process that occurred.

[kydmb99]

Originally Posted by AFurth

i think we should start an alliance - ala bag it tag it.

on every thread about the demise of the band.

think it over.

I'm down.