What would you want in the 25th Anniv. package of BTCS? - Page 80 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion

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Old 04-28-2021, 02:38 PM   #2371
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Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

The band wants to concentrate on releasing an album they might not actually release after all over something we're all pleading for, great.
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  • Old 04-28-2021, 02:42 PM   #2372
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post

    This is relatively baseless speculation on my part
    Just wanted to emphasize the above.

    I've had exactly zero people tell me that the BTCS masters may be lost. And I generally agree that there would likely be a safety copy somewhere, or that the tracks are safely kept in high quality digital storage. Unfortunately I'm specifically aware of several instances where that isn't the case, sort of like the Star Wars thing I mentioned. I also know that someone at RLM once donated a bunch of master tapes to Goodwill that they didn't think they needed, which I ended up buying. I spent a few months emailing mostly defunct bands, asking if they wanted their master tapes back. Some of them even paid me for finding their stuff.

    I've told the story before, but one of Tim Reynolds' masters was among those tapes, and it happened to be an album that Dave provided some guest vocals for. Tim definitely wanted his tape back, and so did some of the other artists. So I can't help but wonder what else has been carelessly lost over the years and that's where the speculation comes into play. That and we've gone a full five years now since Crash came out. Something definitely happened.

    I could believe what I'm told, and that's that the band is not currently interested in any studio archival project (even though they were for the first several albums...?) or I could speculate that perhaps something happened to the tape. I'm leaning towards the latter. At minimum, something clearly changed in terms of the roadmap to release.
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    Old 04-28-2021, 07:20 PM   #2373
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Even if they masters are lost, couldn’t they reissue the vinyl from a cd?
    Not that it would be good to do but people would still buy it and they could cash in #Cap$hawed
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    Old 04-28-2021, 07:34 PM   #2374
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    Just wanted to emphasize the above.

    I've had exactly zero people tell me that the BTCS masters may be lost. And I generally agree that there would likely be a safety copy somewhere, or that the tracks are safely kept in high quality digital storage. Unfortunately I'm specifically aware of several instances where that isn't the case, sort of like the Star Wars thing I mentioned. I also know that someone at RLM once donated a bunch of master tapes to Goodwill that they didn't think they needed, which I ended up buying. I spent a few months emailing mostly defunct bands, asking if they wanted their master tapes back. Some of them even paid me for finding their stuff.

    I've told the story before, but one of Tim Reynolds' masters was among those tapes, and it happened to be an album that Dave provided some guest vocals for. Tim definitely wanted his tape back, and so did some of the other artists. So I can't help but wonder what else has been carelessly lost over the years and that's where the speculation comes into play. That and we've gone a full five years now since Crash came out. Something definitely happened.

    I could believe what I'm told, and that's that the band is not currently interested in any studio archival project (even though they were for the first several albums...?) or I could speculate that perhaps something happened to the tape. I'm leaning towards the latter. At minimum, something clearly changed in terms of the roadmap to release.
    We just heard word that a new album release for this year was not out of the realm of possibility, does that mean they are still working on the next album and that it isn't the same version of sessions from last October? And that may be the reason they aren't focused on BTCS? I feel like they are making releases so much more complicated than they need to be...
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    Old 04-28-2021, 11:44 PM   #2375
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ElijahSoRight72 View Post
    We just heard word that a new album release for this year was not out of the realm of possibility, does that mean they are still working on the next album and that it isn't the same version of sessions from last October? And that may be the reason they aren't focused on BTCS? I feel like they are making releases so much more complicated than they need to be...
    I'm led to believe that there is still work being done. Wish I knew definitively where everything stands but I don't. And I don't want to pretend like I always know what they're up to because I absolutely don't. If I get some kind of specific new album news I'll share it. And I'll consider adding a post to the album thread with all the info I'm aware of, none of which I would consider to be Earth shattering.

    I listened to my BTCS vinyl today and it provoked me to post in this thread. I don't really believe that the band stands in the way of a reissue so I figured I'd post my conspiracy theory. I'm throwing darts for sure. All the other thoughts and opinions posted by everyone are totally valid. I especially note the comment about the Universal archive fire, even if there weren't any DMB tapes there, it's a great illustration of how shit can happen.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 05:28 AM   #2376
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willndmb View Post
    Even if they masters are lost, couldn’t they reissue the vinyl from a cd?
    Not that it would be good to do but people would still buy it and they could cash in #Cap$hawed
    Don't give them ideas! They could have the tapes and just do this and claim it was the only option they had!
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    Old 04-29-2021, 05:31 AM   #2377
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    I listened to my BTCS vinyl today and it provoked me to post in this thread. I don't really believe that the band stands in the way of a reissue so I figured I'd post my conspiracy theory. I'm throwing darts for sure. All the other thoughts and opinions posted by everyone are totally valid. I especially note the comment about the Universal archive fire, even if there weren't any DMB tapes there, it's a great illustration of how shit can happen.
    I'm with you on this. It doesn't make much sense in general, and makes no sense that they'd have been either okay/not involved with R2T, Recently, UTTAD, Crash (and all the live stuff between the LTs, DMBLive, and the retail releases like RR95/Luther/etc) and now suddenly be against allowing these things to continue.


    So, we're left to speculate (and complain, dammit )
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    Old 04-29-2021, 06:16 AM   #2378
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HonestDenver1 View Post
    At one point I even considered buying the original vinyl until I researched and discovered the actual sound on it was less than desirable..
    I don't recall ever hearing this before? I down own a copy of the original, but is it a questionable pressing?
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    Old 04-29-2021, 07:01 AM   #2379
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wmg21 View Post
    I don't recall ever hearing this before? I down own a copy of the original, but is it a questionable pressing?
    The original pressing is from '98, when vinyl was basically a dead format. Very few things were released on the analog format, and as such, very little effort was made into making these sound good. BTCS was record analog, meaning that the potential exists to have an all-analog release, or AAA (analog source/mix/mastering, on an analog format - vinyl). Instead, because vinyl was a dead format at the time (and based on some surrounding evidence like where the lacquers were cut, etc), it's a near certainty that they simply took the mastering made for the CD and applied it to the vinyl release. That generally results in less-than-ideal sound, because you're taking mastering work for a digital format and trying to apply it to an analog format.


    Now, you can have a hi-res digital master that is cut with the intention of it being for vinyl, and things can sound great. But it's that format-specific mastering that matters, and that was almost certainly not done for BTCS in '98. So you're left with a format that by design has distortions (when people talk about vinyl being "warm" sounding, that's natural distortion caused by the analog technology/format), with a non-dedicated master. You're better off just buying the CD or listening to high quality digital streams/downloads at that point if your goal is to listen in the best audio quality available.


    The hope would be that a remaster of BTCS would be vinyl-specific for a new vinyl release, and cut by a good engineer (Chris Bellman, Kevin Gray, Scott Hull are some of the good ones that have cut DMB vinyl in the past), and then pressed at a good pressing plant to avoid quality defects. The original was also pressed on some not-so-great vinyl compound and is very thin - I'd be wary of buying a sealed copy because after 23 years in shrink wrap, there's a higher chance of warping issues. A new remaster would likely be pressed on better vinyl compound and probably 150g-180g to help with longevity.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 08:42 AM   #2380
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Now this is out of the band's control (probably), but it's things like this that makes it frustrating to be a fan of this band. Unless they actually do have the master tape safe and sound.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 09:01 AM   #2381
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Crash1983 View Post
    And on all their social channels they just posted about the BTCS anniversary, they are getting bombarded with vinyl reissue requests
    Yes, by the 17 people that follow them. 12 want vinyl!
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    Old 04-29-2021, 10:00 AM   #2382
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    Now this is out of the band's control (probably), but it's things like this that makes it frustrating to be a fan of this band. Unless they actually do have the master tape safe and sound.
    I agree with the frustration. To me, the idea that the band has told their management to hold off on things that fans are dying for is laughable. It seems lazy too. If you manage an artist, and your artist wants to do something moronic, it's your job as a manager to prevent your artist from being a moron. Unless of course you manage several bands so you make a ton of money regardless and you don't particularly like DMB, their music or their fans... which I believe to be the case for certain people. They'd really like us to believe that their hands are tied... like, gosh diddly darn we want to done diddly do all that cool stuff but are hands are just ding dang tied cuz the band dont wanna do it.... soooorrrryy.

    I think DMB needs a manager that exclusively works to improve the DMB fan experience. There is enough work to be done with DMB that they could work exclusively on DMB related endeavors. Not 8 managers and a dozen more lower level employees that work on 20 different band's projects, passing off blame and responsibility to each other. 1 manager who's job it is to improve the fan's experience. From concert day to online socials and everything in between... improve the fan experience by polishing every detail. That manager should also be tasked with oversight of the other managers & employees on ALL DMB related projects.

    End rant.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 10:26 AM   #2383
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    I agree with the frustration. To me, the idea that the band has told their management to hold off on things that fans are dying for is laughable. It seems lazy too. If you manage an artist, and your artist wants to do something moronic, it's your job as a manager to prevent your artist from being a moron. Unless of course you manage several bands so you make a ton of money regardless and you don't particularly like DMB, their music or their fans... which I believe to be the case for certain people. They'd really like us to believe that their hands are tied... like, gosh diddly darn we want to done diddly do all that cool stuff but are hands are just ding dang tied cuz the band dont wanna do it.... soooorrrryy.

    I think DMB needs a manager that exclusively works to improve the DMB fan experience. There is enough work to be done with DMB that they could work exclusively on DMB related endeavors. Not 8 managers and a dozen more lower level employees that work on 20 different band's projects, passing off blame and responsibility to each other. 1 manager who's job it is to improve the fan's experience. From concert day to online socials and everything in between... improve the fan experience by polishing every detail. That manager should also be tasked with oversight of the other managers & employees on ALL DMB related projects.

    End rant.
    i was part of the Colorado Rockies Fire Jeff Bridich movement that was a swimming success, anyway we can get DMB's manager fired and you put in their place? hahaha
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    I just wanted to check what the consensus on this song was so I could decide how I feel. I can't remember if we hate it or not because I didn't pay attention when it was more relevant. Sorry.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carbon Copy View Post
    j. mayer could easily replace dave in dmb
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    Old 04-29-2021, 11:18 AM   #2384
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by groogrux27 View Post
    i was part of the Colorado Rockies Fire Jeff Bridich movement that was a swimming success, anyway we can get DMB's manager fired and you put in their place? hahaha
    I'd love it. More so for the fans and band than even myself. I've expressed interest to Mr Capshaw directly but we're just not there yet. However I do believe groundwork has been placed for something fruitful down the line. I definitely have allies in/around Red Light outside of Mr Capshaw and it's really only certain people that I shake my head at, not all of whom are even directly employed by Red Light.

    At the end of the day I think the fans and band deserve much better than the tired effort they receive. Hopefully things change eventually.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 11:28 AM   #2385
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Sirius just announced a weekend celebrating the 25th anniversary of Crash coming up so maybe it is just a switch in mindset from 20 to 25 year celebrations.


    "“Crash” is turning 25 tomorrow, April 30h!

    Starting Friday and airing through Sunday, tune in to SiriusXM
    Dave Matthews Band
    Radio to hear cuts from the album every hour, along with exclusive, behind-the-scenes commentaries and recollections from Dave about making "Crash"."
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    Old 04-29-2021, 11:40 AM   #2386
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jenhen27 View Post
    behind-the-scenes commentaries and recollections from Dave about making "Crash"."
    amazing. Maybe the nudging paid off

    Hat tip to anyone at Sirius or Red Light who pushed for this to happen.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 12:22 PM   #2387
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Amazing how they might have people making any decisions for the band who may not like DMB's music, wow.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 01:01 PM   #2388
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    I'm led to believe that there is still work being done. Wish I knew definitively where everything stands but I don't. And I don't want to pretend like I always know what they're up to because I absolutely don't. If I get some kind of specific new album news I'll share it. And I'll consider adding a post to the album thread with all the info I'm aware of, none of which I would consider to be Earth shattering.
    This would be greatly appreciated by bums like me who are desperate for album news/info.

    Always great to get your take, Carson.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 01:11 PM   #2389
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    Amazing how they might have people making any decisions for the band who may not like DMB's music, wow.
    That's not that surprising. I know a couple people in other arts management agencies, and they represent some artists they cant stand. Not that they would make a decision to actively hurt those artists, but could create a situation where you arent putting all your effort in. Adds alot of support for the idea that a band needs a primary manager and/or team that actively believe in the group.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 01:39 PM   #2390
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    That might actually explain a lot of reasons between what decisions are made, and how a place like this reacts to them. I've always gave the decision makers the benefit of the doubt, that might make me change my perspective.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 01:40 PM   #2391
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    LT16 and DMB Live 25 were released by fans for the fans, and they're both beloved.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 03:05 PM   #2392
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Completely wild to think that these multi-million dollar companies could potentially have such boneheaded fuck-ups such as losing master recordings

    I hate the way Dave (and anyone who works for him) operates sometimes. Ditto on what was said above; its so frustrating to be a fan of this band sometimes.
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    Old 04-29-2021, 03:39 PM   #2393
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Coming from other people who hear things on here, supposedly, my own take of what was allowed to be said on here, the reason we never got RR98 as a LT is because they lost the tape to that. What the fuck is going on over there.
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    Old 04-30-2021, 10:39 AM   #2394
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    Re: What would you want in the 22nd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    The original pressing is from '98, when vinyl was basically a dead format. Very few things were released on the analog format, and as such, very little effort was made into making these sound good. BTCS was record analog, meaning that the potential exists to have an all-analog release, or AAA (analog source/mix/mastering, on an analog format - vinyl). Instead, because vinyl was a dead format at the time (and based on some surrounding evidence like where the lacquers were cut, etc), it's a near certainty that they simply took the mastering made for the CD and applied it to the vinyl release. That generally results in less-than-ideal sound, because you're taking mastering work for a digital format and trying to apply it to an analog format.


    Now, you can have a hi-res digital master that is cut with the intention of it being for vinyl, and things can sound great. But it's that format-specific mastering that matters, and that was almost certainly not done for BTCS in '98. So you're left with a format that by design has distortions (when people talk about vinyl being "warm" sounding, that's natural distortion caused by the analog technology/format), with a non-dedicated master. You're better off just buying the CD or listening to high quality digital streams/downloads at that point if your goal is to listen in the best audio quality available.


    The hope would be that a remaster of BTCS would be vinyl-specific for a new vinyl release, and cut by a good engineer (Chris Bellman, Kevin Gray, Scott Hull are some of the good ones that have cut DMB vinyl in the past), and then pressed at a good pressing plant to avoid quality defects. The original was also pressed on some not-so-great vinyl compound and is very thin - I'd be wary of buying a sealed copy because after 23 years in shrink wrap, there's a higher chance of warping issues. A new remaster would likely be pressed on better vinyl compound and probably 150g-180g to help with longevity.
    Thanks for the additional info! I'm aware of the general differences in pressing, and I know that the lineage for BTCS is disputed/unconfirmed, but I still thought the general consensus was that it sounded pretty good.
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    Last edited by wmg21; 04-30-2021 at 10:41 AM.
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    Old 04-30-2021, 10:49 AM   #2395
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    Coming from other people who hear things on here, supposedly, my own take of what was allowed to be said on here, the reason we never got RR98 as a LT is because they lost the tape to that. What the fuck is going on over there.
    I think what we’ve heard is that a lot of those ‘98 tapes were damaged, not necessarily misplaced
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    Old 04-30-2021, 10:54 AM   #2396
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    LT16 and DMB Live 25 were released by fans for the fans, and they're both beloved.
    I though Dave pinned for LT16? Or was that LT10 I’m thinking of? I forget lol
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    Old 04-30-2021, 11:15 AM   #2397
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    I though Dave pinned for LT16? Or was that LT10 I’m thinking of? I forget lol
    After the Portuguese fans got together and organized a campaign to get the show that would become LT10 released, Ants in response organized and conducted site wide polls of what shows ranked highly enough in terms of votes (you could go to an archived show on here [I don't know if that function is still up], and click on a button that registered your vote for the show) to become released as a future LT. That went on for several months until finally LT16 emerged from all that activity.
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    Old 04-30-2021, 01:13 PM   #2398
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    And my now 4th annual answering of the title question: I just want BTCS done the same way a Crash. Crash is about as perfect as it gets, just give me that again.
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    Old 04-30-2021, 02:38 PM   #2399
    cry_minarets458
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RSSR View Post
    After the Portuguese fans got together and organized a campaign to get the show that would become LT10 released, Ants in response organized and conducted site wide polls of what shows ranked highly enough in terms of votes (you could go to an archived show on here [I don't know if that function is still up], and click on a button that registered your vote for the show) to become released as a future LT. That went on for several months until finally LT16 emerged from all that activity.

    And the original ants party at cville 2009 had that live trax sound board before it was even announced. They had it playing over the speakers at mono loco RIP
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    Old 10-20-2021, 09:39 AM   #2400
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    Re: What would you want in the 23rd Anniv. package of BTCS?

    There’s no news on this, just FYI.
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