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Old 06-19-2018, 11:23 AM   #91
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Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

Quote:
Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
I wonder if BS were the leaked versions and LWS were the officially released versions (of course that wouldn't make any sense, but that's not what this is about) if we'd all feel as strongly as do about the superiority of LWS.

Part of their appeal is obviously tied to the fact that they are demos, not polished, ideas still forming, some literally unfinished/incomplete, guttural, raw, expressive, etc. But another aspect we have to embrace is that we have access to this secret music, proof of something different, something special that most others are not only unaware, but unlikely to appreciate. There's a chance we'd have some weirdly similar feelings had Everyday been the first scrapped and discarded attempt at their fourth official major label studio album...although I can't even begin to imagine we'd think of it with a millionth of the reverence we have for LWS.
I think the rawness of tLWS reminds people more of Crash and UTTAD than anything else. tLWS is definitely in the top four collections of songs this band has. But Busted Stuff was fantastic.
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  • Old 06-19-2018, 11:25 AM   #92
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NeatFreakGeek View Post
    he had/has his own snowboard company, right?

    it was stefan beyond a reasonable doubt, for sure
    read a rumor here that Roi might also have been suspected of leaking it. not sure the validity of course.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 11:27 AM   #93
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    Stefan is denying that it was him. he deleted a tweet that said it wasn't his disc
    STEFAN DELETED A TWEET?!?! WHAT?! That dude has so little impulse control it’s crazy.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 11:30 AM   #94
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?
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    Old 06-19-2018, 11:44 AM   #95
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    Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?


    + Busted Stuff’s outro sounds more full & funky

    + The guitar on Grey Street sounds more polished & easy to listen to

    + Not an improvement I guess but we got YNK

    = I’m indifferent between the two Captains but I do respect the dark intentions they had on LWS

    + Raven sounds a bit more full and got actual lyrics

    + Big Eyed Fish just sounds better to me on BS and opens more appropriately with Dave solo

    - Monkey Man was amazing, can’t believe we lost that

    - JTR too

    - SUAD too


    Every song on BS sounds more “complete” than those on LWS in terms of production. LWS songs are underproduced, but most likely because they weren’t finished. That underproduction is nice in some places (Monkey Man) but rough in others (SUAD). Just my opinion.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 11:48 AM   #96
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post


    Just as an aside, although they were mixed (some more roughly than others) they were never mastered.
    The "Karmageddon" version is pretty damn decent
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    Old 06-19-2018, 11:48 AM   #97
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    I'm torn with BEF because I think it's musically better on LWS but I like the order of the verses better as is.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:04 PM   #98
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?
    I can't posit that BS made any improvements over the direction that the LWS songs where headed in, but I know which versions of which songs I prefer to listen to from which albums when I'm listening to random tracks. That is to say, some songs on tLWS are more enjoyable listens than the BS counterparts and some are more just glimpses of a greater potential that, in my opinion, isn't as enjoyable from a pure listening stand point as the finished versions on BS. There are more examples of the former than the latter, however.

    It isn't any surprise that the ones I lean BS on are the ones that were less polished and had looser lyrics on tLWS. Grey Street, for instance, had much greater potential on tLWS but its so incomplete lyrically that I would prefer to listen to the BS version if I'm comparing them apples to apples. Same with Raven. I can hear it would have been better had it been actualized on tLWS but to my ear, I'd just rather listen to the BS version. Those two aside, almost everything else I lean LWS on. Busted Stuff I can take on either album, I will admit. But BEF, Bartender, GIG, Captain, and Ditch I prefer LWS all day every day.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #99
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    100%. I’ve blasted the direction BEF took shortly after the leak and how they ruined it by essentially turning it into a glorified intro to Bartender. Boyd PLUCKING the outro?? There truly is no one with worst taste in DMB than Dave Matthews himself. I’ve griped about this so much on certain podcast episodes. Might have to bring it up again on the next one.
    I agree 110%. That song went from a masterpiece to a neutered jokey sounding song. They tried way too hard to make it light, and In doing so, lost what made it so brilliant. And yeah, without Boyd on the outro, it lost one of the most beautiful musical lines in the song.

    But, hey. Dave told that monkey to stay in his fuckin’ tree. WHOOOO!
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #100
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jake.sager View Post
    + Busted Stuff’s outro sounds more full & funky

    + The guitar on Grey Street sounds more polished & easy to listen to

    + Not an improvement I guess but we got YNK

    = I’m indifferent between the two Captains but I do respect the dark intentions they had on LWS

    + Raven sounds a bit more full and got actual lyrics

    + Big Eyed Fish just sounds better to me on BS and opens more appropriately with Dave solo

    - Monkey Man was amazing, can’t believe we lost that

    - JTR too

    - SUAD too


    Every song on BS sounds more “complete” than those on LWS in terms of production. LWS songs are underproduced, but most likely because they weren’t finished. That underproduction is nice in some places (Monkey Man) but rough in others (SUAD). Just my opinion.
    ill give you that.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:09 PM   #101
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mono View Post
    I can't posit that BS made any improvements over the direction that the LWS songs where headed in, but I know which versions of which songs I prefer to listen to from which albums when I'm listening to random tracks. That is to say, some songs on tLWS are more enjoyable listens than the BS counterparts and some are more just glimpses of a greater potential that, in my opinion, isn't as enjoyable from a pure listening stand point as the finished versions on BS. There are more examples of the former than the latter, however.

    It isn't any surprise that the ones I lean BS on are the ones that were less polished and had looser lyrics on tLWS. Grey Street, for instance, had much greater potential on tLWS but its so incomplete lyrically that I would prefer to listen to the BS version if I'm comparing them apples to apples. Same with Raven. I can hear it would have been better had it been actualized on tLWS but to my ear, I'd just rather listen to the BS version. Those two aside, almost everything else I lean LWS on. Busted Stuff I can take on either album, I will admit. But BEF, Bartender, GIG, Captain, and Ditch I prefer LWS all day every day.
    really well said. even if Grey Street wasnt totally done on LWS, what they had laid down and where it was going was MUCH better than what was put on Busted Stuff. and with that being said, LWS Grey Street wasn't that far from being complete.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:47 PM   #102
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?
    Personally, no. I never listen to BS, only LWS. But I'll say that BS sounds more 'finished' even though I still prefer LWS. Maybe because I'm so used to this band live, the 'polished' sound doesn't really mean much to me?
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    Old 06-19-2018, 12:59 PM   #103
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?
    only the outro to BS. The walking bass was a good add.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jake.sager View Post
    + Busted Stuff’s outro sounds more full & funky

    + The guitar on Grey Street sounds more polished & easy to listen to

    + Not an improvement I guess but we got YNK

    = I’m indifferent between the two Captains but I do respect the dark intentions they had on LWS

    + Raven sounds a bit more full and got actual lyrics

    + Big Eyed Fish just sounds better to me on BS and opens more appropriately with Dave solo

    - Monkey Man was amazing, can’t believe we lost that

    - JTR too

    - SUAD too


    Every song on BS sounds more “complete” than those on LWS in terms of production. LWS songs are underproduced, but most likely because they weren’t finished. That underproduction is nice in some places (Monkey Man) but rough in others (SUAD). Just my opinion.
    But that's because production on BS was finished. EQ'd, mixed, dithered and mastered.

    The music for Captain seemed more together on BS, but the lyrics, mood, and atmosphere took a hit. Same with BEF.

    Grey St. on LWS really only had the 12-string guitar scratch track that everything was built around.

    Yes, Raven got a standard set of lyrics that were nowhere near as great as the ad libbed versions we heard on the '00 and '01 tours. The BS arrangement felt canned, like it was simp0ly going through the motions.



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    ill give you that.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 01:10 PM   #104
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    i can't think of one instance where BS made improvements to the LWS songs. you guys?
    I wouldn’t say it “improves” anything, but here’s my take:

    I adore the LWS, and the versions of those songs are really special. The thing is, I only listen to this album in a specific mood. I also only really listen to those tracks together, because they flow so well together but are kinda jarring when placed in the middle of really anything else.

    I also want to keep LWS special, so that adds to why I rarely listen. It is probably the greatest drinking album of all time. There’s nights we’re I’m in a deep mood and have had maybe a little too much to drink, and I just have to listen to this album.

    So for me, Busted Stuff is more listenable in an everyday scenario. Like, driving around etc. Also, Busted Stuff doesn’t make me depressed as shit, so I guess there’s that, lol.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 03:01 PM   #105
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    looks like fonz is lurking...

    https://twitter.com/SLessard/status/1009148779407159296
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    Old 06-19-2018, 03:05 PM   #106
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
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    Or people were tweeting at him about it.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 03:20 PM   #107
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
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    Old 06-19-2018, 03:41 PM   #108
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    It just occurred to me that I've never seen a comprehensive look into what brought them back into the studio for Busted Stuff with Stephen Harris. I know the most absurd/obscure facts about songs that were only soundchecked in 1993 but I feel like I know almost nothing about the BS sessions aside from what's been documented on the studio tracklist on Ants.

    Were they excited? What lifted the darkness that had previously hung over those previous sessions? How on earth did anyone convince them to revisit ANY of these tunes after Bruce Flohr shat upon the lack of an apparent hit?

    Anyone got any interesting tidbits to share that maybe aren't common knowledge?
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    Old 06-19-2018, 03:56 PM   #109
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    What always struck me, and what I find hardest to understand, is this: how in the holy hell do you get to that point of completion with JTR and think, "nah, won't be releasing that." Ditto SUAD

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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:00 PM   #110
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CapnHani06 View Post
    It just occurred to me that I've never seen a comprehensive look into what brought them back into the studio for Busted Stuff with Stephen Harris. I know the most absurd/obscure facts about songs that were only soundchecked in 1993 but I feel like I know almost nothing about the BS sessions aside from what's been documented on the studio tracklist on Ants.

    Were they excited? What lifted the darkness that had previously hung over those previous sessions? How on earth did anyone convince them to revisit ANY of these tunes after Bruce Flohr shat upon the lack of an apparent hit?

    Anyone got any interesting tidbits to share that maybe aren't common knowledge?
    This thread got me thinking the exact same thing – definitely interested to hear more about the post ED through BS release timeline.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:02 PM   #111
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

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    What always struck me, and what I find hardest to understand, is this: how in the holy hell do you get to that point of completion with JTR and think, "nah, won't be releasing that." Ditto SUAD

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    As far as JTR, the only that remotely makes an ounce of sense is the fact that it was co-written with Santana, and a version was released on his Supernatural album.

    As far as Sweet Up and Down and Monkey Man, the only thing I can think is that they were deciding between those two and two others. Where Are You Going had to make it, as it was written with “hit” in mind, and You Never Know was the other. I think they could’ve fit SUAD on there as well, it would’ve made the album 58 minutes over 12 tracks rather than 54 minutes over 11 tracks. Big whoop. Monkey Man should’ve at least been played live or released on a bonus disc or some shit
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:03 PM   #112
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CapnHani06 View Post
    It just occurred to me that I've never seen a comprehensive look into what brought them back into the studio for Busted Stuff with Stephen Harris. I know the most absurd/obscure facts about songs that were only soundchecked in 1993 but I feel like I know almost nothing about the BS sessions aside from what's been documented on the studio tracklist on Ants.

    Were they excited? What lifted the darkness that had previously hung over those previous sessions? How on earth did anyone convince them to revisit ANY of these tunes after Bruce Flohr shat upon the lack of an apparent hit?

    Anyone got any interesting tidbits to share that maybe aren't common knowledge?
    My guess is the songs were recorded to clear the pallet. They probably felt like they had unfinished work out there in the open. There's also the $$$ component to capitalizing on the material.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:03 PM   #113
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maythekarma1 View Post
    What always struck me, and what I find hardest to understand, is this: how in the holy hell do you get to that point of completion with JTR and think, "nah, won't be releasing that." Ditto SUAD
    Probably the negativity from tLWS.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:04 PM   #114
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

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    As far as JTR, the only that remotely makes an ounce of sense is the fact that it was co-written with Santana, and a version was released on his Supernatural album.

    As far as Sweet Up and Down and Monkey Man, the only thing I can think is that they were deciding between those two and two others. Where Are You Going had to make it, as it was written with “hit” in mind, and You Never Know was the other. I think they could’ve fit SUAD on there as well, it would’ve made the album 58 minutes over 12 tracks rather than 54 minutes over 11 tracks. Big whoop. Monkey Man should’ve at least been played live or released on a bonus disc or some shit
    Wasn't it only released on the deluxe version of that album after the fact? I remember buying the actual CD and don't remember JTR on it.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:05 PM   #115
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

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    Doesn't look like that was in reply to anyone, either.

    Weird.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:07 PM   #116
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

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    Wasn't it only released on the deluxe version of that album after the fact? I remember buying the actual CD and don't remember JTR on it.
    Yeah I have the deluxe edition, it’s on disc two. The standard version only has Love of My Life. I assumed the standard and deluxe were released around the same time, no?
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #117
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Never mind, the deluxe didn’t come out until 2010


    Still, the Santan Co-writing credit may have had something to do with the decision to cut it
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:08 PM   #118
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    The Lillywhite Confessions would be a killer name for a documentary on this album.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:09 PM   #119
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

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    Originally Posted by Musicology200 View Post
    My guess is the songs were recorded to clear the pallet. They probably felt like they had unfinished work out there in the open. There's also the $$$ component to capitalizing on the material.
    All of this feels accurate, it just bothers me that I don't know. I almost included the $$$ aspect in my post but the $$$ opportunity existed the first go-around, too. What changed? Time elapsed, so I guess that's something. But Dave had already proven that he could pump out an album of hits in almost no time with Everyday, why bother returning to the tunes that nearly broke the band?
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    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.

    Last edited by CapnHani06; 06-19-2018 at 04:10 PM.
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    Old 06-19-2018, 04:13 PM   #120
    CapnHani06
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    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Location: San Francisco, CA
    Posts: 3,087

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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    Never mind, the deluxe didn’t come out until 2010


    Still, the Santan Co-writing credit may have had something to do with the decision to cut it
    I buy this - and it's possible that it was never even intended for a DMB release in the first place. Which is a little hard to fathom but that almost feels like a probable scenario given the timing and suddenly dropping it.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbnut21 View Post
    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.

    Last edited by CapnHani06; 06-19-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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