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Old 06-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #31
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Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

This stuff is so interesting to me, way more so than like a murder mystery or some crap like that. First getting in to the band, about 5-6 years ago, this part of the history is what turned me into a freak.

Its also crazy to me that at this point, the only live dmb releases were L@RR and Listener Supported
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  • Old 06-18-2018, 10:54 AM   #32
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    This stuff is so interesting to me, way more so than like a murder mystery or some crap like that. First getting in to the band, about 5-6 years ago, this part of the history is what turned me into a freak.

    Its also crazy to me that at this point, the only live dmb releases were L@RR and Listener Supported
    Yup. Listener Supported had just come out. Originally aired on PBS right around the time Dave did "Love of my Life" with Santana. We also had Live at Luther.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #33
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Around this time, I also remember getting listserve emails from the band where Lillywhite would comment on how "epic" Bartender would be on the new album. He was right in every way.

    I remember him hyping up Raven too.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 11:43 AM   #34
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joshg View Post
    Yup. Listener Supported had just come out. Originally aired on PBS right around the time Dave did "Love of my Life" with Santana. We also had Live at Luther.
    And to show my age, I was at that Listener Supported show. Sat behind the stage with a straight on view of Carter's drum set. Still a really good show from there.

    I do remember the Lillywhite Session leak very well and downloaded the songs on CD as soon as it leaked. I remember driving around jamming to those songs that summer, especially since most of them were being played in concert.

    Those were good times. I can only imagine if that album had been completed. I think it would have rivaled BTCS or even surpassed it. But in its current raw and unfinished form, it's still pretty magical.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:04 PM   #35
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crushme5 View Post
    And to show my age, I was at that Listener Supported show. Sat behind the stage with a straight on view of Carter's drum set. Still a really good show from there.

    I do remember the Lillywhite Session leak very well and downloaded the songs on CD as soon as it leaked. I remember driving around jamming to those songs that summer, especially since most of them were being played in concert.

    Those were good times. I can only imagine if that album had been completed. I think it would have rivaled BTCS or even surpassed it. But in its current raw and unfinished form, it's still pretty magical.
    If Bruce Flohr & his RCA flunkies would’ve just kept their noses out of Dave’s ass, how this world would’ve been so much different. Don’t fuck with a creative genius. So sad 😞.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:09 PM   #36
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveHead77 View Post
    If Bruce Flohr & his RCA flunkies would’ve just kept their noses out of Dave’s ass, how this world would’ve been so much different. Don’t fuck with a creative genius. So sad 😞.
    completely altered the band's trajectory....and not in a good way. it was the biggest turning point in the band's history.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #37
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lee3691 View Post
    The LWS were such a good album. I still disagree with the decision to change the verse order of BEF.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
    I know, I was raised on the LWS take of Big Eyed Fish (beginning "story of a man, whoooo..."), and when I finally heard a live version from like 2002 or 2003 I was like
    I'm still to this day distraught and confused by this. That feels like hyperbole but it's just not.

    The song flowed so damn well in its first iteration and cleverly resisted the natural temptation to lead with the phrase "big eyed fish" and to turn it into a guitar-driven song. To me, the decision to lower the pizzicato in the mix and rearrange the verse order stripped away all the subtly that made the LWS version so brilliant.

    I understand that it's a funny little image, Dave, but have a little patience! We'll get to that big eyed fish soon enough, no need to payoff the song title right out the gate! Set the stage and I promise we're here for it!

    And don't even get me started on that outro........
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    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:53 PM   #38
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaveHead77 View Post
    If Bruce Flohr & his RCA flunkies would’ve just kept their noses out of Dave’s ass, how this world would’ve been so much different. Don’t fuck with a creative genius. So sad 😞.
    Those sessions may have broken up the band, so I guess there's a silver lining to everything.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:55 PM   #39
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    ^ it might have, yeah. but they would have gone out with their best album to date. no question. then dave does a solo album - which was ED in a lot of ways, and the band would have gotten back together down the line. with 4 incredible albums, i would have been ok with that.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 12:58 PM   #40
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crushme5 View Post
    Those sessions may have broken up the band, so I guess there's a silver lining to everything.
    Yeah that’s how I look at it. I’m very grateful to be able to hear what he have from that period, but I truly believe it wasn’t meant to be finished. The raw quality along with the secrecy and mystery shrouding that “album” add to its wonder and greatness.

    Also, and this is notably quite greedy, but I’m glad the rest of the world has no fucking clue what the “Lillywhite Sessions” are. It’s a little secret that we as DMB fans get to have for ourselves.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 02:18 PM   #41
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    I still hold out hope that it was LeRoi who put them out and waited for people to find them. He could be subversive and strong-willed, I could see him saying "Fuck this, I'm putting it out."
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    Old 06-18-2018, 02:22 PM   #42
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
    I know, I was raised on the LWS take of Big Eyed Fish (beginning "story of a man, whoooo..."), and when I finally heard a live version from like 2002 or 2003 I was like
    Yes! This is still the version I sing along to, I never 'learned' the proper version. Should have left it alone.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joshg View Post
    Yup. Listener Supported had just come out. Originally aired on PBS right around the time Dave did "Love of my Life" with Santana. We also had Live at Luther.
    I still feel like there is an MTV performance of Santana and Dave that's not been digitized yet. Not the one with the dancing ladies, another one. Either that or I'm remembering incorrectly. I had it taped to VHS...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crushme5 View Post
    And to show my age, I was at that Listener Supported show. Sat behind the stage with a straight on view of Carter's drum set. Still a really good show from there.

    I do remember the Lillywhite Session leak very well and downloaded the songs on CD as soon as it leaked. I remember driving around jamming to those songs that summer, especially since most of them were being played in concert.

    Those were good times. I can only imagine if that album had been completed. I think it would have rivaled BTCS or even surpassed it. But in its current raw and unfinished form, it's still pretty magical.
    I was there, too. So amazing. They were on some uphill climb, I'll tell you what.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 02:44 PM   #43
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Oh I remember coming in during the beginning of the LWS clips release. There were clips of BIF, Monkey Man (which many ppl didn't believe to be a DMB track), Sweet Up & Down and a few others but not all of them. I got them from Napster looking for other DMB songs and my buddy who was and still is a huge DMB fan identified them for me. This was such a fun time to be a DMB and every recording sessions that DMB has done since reminds me of the LWS era. Good good times.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 04:19 PM   #44
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    It's so cool that a couple of you were at that PBS Listener Supported show.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 04:25 PM   #45
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    what always stood out about the LWS BEF is the de-evolution of the subject matter .. man -> monkey -> fish .. most complex to very much primitive, with an overlying arch that the lowest points of life, pessimism very well may be fundamental. song just always spoke to me on another level
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    Old 06-18-2018, 04:42 PM   #46
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    That arrangement of "Raven" to me was always superior. I liked the fluid lyrics changing bit by bit with each performance, what we got on BS was BS. Same crap happened to Joy Ride in the studio.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 04:49 PM   #47
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cry_minarets458 View Post
    what always stood out about the LWS BEF is the de-evolution of the subject matter .. man -> monkey -> fish .. most complex to very much primitive, with an overlying arch that the lowest points of life, pessimism very well may be fundamental. song just always spoke to me on another level
    Gawd, this times a million.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbnut21 View Post
    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 04:55 PM   #48
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    LWS versions of BEF, GIG, Bartender, and Captain (not to mention a completed Grey Street) would have been shoo-ins for Top 20 DMB studio songs of all time, and some even in the Top 10.

    I'm not adding anything new here. Just contributing to the daily LWS lament quota.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 05:06 PM   #49
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Fun story, thanks for sharing. Can't help though
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    Old 06-18-2018, 05:08 PM   #50
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sugarwill22 View Post
    Oh I remember coming in during the beginning of the LWS clips release. There were clips of BIF, Monkey Man (which many ppl didn't believe to be a DMB track), Sweet Up & Down and a few others but not all of them.
    Yes! This is what I was looking for, someone to remember these clips before the real release. Those were the clips I made by only getting partial downloads from that anonymous user on Napster. I leaked them to the message boards a few months later in a discussion.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 05:15 PM   #51
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    'Knapp received an apparently faked e-mail response from Lillywhite, giving Knapp approval to release the tracks via the Internet. Since Knapp only had a 56k dial-up modem, he decided to transfer the songs to someone with a lot of bandwidth who could host them. Using Napster, Knapp then sent the tracks to a fellow member of DMBML, Drew Wiley, who released over the Internet the 96 kbit/s MP3s. Within days, the tracks were also released as 128 kbit/s MP3s, and later as lossless SHN files.[4] The tracks made their way all over the internet via private servers and peer-to-peer programs like Napster. After the release of Everyday, which many fans complained was too "pop-ish", the leak of the Sessions gave some fans what they wanted—an album recorded much like older Dave Matthews Band material.'

    http://www.wikiwand.com/en/The_Lillywhite_Sessions

    Interesting! I know this was about the actual release (after what you're talking about) but still interesting.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 05:45 PM   #52
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mono View Post
    LWS versions of BEF, GIG, Bartender, and Captain (not to mention a completed Grey Street) would have been shoo-ins for Top 20 DMB studio songs of all time, and some even in the Top 10.

    I'm not adding anything new here. Just contributing to the daily LWS lament quota.
    captain off LWS is the best piece of music this band has even recorded in the studio....imo of course.

    the album would have eclipsed the preceding three, i have no doubt.
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    Last edited by comeandsee41; 06-18-2018 at 05:49 PM.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 05:55 PM   #53
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    I still think lillywhite should be given permission to finish the tracks. Put out the best version of what was laid down at the time.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 06:20 PM   #54
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    captain off LWS is the best piece of music this band has even recorded in the studio....imo of course.

    depressing as shit though!
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    Old 06-18-2018, 06:27 PM   #55
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RiotAct View Post
    depressing as shit though!
    oh for sure. but so raw and emotional. plus, musically, its hauntingly beautiful.
    to me, there's nothing better than 3:38-4:11.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 07:02 PM   #56
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    oh for sure. but so raw and emotional. plus, musically, its hauntingly beautiful.
    to me, there's nothing better than 3:38-4:11.
    That part is amazing. God, you just made me miss the old DMB even more.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 07:06 PM   #57
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz View Post
    That part is amazing. God, you just made me miss the old DMB even more.
    join the club.

    i just went back and listened to BEF based on what others mentioned in this thread. the outro, my god the outro.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 07:18 PM   #58
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by comeandsee41 View Post
    captain off LWS is the best piece of music this band has even recorded in the studio....imo of course.

    the album would have eclipsed the preceding three, i have no doubt.
    It would certainly be right there tied for #1 with BTCS, which is already a damn near flawless studio effort.

    A lot gets said about that Bartender, BEF, and Captain but I really, really dig the vibe that's coming off that GIG too. I think GIG works just fine as a campfire-guitar song the way it appears on BS and in D&T shows, but man o man that vibey thing it has going on in the LWS is just so fantastic and the outro is, again, haunting like so many others on that album were.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 07:47 PM   #59
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    The only good thing from
    Captain BS is the “how could I even try to fight after falling into your arms, mesmerized by your smile the way it lights up under your eyes”


    I know that’s the alpine Outro, could have sworn it’s on BS but I haven’t listened in awhile. One very lyrics post-LWS that is Dave’s best.
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    Old 06-18-2018, 07:50 PM   #60
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    Re: Lillywhite Sessions Confession/Story time

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz View Post
    'Knapp received an apparently faked e-mail response from Lillywhite, giving Knapp approval to release the tracks via the Internet. Since Knapp only had a 56k dial-up modem, he decided to transfer the songs to someone with a lot of bandwidth who could host them. Using Napster, Knapp then sent the tracks to a fellow member of DMBML, Drew Wiley, who released over the Internet the 96 kbit/s MP3s. Within days, the tracks were also released as 128 kbit/s MP3s, and later as lossless SHN files.[4] The tracks made their way all over the internet via private servers and peer-to-peer programs like Napster. After the release of Everyday, which many fans complained was too "pop-ish", the leak of the Sessions gave some fans what they wanted—an album recorded much like older Dave Matthews Band material.'

    http://www.wikiwand.com/en/The_Lillywhite_Sessions

    Interesting! I know this was about the actual release (after what you're talking about) but still interesting.

    I wrote that! I'd recognize that award winning prose anywhere


    anyway, back to the op, think the timing is off a bit - there was no LWS on Napster prior to the leak
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