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Old 09-15-2021, 03:05 PM   #6061
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Re: New Album Coming Soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.S. View Post
Let me reframe by defining a successful "road test" as taking a song that is mostly complete in the studio, playing it for a summer, then finalizing the recording with improvements discovered on the road.

Busted Stuff is the only example I can think of where this happened, but even then it doesn't really fit my description. Those songs were all but scrapped and then resurrected in what I'd consider to be a totally different form.

The 2016 songs didn't really change as far as I'm concerned. They could have released them before the tour as they were.

Idea of You and Can't Stop... how many years of "road testing" did they get?

My point is that this whole concept just seems like an excuse for not getting things done in the studio. Yes, "road testing" is, in a way, what gave us the Big 3, but I don't think that era really represents the same dynamic.
Drivel. This conversation has occurred so many times. Ponderous. Dave can't go into a studio and produce a great album with brand new songs anymore. How many bad albums does he need to produce in order for you to understand that?

Last edited by joshg; 09-15-2021 at 03:08 PM.
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  • Old 09-15-2021, 03:11 PM   #6062
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Edit: Or maybe he just has the absolute worst taste in song selections for an album from 2005 - present. He came up with 06/07 songs in a studio. Whatever it is, the guy can still write great songs. Has the world's worst ability to take his best stuff and put them on an album. Most frustrating part of being a fan of this band. But the music is great when it's great, so carry on.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 04:08 PM   #6063
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joshg View Post
    Edit: Or maybe he just has the absolute worst taste in song selections for an album from 2005 - present. He came up with 06/07 songs in a studio. Whatever it is, the guy can still write great songs. Has the world's worst ability to take his best stuff and put them on an album. Most frustrating part of being a fan of this band. But the music is great when it's great, so carry on.
    yes this really sums up the gist of it to me.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 06:39 PM   #6064
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Let’s not kid ourselves. The drop off in songwriting has nothing to do with road testing vs not. Dave is just a different songwriter now and has lost the creativity that made him once great. I’m not sure how much work ethic goes into it. He’s financially set for life, he has a family, he’s no longer involved in drugs (I can’t help but think this sparked a lot of his creativity). And in terms of road testing the band is way too polished and formulaic now to play something that’s new and half baked. Times have changed people. I am not at all wishing for the end of DMB and I can’t explain why I feel this way…but I can see Dave rediscovering some level of greatness in his late career as a solo artist. I think he has another Some Devil in him
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    Old 09-15-2021, 06:59 PM   #6065
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    The whole concept of "road testing" is pure fan fiction.

    DMB wrote prolifically for a couple years and played the songs they wrote live. By the time they signed a record deal, they already had a ton of songs in the pipeline. Some were allocated to the first record, others to the second. At one point, their rate of record production outpaced their ability to write new songs to perform live (due to their record contract), thus necessitating in-studio composition. This also coincided with becoming an even more commercially successful band from a sales perspective, which ushered in a new era of expectations, process changes, and scrutiny. They had to write even faster to keep up with demand, and radio-friendly tunes/hit singles were the price of admission to maintain their level of stardom. All of this put a ton of pressure on Dave as a songwriter and I think it wore on themóeventually culminating in the LWS blowup and further manifesting in the 2007 near-breakup. I know there were a ton of other interpersonal variables at play here, but the point is this: there was never a golden era in which Dave wrote songs to perform live for the purpose of tweaking for an album. In fact, I think Dave would scoff at that thought because I bet that he would claim that he just writes songs with no other purpose than to write a song. Sometimes they wind up on an album, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they evolve live, sometimes they don't. But we sure do place a lot of emphasis on a songwriting process that, from I can tell, was never intentional and exists entirely in our minds.

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    Quote:
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    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 07:03 PM   #6066
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Originally Posted by Dankguitar View Post
    Letís not kid ourselves. The drop off in songwriting has nothing to do with road testing vs not. Dave is just a different songwriter now and has lost the creativity that made him once great. Iím not sure how much work ethic goes into it. Heís financially set for life, he has a family, heís no longer involved in drugs (I canít help but think this sparked a lot of his creativity). And in terms of road testing the band is way too polished and formulaic now to play something thatís new and half baked. Times have changed people. I am not at all wishing for the end of DMB and I canít explain why I feel this wayÖbut I can see Dave rediscovering some level of greatness in his late career as a solo artist. I think he has another Some Devil in him
    Hard to disagree with a lot in here. I don't think work ethic is a factor, but I do agree that they've lost a lot of their incentive to push the envelope and do something new. Complacency is real and, as talented and professional as these dudes are, they are no exception to the rule.
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    Quote:
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    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 07:05 PM   #6067
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CapnHani06 View Post
    The whole concept of "road testing" is pure fan fiction.

    DMB wrote prolifically for a couple years and played the songs they wrote live. By the time they signed a record deal, they already had a ton of songs in the pipeline. Some were allocated to the first record, others to the second. At one point, their rate of record production outpaced their ability to write new songs to perform live (due to their record contract), thus necessitating in-studio composition. This also coincided with becoming an even more commercially successful band from a sales perspective, which ushered in a new era of expectations, process changes, and scrutiny. They had to write even faster to keep up with demand, and radio-friendly tunes/hit singles were the price of admission to maintain their level of stardom. All of this put a ton of pressure on Dave as a songwriter and I think it wore on themóeventually culminating in the LWS blowup and further manifesting in the 2007 near-breakup. I know there were a ton of other interpersonal variables at play here, but the point is this: there was never a golden era in which Dave wrote songs to perform live for the purpose of tweaking for an album. In fact, I think Dave would scoff at that thought because I bet that he would claim that he just writes songs with no other purpose than to write a song. Sometimes they wind up on an album, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they evolve live, sometimes they don't. But we sure do place a lot of emphasis on a songwriting process that, from I can tell, was never intentional and exists entirely in our minds.

    Thank you for coming to my TedTalk.
    There's more truth to it than you think. Dave used the road in '04, '06, '07 to develop a bunch of songs. There's no denying it. Do you remember what the first Shotgun sounded like? Do you remember the lyrical iterations Idea of You went through? Lyrics for Shotgun? Lyrics for Crazy Easy? Lyrics for JoyRide?
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    Old 09-15-2021, 07:08 PM   #6068
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joshg View Post
    There's more truth to it than you think. Dave used the road in '04, '06, '07 to develop a bunch of songs. There's no denying it. Do you remember what the first Shotgun sounded like? Do you remember the lyrical iterations Idea of You went through? Lyrics for Shotgun? Lyrics for Crazy Easy? Lyrics for JoyRide?
    Oh, there's no denying that songs evolve on the road. I think Dave really loves that aspect of playing live, and continually writing on the road is what these guys were born to do. What I'm saying is that he's just live composing because that's what he loves to do, not because he has some mad scientist approach to writing new songs for an album.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbnut21 View Post
    I got 16 CDs in the mail on Saturday. I am now going door to door asking people if they have found Dave and accepted him into their lives. If they say no I hand them a CD. My neighbors think I'm a little off but they seem to like the music.

    Last edited by CapnHani06; 09-15-2021 at 07:09 PM.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 07:14 PM   #6069
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CapnHani06 View Post
    Oh, there's no denying that songs evolve on the road. I think Dave really loves that aspect of playing live, and continually writing on the road is what these guys were born to do. What I'm saying is that he's just live composing because that's what he loves to do, not because he has some mad scientist approach to writing new songs for an album.
    Right.

    Simply put, it could have easily been the Big 6 if he put the '04 through '07 songs on two albums.

    Sometimes I've thought that he deliberately did not put his best songwriting from '04 - '07 on albums to keep asses in seats for the potential of these "rarities" in a live setting.

    Like a current Sweet Up and Down
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    Old 09-15-2021, 09:27 PM   #6070
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
    I honestly do not know anything specific regarding timeline. It's probably fair.

    It would not shock me to see it pre-December 2021, though. There are certainly rumblings.
    A mid November release would be amazing.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 10:18 PM   #6071
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Originally Posted by joshg View Post
    Right.

    Simply put, it could have easily been the Big 6 if he put the '04 through '07 songs on two albums.

    Sometimes I've thought that he deliberately did not put his best songwriting from '04 - '07 on albums to keep asses in seats for the potential of these "rarities" in a live setting.

    Like a current Sweet Up and Down
    Yep. 12345
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    Old 09-15-2021, 10:33 PM   #6072
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    A mid November release would be amazing.
    To coincide with MSG shows, that would be great. But we're getting close to when they'd need to make an announcement. They usually have a couple months for promotion/pre-order, etc.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 10:37 PM   #6073
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Yep. 12345
    Feelin that. 678910.
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    Old 09-15-2021, 10:58 PM   #6074
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    To coincide with MSG shows, that would be great. But we're getting close to when they'd need to make an announcement. They usually have a couple months for promotion/pre-order, etc.
    Right. And we havenít seen any traces of them recording during the tour other than day 1 back in July. The ďrumblingsĒ are encouraging but it sounds like theyíd need to really hustle to get it done before December.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 12:55 AM   #6075
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Think we get too critical at times, me included

    Songs like- samurai cop, here on out, singing from the windows, again and again, Virginia in the rain, walking on the moon etc are all very good recently written songs, and I think people fall victim to setlists too much in these regards

    All the songs I mentioned are great written songs all with different meanings- Dave wrote a song about covid better than anything I’ve heard on the subject. He wrote a song about tripping on mushrooms apparently in the same year

    These songs are still unique to dmb from anything else I hear out there, and sometimes I feel like people just write them off because of being overplayed

    Take it for what it’s worth, a good song is a good song and leave it at that
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    Old 09-16-2021, 07:00 AM   #6076
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Think we get too critical at times, me included

    Songs like- samurai cop, here on out, singing from the windows, again and again, Virginia in the rain, walking on the moon etc are all very good recently written songs, and I think people fall victim to setlists too much in these regards

    All the songs I mentioned are great written songs all with different meanings- Dave wrote a song about covid better than anything Iíve heard on the subject. He wrote a song about tripping on mushrooms apparently in the same year

    These songs are still unique to dmb from anything else I hear out there, and sometimes I feel like people just write them off because of being overplayed

    Take it for what itís worth, a good song is a good song and leave it at that
    Agreed, 100%.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 07:01 AM   #6077
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kelchlsm View Post
    Think we get too critical at times, me included

    Songs like- samurai cop, here on out, singing from the windows, again and again, Virginia in the rain, walking on the moon etc are all very good recently written songs, and I think people fall victim to setlists too much in these regards

    All the songs I mentioned are great written songs all with different meanings- Dave wrote a song about covid better than anything Iíve heard on the subject. He wrote a song about tripping on mushrooms apparently in the same year

    These songs are still unique to dmb from anything else I hear out there, and sometimes I feel like people just write them off because of being overplayed

    Take it for what itís worth, a good song is a good song and leave it at that
    ^^^^agreed re: good tunes. They certainly exist and have been both on albums released and on albums forthcoming. Iím a fan of the above songs for example - good tunes. Ocean and butterfly is good too.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 07:03 AM   #6078
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kelchlsm View Post
    Think we get too critical at times, me included

    Songs like- samurai cop, here on out, singing from the windows, again and again, Virginia in the rain, walking on the moon etc are all very good recently written songs, and I think people fall victim to setlists too much in these regards

    All the songs I mentioned are great written songs all with different meanings- Dave wrote a song about covid better than anything Iíve heard on the subject. He wrote a song about tripping on mushrooms apparently in the same year

    These songs are still unique to dmb from anything else I hear out there, and sometimes I feel like people just write them off because of being overplayed

    Take it for what itís worth, a good song is a good song and leave it at that
    Theyíd be better appreciated as Dave solo songs which is why I said he has the ability to still write a great solo album. In the context of DMB these songs just seem less exciting
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    Old 09-16-2021, 07:34 AM   #6079
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    It’s encouraging to see Bruce’s reference to studio TOT perhaps including the Buddy/Tim duel. That feels indicative of an openness in their recording approach.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 08:48 AM   #6080
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Iím not sure I would take the Buddy/Tim solos on TOT as evidence that theyíre going with a more open approach to where they will let tracks breathe and extend out more. Thatís a pretty small solo section. I need to see/hear more.

    I say this not knowing what literally any other song truly sounds like on this album.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 09:29 AM   #6081
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Iím not sure I would take the Buddy/Tim solos on TOT as evidence that theyíre going with a more open approach to where they will let tracks breathe and extend out more. Thatís a pretty small solo section. I need to see/hear more.

    I say this not knowing what literally any other song truly sounds like on this album.
    Yeah, I would've been shocked if that solo section didn't make the album cut. That back-and-forth feels too constructed not to be a part of the studio song.
    However, I do hope we get the same outro on WATM in the studio.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 10:28 AM   #6082
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Yeah, I would've been shocked if that solo section didn't make the album cut. That back-and-forth feels too constructed not to be a part of the studio song.
    However, I do hope we get the same outro on WATM in the studio.
    Yes yes into Bismarck.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 11:05 AM   #6083
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    Originally Posted by Tomacco View Post
    Yeah, I would've been shocked if that solo section didn't make the album cut. That back-and-forth feels too constructed not to be a part of the studio song.
    However, I do hope we get the same outro on WATM in the studio.
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    Yes yes into Bismarck.
    WATM going into Bismarck is probably a pipe dream we conjured based on a total coincidence, but itís one of the best ideas I could think of. How cool would WATM>> Bismarck be in rotation for shows in the future?

    I hope WATMís outro is on the album too, but when CT was first played, that had an extended outro as well but the track was 4:45. I think we have to be prepared for that here too.
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    Old 09-16-2021, 09:44 PM   #6084
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    I'm pretty surprised we haven't heard more new tunes this summer tbh
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    Old 09-17-2021, 06:31 AM   #6085
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    I'm pretty surprised we haven't heard more new tunes this summer tbh
    Doesnít entirely surprise me - if an album really is in the hopper, to have already played 4 songs from it, youíre likely playing a decent chunk (~25% of it) on the road before even announcing a dateÖ.donít wanna just play it all before the record buying public can actually purchase it. Thatís just speculation, but yeah. You have to remember that after taking last summer off due to the pandemic that Dave also is seemingly a bit in people pleaser mode and wanting to construct lots of ďfeel goodĒ sets with songs fans know and love (highly debatable if heís getting that right what with BAYOU popping up as often as it does). That said, Iím sure theyíre itching to do more new tunes but imo holding back a bit, just announce the damn thing, assuming itís ready (always up in the air in their world).

    Have to remember, even though dmb is relatively old school, they can announce the album at any time and drop it digitally first at any time. This is 2021 weíre living inÖ
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    Old 09-17-2021, 08:51 AM   #6086
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

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    I'm pretty surprised we haven't heard more new tunes this summer tbh
    Another sign itís being held back for a specific marketing plan/timeline.

    Could the MSG shows just coincide with the single release and album be announced late October for December holiday timeframe release and full winter tour?
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    Old 09-17-2021, 09:03 AM   #6087
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    I think I said this last December when people were convinced an album would drop in January or February. DMB is a business and there isn't going to be an alum without a huge marketing push. I don't see any chance that an album is dropped this year. It would have been announced by now. Most likely, we will get an announcement in January when they announce 2022 dates. It'll hype of the tour and they will use the tour to promote the album. I hope I'm wrong.
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    Old 09-17-2021, 09:25 AM   #6088
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    I think I said this last December when people were convinced an album would drop in January or February. DMB is a business and there isn't going to be an alum without a huge marketing push. I don't see any chance that an album is dropped this year. It would have been announced by now. Most likely, we will get an announcement in January when they announce 2022 dates. It'll hype of the tour and they will use the tour to promote the album. I hope I'm wrong.
    Youíre probably right. Bet next year the tour will start in April and will be an album tour.
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    Old 09-17-2021, 09:31 AM   #6089
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    I don't really agree with the "they're a business, so they won't drop an album without a heavy promo tour" line of thinking

    yeah, they like having something to promote, but it's not a matter of selling--I think they just like to have new stuff to play. they gave away the vast majority of come tomorrow's "sales." it's not a money-making thing for them (hence my disagreement with the "DMB is a business" argument specifically; I don't disagree with the thought that they like to tour to "support" a new album, which is really just their excuse for playing the shit out of one).
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    Old 09-17-2021, 09:51 AM   #6090
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    Re: New Album Coming Soon?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by deadendstreet View Post
    I think I said this last December when people were convinced an album would drop in January or February. DMB is a business and there isn't going to be an alum without a huge marketing push. I don't see any chance that an album is dropped this year. It would have been announced by now. Most likely, we will get an announcement in January when they announce 2022 dates. It'll hype of the tour and they will use the tour to promote the album. I hope I'm wrong.
    The thing is, the push for CT was not that huge...possibly the smallest since they broke nationally. Itís safe to say thatís reflective of the band & mgmt recognizing the size and needs of their fan base. Dave also mentioned the cost of recording and promoting a few time...it costing them money and suggesting the ROI wasnít worth a big push.

    And now we live in an era of the anti-marketing push. Big names just drop albums w/o warning. I been hoping for that for months now, but there seems to be some notion of perfecting things. I thought they might drop something before Xmas, then to kick off the new year...but not Xmas 2021 or 2022 as the new year. Also, Iím not sure how much new music can or will hype the next tour unless they stop playing new tunes and do not introduce any new tunes until that tour. Folks around these part (ants) didnít like CT and werenít enthusiastic about hearing the tunes live. New album tours mean about six new songs a night. Many here regularly state that Dave rarely writes good songs anymore and they essentially donít want to hear new music from the band...so weíll see how it all plays out.
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