Past Fantasy Tour Threads and Memories

[PantalaNagaMan]

Originally Posted by taparoo

That's fine by me, but I can see a few people with 'cover song' getting a little pissy...

And that is why this is so hard...Because literaly it IS a cover..I feel it should recieve Cover Points...The argument is the Opening Situation....

I think the only solution is how the almanac does it...If it does open...

Both Cover Song and DDTW recieve opening points.

[bradshaw06]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

And that is why this is so hard...Because literaly it IS a cover..I feel it should recieve Cover Points...The argument is the Opening Situation....

I think the only solution is how the almanac does it...If it does open...

Both Cover Song and DDTW recieve opening points.

i agree
this seems like the best way to go about it. i say no matter what, for any song, go by the almanac

[Minarets#40]

Originally Posted by bradshaw06

i agree
this seems like the best way to go about it. i say no matter what, for any song, go by the almanac

I still think the Still Water situation is bullshit. It was ambiguous before the tour, which greatly affected how I drafted songs. And it's still a little rediculous and ambiguous now. Plus, DMB clearly doesn't consider it to be noteworthy, as the setlist scan clearly shows.

Also, going by the almanac seems like a bad idea. I've been saying it all along and no one has listened to a word I've said. The almanac often changes their minds about what counts as a tease or what counts as a full song. They've done it with Still Water before. They do it with #40 all the time. Basically, there's huge potential for a shows points to change later on, and we may or may not catch the change, and we may end up with some unhappy people because of it.

On the other hand, the DMB Roadpage NEVER changes their setlist. They do distinguish between partials and full songs though, but it's definite, and in a game like this, you need something definite.

[maya]

do we have any other setlists that have had stillwater>>ddtw on it??

[DMBgirl87]

Still Water = Cover Song...Get over it...

You can only get points for Cover Song once in a show anyways....

[DMBgirl87]

11 points for me bitches :-)

I will change So Rights scores when I get to my laptop

[PantalaNagaMan]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

I still think the Still Water situation is bullshit. It was ambiguous before the tour, which greatly affected how I drafted songs. And it's still a little rediculous and ambiguous now. Plus, DMB clearly doesn't consider it to be noteworthy, as the setlist scan clearly shows.

Also, going by the almanac seems like a bad idea. I've been saying it all along and no one has listened to a word I've said. The almanac often changes their minds about what counts as a tease or what counts as a full song. They've done it with Still Water before. They do it with #40 all the time. Basically, there's huge potential for a shows points to change later on, and we may or may not catch the change, and we may end up with some unhappy people because of it.

On the other hand, the DMB Roadpage NEVER changes their setlist. They do distinguish between partials and full songs though, but it's definite, and in a game like this, you need something definite.

On the other hand John, a lot of people did take Cover Song early (Maya and others) with the intentions that Still Water counts for them. And if were being honest "Still Water" is in fact a Cover Song.

Most 40's are a minute tops, this is never less than four minutes.

Though it seems ambigious, were looking out for the good of the league and not just the good of a person buddy.

For confirmation on Still Water, we will just have to wait untill the next morning to score it.

My rules -

Two verses and a chorus, and if the song includes more than 3 band members, its a song.

Which on 7/8 - it was the most full version I have ever heard of the song. More intense Carter, lots of Fonz, wailing by Dave, and a more upbeat guitar part.

[PantalaNagaMan]

Originally Posted by DMBgirl87

11 points for me bitches :-)

I will change So Rights scores when I get to my laptop

No your only at 9

Two Step - 4 pts.
The Last Stop - 0 pts.
Cover Song - 2 pts
One Sweet World - 3 pts.
I'll Back You Up - 0 pts.
Down By The River - 0 pts.
HFTGL - 0 pts.

[taparoo]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

On the other hand John, a lot of people did take Cover Song early (Maya and others) with the intentions that Still Water counts for them. And if were being honest "Still Water" is in fact a Cover Song.

Most 40's are a minute tops, this is never less than four minutes.

Though it seems ambigious, were looking out for the good of the league and not just the good of a person buddy.

For confirmation on Still Water, we will just have to wait untill the next morning to score it.

My rules -

Two verses and a chorus, and if the song includes more than 3 band members, its a song.

Which on 7/8 - it was the most full version I have ever heard of the song. More intense Carter, lots of Fonz, wailing by Dave, and a more upbeat guitar part.

I think it should still be considered a song even though it may be Dave solo or just Dave/Carter. I mean, it's still a song, just with less people playing. The two verse & a chorus sounds good to me though.

[Semper454]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

I still think the Still Water situation is bullshit. It was ambiguous before the tour, which greatly affected how I drafted songs. And it's still a little rediculous and ambiguous now. Plus, DMB clearly doesn't consider it to be noteworthy, as the setlist scan clearly shows.

I don't recall the Still Water situation being ambiguous at all. I went after DDTW early specifically because it was said that Still Water did not count against DDTW in opening slots, using the reasoning that it was just a tease. Sure, it should count for "cover song" points, but we can't change rules now. Still Water should not count as an opener.

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

Also, going by the almanac seems like a bad idea.

Every time a partial/tease is played, it's extremely trivial. Almanac's decisions are no more concrete than anyone else on this board. Songs need to be left up to interpretation each time they are played. Either way, Almanac should definitely not be our final source for this game.

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

On the other hand John, a lot of people did take Cover Song early (Maya and others) with the intentions that Still Water counts for them.

I would say they should have read the rules a little better.....

[Semper454]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

Just some information for everybody!

The draft is tonight, be ready. If you can't make it, don't complain about your picks...we're going to be completely fair.

Scoring seems to be a question.

The highest you can get for a song on any night is 5...That's if Group D is played. Say Two Step is played, and it closes. You do not get the 3 point for the play and the four points for the spot....You get 4 points, for Two Step closing.

The new grouping of songs has Help Myself added to Group C, Jimi Thing added to group B, and "Cover Songs" added to group B. Cover Songs are a blanket, that can be used for ANY cover song during the course of a tour.

Which leads me to my next statement: (Still Water) does not count as an opener. You don't come home from a show saying, "Fucking right...I got a (Still Water) opener into Don't Drink The Water"...It's just an intro that probably won't be around forever....So Don't Drink The Water is the official opener in that bunch.

When drafting tonight, TRY, TRY, TRY to keep discussion to a minimum while someone is picking...Just so it doesn't confuse anybody.

There are absolutely no trades in this game. The only moves your allowed is picking up and dropping songs during a tour...Which your allowed to do five times. But remember, once you drop a song...you can never pick that song back up.

Let's keep this fun and make it interesting so it sticks around for a while!

Hope everyones excited.

Jantz

That's from 6/12/2007, before any drafts began.

for a link:
http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/sh...1&postcount=23

End of discussion.

[maya]

Can i just say, i full well knew that Still Water wasn't going to count. Which is why i'm not lobbying for it to go through.

I just want this argument to be clarified ASAP so we can stop confusing everyone else.

That is all

seriously, three points, no points. i don't care, i just want this to run well so people don't go 'fuck this shit' and not play anymore

[trpnwillie]

I'm just joining the conversation and trying to figure out where I sit...

On one hand, Still Water is clearly a cover.

On the other, if it's only an intro but counts as an opener... I'd like Pantala Naga Pampa when it becomes available.

Lastly, It's my opinion that there can only be one opener. You can't have two openers for one show.

[jsilvia2]

Originally Posted by Semper454

I don't recall the Still Water situation being ambiguous at all. I went after DDTW early specifically because it was said that Still Water did not count against DDTW in opening slots, using the reasoning that it was just a tease. Sure, it should count for "cover song" points, but we can't change rules now. Still Water should not count as an opener.

this is the same strategy i used

[PantalaNagaMan]

Voting ends tommorow at 10 central time in the Still Water poll...Whatever it is, it is...

Deal?

[bradshaw06]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

Voting ends tommorow at 10 central time in the Still Water poll...Whatever it is, it is...

Deal?

i dont think thats very fair, only because everyone that votes against it does not have cover song as one of there songs. theres only probably 10 that will actually vote yes

[DMBgirl87]

WAIT WHAT?!?!? I thought Still Water was going to be Cover Song...seriously dudes figure it the fuck out before I don't want to play anymore!

[Minarets#40]

To be fair, the people in here who have lobbied for it are:

Bradshaw, DMBgirl87, (Maya) - all three have Still Water. coincidence?


() indicates a partial goind after it.


I also agree that a poll is a bad approach. Jantz, you said some things specifically before the first show and before the draft saying that Still Water wouldn't really count. If people don't read those, fine, but it's not fair to go back on that rule. I still stand by what I said.

[maya]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

To be fair, the people in here who have lobbied for it are:

Bradshaw, DMBgirl87, (Maya) - all three have Still Water. coincidence?


() indicates a partial goind after it.


I also agree that a poll is a bad approach. Jantz, you said some things specifically before the first show and before the draft saying that Still Water wouldn't really count. If people don't read those, fine, but it's not fair to go back on that rule. I still stand by what I said.

I don't lobby for shit. I lobby to get it sorted right the fuck out ok. I don't give a flying fuck what it is or isn't.

[Minarets#40]

Originally Posted by maya

I don't lobby for shit. I lobby to get it sorted right the fuck out ok. I don't give a flying fuck what it is or isn't.

I know... the () partial was to make a point. I'm not trying to drag you into it. I apologize.

If Still Water is going to count, it should be it's own song, because at the rate it's played it's unfair to stick it under the blanket of "cover song"

[bradshaw06]

i dont care if its counted as an opener, but it really should count as a cover song. Why? because it is a cover song. it is not a tease or anything like that, because they are playing the song in full.

[bradshaw06]

to add, before the tour we only considered still water a tease, hence the (Still Water). but now we can see that it is a full song that is being played.

[maya]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

I know... the () partial was to make a point. I'm not trying to drag you into it. I apologize.

Then i still love you

[taparoo]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

I know... the () partial was to make a point. I'm not trying to drag you into it. I apologize.

If Still Water is going to count, it should be it's own song, because at the rate it's played it's unfair to stick it under the blanket of "cover song"

why? You only count one cover song per show anyway if you have 'cover song'. I could see if you were making a point of it opening, but even then it doesn't open every show when it's played.

[Minarets#40]

Interesting Stat:

DDTW was picked before Cover song in EVERY LEAGUE.

with the current ruling, let's consider this - three possible situations:

- Still Water > DDTW opens the show
Cover Song: 3 points (unless they have both)
DDTW: 3 points

- Still Water > DDTW midset
Cover Song: 2 points
DDTW: 2 points

- Still Water > DDTW not played
Cover Song: 0 points (with the opportunity to still score if another cover is played)
DDTW: 0 points


There is no situation in which DDTW is more valuable than Cover Song. The only way is if they play DDTW without Still Water, which btw has only been done once this year. Therefore there's no reason people should have picked DDTW before Still Water. However, it happened in EVERY LEAGUE (including Jantz himself picking DDTW first round)


Meanwhile, they have also played Still Water before Bartender, which for the record I DO think should count as Cover Song. However, calling the Still Water > DDTW segue 2 songs is like calling PNP > Rapunzel two different songs.

[DMBgirl87]

Originally Posted by Minarets#40

I know... the () partial was to make a point. I'm not trying to drag you into it. I apologize.

If Still Water is going to count, it should be it's own song, because at the rate it's played it's unfair to stick it under the blanket of "cover song"

The way cover song was originally explained to me, is the only reason I took it...It sucks and it's not going to get any points....it's bullshit.

[PantalaNagaMan]

So far we have the following thoughts:

A.) My personal thought - Still Water is in fact a song that is not theirs and they are doing a version of it - therefore it is a "Cover Song"

but...

B.) It has been, and probably will be nothing short of a glorified intro to Don't Drink The Water

So what do we do about the situation? - How about those who selected "Cover Song"...if they would like to...can take, "New Song" instead, which is also worth 2 points and blankets any new song (1 per show) that comes up during the year. The ones who selected Cover Song with intentions for Still Water have the first shot and obtaining it. Any takers?

If there are any other ideas, please feel free to contact me.....It's the first season for this and we knew there were going to be problems...Now let's just fix it, to make it better for the future.

[zeppelinman]

Why don't we just go with what we had before the draft, being that still water does not get points for being an opener. I know I am partly saying this because I have DDTW but come on, its obviously just an intro since it isn't even written out on the setlist scans.

[WiseManSay]

Anyone want to explain this Still Water thing to me? I know I'm behind but all this debating is kinda silly. It's my understanding that:

- it is only used as an intro to DDTW.
- it is not played as the full version
- yet people want it to count as cover song and opener points?

Am I correct in assuming this? And if I am, why should it count for anything?

1. If it is not played in full it doesn't get any points. Just like #40.
2. It isn't listed as an opener on the official setlist, opener points go to DDTW.
3. There are outros that are partial covers. Why not count them then?

People who have cover song already have an advantage as it can count as different songs night to night.

My two cents.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

I don't have cover song, but it seems wrong to have fooled everyone who did choose it. Lets just change the rules for the playoffs and let them all get Still Water for the season, but it can only be used once a show. 2 covers or more wouldn't count. Sound good?