Sexual Abuse/Harassment Thread

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

I read a story where she kept saying no and he kept trying to coerce her. In her story:

“Let’s relax for a sec, let’s chill.’”

“He really kept (guiding her hand to his genitals) after I moved it away.”

“I stopped moving my lips and turned cold.”

“I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn’t interested. I don’t think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored.”

“I said I don’t want to feel forced because then I’ll hate you, and I’d rather not hate you.”

“After he bent me over is when I stood up and said no, I don’t think I’m ready to do this, I really don’t think I’m going to do this.”

The word no is in those quotes once and isn't that when things completely ended?

[coldengrey12]

Every action she describes reads to me as a nonverbal no.

"I stopped moving my lips and turned cold" does not sound like a woman who wants this to happen.

Do you think a woman (or anybody, really) who "turned cold" sounds like someone turned on?

[coldengrey12]

Also, none of those actions are a loud, enthusiastic yes.

[Rodey]

Think the key here is that she could have left several times, including after the first time, but hung around.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Every action she describes reads to me as a nonverbal no.

"I stopped moving my lips and turned cold" does not sound like a woman who wants this to happen.

Do you think a woman (or anybody, really) who "turned cold" sounds like someone turned on?

Sure, but this also comes with the assumption that her actions were as clear as she's making it sound. Were they? Who knows, and I think most dudes would understand, but if anything comes from this story it should be:

If you don't want something to continue/happen, say something and make sure it is clearly known. Problem solved. Otherwise, things like this will continue to happen because hooking up, in general (especially for the first time), can come with the possibility of a lot of awkward/confusing interactions that are not always clear or obvious.

[sbuzzz]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Every action she describes reads to me as a nonverbal no.

"I stopped moving my lips and turned cold" does not sound like a woman who wants this to happen.

Do you think a woman (or anybody, really) who "turned cold" sounds like someone turned on?

I don't really want to get into anything that would come off as victim blaming, but as to the "turned cold" comment, it reads like someone trying to punch up something they are writing to make it sound more impactful. But so does the complaining opabout the wine and he rushing through the check. I don't understand why she went back to his place if she felt those things.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

"Only these allegations that I, Lee3691, approve of count as real allegations."

An ugly guy talked to me - I am a victim of sexual assault

[JRS1386]

Reading non-verbal cues are not always the easiest things. And like someone else said once the no was stated it seemed things ended. I am not going to be quick to lump Aziz in the category of sexual assault

[TheLastStop123]

One of the bizarre parts was her saying she was thinking he would want to play with her hair. I think sometimes men/women have expectations of who they want someone to be based on preconceived notions.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by TheLastStop123

One of the bizarre parts was her saying she was thinking he would want to play with her hair. I think sometimes men/women have expectations of who they want someone to be based on preconceived notions.

Definitely. When discussing this case with my wife, and my SIL last night, both of them focused on that point. I have known a few women who have been victims of sexual assault, and not one of them wanted the guy to play with their hair afterwards.

[M. Steng]

I fully support the whole outing perverts and predators movement but the whole Aziz thing seems very forced and almost pre-planned by this girl. Even the text she wrote to him the next day was filled with all the buzzwords and triggers that would make this into a story. Like, real people don't use the words "You ignored clear nonverbal cues" in everyday conversation. Even the fact that she texted him back seems weird to me; if someone just sexually assaulted you like 10 hours ago would you really want to talk to that person and communicate with them? Shouldn't you be talking to the police?

Thank the Lord I'm married, having sex in 2018 as a single person seems impossible.

[mandy18]

Originally Posted by smokew11

she cried in the car. not while they were together.

a girl I'm friends with on facebook just posted this op-ed in the #failingnyt . she's a staunch feminist and she agrees with this take. it was interesting

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/1...m.facebook.com

What's more telling in this article are these statistics:

"A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment."


Seriously?

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by mandy18

What's more telling in this article are these statistics:

"A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment."


Seriously?

We are moving (rapidly) toward an age where strangers won't interact with each other anymore except on the internet.

Not good.

[M. Steng]

Originally Posted by cazzie34

We are moving (rapidly) toward an age where strangers won't interact with each other anymore except on the internet.

Not good.

Yeah, I've seen statistics on this sort of thing, like about how frequently people will strike up a conversation with a stranger while sitting at a bar, in line at the grocery store, etc. Surprisingly low and it probably comes from this sort of instilled fear of the unknown. Guy strikes up a convo at the bar? Must want to rape you and put your head in his freezer, happened on SVU so it could happen to me.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by TheLastStop123

One of the bizarre parts was her saying she was thinking he would want to play with her hair. I think sometimes men/women have expectations of who they want someone to be based on preconceived notions.

dont most women want to cuddle after sex...ual assault?

Originally Posted by mandy18

What's more telling in this article are these statistics:

"A recent survey by The Economist/YouGov found that approximately 25 percent of millennial-age American women think asking someone for a drink is harassment. More than a third say that if a man compliments a woman’s looks it is harassment."


Seriously?

yeah I was going to post that quote in relation to dating in 2018, its ridiculius

[diableri]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

I fully support the whole outing perverts and predators movement but the whole Aziz thing seems very forced and almost pre-planned by this girl. Even the text she wrote to him the next day was filled with all the buzzwords and triggers that would make this into a story. Like, real people don't use the words "You ignored clear nonverbal cues" in everyday conversation. Even the fact that she texted him back seems weird to me; if someone just sexually assaulted you like 10 hours ago would you really want to talk to that person and communicate with them? Shouldn't you be talking to the police?

Thank the Lord I'm married, having sex in 2018 as a single person seems impossible.

It’s not the sex part that’s tough, it’s the finding normal, well adjusted adults to have sex with that presents the problem.

[Lee3691]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01...r-banfield.hln

Ashley Banfield nails it. There is hope that there seems to be women speaking up against this nonsense and not falling for the trap that even some guys in here have fallen for.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2018/01...r-banfield.hln

Ashley Banfield nails it. There is hope that there seems to be women speaking up against this nonsense and not falling for the trap that even some guys in here have fallen for.

Yeah, there seemed to be a lot wrong with "Grace's" story and I'm glad that people are calling that out.

[smokew11]

[Tiduwho]

Why is it that MSU is not getting killed in the media?

Coach after coach after coach covered for this guy for over 20 years. Threatened students not to say anything. This is borderline Penn State level sickening corruption (no one can take their crown but). How in God's name is MSU not getting roasted in the media????

[maxatlof]

Originally Posted by Tiduwho

Why is it that MSU is not getting killed in the media?

Coach after coach after coach covered for this guy for over 20 years. Threatened students not to say anything. This is borderline Penn State level sickening corruption (no one can take their crown but). How in God's name is MSU not getting roasted in the media????

I hate to say it, but its not getting the same attention because it doesn't evolve around the football program like Penn St did. You'd think in today's climate with how aware and sensitive to this subject everyone is this would be like gasoline on a fire. But it doesn't seem to be moving the needle since it's womens gymnastics and not football that its all revolving around. And fwiw, this seems to be much worse and go way, way deeper (forgive the pun) than the Sandusky/Penn St situation.

[WidespreadMule3]

The more I read about the Aziz story I really hope Babe gets buried. There are conversations to be had from what occurred but in no way, shape or form was this a national scandal that "Grace" and Babe tried to make it.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by WidespreadMule3

The more I read about the Aziz story I really hope Babe gets buried. There are conversations to be had from what occurred but in no way, shape or form was this a national scandal that "Grace" and Babe tried to make it.

Wow. We took totally different things away from her story.

Plus, wanting her to get tons of negative blowback for it? Is there something else going on here for you and women speaking out because that I s a really strong reaction.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Tiduwho

Why is it that MSU is not getting killed in the media?

Coach after coach after coach covered for this guy for over 20 years. Threatened students not to say anything. This is borderline Penn State level sickening corruption (no one can take their crown but). How in God's name is MSU not getting roasted in the media????

Completely agree.

[swordo84]

Originally Posted by Tiduwho

Why is it that MSU is not getting killed in the media?

Coach after coach after coach covered for this guy for over 20 years. Threatened students not to say anything. This is borderline Penn State level sickening corruption (no one can take their crown but). How in God's name is MSU not getting roasted in the media????

Not to mention the entirety of the leadership at Gymnastics USA. They should all have their feet held to the fire. The whole story is beyond disgusting.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Wow. We took totally different things away from her story.

Plus, wanting her to get tons of negative blowback for it? Is there something else going on here for you and women speaking out because that I s a really strong reaction.

What did you take from her story?

[neumdogg]

Originally Posted by swordo84

Not to mention the entirety of the leadership at Gymnastics USA. They should all have their feet held to the fire. The whole story is beyond disgusting.

THIS one is the one that really bothers me. Honestly, I feel like the Olympics should ban the US from competing for a few Olympics because of this.

[smokew11]

I was wondering the same thing about the Nassar situation

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Wow. We took totally different things away from her story.

Plus, wanting her to get tons of negative blowback for it? Is there something else going on here for you and women speaking out because that I s a really strong reaction.

My problem with it is how ridiculous it was. It was a shitty date with a pigish guy. That's all. I think Babe and the girl should get slammed for it because it minimizes the stories of people who were actually victims of abuse and harassment

[rustysurf83]

Originally Posted by swordo84

Not to mention the entirety of the leadership at Gymnastics USA. They should all have their feet held to the fire. The whole story is beyond disgusting.

If the NCAA actually cared about student athlete’s, they would give entire Athletic Departments the death penalty for this shit. The Olympics absolutely should ban US Gymnastics from competing; allow the athletes to compete under a neutral banner a la the Russian situation. Better yet, ban the US as a whole; I’m much more concerned about systemic sexual abuse than performance enhancing drugs.