Everyday 20th Anniversary thread

[adamreichle22]

Originally Posted by Cscottrun

Carson, any idea why there was such a lack of promotion for CT? Do you expect that to change on the next album?

See I've seen this noted multiple times but I remember the same if not less promotion for AFTW. So at this point it's trend and a new release from the band hasn't had a big push behind it in 12 years. So I wouldn't expect that to change for a new album from a band of DMB's cultural relevancy in 2021.

[Carson31]

Originally Posted by Cscottrun

Carson, any idea why there was such a lack of promotion for CT? Do you expect that to change on the next album?

I think it's likely a combination of things. I think promotional departments & budgets are smaller across the board. The 90's seemed to be the peak for promotion as far as I can tell. These days it's lots more digital stuff, way less CDs/posters/press kits/mailers etc etc. So evolution of the industry for sure is one reason. Another reason might be that RCA didn't feel strongly about CT, which is also why some people think the 2nd Cavallo album wasn't released as planned. Maybe they felt it wasn't worth the money to bother promoting, or that the whole process was already too costly?

As far as I know CT had only 1 promotional CD and it was the Producers Roundtable. There were also some 12" panels of the artwork, but that's it as far as I know. I've yet to see any CD singles, licensing samplers or any other type of promos in the US or anywhere else. It's the only album I can say that about. For comparison, even AFTW had CD singles released in the US & UK/EU, an exclusive UK 2CD version for record store day, a South African tour edition, expanded super deluxe editions... none of that for CT. Though they did print 4 variants of the vinyl, which counts for something. And I think there was some kind of deal with Target too.

Usually DMB gets major label distribution overseas and for CT it was ATO. Not Sony or Warner or any of the big ones, it was ATO. Which might lead you to wonder if they couldn't find another international distributor?

I doubt the next album will see much promotion if there isn't a big name producer attached. And I'm not really sure where RCA stands with DMB in general.

[ElijahSoRight72]

Originally Posted by Carson31

I think it's likely a combination of things. I think promotional departments & budgets are smaller across the board. The 90's seemed to be the peak for promotion as far as I can tell. These days it's lots more digital stuff, way less CDs/posters/press kits/mailers etc etc. So evolution of the industry for sure is one reason. Another reason might be that RCA didn't feel strongly about CT, which is also why some people think the 2nd Cavallo album wasn't released as planned. Maybe they felt it wasn't worth the money to bother promoting, or that the whole process was already too costly?

As far as I know CT had only 1 promotional CD and it was the Producers Roundtable. There were also some 12" panels of the artwork, but that's it as far as I know. I've yet to see any CD singles, licensing samplers or any other type of promos in the US or anywhere else. It's the only album I can say that about. For comparison, even AFTW had CD singles released in the US & UK/EU, an exclusive UK 2CD version for record store day, a South African tour edition, expanded super deluxe editions... none of that for CT. Though they did print 4 variants of the vinyl, which counts for something. And I think there was some kind of deal with Target too.

Usually DMB gets major label distribution overseas and for CT it was ATO. Not Sony or Warner or any of the big ones, it was ATO. Which might lead you to wonder if they couldn't find another international distributor?

I doubt the next album will see much promotion if there isn't a big name producer attached. And I'm not really sure where RCA stands with DMB in general.

It's interesting to me that RCA may not have liked the 2nd Cavallo album, because from the songs I'd assume would have been on it (and based on the horn arrangements for unknown songs), it would have been WAY better than CT.

As far as the next album, I'd guess we won't see ED or BW levels of promotion, but a special edition with BTS footage and some bonus tracks would be greatly appreciated. CT really felt rushed as far as the bonuses were concerned, and I hope that's different for the new album. That BW box set was amazing.

Thanks again for your insight. Always look forward to your posts and stories.

[grilldanmo]

I would guess another aspect is cost. Record don't promote artists for free...it's all part of their cut and/or used to take a bigger cut. Most labels are 360-dealing as many artists as they can, but I highly doubt DMB have or would agree to such a deal.

If they want big promotional efforts it's likely that whatever label is doing the promoting would either want the band to front some amount of those costs OR take a bigger cut. Pretty sure RLM & DMB would rather pass on that. Being a bit more independent, however, likely lessens opportunities to get on soundtracks and do other cross promotional dealings. Ideally this level of independence would have them putting out more material, instead it seems like a trickle...BS to SU 3 yrs, SU to BW 4 yrs, BW to AFtW 3 yrs, AFtW to CT 6 years, CT to any new album this year will be another 3 yrs.

I'd gladly take something every 3 yrs or EPs or releasing songs random spngs ever few months. That's right, spngs...oy...

[candyman#41]

Originally Posted by Carson31

I think it's likely a combination of things. I think promotional departments & budgets are smaller across the board. The 90's seemed to be the peak for promotion as far as I can tell. These days it's lots more digital stuff, way less CDs/posters/press kits/mailers etc etc. So evolution of the industry for sure is one reason. Another reason might be that RCA didn't feel strongly about CT, which is also why some people think the 2nd Cavallo album wasn't released as planned. Maybe they felt it wasn't worth the money to bother promoting, or that the whole process was already too costly?

As far as I know CT had only 1 promotional CD and it was the Producers Roundtable. There were also some 12" panels of the artwork, but that's it as far as I know. I've yet to see any CD singles, licensing samplers or any other type of promos in the US or anywhere else. It's the only album I can say that about. For comparison, even AFTW had CD singles released in the US & UK/EU, an exclusive UK 2CD version for record store day, a South African tour edition, expanded super deluxe editions... none of that for CT. Though they did print 4 variants of the vinyl, which counts for something. And I think there was some kind of deal with Target too.

Usually DMB gets major label distribution overseas and for CT it was ATO. Not Sony or Warner or any of the big ones, it was ATO. Which might lead you to wonder if they couldn't find another international distributor?

I doubt the next album will see much promotion if there isn't a big name producer attached. And I'm not really sure where RCA stands with DMB in general.

Carson -- Thank you for all the great information that you have shared. Perhaps you have covered this in a different thread, so I apologize if I am asking you to answer this question again - but to the extent that you feel comfortable doing so, could you share (generally) what your connection is to the band? Have you worked directly or indirectly with the band or do you just know people who are in the band or work with them? Thanks again!

[two-by-twostep]

all the talk of Joyful Girl sent me to YT because I never heard it. that led me to a copperpot video of this 21 minute version of 41 with Soulive from 5.15.01. excellent version. first 16 minutes are great, though the last 5 or so drag. still, had never heard it before. all the issues with ED aside, i LOVE the sound of the band from this era:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aviLPg51alM

[Carson31]

Originally Posted by ElijahSoRight72

It's interesting to me that RCA may not have liked the 2nd Cavallo album, because from the songs I'd assume would have been on it (and based on the horn arrangements for unknown songs), it would have been WAY better than CT.

As far as the next album, I'd guess we won't see ED or BW levels of promotion, but a special edition with BTS footage and some bonus tracks would be greatly appreciated. CT really felt rushed as far as the bonuses were concerned, and I hope that's different for the new album. That BW box set was amazing.

Thanks again for your insight. Always look forward to your posts and stories.

Originally Posted by candyman#41

Carson -- Thank you for all the great information that you have shared. Perhaps you have covered this in a different thread, so I apologize if I am asking you to answer this question again - but to the extent that you feel comfortable doing so, could you share (generally) what your connection is to the band? Have you worked directly or indirectly with the band or do you just know people who are in the band or work with them? Thanks again!

My pleasure. I'll do another really big post here and then I'll probably step aside for a bit. Almost none of this will relate to Everyday but that's OK since we're already off the rails:

One of the consequences of sharing info about DMB is that there is a small crowd that will hate you for what you say, and others that hate you for what you don't say. As far as I'm concerned, I'm usually just trying to hype up the fanbase, or offer factual background info on this or that. I'm mostly just a fan like everyone else. I've been going to see DMB since I was 11 so my fandom stems largely from childhood attachment but I'm one of the people that's more into studio DMB than live. Nearly 200 shows later, it's fair to say I like the live experience too but it's the studio stuff that I really get into. Over the years I've made an effort to introduce myself to various music industry personnel. Generally they are happy to answer all my stupid questions. Mastering engineers, managers and producers don't really get the attention that star musicians do, so I think they like the star treatment I give them.

As far as work goes, I've been peripherally involved with a few DMB things but I've never received a paycheck from Red Light, and I probably never will unless they want to reproduce this scene from Big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRlmkXsoGx0" They don't want to buy the cow even though they need the milk. I'm sure just posting that will insult the shit out of a few of them but they'll get over it. Regardless, I'd love to be the Favreau/Filoni of DMB/RLM. I'd love to right the ship for the fans. I know they'll (RLM) take that as insulting but it's really just business. It's time for them to move on from the rich kids with expensive degrees and hire the people that skipped class to go to the concert.

I disagree with how the band is managed in many ways but I do think highly of Mr. Capshaw, and I admire Bruce Flohr, even if I'd have fired him hahaha. I always leave the door open to them, and usually every March I make sure that they know that regardless of the past, I'm still willing to help. Lots of big ego in the industry so I'm told I'll fit right in.

My fun experiences with DMB stem largely from being a collector. I'm a little bit like the Indiana Jones of DMB History. Most of my research is done in a library. I sought the Holy Grail, entered the Temple of Doom and I firmly believe that DMB History belongs in a museum.

Story time: I once peppered Tim with questions for over an hour some 10 years ago after a show in Tahoe. He was very gracious about everything I asked, and he seemed surprised someone wanted to know about all the crap I was asking him about. My questions were largely in regards to his album Light Up Ahead. He told me all about the recording process, the cover art, so many little details that I can't even remember everything. So anyway I basically told him how great he was and that I appreciated him taking the time to talk with me blah blah. We said our goodbyes and he left to go do Tim Reynolds stuff. Afterwards I was sitting by myself still processing everything, kind of stunned from the whole thing. It had only been a few minutes when he came back and found me. He wanted to talk some more, but this time about other music, including the band performing inside (JJ Grey). He was into them and then proceeded to tell me about some other bands he was into, DeVotchka & The Flaming Lips. I listened to him talk about playing arenas & stadiums, and the differences and pressures of playing a small club. We shared a plate of french toast, which we both loved and found that we both have a sweet tooth after concerts. He also introduced me to his crew and bandmates. Fluffy, Rob, Mick & Dan are all great people, very genuine people. I can't speak highly enough about all of them.

A few years later the Light Up Ahead thing would come full circle when I found the original master tape for that same album. It was for sale in a thrift store in Virginia. Someone had donated it along with a ton of other tapes from various artists. Of course I bought it and then immediately decided to reach out to the band to see if Tim wanted it. A few months later I hand delivered the tape to Tim before a show in Vegas. It had been lost for many years so it was kind of a big deal. I could tell I really made his day, which was genuinely a life affirming type of moment. If anyone ever gets the chance to make the day of one of your heroes, I highly recommend it.

Moving on and back to other comments : As far as the 2nd Cavallo album, it was one person's opinion that it was terrible. The quote I remember was "they didn't release it because it's fucking terrible." That came from one of the few people who I know definitively heard the album. I've heard next to none of it so I can't say I agree or disagree. There were other people in/around the DMB camp singing a different tune. One of them said specifically that "DMB want's it to be their best album." There seemed to be real optimism that they were making a great album but the proof is in the pudding. Only a handful of the Cavallo tracks were released, and the rest are now 5-6-7 years old. All the professional horn arrangements & personnel, the studio(s)... that stuff isn't cheap. So if they really did walk away from the rest of it, someone still had to pay that bill.

Alternate theories are that the best songs from the 2nd Cavallo album were saved for later use. The handful of Cavallo tracks on CT perhaps just didn't fit with anything else on the other album. Or, it could be that CT was actually a 'best of' unreleased stuff. I think it would be tough to get a straight answer on that even if you found the right person to ask.

I have next to no clue what will be on the new album, or who all is involved in producing, mixing & writing. I mentioned the possibility of Batson getting a writing credit, but what I was really trying to say was that I know so little about what may or may not be on there, that it could be possible that some Batson track(s) ends up on the album. I made a similar comment some years ago about Bismarck not being on CT. Others who may have heard the track certainly disagree, which is understandable. But again, what I was really trying to say is that I simply didn't know if it was ever close to being included. According to a source, the only real surprise on CT was Death on the High Seas being excluded and When I'm Weary being included. They said Bismarck was never going to be on that album. But maybe they were wrong and others are right? Additionally, some people thought that Ask & Red Glare might be on the album because of a post I made. As far as I know, neither of those tracks was ever close to being included, as b-sides or anything else. I never expected fans would get to hear those songs so soon after I mentioned them. The leak was a surprise to me and something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

I think that's definitely enough for now. I understand there are going to be questions and I may not answer them if I think it's for the best.

PS, I'm not Carson Mac, but I do enjoy his educational youtube videos.

[firedancer34]

two different time periods so it's not apples to apples, but its hilarious to think something like stand up gets released but then the 2nd cavallo sessions would be deemed too awful for release. the stuff from those sessions that made CT are the best of the bunch and it's not even close imo.

[wmg21]

Originally Posted by Carson31

I also forgot that RCA intentionally released I Did It to Napster, a couple months before the album came out.

Forgot all about this! Thanks for all the info Carson! This thread has been a great walk down memory lane.

[groogrux27]

Originally Posted by Carson31

My pleasure. I'll do another really big post here and then I'll probably step aside for a bit. Almost none of this will relate to Everyday but that's OK since we're already off the rails:

One of the consequences of sharing info about DMB is that there is a small crowd that will hate you for what you say, and others that hate you for what you don't say. As far as I'm concerned, I'm usually just trying to hype up the fanbase, or offer factual background info on this or that. I'm mostly just a fan like everyone else. I've been going to see DMB since I was 11 so my fandom stems largely from childhood attachment but I'm one of the people that's more into studio DMB than live. Nearly 200 shows later, it's fair to say I like the live experience too but it's the studio stuff that I really get into. Over the years I've made an effort to introduce myself to various music industry personnel. Generally they are happy to answer all my stupid questions. Mastering engineers, managers and producers don't really get the attention that star musicians do, so I think they like the star treatment I give them.

As far as work goes, I've been peripherally involved with a few DMB things but I've never received a paycheck from Red Light, and I probably never will unless they want to reproduce this scene from Big: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRlmkXsoGx0" They don't want to buy the cow even though they need the milk. I'm sure just posting that will insult the shit out of a few of them but they'll get over it. Regardless, I'd love to be the Favreau/Filoni of DMB/RLM. I'd love to right the ship for the fans. I know they'll (RLM) take that as insulting but it's really just business. It's time for them to move on from the rich kids with expensive degrees and hire the people that skipped class to go to the concert.

I disagree with how the band is managed in many ways but I do think highly of Mr. Capshaw, and I admire Bruce Flohr, even if I'd have fired him hahaha. I always leave the door open to them, and usually every March I make sure that they know that regardless of the past, I'm still willing to help. Lots of big ego in the industry so I'm told I'll fit right in.

My fun experiences with DMB stem largely from being a collector. I'm a little bit like the Indiana Jones of DMB History. Most of my research is done in a library. I sought the Holy Grail, entered the Temple of Doom and I firmly believe that DMB History belongs in a museum.

Story time: I once peppered Tim with questions for over an hour some 10 years ago after a show in Tahoe. He was very gracious about everything I asked, and he seemed surprised someone wanted to know about all the crap I was asking him about. My questions were largely in regards to his album Light Up Ahead. He told me all about the recording process, the cover art, so many little details that I can't even remember everything. So anyway I basically told him how great he was and that I appreciated him taking the time to talk with me blah blah. We said our goodbyes and he left to go do Tim Reynolds stuff. Afterwards I was sitting by myself still processing everything, kind of stunned from the whole thing. It had only been a few minutes when he came back and found me. He wanted to talk some more, but this time about other music, including the band performing inside (JJ Grey). He was into them and then proceeded to tell me about some other bands he was into, DeVotchka & The Flaming Lips. I listened to him talk about playing arenas & stadiums, and the differences and pressures of playing a small club. We shared a plate of french toast, which we both loved and found that we both have a sweet tooth after concerts. He also introduced me to his crew and bandmates. Fluffy, Rob, Mick & Dan are all great people, very genuine people. I can't speak highly enough about all of them.

A few years later the Light Up Ahead thing would come full circle when I found the original master tape for that same album. It was for sale in a thrift store in Virginia. Someone had donated it along with a ton of other tapes from various artists. Of course I bought it and then immediately decided to reach out to the band to see if Tim wanted it. A few months later I hand delivered the tape to Tim before a show in Vegas. It had been lost for many years so it was kind of a big deal. I could tell I really made his day, which was genuinely a life affirming type of moment. If anyone ever gets the chance to make the day of one of your heroes, I highly recommend it.

Moving on and back to other comments : As far as the 2nd Cavallo album, it was one person's opinion that it was terrible. The quote I remember was "they didn't release it because it's fucking terrible." That came from one of the few people who I know definitively heard the album. I've heard next to none of it so I can't say I agree or disagree. There were other people in/around the DMB camp singing a different tune. One of them said specifically that "DMB want's it to be their best album." There seemed to be real optimism that they were making a great album but the proof is in the pudding. Only a handful of the Cavallo tracks were released, and the rest are now 5-6-7 years old. All the professional horn arrangements & personnel, the studio(s)... that stuff isn't cheap. So if they really did walk away from the rest of it, someone still had to pay that bill.

Alternate theories are that the best songs from the 2nd Cavallo album were saved for later use. The handful of Cavallo tracks on CT perhaps just didn't fit with anything else on the other album. Or, it could be that CT was actually a 'best of' unreleased stuff. I think it would be tough to get a straight answer on that even if you found the right person to ask.

I have next to no clue what will be on the new album, or who all is involved in producing, mixing & writing. I mentioned the possibility of Batson getting a writing credit, but what I was really trying to say was that I know so little about what may or may not be on there, that it could be possible that some Batson track(s) ends up on the album. I made a similar comment some years ago about Bismarck not being on CT. Others who may have heard the track certainly disagree, which is understandable. But again, what I was really trying to say is that I simply didn't know if it was ever close to being included. According to a source, the only real surprise on CT was Death on the High Seas being excluded and When I'm Weary being included. They said Bismarck was never going to be on that album. But maybe they were wrong and others are right? Additionally, some people thought that Ask & Red Glare might be on the album because of a post I made. As far as I know, neither of those tracks was ever close to being included, as b-sides or anything else. I never expected fans would get to hear those songs so soon after I mentioned them. The leak was a surprise to me and something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

I think that's definitely enough for now. I understand there are going to be questions and I may not answer them if I think it's for the best.

PS, I'm not Carson Mac, but I do enjoy his educational youtube videos.

i could read carson info bombs literally all day

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by Carson31

A few years later the Light Up Ahead thing would come full circle when I found the original master tape for that same album. It was for sale in a thrift store in Virginia. Someone had donated it along with a ton of other tapes from various artists. Of course I bought it and then immediately decided to reach out to the band to see if Tim wanted it. A few months later I hand delivered the tape to Tim before a show in Vegas. It had been lost for many years so it was kind of a big deal. I could tell I really made his day, which was genuinely a life affirming type of moment.

This was my favorite part of your info drop. That sounds like an incredible moment and I can only imagine how much he appreciated that.

Matt Groening has a story about how when George Harrison came to record his part on The Simpsons that everyone was asking Beatles questions and Monty Python questions and when Groening steered the questions toward Living in a Material World (I think, it's been a long time) that you could visibly see George's posture change and he got more excited

I have to imagine talking to someone like Tim is like that. "Oh? You wanna talk about my stuff? Not the DMB thing? Cool!"