Busted Stuff may be DMB’s best album

[Captainnumber36]

Originally Posted by #41Tom

YOINK as in YNK? If you're on about YNK, I couldn't disagree with you more. It's one of the best recordings the band's done in its entire history.



The songs on BTCS are a masterclass, but has the band ever sounded as sophisticated as that? They are incredible recordings, but has that ever translated to their live sound in the way BS has? I took OP's perspective as BS being the most 'true DMB' sound - and I think he's bang on.

The fans on the message board called YNK YOINK on it's debut. I was seeing if anyone around here would get it.

I really dislike the studio version of the song, it sounds lifelesss.

[Dankguitar]

Originally Posted by lockman21

They're two of the best studio recordings the band has ever done.

I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing it doesn’t sound like DMB as I want them to sound which is why I go to the live versions first

[chadizzy1]

Originally Posted by RSSR

TLWS could have toppled BTCS as this band’s best work. As is, the Busted Stuff album we ultimately got doesn’t.

tLWS is right below BTCS for me. It would be like 51% BTCS, 49% tLWS.

[misschung]

Originally Posted by chadizzy1

tLWS is right below BTCS for me. It would be like 51% BTCS, 49% tLWS.

I agree with this completely. BTCS -- LWS would have been an absolutely epic progression. I rarely listen to Busted Stuff because I prefer the earlier versions of the songs

[Darth Id]

WAYG - Mediocre throwaway
YNK - Busy, busy, busy...forgotten
Politicized Raven: Unlistenable.
Captain [Porn-Anthem R3M1X]: An Atrocity
JTR... MIA
Bartender: Dry & Bland
Busted Stuff: Ditto
Grey Street - on a pass/No pass scale: Pass.
Kit Kat Jam - Boring, worse without singing
Big Eyed Fish - Second-Biggest Decline in Value (after Captain): De-Creepified and Homogenized to the point of dispensability
Diggin' a Ditch - Just less-well recorded, flat and dry in production
Grace Is Gone - Again, just less beautiful sounding, just sort of engineered without dynamics or the lovely flourishes that Lillywhite had.

There is absolutely no advantage in listening to this over Lillywhite.

[RSSR]

I don’t know, the additional adlibbed outro to BS’s BEF is beautiful AND inspired. Some days it changes if I prefer tLWS’s instrumental outro or Dave’s vocal additions.

[jaymas9]

As a collection of songs (sans Where are you going)...sure, I can get behind that as a point of view.

Taking all other things that make an album into account, I cannot agree.

[jaymas9]

Originally Posted by RSSR

I don’t know, the additional adlibbed outro to BS’s BEF is beautiful AND inspired. Some days it changes if I prefer tLWS’s instrumental outro or Dave’s vocal additions.

I think the biggest and most glaringly worse part of tLWS Big Eyed Fish versus BS is just all the sax they stripped out of the BS version. Roi was all over that song on tLWS whether it was fills or his crescendo perfectly syncing up with Dave's voice. Such a wow track on tLWS. Can't even imagine what it would have been like in a finished state.

[thirtyroifour]

Originally Posted by Dankguitar

You know, I was just randomly listening to the album Busted Stuff and I had this first time realization that this may be my favorite DMB album. And I never came close to thinking it was better than the Big 3 previously. I think I’ve been programmed by reading these boards to not like this album. First, the actual songs themselves are several of my favorite songs Dave’s ever written. Interestingly, it seems that the production is what brings this album down for most fans. But I realize now that this is what DMB is meant to sound like. While I find Lillywhite’s production to be amazing, I rarely go to his versions of DMB’s songs because they don’t sound like DMB. Listen to The Stone or The Dreaming Tree or even Two Step. They don’t even sound like the band. Dave’s voice often doesn’t even sound like his natural live voice. Busted Stuff captures what a polished studio version of their live act that made DMB my favorite band. And thats why it’s my favorite official released album.

Well, welcome to the small club of folks who agree with you. Me being one. This has been my favorite album since the day it came out. And to preface, no matter what album I am listening to, if I start judgin albums by things like production value, well.. just stop me. That’s borderline music snob territory.. as if I knew anything about “production.” Not saying folks on the board dont, just that I don’t. So for me to try to jusge production would be out of bounds.

I have always judged albums, all albums, by song selection only. Thats it. Half of BStuff is in my top 10 - gray street, bartender, big eye fish, grace is gone, busted stuff.

Busted Stuff has always been a perfect happy media between crush and btcs. It has the darkness of btcs but also the great joy and hope of crush. I still listen regularly

[#41Tom]

Originally Posted by thirtyroifour

Well, welcome to the small club of folks who agree with you. Me being one. This has been my favorite album since the day it came out. And to preface, no matter what album I am listening to, if I start judgin albums by things like production value, well.. just stop me. That’s borderline music snob territory.. as if I knew anything about “production.” Not saying folks on the board dont, just that I don’t. So for me to try to jusge production would be out of bounds.

I have always judged albums, all albums, by song selection only. Thats it. Half of BStuff is in my top 10 - gray street, bartender, big eye fish, grace is gone, busted stuff.

Busted Stuff has always been a perfect happy media between crush and btcs. It has the darkness of btcs but also the great joy and hope of crush. I still listen regularly

before you get jumped on, i'm gonna help you out - crush is on btcs. did you mean to differentiate between that song and the rest of the album?

and it's also grEy street, and big eyeD fish

[kingofkings]

Originally Posted by #41Tom

before you get jumped on, i'm gonna help you out - crush is on btcs. did you mean to differentiate between that song and the rest of the album?

and it's also grEy street, and big eyeD fish

i think he meant crash lol

[tyler3440]

The LWS versions of all of these songs are better. But I'm still glad this album came out just for YNK. YNK is fucking amazing

With that said... this album is still better then everyday, stand up, BW and AFTW

[ExistenceNow]

Originally Posted by chadizzy1

tLWS is right below BTCS for me. It would be like 51% BTCS, 49% tLWS.

That's about where I'm at too.

[Dodo36]

The BS arrangement of Raven completely killed the song for me. I loved the acoustic-based LWS arrangement. Of course the lyrics were still a work in progress, but it got bastardized only slightly less than Joy Ride.

For me, and many others, BS was a consolation prize. Some of the songs are more focused. The title track benefits from the bass-centric outro, but KKJ feels shoe-horned in as an instrumental.

And studio versions should not be identical to live versions. It might be cool to hear the tunes live like that once, but then you might as well just play the sungs over a good sound system.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by Dodo36

KKJ feels shoe-horned in as an instrumental.

KKJ is better as an instrumental.

[Nick3641]

I don't care if it wasn't officially released, LWS exists. Therefore, it counts. The remastered versions out there, although unfinished, are a great listen. Those songs bring you to the same places BTCS did. I like the band's newer take on themselves, but there is a certain feeling from those two albums that they've been unable to get to again. There is a dark side that they're unable, or unwilling to get to with their newer material.

I realize I've stated nothing new here.....

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by Nick3641

I don't care if it wasn't officially released, LWS exists. Therefore, it counts. The remastered versions out there, although unfinished, are a great listen. Those songs bring you to the same places BTCS did. I like the band's newer take on themselves, but there is a certain feeling from those two albums that they've been unable to get to again. There is a dark side that they're unable, or unwilling to get to with their newer material.

I realize I've stated nothing new here.....

The early version of BW&GGK exists as well. So, we're counting that too.

[WidespreadMule3]

It is my favorite collection of songs. I love all the songs individually.

Collectively as an album and entity, no, it's not their best. Cohesively it doesn't gel like the Big 3.

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Nick3641

I don't care if it wasn't officially released, LWS exists. Therefore, it counts. The remastered versions out there, although unfinished, are a great listen. Those songs bring you to the same places BTCS did. I like the band's newer take on themselves, but there is a certain feeling from those two albums that they've been unable to get to again. There is a dark side that they're unable, or unwilling to get to with their newer material.

I realize I've stated nothing new here.....

This is exactly why they moved away from that sound. Don't get me wrong, I think it's some of the best written and recorded material of all time, and 97-00 is such a great period for this band. But, Dave was in a dark place during that period and moved away from that, which is why the finished product (Busted Stuff) is more polished, lyrical changes, what have you. It was always going to be called Busted Stuff.

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

BS Captain is the worst thing this band has ever done. And we're talking about a band that wrote and performed Be Yourself.

Oh, I do believe that title is held by the studio version of Hunger for the Great Light...Captain was a masterpiece on Lillywhite Sessions, so I see the distaste for how it ended up on Busted Stuff, but nothing compares to the atrocity that is Hunger...that is by far one of the worst studio recordings I've ever heard. I honestly can't believe they listened to that and thought it was acceptable to release.

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

I guess I see what y'all are saying, but I'm not sure I agree that it's some sort of production achievement. "You did so little, that it's easily replicable live." Um... okay. That's not really what I'm looking for in a studio album, personally. The true brilliance of BTCS as an album is all that depth, layering, and what not in the production that goes beyond just the collection of songs.

While I agree Busted Stuff is a great album, one of the funnest parts about getting a studio album is that it DOESN'T sound like live DMB. As that's what Live DMB is for. It was always great back in the day to get an album, hear them explore the songs in the studio and then wonder how they would play them live. There was an excitement behind that. I remember being excited after Everyday to see how the slick shortened studio recordings would sound live. I was disappointed in 01, but they finally fleshed them out in 02 and brought them into their own.

[tyler3440]

Since we're on the LWS subject I came across this thread today. Thought it was a good read https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/s...d.php?t=333789

[Dodo36]

Originally Posted by Hilly

KKJ is better as an instrumental.

Live, I agree.

Studio the verses feel like something is missing. The space where the vocals used to live was not filled in by anything concrete. Roi's sax still feels like it was mixed to be under vocals.

[KevinTH]

Having said what I just said, it is still cool to have an album that stands solely on the songs it presents. There are no frills or deep layers to Busted Stuff. The album is so good because the songs themselves are so good. I'm sure most would have preferred they finish the Lillywhite Sessions, and view Busted Stuff as a lazy answer to fans' cries. But then it's also interesting to see a band take different approaches to things. That's why I've stuck with this band so long. Not every attempt lands on it's feet, but it makes things interesting, and makes DMB feel more like 10 bands in 1.

There's a level of depth and creativity that any band can explore when they're in the studio. It can make a band better, and contribute to the growth of each individual musician, because you have to learn to approach the music in a completely different way. This is probably why a lot of fans prefer DMB of the Big 3 era. They seemed to put more into their studio efforts, and because of this they were pushing themselves musically, which pushed them into having to figure out how to stay a great live band. In my opinion, Before These Crowded Streets is such a great achievement, not only because the album itself is phenomenal, but because they managed to write a new batch of songs without road testing them (which they had never really done before), record them beautifully and masterfully, and then they found a way to make them great in the live setting. Whereas Big Whiskey is a great album and, I think, very well produced, but those songs never really translated well live. There are simply things that won't come across in a live setting, or have the same impact as when you hear it in the studio. What drew so many people into the band in the first place was their live sound. So it makes things that much more interesting when you hear Two Step, or Dreaming Tree in it's studio form and wonder, how are they going to play that live and still make it sound good? And then they do. I find that very fulfilling as a fan. If I wanted to hear Two Step as it's played live I'd pull up a version of it from a show.

[excitingjae]

Originally Posted by tyler3440

Since we're on the LWS subject I came across this thread today. Thought it was a good read https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/s...d.php?t=333789

I remember making a disc for a girl in high school that were live versions of the new songs from the summer of 2000. then like a week later the actual studio versions (tLWS) leaked and I gave that to her. She probably had no idea I handed her gold.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by #41Tom

The songs on BTCS are a masterclass, but has the band ever sounded as sophisticated as that? They are incredible recordings, but has that ever translated to their live sound in the way BS has? I took OP's perspective as BS being the most 'true DMB' sound - and I think he's bang on.

Originally Posted by Dankguitar

I’m not arguing that. I’m arguing it doesn’t sound like DMB as I want them to sound which is why I go to the live versions first

I don't get this thinking. It's so weird to me. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Did The Beatles sound like their records live? Did Pink Floyd?

If you want live, listen to live. I appreciate BTCS for what it is, and I think it's the best work the band has ever done. It doesn't, nor should it have to, sound like it does live because it's a studio recording. They're very different things.

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by excitingjae

I remember making a disc for a girl in high school that were live versions of the new songs from the summer of 2000. then like a week later the actual studio versions (tLWS) leaked and I gave that to her. She probably had no idea I handed her gold.

In 2000 I was still relatively new to discovering anything I could related to DMB. One door opened and I'd discover another gold mine of great tunes I had never heard. I was on vacation when they came to Columbus and I knew they were going to debut new tunes. Napster had just become a thing and a buddy of mine made me a CD with all the new things he could find (I had dial up and it was still faster to have them download all the songs, burn them to a CD, wait a day and drive 15 minutes to meet him to pick up the CD, and drive home another 15 minutes to pop it in the CD player ). It was Grey Street, JTR, Sweet Up and Down, Grace is Gone, Bartender, Raven, Digging a Ditch and The Maker...I thought The Maker was a new DMB song for about a year or more.

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I don't get this thinking. It's so weird to me. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Did The Beatles sound like their records live? Did Pink Floyd?

If you want live, listen to live. I appreciate BTCS for what it is, and I think it's the best work the band has ever done. It doesn't, nor should it have to, sound like it does live because it's a studio recording. They're very different things.

Agreed. That's why the band releases live albums and allow fans to tape their shows.

[Captainnumber36]

I listened to it today and really enjoyed it! Good call OP. Actually, WAYG is a really good song. I love when Roi comes in with his solo.

[cry_minarets458]

props to OP for his dank username dankguitar. i feel like that was way ahead of its time

[Captainnumber36]

I kind of enjoy the faster paced Captain these days. It's groovy! Both versions are cool. One is for sexy time, the other is for dark stormy days.