The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB - Page 238 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 03-10-2019, 07:19 AM   #7111
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Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

I was just talking about that interview last night. I think it was 02/03 timeframe. That interview was one of the most disturbing, and upsetting things I had ever watched. I couldn’t believe this guy that was once my hero was sitting up in a tree claiming to be Peter Pan, and meaning it. I think the reason MJ gets so much defense is that his life has been an open book since he was a child and everyone knows it. In turn people look the other way because they know his shitty upbringing and resulting mental illness is what made him into what he became. Not a defense, but his story is certainly a sad one.
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  • Old 03-10-2019, 07:21 AM   #7112
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    And on the topic of grooming, I think Michael Jackson is a great example of actual grooming - telling boys “Oh, this is something all adults do” and stuff like that. Basically raising them to be sexual deviants.

    With Boyd, i can’t help but feel like Boyd was just weird/socially awkward and thought the feelings were mutual between himself and another adult. I’m bisexual and used to think everyone else had to be bisexual too and was just hiding it. Feel like Boyd experienced something similar.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 07:28 AM   #7113
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinTH View Post
    I was just talking about that interview last night. I think it was 02/03 timeframe. That interview was one of the most disturbing, and upsetting things I had ever watched. I couldn’t believe this guy that was once my hero was sitting up in a tree claiming to be Peter Pan, and meaning it. I think the reason MJ gets so much defense is that his life has been an open book since he was a child and everyone knows it. In turn people look the other way because they know his shitty upbringing and resulting mental illness is what made him into what he became. Not a defense, but his story is certainly a sad one.
    Agree! He was a scarred soul, no doubt, and that makes this all the more tragic and sad for all involved. The most tragic thing is that very little seemed to change after that interview. But if it prevented more parents from letting their kids be over there, then perhaps that's the intangible benefit. How do you help someone like MJ who clearly doesn't want help? A lot of enablers around him.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 07:33 AM   #7114
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rhizingbines View Post
    And on the topic of grooming, I think Michael Jackson is a great example of actual grooming - telling boys “Oh, this is something all adults do” and stuff like that. Basically raising them to be sexual deviants.

    With Boyd, i can’t help but feel like Boyd was just weird/socially awkward and thought the feelings were mutual between himself and another adult. I’m bisexual and used to think everyone else had to be bisexual too and was just hiding it. Feel like Boyd experienced something similar.
    Yeah, that sound right to me about Boyd. He violated trust, workplace rules, etc. What he did sounds a little perverted, but not outright deviant. Some might argue with my choice of words there, I'm not sure they're the best, but I hope the difference between the two situations is clear. I don't think those situations really compare at all, other than you're talking about celebrities and bad sexual behavior.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 08:46 AM   #7115
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't sympathize or empathize with what Michael had to deal with in life. We'll really never know if his mental illness was a brain chemistry issue that would have presented itself no matter what or if it was the result of traumatic upbringing and the extremely public nature of his life. It's likely a combination wherein the trauma only added to problems that may have come to light.

    This reminds me of the Cosby situation. I can't and won't listen to or watch any of his work. Generally I'm okay separating an artist from their art, but Cosby is a bridge to far. Michael Jackson is now a bridge too far as well. I haven't listened to him in years and it seems that it should stay that way moving forward. I don't think Boyd is in this same category of sexual criminal/predator...at least not yet. The evidence isn't there yet, but I dread the day that it might be presented and confirmed. A scarier thought is if it is revealed that the band knew and did nothing.

    Last edited by grilldanmo; 03-10-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 09:00 AM   #7116
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't sympathize or empathize with what Michael had to deal with in life. We'll really never know if his mental illness was a brain chemistry issue that would have presented itself no matter what or if it was the result of traumatic upbringing and the extremely public nature of his life. It's likely a combination wherein the trauma only added to problems that may have come to light.

    This reminds me of the Cosby situation. I can't and won't listen to or watch any of his work. Generally I'm okay separating an artist from their art, but Cosby is a bridge to far. Michael Jackson is now a bridge too far as well. I haven't listened to him in years and it seems that it should stay that way moving forward. I don't think Boyd is in this same category of sexual criminal/predator...at least not yet. The evidence isn't there yet, but I dread the day that it might be presented and confirmed. A scarier thought is if it is revealed that the band knew and did nothing.
    Agree. Between his personality being stuck at a certain age (as is usually the case with trauma victims) and his oversexualization, I’m of the mindset that MJ himself was molested as a child.

    Boyd’s situation doesn’t seem deviant to me. For one, his accuser is a grown adult, not a child.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 09:09 AM   #7117
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't sympathize or empathize with what Michael had to deal with in life. We'll really never know if his mental illness was a brain chemistry issue that would have presented itself no matter what or if it was the result of traumatic upbringing and the extremely public nature of his life. It's likely a combination wherein the trauma only added to problems that may have come to light.

    This reminds me of the Cosby situation. I can't and won't listen to or watch any of his work. Generally I'm okay separating an artist from their art, but Cosby is a bridge to far. Michael Jackson is now a bridge too far as well. I haven't listened to him in years and it seems that it should stay that way moving forward. I don't think Boyd is in this same category of sexual criminal/predator...at least not yet. The evidence isn't there yet, but I dread the day that it might be presented and confirmed. A scarier thought is if it is revealed that the band knew and did nothing.
    Quote:
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    Agree. Between his personality being stuck at a certain age (as is usually the case with trauma victims) and his oversexualization, I’m of the mindset that MJ himself was molested as a child.

    Boyd’s situation doesn’t seem deviant to me. For one, his accuser is a grown adult, not a child.
    Agree with you both here. It's tragic on all fronts. It's a shame that all of this wasn't averted.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 09:24 AM   #7118
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rhizingbines View Post
    Agree. Between his personality being stuck at a certain age (as is usually the case with trauma victims) and his oversexualization, I’m of the mindset that MJ himself was molested as a child.

    Boyd’s situation doesn’t seem deviant to me. For one, his accuser is a grown adult, not a child.
    And as illogical and horrible as it is and sounds, a staggering amount of those that are molested end up being molesters themselves. It's is a terrifying cycle.

    Right now, Boyd's situation doesn't seem to compare...it's very sketchy. That said, the Cosby accusations sounded extremely sketchy at first.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 02:04 PM   #7119
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    <div class="pre-quote">
    Quote de <strong>rhizingbines</strong>
    </div>

    <div class="post-quote">
    <div style="font-style:italic">Agree. Between his personality being stuck at a certain age (as is usually the case with trauma victims) and his oversexualization, I’m of the mindset that MJ himself was molested as a child.<br>
    <br>
    Boyd’s situation doesn’t seem deviant to me. For one, his accuser is a grown adult, not a child.</div>
    </div>And as illogical and horrible as it is and sounds, a staggering amount of those that are molested end up being molesters themselves. It's is a terrifying cycle.<br>
    <br>
    Right now, Boyd's situation doesn't seem to compare...it's very sketchy. That said, the Cosby accusations sounded extremely sketchy at first.
    I wonder if that's why management was so quick to dump Boyd because of the unknown. If this was something they were completely blindsided by, not that I think they were, but the fear of what else may have come out could have been factored in the decision to move on so quickly. I don't think comparing Boyd to Mj would be fair. Mj was a serial child abuser, Boyd's situation, unless addition information is revealed, just seems like some strange relationship between two adults, where both people were using each other and ended with a cash grab.
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    Old 03-10-2019, 03:04 PM   #7120
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Turns out you were right but probably not how you imagined!

    Quote:
    Could also have something to do with Crystal Garden. Who knows. Fuck it.
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    Old 03-13-2019, 07:06 AM   #7121
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    What's more, LeRoi is a singular and more talented/expressive musician. Any decent professional violinist or fiddle player could easily play Boyd's parts...far better than he ever did (meaning: remembering them, playing them correctly every night, playing them in tune, etc.). Obviously there are some wickedly sour grapes that they need time to move on from. Sadly the people its hurting most are those fans that do not like the sound without a fiddle...
    While there might be "sour grapes" from the band toward Boyd and back again, what has to be remembered here... This isn't a local, regional or even largely successful band. This is one of the biggest, most successful bands of this era. To have left Boyd in the mix opens this BRAND up to a huge amount of legal liability. It's way farther down the road of just sour grapes, not liking the way he was performing, etc... This potentially could have left a much larger "footprint" on the DMB brand if they turned a blind eye.
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    Old 03-13-2019, 07:06 PM   #7122
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Not sure Dave should comment on BT priorities with the band since he got side tracked, almost lost the whole band and did SD
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    Old 03-13-2019, 09:29 PM   #7123
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by willndmb View Post
    Not sure Dave should comment on BT priorities with the band since he got side tracked, almost lost the whole band and did SD
    Why shouldn’t he? The band plays his music. Is there any question that Boyd had checked out?
    And what does SD have to do with any of this?
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    Old 03-14-2019, 01:12 AM   #7124
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    In the end it matters on a whole what the band and the brand stands for. Dave and the rest had to ultimately do what was right for everyone involved. I don't think in any interview Dave would intentionally hang BT out to dry, BT has these legal troubles of his own making whether true, half true, or some kind of cashgrab or whatever as many have stated in this thread there are other reasons coupled with the main reason he had to let him go be it his focus, musicianship, or legal woes. Overall this is Dave and the bands lives that also needs to be taken into account their families and the band needed to be on the right side of this thing. Don't get me wrong I would believe Dave and the guys would still consider BT a friend and wish him well and that he gets the help he needs to move on with the rest of his life. But no one person should bring down what they've spent years in the road building to this point I think BT understands that more than we all know
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    Old 03-20-2019, 01:45 PM   #7125
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    https://prestigemjm.com/2019/caly-ze...8QiDL50R1tzznI

    "Przyjeżdżacie do Polski w ramach promocji płyty Come Tomorrow. Co było powodem, że praca nad nią zajęła wam aż sześć lat?
    Mówiąc bardzo ogólnie, zespół przechodził przez bardzo trudny czas. Zwłaszcza jeśli chodzi o kwestie związane z osobowościami, o kwestie personalne. Wiesz, nagrywaliśmy mnóstwo muzyki, ale trudno nam było poczuć z tym więź. I dopiero jak wszyscy podjęliśmy decyzję, że Boyd musi odejść z zespołu i zrobić to, co powinien zrobić, mogliśmy iść dalej. Wcześniej strasznie nam to ciążyło… Nawet sami sobie nie zdawaliśmy sprawy jak bardzo. On nas ściągał w dół. Gdy w końcu to się stało, poczuliśmy nową energię. Tim i ja stworzyliśmy mnóstwo dobrej muzyki. Teraz w zespole jest nowy muzyk, Buddy Strong. Nie mówię, że chciałbym zmieniać przeszłość, ale w tej chwili zespół jest w znakomitej formie, wszyscy są bardzo zaangażowani. Dzięki temu dużo komponuję i dlatego mam nadzieję, że przerwa przed następną płytą będzie dużo krótsza."

    "You come to Poland as part of the promotion of the Come Tomorrow album. What was the reason that it took you six years to work on it?
    Generally speaking, the band went through a very difficult time. Especially when it comes to issues related to personalities, about personal issues. You know, we recorded a lot of music, but it was difficult to feel the bond with it. And it was not until we all decided that Boyd had to leave the band and do what he should do, we could go on. Earlier, it was very weary ... We did not even realize how much. He pulled us down. When it finally happened, we felt new energy. Tim and I have created a lot of good music. Now in the band is a new musician, Buddy Strong. I am not saying that I would like to change the past, but at the moment the team is in great shape, everyone is very involved. Thanks to this, I compose a lot and that is why I hope that the break before the next album will be much shorter."
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    Old 03-20-2019, 01:53 PM   #7126
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    interesting. Good to hear he is writing and feeling renewed in that sense as well.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 01:55 PM   #7127
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SmoothRider[PL] View Post
    https://prestigemjm.com/2019/caly-ze...8QiDL50R1tzznI

    "Przyjeżdżacie do Polski w ramach promocji płyty Come Tomorrow. Co było powodem, że praca nad nią zajęła wam aż sześć lat?
    Mówiąc bardzo ogólnie, zespół przechodził przez bardzo trudny czas. Zwłaszcza jeśli chodzi o kwestie związane z osobowościami, o kwestie personalne. Wiesz, nagrywaliśmy mnóstwo muzyki, ale trudno nam było poczuć z tym więź. I dopiero jak wszyscy podjęliśmy decyzję, że Boyd musi odejść z zespołu i zrobić to, co powinien zrobić, mogliśmy iść dalej. Wcześniej strasznie nam to ciążyło… Nawet sami sobie nie zdawaliśmy sprawy jak bardzo. On nas ściągał w dół. Gdy w końcu to się stało, poczuliśmy nową energię. Tim i ja stworzyliśmy mnóstwo dobrej muzyki. Teraz w zespole jest nowy muzyk, Buddy Strong. Nie mówię, że chciałbym zmieniać przeszłość, ale w tej chwili zespół jest w znakomitej formie, wszyscy są bardzo zaangażowani. Dzięki temu dużo komponuję i dlatego mam nadzieję, że przerwa przed następną płytą będzie dużo krótsza."

    "You come to Poland as part of the promotion of the Come Tomorrow album. What was the reason that it took you six years to work on it?
    Generally speaking, the band went through a very difficult time. Especially when it comes to issues related to personalities, about personal issues. You know, we recorded a lot of music, but it was difficult to feel the bond with it. And it was not until we all decided that Boyd had to leave the band and do what he should do, we could go on. Earlier, it was very weary ... We did not even realize how much. He pulled us down. When it finally happened, we felt new energy. Tim and I have created a lot of good music. Now in the band is a new musician, Buddy Strong. I am not saying that I would like to change the past, but at the moment the team is in great shape, everyone is very involved. Thanks to this, I compose a lot and that is why I hope that the break before the next album will be much shorter."
    I'm not 100% sure what Dave is saying here. It sounds like he's speaking for everyone and blaming Boyd for the band not doing well. I personally think that's a copout. I'm not saying they should've figured it out with him still there, or that booting him wasn't the right decision... but the article just sounds like they're blaming him and not themselves, and I think if they hit a creative rut, that's on all of them.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 02:05 PM   #7128
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    The main thing I took away from that is we might get a new album sooner rather than later. The Boyd stuff was already known.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 02:31 PM   #7129
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    The main thing I took away from that is we might get a new album sooner rather than later. The Boyd stuff was already known.
    You know, that happy talk is not enough to get me excited anymore. I’ll believe it when I see it. I won’t be surprised if all we get is more stuff Dave should just do solo. I have no hope we’ll see a true band album anymore.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 02:59 PM   #7130
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heyberto View Post
    I'm not 100% sure what Dave is saying here. It sounds like he's speaking for everyone and blaming Boyd for the band not doing well. I personally think that's a copout. I'm not saying they should've figured it out with him still there, or that booting him wasn't the right decision... but the article just sounds like they're blaming him and not themselves, and I think if they hit a creative rut, that's on all of them.
    i agree, they sound worse without BT IMO and the sets are even more stale.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #7131
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
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    i agree, they sound worse without BT IMO and the sets are even more stale.
    Buddy is one helluva great player, but it’s like he’s become the reason they’re all invigorated. Watching Dave ogle over him on stage like he’s the greatest thing he’s ever heard is just hilarious to me. I’d rather have Butch Taylor, tbh. The organ on Everyday just kills the vibe IMO
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    Old 03-20-2019, 04:11 PM   #7132
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

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    Originally Posted by Heyberto View Post
    Buddy is one helluva great player, but it’s like he’s become the reason they’re all invigorated. Watching Dave ogle over him on stage like he’s the greatest thing he’s ever heard is just hilarious to me. I’d rather have Butch Taylor, tbh. The organ on Everyday just kills the vibe IMO
    Exactly. Buddy adds essentially nothing. I don’t even notice him. Bring back Butch!
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    Old 03-20-2019, 04:25 PM   #7133
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heyberto View Post
    Buddy is one helluva great player, but it’s like he’s become the reason they’re all invigorated. Watching Dave ogle over him on stage like he’s the greatest thing he’s ever heard is just hilarious to me. I’d rather have Butch Taylor, tbh. The organ on Everyday just kills the vibe IMO
    Yeah i agree, Dave was smiling at Boyd like that at The Gorge 9-04-2016, even exchanges words with him after LIOG and appears to say good job. I pointed it out a while back in a post. The full show on Youtube you can see the exchange i am not sure about the Blu Ray.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 04:34 PM   #7134
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    The scariest part of that interview is “I am not saying that I’d like to change the past but...” Just reaffirms that Dave wants the band to sound like the newer stuff rather than the older stuff - which we all already knew - but sucks to see come to fruition on setlists.

    I always think back to the interview clips with the producers leading up to the CT release when Cavallo said that Dave sat him down, played “Can’t Stop”, and said “this is what I want the band to sound like.” Dave has the worst taste in his own music.
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    Old 03-20-2019, 04:37 PM   #7135
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Also, I like Buddy but don’t think he adds much. Would much rather have a keyboard guesting on a couple of songs but also prefer Buddy to having to listen to Dave play piano with two fingers.

    My friend who went to the Gorge with me had never heard Buddy before and turned to me at one point during N1 when he was soloing and said “he’s not very good, is he?”
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    Old 03-20-2019, 04:40 PM   #7136
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spiza View Post
    Yeah i agree, Dave was smiling at Boyd like that at The Gorge 9-04-2016, even exchanges words with him after LIOG and appears to say good job. I pointed it out a while back in a post. The full show on Youtube you can see the exchange i am not sure about the Blu Ray.
    I’ve watched that interaction many times. Did you notice the awkward tension between Tim, Carter, Dave and Boyd before Boyd went on to do his solo on LIOG? It was definitely interesting to see the dynamic between them.

    It also appeared that Boyd waited 4 extra measures before playing. It felt like Carter was like.. what are you waiting for?

    Remember this was also a time where Boyd alledgely did not show up to the green room/backstage until just before the show. So the tension and lack of confidence in boyD was def present
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    Old 03-20-2019, 06:11 PM   #7137
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz View Post
    I’ve watched that interaction many times. Did you notice the awkward tension between Tim, Carter, Dave and Boyd before Boyd went on to do his solo on LIOG? It was definitely interesting to see the dynamic between them.

    It also appeared that Boyd waited 4 extra measures before playing. It felt like Carter was like.. what are you waiting for?

    Remember this was also a time where Boyd alledgely did not show up to the green room/backstage until just before the show. So the tension and lack of confidence in boyD was def present

    Yeah there seemed to be some serious tension going on before Boyd's solo, he does a great job though it sounded awesome. I had no idea he did not show up to backstage right before the show. Was it at this Gorge weekend or a diff venue?
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    Old 03-20-2019, 06:38 PM   #7138
    Heyberto
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spiza View Post
    Yeah there seemed to be some serious tension going on before Boyd's solo, he does a great job though it sounded awesome. I had no idea he did not show up to backstage right before the show. Was it at this Gorge weekend or a diff venue?
    Well,stage awkwardness has been going on for years. In 09 Dave had to coerce him into more of a solo on Jimi, over the microphone. It was done playfully, but it was like.. why in the hell did he have to do that at all? That was a notable show where Boyd just wanted to be somewhere else.
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    Old 03-21-2019, 04:45 AM   #7139
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Seems like a pretty shitty thing for Dave to say, even if it was true. Boyd helped you become as rich and popular as you are today. I was going to say the great band you are today but they have regressed so that's not an appropriate statement. While I agree from a musician stand point Boyd might be easily replaced but from a sound point of the music the violin is not, not matter how much you try to jam Buddy down our throats its not an even swap. Just get a violin player for shit's sake. When Roi died you didn't think the sound would be the same so you got Jeff, even though Rashawn was already in the mix. Not sure why think the violin is.
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    Old 03-22-2019, 03:44 AM   #7140
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    Re: The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

    Was that interview done in Poland during this current tour, or was it elsewhere first? Funny as delicate as some of this stuff is that you’d give more pressing detail or make such a loaded statement in an interview done in Poland!?!?

    As for the interactions between Boyd and the rest of the band in 2016 - it’s very strange. I recently rewatched some of the Alpine shows as I was in attendance...there is almost no interaction from anyone else and Boyd on stage. He’s flailing around like he does, and everyone just seems to ignore him. The same with the LIOG solo at the gorge. Did you guys notice him jumping around and Carter and Stefan and they’re both just pretending he isn’t there? Then at the end when Dave says good job - almost looks like Boyd accepts that like he knows he is in trouble at work or something...like last ditch effort because I know my job performance has been awful. Maybe some very temporary validation - but a totally empty interaction.

    Last edited by pbroderi86; 03-22-2019 at 03:45 AM.
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