Stefan Interview

[Dodo36]

A bassist myself, I didn't mean to impugn anyone's tastes, but versatility is a key asset in a great bass player. I'm not talking just styles, but being able to thump, pick, or finger and hold the pocket, take the lead, or throw a counter-line without it being a question beyond 'what approach supports the song better' ? I truly believe that his contribution to Government Mule's Deep End album was a turning point in his acknowledgement of his ability. If you watch the making of that album, he visibly shows how he had a breakdown and realizes how his playing had been more 'follow-the-leader' up to then.

I only partly concede the point of lead bass, which really only omits Vic, Flea, and Willie Weeks (depending on the tune cited) from that list. I didn't come up with a list just to show "I know stuff," those are all great pocket players who accentuate the melody and rhythm without pulling focus AND can take lead - both while still having a unique voice. If you recognize their names as alead, they did not start or even spend most of their career that way. That's the very reason I didn't list Claypool, who's style is almost too unique to be compatible with anything but his own music. Bootsy may be a lead now, but when he was with James Brown he certainly wasn't, nor with George Clinton unless he was directed to be so. I always pinch my nose when mentioning McCartney. He's an average bass player who is elevated when considering his frontman ability. Jaco was one of the greatest technical players, but his soul only ever shined when he was playing lead.

Stefan can follow a groove and support a melody splendidly, but that is the job of a bass player. I'm not questioning his technical ability, nor am I expecting to hear him pull off "Classical Thump." He's easily on par with Sting, John Deacon, and many others. I look forward to the future of his career now that he is starting to really make attempts to define his sound outside of 'follow, Dave, follow Carter.' Anyone could have written the lines on R2T through SU. Ever since BWGK, he has been showing more of what he sounds like on the instrument. Like I said, he's a good player, but (partly due to band politics) he has yet to really show us his voice consistently.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman

Did you read what he responded to? The guy said if a certain musician (Stefan in this case) ranks in YOUR personal top 20, you haven’t looked at other musicians of the same instrument. That’s an absurd and way off base statement. And yes, it does depend on what you’re looking for in a bass player. If you want someone doing crazy solos and runs all over the place, and someone taking the spotlight - Stefan is not that player. He’s a key piece to the foundation of the song, he does not play lead

The spot...you're on it.

Were Jaco still alive, he could play some wonderful solos in a guest spot at a DMB show. I'm sure he's also write some great basslines, but they would undoubtedly be busier and more pronounced than Stef's. Whether they'd be better, would be completely subjective.

What we're working off is an existing body of work, a substantial majority of which we all enjoy. As I say with the Beatles, I NEVER listen to a DMB track and think about how much better they would if:
- they had a less busy drummer
- a more pronounced bass player
- different singer
- better violinist (seriously, never thought about until he was out of the band as his sound and style were part of the sound and style of the band)
- more harmonically complex sax player

I hear and love the music and know that it doesn't sound the way we love without this exact mix of players. To that end, I wouldn't change a thing. And as DMB is one of my favorite bands, Fonz is one of my favorite bassists (along with Tony Levin, Macca, Sting, Geddy, Juan Nelson, Jonesy, the Ox, Crawford, Squire, Edgar Meyers, Mr. PC, Oteil, Tommy Shannon, Mitchell, Pinnick, and I could one for way longer than anyone gives a shit about).

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by Dodo36

Anyone could have written the lines on R2T through SU.

But the thing is, Stef DID write those lines. He was the guy the trusted to do that...a green player (and person) and he created his role. Of course anything he did or does outside of DMB is going to be difficult and stressful, because he has a psychological security blanket of the band. It seems he's long undervalued his role and skills, but those basslines he wrote are important pieces of all of those songs. The difficulty and uniqueness of a part has little bearing on the quality or appropriateness of a part.

I get you though, I just disagree with some of your perception...which, of course, makes it no less valid a perspective.

[ToySoldier#34]

I love how Stefan has always known how to blend into the music and play in a way where it isn't about him, LeRoi had this ability as well

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

I love how Stefan has always known how to blend into the music and play in a way where it isn't about him, LeRoi had this ability as well

Something Boyd rarely got. That said, Lillywhite was able to coax wonderful things from him...seemingly beyond his inherent ability.

I miss hearing LeRoi so much. We've got tons of amazing live stuff and all of the great studio stuff, but it's not the same as hearing him live. I deeply regret not seeing the band more while he was still with us, even if it meant having to listen to Butch.

[snake911]

Originally Posted by Dodo36

I only partly concede the point of lead bass, which really only omits Vic, Flea, and Willie Weeks (depending on the tune cited) from that list. I didn't come up with a list just to show "I know stuff," those are all great pocket players who accentuate the melody and rhythm without pulling focus AND can take lead - both while still having a unique voice. If you recognize their names as alead, they did not start or even spend most of their career that way. That's the very reason I didn't list Claypool, who's style is almost too unique to be compatible with anything but his own music. Bootsy may be a lead now, but when he was with James Brown he certainly wasn't, nor with George Clinton unless he was directed to be so. I always pinch my nose when mentioning McCartney. He's an average bass player who is elevated when considering his frontman ability. Jaco was one of the greatest technical players, but his soul only ever shined when he was playing lead.

.

I'm beyond biased on this subject, and that's total hogwash. Listen to Pat Metheny- Bright Size Life. Jaco comes to the front and rips off some great lines and solos here and there, but mostly sits in the back and creates an incredible melody that Metheny improvs over. Jaco could lay back and be a magnificent support player. It's an early recording, but I would say his soul is shining pretty brightly on it. And I'm not trying to pick a fight on this point or be over contentious, I could discuss music (and especially Bass) forever.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by snake911

I'm beyond biased on this subject, and that's total hogwash. Listen to Pat Metheny- Bright Size Life. Jaco comes to the front and rips off some great lines and solos here and there, but mostly sits in the back and creates an incredible melody that Metheny improvs over. Jaco could lay back and be a magnificent support player. It's an early recording, but I would say his soul is shining pretty brightly on it. And I'm not trying to pick a fight on this point or be over contentious, I could discuss music (and especially Bass) forever.

Same when he played w/ Joni. Jaco was a complete musician, able to wonderfully back anyone giving everything. But, the idea of expression is so subjective. A musician either speaks to your or they don't, but it doesn't really speak to what they're putting into any performance.

Not comparing the two, but Fonz spoke to me immediately. He got me appreciating basslines in a time when many players in popular bands were just chugging root notes or trying to be Flea (and maybe Les).

[Dodo36]

I was a bit careless with my wording there, snake911. I'm still missing the words to equate it, but I love Jaco's playing. Still, I feel like he was more of the bass version of Eddie Van Halen - a technical master beyond reproach, but the spirit could too easily get lost in the shuffle. Vic gets into that territory, too.

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

Same when he played w/ Joni. Jaco was a complete musician, able to wonderfully back anyone giving everything. But, the idea of expression is so subjective. A musician either speaks to your or they don't, but it doesn't really speak to what they're putting into any performance.

Not comparing the two, but Fonz spoke to me immediately. He got me appreciating basslines in a time when many players in popular bands were just chugging root notes or trying to be Flea (and maybe Les).

Interesting, I was going to use the Joni tour as an example of the opposite! When Jaco was on, he was on fire. When he wasn't, he didn't exactly play in support of the tune.

The 80s and early 90s were a dark time for bass in popular music. Popular application of bass was less focused on the groove and more on underpinning the progression so guitarists could take the spotlight more, because it worked for the label's marketing purposes. Anything else was a niche market, or those few break-thrus that featured the bass were treated more as novelty songs than for their merits.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by Dodo36

Interesting, I was going to use the Joni tour as an example of the opposite! When Jaco was on, he was on fire. When he wasn't, he didn't exactly play in support of the tune.

Joni hired Jaco, Metheny, Brecker, Mays, and Alias to do their thing...in the context of her music. She was more than okay with the vast majority of what they did.

I was going to add in my previous that in the combined spirit of being a jazz/improvisational musician, his substance issues, and mental health problems, Jaco could be wildly inconsistent from a straight listening perspective. I've seen clips where he seems full into it, but not playing particularly well (for Jaco, not a normal musician), but others where he's tearing up and sounding wonderful (and he might look completely bored or disinterested). That said, he was always a showman and hamming it up or downplaying it (and everything in between) as needed. So, it's really more about trying to objectively listen to what he playing rather than the aesthetics.

Lastly, soloing or being a soloist takes ones playing and music to a different place. Ideally, it's embellishing it and adding another part to an already wonderful tune and/or arrangement. At worst, it's a showboating moment that not only adds nothing, but instead detracts from the whole. Jaco, Jerry, Eddie, Blackmore, and countless other musicians that flew by their seat of their pants (being their considerable and often evolving musical abilities and vision) have an almost exponentially higher possibility of having more lows as a counter their highs. And for many of these types of players those highs are expressive musical contortions as well as being completely out of their gourds on all sorts of horrible drugs. Jaco (and others) had the added layer of mental health issues that weren't properly recognized, diagnosed, or treated.

Stef seems somewhat unique from that perspective, Carter too, as I've never heard any noise about them having issues relating to substance abuse.

[snake911]

Interesting thoughts on the mental illness/substance use issue (and how many folks are using substances to try to manage a mental illness). Do they have the capacity to open you up to sounds and styles you might close off to mentally? Sure. Do they create the capacity for you to hear things that arent there, and non-substance users say "yikes that sounds terrible, hes really off today"? Yep. The total life story of someone like a Jaco or a Nina Simone has so much unnecessary tragedy in it.


In a broad sense, not totally related to substance use, I think that people who push themselves to explore beyond what others have played or heard before are also going to have unlistenable momements. You cant find how far the sounds can go unless you push them over the edge. My favorite live band ever was The Mars Volta, and some nights the jamming went to incredible places where I had never heard music go before, and some nights it would all fall apart and just be a loud hot chaotic mess. Sometimes the experiments and explorations turn up poor ideas, especially so in a style like Jazz where live spontaneity and improvisation is so much a part of the experience. It could also be that a music style that highly values wildly improvisational and spontaneous decision making also attracts folks who may not be the most stable mentally and/or open to experimenting in other arenas like drugs.


On the Fonz topic specifically, I think soloing is his weakest aspect as a bass player. Most of his solo intros into Crush or Watchtower come off sounding very hesitant and formulaic to me. I get the sense that he is less comfortable with spontaneity on his instrument and prefers to work within an established framework. And inside that framework his sense of timing and expression are masterful.

[grilldanmo]

For me Stef opened my ears and helped me realize one of the problems I’ve had with playing guitar for so long...I should have been a bassist.

I’ve owned two and still own a Godin A5 (fretted), but life and a family relegated playing to occasional at most, so when I do pick up and instrument it’s almost always guitar. I know it’s never too late, but I might be too lazy . I always loved Sting’s bass in the Police, Paul in the Beatles, Levin with Gabriel, Waters (and Gilmour) with Floyd, Talbot with Crazy, Danko, Jonesy, Cliff, Family Man, Deacon, Flea, Squire, Myung, Trujillo (Suicidal and IG), Zender, Franklin, Juan Nelson, Entwistle, David Brown with Santana, and so many many more. And that’s just from “popular” music, haven’t even touched the jazz, bluegrass, classical, ethnic/folk, and other genres. That spot between the rhythm and harmony, it’s the sweet spot...

[NewOrleans]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

I love how Stefan has always known how to blend into the music and play in a way where it isn't about him, LeRoi had this ability as well

That's what drew me to this band. Every member isn't trying to be in the spotlight. Even when they solo. It's just adding to the songs. Roi was the best at this and likely taught Fonz.