The Decision: Boyd Leaving DMB

[onesweetworld41]

I like Buddy with the band - I think the biggest issue is even with the songs "reworked" there are still some moments where it's very awkward that there's no violin.

Example: SPAC N2 going into the JTR outro, it was like dead air for 10-15 seconds where Boyd would lead it into the outro. Rashawn can only do so much mimicking the violin for critical parts and possibly the organ would make for better fills in those cases and someone with a fiddle would be the easiest choice in the future.

[bfiddle27]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

Yeah, I disagree. I get the moving in a new direction thing and all, but covering for that part of the sound love with other instruments just isn’t working. To think they couldn’t do with a violin going forward is just stupid whatever their reasoning is. They sound more like a backing band with Dave fronting them, playing DMB.. than they actually sound like DMB.

What is this obsession about "Sound like DMB" .. what does that even mean?
I am seriously inquiring, not judging, but this statement over the years (Stand up album had this going for it too) has baffled me ...

Sound like DMB is completely a SUBJECTIVE outlook, maybe they don't sound like DMB because you defined it WITH violin, so be it... here is my outlook .

SOUND LIKE DMB==-->For me and many others, who have been there since the beginning days, the spirit of the band has been Daves words, his poetry, his MESSAGE, the ENERGY they give you when you listen to their music whether live or on an album, the power of the music no matter what instruments are communicating it! (That's why I love hearing acoustic dave SOLO as much as D&T as much as I love the full band (although I have mentioned, my older ears these days appreciate D&T for their mellower vibe more than band but still... I go to a live show or put on an album to feel the spirit of those words with that music and the way it's written, I simply don't care what combination of instruments brings that out and makes me feel like I do)

[dmbbearcat]

I do enjoy Dave's poetic message about eating box at the age of 51.

[snow1868]

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

I do enjoy Dave's poetic message about eating box at the age of 51.

[YouNeverKnow25]

dave and 4 kazoo players tooting out Steady As We Go should be enough for you people, as long as they all have taht ENNERGIEZ

[Prezzy]

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

I do enjoy Dave's poetic message about eating box at the age of 51.

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by bfiddle27

What is this obsession about "Sound like DMB" .. what does that even mean?
I am seriously inquiring, not judging, but this statement over the years (Stand up album had this going for it too) has baffled me ...

Sound like DMB is completely a SUBJECTIVE outlook, maybe they don't sound like DMB because you defined it WITH violin, so be it... here is my outlook .

SOUND LIKE DMB==-->For me and many others, who have been there since the beginning days, the spirit of the band has been Daves words, his poetry, his MESSAGE, the ENERGY they give you when you listen to their music whether live or on an album, the power of the music no matter what instruments are communicating it! (That's why I love hearing acoustic dave SOLO as much as D&T as much as I love the full band (although I have mentioned, my older ears these days appreciate D&T for their mellower vibe more than band but still... I go to a live show or put on an album to feel the spirit of those words with that music and the way it's written, I simply don't care what combination of instruments brings that out and makes me feel like I do)

Not easily definable but I'll give it a shot. It's not one thing, it's the combination of all those elements. Dave can go write songs and all that poetic stuff an put it in front of any band, and it sounds like Dave. His solo album showed that. But that didn't sound like DMB, nor should it.

The thing that always set the sound of the band apart was essentially, Roi and Boyd. Yeah, Carter is one of the more distinctive drummers in the business, and that helps, but That fusion sound of jazz/bluegrass or however you choose to define it... it was a distinct musical voice that sounded like nothing else. That sound evolved over time. I recall with BTCS was heralded as this massive departure. But it always sounded like them.

Then came ED and Stand Up. listen to this material live and you still get the sound of the band coming through. That was the constant as the material evolved.

With BWGK, Boyd took a back seat, but you still had Roi on it in a singular fashion, despite the horn section. This was the new live sound brought into the studio, but still undeniably DMB.

AFTW... almost like a step back from where they were sonically headed. The guy that gets how to use Boyd used him well on this one. Horn section in full effect.

So despite any upheaval in producers, personnel, and songwriting process, there was a constant in the melodic section of the band in one form or another.

CT is a complete departure. The horn section is full on and diminished quite a bit, reflective of how it is live. No Boyd outside of one song. The defining melodic sound that has defined DMB is now gone completely. Some may consider that evolution, but it sounds more like a homogenization toward a conventional sound band wise, relying on Carter and Dave alone to maintain some form of the sound that sets them apart, with only the rhythm section remaining.

So by not replacing Boyd, the only real familiar element are horns that are used differently. It's not a complete departure, but the core sound that I loved... The way the violin and sax work together... that's gone.

I like Dave solo fine, but it always felt appropriately separated sonically from the band. It's not anymore. The removal of the violin is a drastic move in that department, and I miss it. It wouldn't have been any different if they hadn't replaced Leroi back in 2008. They've moved from an innovative sound to a more conventional one in the name of 'evolving'. It think it's the opposite.

[KevinTH]

Random thought from over the weekend...Did anyone here ever hear the soundcheck IEM when Dave suggested they might walk in and find BT and Roi 69'ing? It was hilarious. Given what we now know about Boyd...ah, it's still hilarious.

[garagebrothers]

Originally Posted by KevinTH

Random thought from over the weekend...Did anyone here ever hear the soundcheck IEM when Dave suggested they might walk in and find BT and Roi 69'ing? It was hilarious. Given what we now know about Boyd...ah, it's still hilarious.

Who was on top?

[The Coach]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

.......

The thing that always set the sound of the band apart was essentially, Roi and Boyd. Yeah, Carter is one of the more distinctive drummers in the business, and that helps, but That fusion sound of jazz/bluegrass or however you choose to define it... it was a distinct musical voice that sounded like nothing else. That sound evolved over time. I recall with BTCS was heralded as this massive departure. But it always sounded like them........

So by not replacing Boyd, the only real familiar element are horns that are used differently. It's not a complete departure, but the core sound that I loved... The way the violin and sax work together... that's gone.

I like all of these points. Gone doesn't mean bad, but it's just different.

I'm curious if they're interested in even having a violin sound at all. I'd be interested in hearing Buddy play violin parts on a Roli Seaboard. I think it would add depth and his own musical take on jamming out to the tunes that had Boyd as a feature.

For those that haven't seen Roli Seaboard, here's a couple of videos. The first is just an example of the realistic quality of a violin. The second is an amazing rendition of Purple Rain, for which if you were to just listen without watching, you'd think an entire band was playing (I'd advise watching the entire clip):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=XiDxgxrrT7s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2fQbtp2BgY4

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by The Coach

I like all of these points. Gone doesn't mean bad, but it's just different.

I'm curious if they're interested in even having a violin sound at all. I'd be interested in hearing Buddy play violin parts on a Roli Seaboard. I think it would add depth and his own musical take on jamming out to the tunes that had Boyd as a feature.

For those that haven't seen Roli Seaboard, here's a couple of videos. The first is just an example of the realistic quality of a violin. The second is an amazing rendition of Purple Rain, for which if you were to just listen without watching, you'd think an entire band was playing (I'd advise watching the entire clip):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=XiDxgxrrT7s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2fQbtp2BgY4

I think it's safe to say that Dave isn't. But my guess is if they wanted it, then there would be one on tour.

[willndmb]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

I think it's safe to say that Dave isn't. But my guess is if they wanted it, then there would be one on tour.

I disagree, bringing in a violin shuts BT out forever.
I think they are purposely leaving the door open if he can come back.
at least on the short term

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by willndmb

I disagree, bringing in a violin shuts BT out forever.
I think they are purposely leaving the door open if he can come back.
at least on the short term

How is that? That's easily a short term contract for a touring member for the duration of a planned tour.

Jeff wasn't brought in to replace Leroi... he was expected to return once he recovered from injuries. It wasn't until he passed that they decided to make him permanent.

This kind of stuff happens all the time.

[dmbbearcat]

Dave just went on the record saying that Boyd was lazy and shitty, plus he's in the middle of a sexual harassment suit. He is done.

[YouNeverKnow25]

boyd ain't coming back

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

Dave just went on the record saying that Boyd was lazy and shitty, plus he's in the middle of a sexual harassment suit. He is done.

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

boyd ain't coming back

Right. Hard for me to see how he'd even want to. Dude was as disinterested on stage the past 10 years or so as someone could be... if he hadn't snapped out of it in that time period, I don't see him coming back, even if the legal and PR mess is sorted out... which I doubt will happen.

[bfiddle27]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

Not easily definable but I'll give it a shot. It's not one thing, it's the combination of all those elements. Dave can go write songs and all that poetic stuff an put it in front of any band, and it sounds like Dave. His solo album showed that. But that didn't sound like DMB, nor should it.

The thing that always set the sound of the band apart was essentially, Roi and Boyd. Yeah, Carter is one of the more distinctive drummers in the business, and that helps, but That fusion sound of jazz/bluegrass or however you choose to define it... it was a distinct musical voice that sounded like nothing else. That sound evolved over time. I recall with BTCS was heralded as this massive departure. But it always sounded like them.

Then came ED and Stand Up. listen to this material live and you still get the sound of the band coming through. That was the constant as the material evolved.

With BWGK, Boyd took a back seat, but you still had Roi on it in a singular fashion, despite the horn section. This was the new live sound brought into the studio, but still undeniably DMB.

AFTW... almost like a step back from where they were sonically headed. The guy that gets how to use Boyd used him well on this one. Horn section in full effect.

So despite any upheaval in producers, personnel, and songwriting process, there was a constant in the melodic section of the band in one form or another.

CT is a complete departure. The horn section is full on and diminished quite a bit, reflective of how it is live. No Boyd outside of one song. The defining melodic sound that has defined DMB is now gone completely. Some may consider that evolution, but it sounds more like a homogenization toward a conventional sound band wise, relying on Carter and Dave alone to maintain some form of the sound that sets them apart, with only the rhythm section remaining.

So by not replacing Boyd, the only real familiar element are horns that are used differently. It's not a complete departure, but the core sound that I loved... The way the violin and sax work together... that's gone.

I like Dave solo fine, but it always felt appropriately separated sonically from the band. It's not anymore. The removal of the violin is a drastic move in that department, and I miss it. It wouldn't have been any different if they hadn't replaced Leroi back in 2008. They've moved from an innovative sound to a more conventional one in the name of 'evolving'. It think it's the opposite.

RESPECT, Great points, I get it, thanks for sharing.

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by bfiddle27

RESPECT, Great points, I get it, thanks for sharing.

Cool.. thanks.

[snake911]

Originally Posted by BringBackButchT

3-4 months is definitely enough time for a professional musician to get a solid grasp of the material. They're in a tougher spot than most with DMB, with a gigantic catalog, different sets ever night and no sheet music to reference, but it's totally doable.

I dont know if they have full sheet music for songs, but Jeff was definitely referencing some sort of paper on a music stand for his first couple of weeks/months. Maybe they were horn charts vs full sheet music? in '08 it was talked about how they would be playing through songs live for the first time or two and he would be making notes on his charts where the key or melody had changed from when originally written and would then play the notes differently the next time through. Jeff may also be a bit of a special case, but a pro can adapt pretty quickly.

[Bmwm3oz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyGZzT1zzGM

Thought this would be topical but likely already mentioned. In the first minute, it’s clear Boyd is pulling the ‘show up just before he show’ move. Dave says ‘we got Tinsley coming’ and then he shows up on the way out to the show and Carter says ‘ahh, there he is’.

Fun to look back at these and understand really what was going on. Scary to think what was on Boyd’s hand as he grabbed Carter’s hand too...

[willndmb]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

How is that? That's easily a short term contract for a touring member for the duration of a planned tour.

Jeff wasn't brought in to replace Leroi... he was expected to return once he recovered from injuries. It wasn't until he passed that they decided to make him permanent.

This kind of stuff happens all the time.

yes but Roi said to bring in Jeff as a temp
BT I'm sure isn't pushing for a fill in or replacement

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

Dave just went on the record saying that Boyd was lazy and shitty, plus he's in the middle of a sexual harassment suit. He is done.

true but that's also months after it all started to break down and come to light.
If daves tells BT to get his shit together and take a break then fills his spot with someone who makes him look like shit that's not helpful in the beginning.
It's all a timing issue imo

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by willndmb

yes but Roi said to bring in Jeff as a temp
BT I'm sure isn't pushing for a fill in or replacement

What difference does that make? The point was... If the band wanted a temporary violin, they’d have one.

[willndmb]

Originally Posted by Heyberto

What difference does that make? The point was... If the band wanted a temporary violin, they’d have one.

The point is they're are not going to have someone fill in that's going to make him look like crap
Roi can handle his own with Jeff

[Heyberto]

Originally Posted by willndmb

The point is they're are not going to have someone fill in that's going to make him look like crap
Roi can handle his own with Jeff

The fact that Dave called him out in an interview negates that line of thinking. If they wanted to save face for him, he never would’ve said that.

I don’t think they care at all how it looks. If they did, and got a fill in violinist, it would either push Boyd to be better, or force him out completely. Either way, they’d have a violin if they wanted it... they obviously don’t. They’re clearly content without it.

I don’t think he’s coming back anyway.

[Bmwm3oz]

There is NO chance Boyd will ever be back.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz

There is NO chance Boyd will ever be back.

Nope, he isn't coming back. If anything, it sounds like this lawsuit thing gave them the final reason Dave's been looking for to push him out.

[wrhslax1996]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

Nope, he isn't coming back. If anything, it sounds like this lawsuit thing gave them the final reason Dave's been looking for to push him out.

Bingo. Anyone expecting a Boyd return (or even entertaining one) is almost definitely delusional. I mean it was clear to US that Boyd didn't give a shit for the last 15 or so years. Must've been 9000x more frustrating for the other band members.

[karczews41]

I feel much different after seeing Dave's comments recently on Boyd - I think it's implausible that Boyd makes a return anytime in the next several years. Man do I miss the violin on stage though - would love to have a fill in.

[comeandsee41]

i dont think the issue ever truly was whether boyd will return, but rather, will the violin return?

[dewke]

Originally Posted by comeandsee41

i dont think the issue ever truly was whether boyd will return, but rather, will the violin return?

I expect a violin next year