Asking for a (significant) raise

[AlpineValley804]

Looking for some advice as well as people just sharing their general experience on how to go about this process in the most professional and tactful way possible.

As some of you know, I've been living in Tennesse for close to three years (it will in fact be that anniversary at the end of September), and for over two of those years, I have been employed as a Route Driver for a high-end local dry cleaner that is based in Nashville.

To start off, I do love my current job and I love the people I work for. It is without question the best job I have ever had. But for the last several months (at least), the hours have been getting longer and longer to the point where a 45-50 hour work week is becoming the norm, and I am salaried so I am not getting paid for these hours. I earn a very tiny commission, but it's not enough to where I see it as an incentive when I have new customers added to my route. I just see it as longer hours and that commission is no way matching up to the time being added by having to service them.

On top of this, I have a 45 minute + commute, and I want to be able to live closer to work, but it is simply not affordable to do so on the salary I am currently being paid. It's getting more and more common that I am leaving in the morning at 7 and rarely being home before 7 pm. Two things about this - I still live at home , but I want to start my own life where I live near the city and work where I can grow a real social life. I also want to be able to actually get home at time where I can have an actual evening and being able to enjoy my time off.

I recently took a survey on GlassDoor to see what my actual market value is for my position (official job title is Route Sales Representative), and it told me that I was losing out on money that added up to nearly a third of my current salary. Now I would definitely like to take a look at what other sites have to say about the same thing, but if GlassDoor is correct, then it would literally be life-changing money that would greatly expedite my ability to live where I actually want to live and be able to support myself entirely and be completely financially independent from my parents.

Lastly and most importantly, I do consider myself to be an asset to the business I work for and this isn't me simply projecting what I want to believe is true. As I implied above, I have a great working relationship with my bosses, who are the owners, but I also have a great relationship with my customers as well. Not to toot my own horn, but there have been countless phone calls, e-mails etc. made on my behalf complimenting me for my excellent service and that I have raised the bar in comparison to previous drivers. I've lost count of how many customers who used us semi-regularly at best when I started and now use us weekly (and it's very frequently in accordance with having several personal interactions with them). Before going out to California for my vacation, my boss who is well aware of my interest of working in the film industry jokingly said "Don't do any interviews while you're out there!" Suffice it to say, I do believe I have given a lot to the success of this business in the 2+ years I have worked for them, but I am starting to get burnt out for compensation that I couldn't even support myself on just when basic life expenses are accounted for. It may become necessary that I will have to start looking for other work and I don't want to do that.

So for the TL;DR crowd - I believe I am grossly underpaid for a job that I overall love and want to keep, so what is the best way to approach this delicate issue with bosses that I have always had a great relationship with up to this point? What negotiation tactics would you suggest? Appreciate hearing your wisdom.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by AlpineValley804

Looking for some advice as well as people just sharing their general experience on how to go about this process in the most professional and tactful way possible.

As some of you know, I've been living in Tennesse for close to three years (it will in fact be that anniversary at the end of September), and for over two of those years, I have been employed as a Route Driver for a high-end local dry cleaner that is based in Nashville.

To start off, I do love my current job and I love the people I work for. It is without question the best job I have ever had. But for the last several months (at least), the hours have been getting longer and longer to the point where a 45-50 hour work week is becoming the norm, and I am salaried so I am not getting paid for these hours. I earn a very tiny commission, but it's not enough to where I see it as an incentive when I have new customers added to my route. I just see it as longer hours and that commission is no way matching up to the time being added by having to service them.

On top of this, I have a 45 minute + commute, and I want to be able to live closer to work, but it is simply not affordable to do so on the salary I am currently being paid. It's getting more and more common that I am leaving in the morning at 7 and rarely being home before 7 pm. Two things about this - I still live at home , but I want to start my own life where I live near the city and work where I can grow a real social life. I also want to be able to actually get home at time where I can have an actual evening and being able to enjoy my time off.

I recently took a survey on GlassDoor to see what my actual market value is for my position (official job title is Route Sales Representative), and it told me that I was losing out on money that added up to nearly a third of my current salary. Now I would definitely like to take a look at what other sites have to say about the same thing, but if GlassDoor is correct, then it would literally be life-changing money that would greatly expedite my ability to live where I actually want to live and be able to support myself entirely and be completely financially independent from my parents.

Lastly and most importantly, I do consider myself to be an asset to the business I work for and this isn't me simply projecting what I want to believe is true. As I implied above, I have a great working relationship with my bosses, who are the owners, but I also have a great relationship with my customers as well. Not to toot my own horn, but there have been countless phone calls, e-mails etc. made on my behalf complimenting me for my excellent service and that I have raised the bar in comparison to previous drivers. I've lost count of how many customers who used us semi-regularly at best when I started and now use us weekly (and it's very frequently in accordance with having several personal interactions with them). Before going out to California for my vacation, my boss who is well aware of my interest of working in the film industry jokingly said "Don't do any interviews while you're out there!" Suffice it to say, I do believe I have given a lot to the success of this business in the 2+ years I have worked for them, but I am starting to get burnt out for compensation that I couldn't even support myself on just when basic life expenses are accounted for. It may become necessary that I will have to start looking for other work and I don't want to do that.

So for the TL;DR crowd - I believe I am grossly underpaid for a job that I overall love and want to keep, so what is the best way to approach this delicate issue with bosses that I have always had a great relationship with up to this point? What negotiation tactics would you suggest? Appreciate hearing your wisdom.

I had a similar issue with a supervisor that I had a great relationship with. I basically told him that I loved the job, loved the company, but want to discuss my compensation. Have a # in mind, and the reasons behind it. Be honest and direct and utilize the relationship

[smudge1]

Did Glassdoor give you a wage demographic for your area?
Check that out, then you'll know where you stand.

[rconverse]

You have to be able to literally demonstrate why you're worth more. It can't just be because of what you think. Even if you're right, you need reasons. Also, the reasons need to be somewhat tangible, not just "I'm good at my job" or "I work hard". When I was able to successfully do this, I automated a process that was taking people 5 days down to 2 hours and still got a ton of resistance. Asking for a raise at a current employer is pretty tough, IMO. As counter intuitive as it sounds, most often people get large salary bumps when they change companies.

Good luck! I'm always for anyone making more money!

[lockman21]

So, just a couple questions -

1) Do you know what other people at your company are compensated for doing the same job? Is it in line with what you're making? I wouldn't use Glassdoor as gospel. It can be a decent benchmark, but there's certainly a strong margin of error in there.

2) What's your relationship like with your immediate superior?

That said, 45-50 hour weeks really aren't that crazy. I put in that kind of work pretty routinely to the point where if I put in less, I feel like I'm slacking off. Not bragging, just saying that with salaried positions, that typically comes with the territory. I can't tell you how many days I had at my last job where I was at the office until 8-9 p.m. Leaving at 7 was pretty much the standard, which is ~55 hour weeks. I'm not saying you're not a valuable asset, but 45 hour weeks is barely above the 40 hours per week expected time.

If you want to ask for a raise, and feel like you deserve it, then listen to smokew11. Ask for some time with your boss, go in prepared with reasons and comparisons. You need ground to stand on and Glassdoor isn't it. Honestly, the biggest raises I ever got were when I had another job offer for more money and I brought it to my boss. Whether or not I had the intention of taking it is another story...Maybe that's not in the cards for you, but that means you need something solid that shows your compensation is not in line with the work you're doing. Find specific examples outside things like Glassdoor. If there's anyone you're comfortable with that you know doing similar work, see if you can have that conversation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xH7eGFuSYI (obviously this is a ridiculous concept, but the idea behind it makes sense if there's someone you're comfortable enough with to share that information)

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by rconverse

You have to be able to literally demonstrate why you're worth more. It can't just be because of what you think. Even if you're right, you need reasons. Also, the reasons need to be somewhat tangible, not just "I'm good at my job" or "I work hard". When I was able to successfully do this, I automated a process that was taking people 5 days down to 2 hours and still got a ton of resistance. Asking for a raise at a current employer is pretty tough, IMO. As counter intuitive as it sounds, most often people get large salary bumps when they change companies.

Good luck! I'm always for anyone making more money!

Lot of truth in this.

[ExistenceNow]

Have you always been salary, or did they move you to that when you started getting overtime?

[AlpineValley804]

Originally Posted by lockman21

So, just a couple questions -

1) Do you know what other people at your company are compensated for doing the same job? Is it in line with what you're making? I wouldn't use Glassdoor as gospel. It can be a decent benchmark, but there's certainly a strong margin of error in there.

2) What's your relationship like with your immediate superior?

1. We have one other full-time driver, who has been there just a tiny bit longer than I have. He is also an excellent employee and our compensation is pretty comparable for the most part. We both do two different routes in the week, servicing both twice a week, and both of his routes consistently are larger in dollar amount so he does bring in more commission wise (Though I once again emphasize that he is an excellent employee, I would say a big part of the reasoning behind his larger dollar amount is that both routes he does are in wealthier areas of town than mine). However, he opted in for the health insurance offering, while I opted out, so he actually does bring in a bit less than I do on our actual paycheck.

2. Honestly, I would say my immediate supervisor is pretty interchangeable (not as a result of disorganization on their end - it's very easy to distinguish on which person to talk with depending on what issue there is to address). It is a family owned business - the husband is generally considered as the primary supervisor on the route end of the business (which is their bread and butter) and also in charge of payroll, the wife is typically in charge of the marking/customer service, and their son is the supervisor who works in the back of the house in charge of the production end of things. I have a very good relationship with all three of them, and depending on where I am at, or what the specific issue is, I will be in pretty frequent contact with all three throughout the day.

I appreciate you giving your perspective on GlassDoor. I certainly didn't try and take for granted that it is gospel, but it nonetheless made me raise an eyebrow when I took that survey. Though I didn't really imply it that greatly in the OP, another reason for making this thread was to get a full scope of perspectives before making an impulsive dive on this delicate topic - so genuinely thank you for sharing your POV, and that goes for the others who have posted as well.

[AlpineValley804]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

Have you always been salary, or did they move you to that when you started getting overtime?

Always been salaried. It changed very briefly near the end of Obama's tenure when he signed an executive order for salaried employees to be switched over to hourly, but it got struck down pretty quickly by a judge. There is no hope for that to come back with Trump in office.

[coolhotwaves]

rconverse nailed it. Show them why you are worth more. If my employee learns new skills, improves efficiency, and increases profit then I would be more than happy to give them a raise. But that is all based off of some baseline level that you were hired at, so show them why you've excelled past that point. Also make mention of your dedication to the company whatever the outcome of the decision.

[TwoStep2888]

I'm not one to give career advice but good luck Casey hope you get it

[M. Steng]

A lot of it depends on how in-demand your job is and how easily they could fill it with someone else who will accept the pay you're getting now, or even less.

The cold, harsh reality of the business/working world is that it's about the bottom line. If you ask for a 1/3 increase in salary, your employer is going to weigh that against your productivity and how little they can get away with paying a replacement who will provide essentially the same services.

In your case, it sounds like your strength is the fact that the customers really like you and that you're driving more sales to the business. Highlight those. Especially in a position that doesn't require a ton of skill you're going to be at a disadvantage in that you are likely easily replaceable. Not to be harsh, just looking at this objectively as possible.

I like my bosses and my bosses like me, but if I asked for a 1/3 raise, they'd either give me like a 3% raise or tell me to pack my shit. The legal field is super competitive in this area so there are probably countless others who would take my job in a heartbeat and probably do it for less than I'm making now. It's part of the reason I'm debating whether or not to ask for a raise in the coming months. I'd rather have this job at this pay than no job and collect unemployment.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

A lot of it depends on how in-demand your job is and how easily they could fill it with someone else who will accept the pay you're getting now, or even less.

The cold, harsh reality of the business/working world is that it's about the bottom line. If you ask for a 1/3 increase in salary, your employer is going to weigh that against your productivity and how little they can get away with paying a replacement who will provide essentially the same services.

In your case, it sounds like your strength is the fact that the customers really like you and that you're driving more sales to the business. Highlight those. Especially in a position that doesn't require a ton of skill you're going to be at a disadvantage in that you are likely easily replaceable. Not to be harsh, just looking at this objectively as possible.

I like my bosses and my bosses like me, but if I asked for a 1/3 raise, they'd either give me like a 3% raise or tell me to pack my shit. The legal field is super competitive in this area so there are probably countless others who would take my job in a heartbeat and probably do it for less than I'm making now. It's part of the reason I'm debating whether or not to ask for a raise in the coming months. I'd rather have this job at this pay than no job and collect unemployment.

Lots of long posts in here so others may have said it but this is what it comes down to... bottom line what are you worth? If you can quantify your value, that's where you start.

[YouNeverKnow25]

You aren't asking for a raise, you're asking for a different job (which might be fine).

I'm seriously not trying to be a dick--you're a delivery driver. To the business model, you bring a driver's license. Your personality and attention to detail are clearly a plus, but do you think you are the only licensed driver in the tri county area with those?

You need to approach them about giving you a different role if you want more money. "Delivery driver" is always going to be nothing more than a line-item expense for the owners of this business.

[deadendstreet]

Originally Posted by rconverse

You have to be able to literally demonstrate why you're worth more. It can't just be because of what you think. Even if you're right, you need reasons. Also, the reasons need to be somewhat tangible, not just "I'm good at my job" or "I work hard". When I was able to successfully do this, I automated a process that was taking people 5 days down to 2 hours and still got a ton of resistance. Asking for a raise at a current employer is pretty tough, IMO. As counter intuitive as it sounds, most often people get large salary bumps when they change companies.

Good luck! I'm always for anyone making more money!

This. Go in and state why you deserve a raise. Mention the emails and customer feedback. But don't be surprised if they shoot you down. Companies usually don't give large salary bumps, at least in my and my friends experiences. If they turn you down, start looking for another job. It sucks, but three years down the road, you will regret staying . Remember, every job offer after this one will be based on what you make currently. So you're screwing yourself out of $$$, by staying.

Regarding loving your job and getting along with the owners, here's a short story. I worked at a company for six years. When I came in, I took over a job and literally made it a completely different job. Even my boss noticed I was doing "two or three people worth of work."

A similar job at a different job came open and it paid significantly for money and it was less work. I told my boss about it and she told me she would submit paperwork to HR to get me a raise. What she didn't tell me is that HR controlled all the salaries and was known to deny pay raises. After 4 months of trying, HR came back and said "no" (this is another story). So to sum it up, I turned down a chance to make for money because of loyalty.

Seriously, only be loyal to an extent. Don't be an idiot like I was. Ask for the raise, if they deny it, start looking for another job. I'm not saying be a jerk about it, but start looking.

Good luck!

[cry_minarets458]

In my field, if I wanted raise of that kind, I'd have to further my education (which I will be doing in a few years) or change the market in which I work plus look for more incentives with that job. It's definitely possible to find money like that, but you may have to realize that it's not within your current role. Hopefully, it works out for you, but if I wanted a 33% raise at my job, I'd be told to GTFO. I'd be appreciative of a 33% raise over the course 10 years, but that's even unlikely in my field at my current role outside of what I've mentioned above. I work in healthcare as a provider.

[Ascf33]

Yeah just to echo what others have said, the only way you come out of that conversation with anything more than a 2-3% raise is with an offer from another company. Even then, they may not match and let you walk. The best time to get a raise is to change jobs.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by deadendstreet

This. Go in and state why you deserve a raise. Mention the emails and customer feedback. But don't be surprised if they shoot you down. Companies usually don't give large salary bumps, at least in my and my friends experiences. If they turn you down, start looking for another job. It sucks, but three years down the road, you will regret staying . Remember, every job offer after this one will be based on what you make currently. So you're screwing yourself out of $$$, by staying.

Regarding loving your job and getting along with the owners, here's a short story. I worked at a company for six years. When I came in, I took over a job and literally made it a completely different job. Even my boss noticed I was doing "two or three people worth of work."

A similar job at a different job came open and it paid significantly for money and it was less work. I told my boss about it and she told me she would submit paperwork to HR to get me a raise. What she didn't tell me is that HR controlled all the salaries and was known to deny pay raises. After 4 months of trying, HR came back and said "no" (this is another story). So to sum it up, I turned down a chance to make for money because of loyalty.

Seriously, only be loyal to an extent. Don't be an idiot like I was. Ask for the raise, if they deny it, start looking for another job. I'm not saying be a jerk about it, but start looking.

Good luck!

Exactly.

[AlexK79]

It sounds like you work for more of a "mom and pop" type company as opposed to a big corporate type deal, which can have it's advantages and disadvantages with stuff like this. Advantage being, if they want to give you a raise, they can probably do so without dealing with all the red tape/salary structures/pay scales/HR/yada yada yada that come along with stuff like this in a corporate environment. The bad part is if they're a small business who is working on a small budget and/or tight margins, they might not be able to afford to give you one.

That being said, there is absolutely no harm in asking. As long as you are professional, polite, and reasonable in your conversation, no one is going to get upset with you for asking. Literally the worst thing that can happen is they say no, and then you're just in the same position that you are now, but at least you have the knowledge that you're probably not going to be able to earn what you need to at this job and may want to start looking elsewhere.

It sounds like you have a good relationship with these folks. Ask for a few minutes of your boss's time, sit down, and explain your situation. Reiterate that you love working for them and really want to continue, and explain your current financial situation basically just as you did in your OP. Any reasonable person is going to totally understand your situation. Doesn't mean they'll necessarily give you the raise, but they'll certainly appreciate where you're coming from. Either they're going to say 'You know what, I totally agree, you're a real asset here and we want to make sure you can stick around, here's what we're able to offer...' or 'I totally understand your predicament and I really wish that we could, but we're just not in a position to be able to do any pay increases right now.'

Either way, then at least you know where you stand. Good luck!

[bbqguy1962]

It also doesn't hurt to be prepared to be creative in what you're asking for. What do you get for paid vacation? Ask for an increase in that. You said you turned down the health insurance, maybe ask them to enroll you in that and contribute to your premium. 45 minute commute, ask them to give you a vehicle allowance. There may be different ways they can do things for you that they can write off. At least that's how it works in Canuckistan. I always take the paid vacation option.

[Lee3691]

Also, and I am going to let some of the ants with a legal background provide more detail, even though you are salaried, your job should still be listed as "non exempt" because it is not a managerial role, so you should be paid for your excess hours after 40.

[M. Steng]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Also, and I am going to let some of the ants with a legal background provide more detail, even though you are salaried, your job should still be listed as "non exempt" because it is not a managerial role, so you should be paid for your excess hours after 40.

Generally speaking, this is correct.

[AlexK79]

Originally Posted by bbqguy1962

It also doesn't hurt to be prepared to be creative in what you're asking for. What do you get for paid vacation? Ask for an increase in that. You said you turned down the health insurance, maybe ask them to enroll you in that and contribute to your premium. 45 minute commute, ask them to give you a vehicle allowance. There may be different ways they can do things for you that they can write off. At least that's how it works in Canuckistan. I always take the paid vacation option.

This is a great point as well. Think of creative solutions that could help you but may be less costly for your boss.

I did this not long ago at my job. After getting laid off last summer, the new job I took in November pays me a salary that's approx $4000 a year less than my old job. My costs also went up because now I'm commuting into the city every day via public transportation, whereas my old job my office was 5 minutes from my house.

Given it's a large company, my boss isn't able to just straight give me a raise. So I went to him and asked if he minded if I started working at home 2x per week. Extrapolated over a year, that saves me $1,300 per year in train tickets, not to mention giving me back about 6-8 hours per week that I'd normally spend commuting. It costs the company absolutely nothing, makes me more productive, happier, and keeps some extra $$ in my pocket. Win/win all around. My boss was 100% cool with it, and now I'm only going in to the office 3x per week instead of 5.

Obviously, this particular solution is not an option for you given your line of work, but just an example of trying to find a creative solution to a problem that is easy for an employer to swallow since it doesn't cost them a dime.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Also, and I am going to let some of the ants with a legal background provide more detail, even though you are salaried, your job should still be listed as "non exempt" because it is not a managerial role, so you should be paid for your excess hours after 40.

Originally Posted by M. Steng

Generally speaking, this is correct.

You can be an individual contributor (non manager) and still be exempt. In fact, most are from my experience assuming you are salaried.

[AlpineValley804]

Great feedback from everybody. I definitely didn't make this clear in my OP, but I would have never seriously considered actually asking for a 33% raise. I was intending to look around 15% at my starting number (knowing I wouldn't get that), and hopefully meet somewhere that works for both me and my employer. But a lot of food for thought offered in this thread and I greatly appreciate everyone who has contributed thus far and helping me take a realistic and grounded look at my situation.

[Rodey]

Asking doesn't hurt, but I think you need to be prepared to get shot down. Asking for a 15% raise is a HUGE ask without any change in your responsibilities.

[bbqguy1962]

Originally Posted by AlpineValley804

Great feedback from everybody. I definitely didn't make this clear in my OP, but I would have never seriously considered actually asking for a 33% raise. I was intending to look around 15% at my starting number (knowing I wouldn't get that), and hopefully meet somewhere that works for both me and my employer. But a lot of food for thought offered in this thread and I greatly appreciate everyone who has contributed thus far and helping me take a realistic and grounded look at my situation.

Have you had any reviews/increases since you started?

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by AlpineValley804

Great feedback from everybody. I definitely didn't make this clear in my OP, but I would have never seriously considered actually asking for a 33% raise. I was intending to look around 15% at my starting number (knowing I wouldn't get that), and hopefully meet somewhere that works for both me and my employer. But a lot of food for thought offered in this thread and I greatly appreciate everyone who has contributed thus far and helping me take a realistic and grounded look at my situation.

Whatever number you ask for, make sure to write it on a piece of paper and slide it upside down across the desk to the other person, because that's just how it's done.

[AlpineValley804]

Originally Posted by bbqguy1962

Have you had any reviews/increases since you started?

We get annual raises. The first year was a small bump in weekly pay and the second was a bump on my commission. Definitely have noticed a bigger difference in pay on the commission bump, than the base salary.

[AlpineValley804]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Whatever number you ask for, make sure to write it on a piece of paper and slide it upside down across the desk to the other person, because that's just how it's done.