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Old 07-28-2020, 03:22 PM   #1
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Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

I was reading the r/DMB subreddit, and had no clue about the Hartford 2003 incident?

Apparently this is when Dave told the band he was gonna tour with D&F, they were pissed, and played 2 really short shows in Hartford.

Completely fascinated by this, are there any other instances of things like this? Or of the band being close to breaking up?

I know they were on thin ice in 2007, but someone else on Reddit mentioned something about 2000-2001 almost breaking up too, and I had no clue about that.

Any more insight into these stories?
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  • Old 07-28-2020, 04:08 PM   #2
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I think there's some truth to that.

    About the shows being short, shows under 2 hours were a lot more common in 2003. The shows at the Home Depot Center a month earlier were even shorter.
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    Old 07-28-2020, 04:11 PM   #3
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I remember hearing that before the Hartford shows that is when the rest of the band was told about the shows but didn't hear anything else. I had no idea the shows were shorter as a result.
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    Old 07-28-2020, 04:15 PM   #4
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DannoMac21 View Post
    I was reading the r/DMB subreddit, and had no clue about the Hartford 2003 incident?

    Apparently this is when Dave told the band he was gonna tour with D&F, they were pissed, and played 2 really short shows in Hartford.

    Completely fascinated by this, are there any other instances of things like this? Or of the band being close to breaking up?

    I know they were on thin ice in 2007, but someone else on Reddit mentioned something about 2000-2001 almost breaking up too, and I had no clue about that.

    Any more insight into these stories?
    Yeah, it's rightly speculated that had they finished the LWS in 2000 they would have broken up. From what I've heard they stopped playing SUAD that summer because Carter was getting pissed that it had no real lyrics, which is funny, because Raven didn't have real lyrics either and it stuck around longer.

    Regarding Hartford in 2003, I'd believe it.
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    Old 07-28-2020, 04:31 PM   #5
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I remember reading in a magazine back in the early 00’s, concerning Dave’s battle with depression and the tension within the band around 2000-2001. Kind of can’t believe I was able to Google up the exact article I was thinking of, but here it is:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...atthews-85267/
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    Old 07-28-2020, 05:36 PM   #6
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Thanks for that article, that was a really great read. I also was Googling this before, and landed on this Today article from 2009 where Dave talks about the band almost breaking up. https://www.today.com/popculture/dav...t-wbna30851617

    What was more fascinating to me, though, was how incredibly self aware Dave was with this response. I've never seen this before--

    How bad did things get within the DMB ranks?

    It actually came to a head a couple of years ago. We hadn’t put out an album for a while and the album that we did put out (2005’s Mark Batson-produced “Stand Up”) wasn’t us. I feel like it should have said “Dave Matthews Band featuring Mark Batson.” There’s some great songs on (2002’s Glen Ballard-produced) “Everyday,” but I think that should have said “Dave Matthews Band featuring Glen Ballard.” I think we started to get lost right around towards the end of making the third album, (1998’s) Before These Crowded Streets. The stuff after that, although there’s many good things about it, I think it was not our best work. For a while we’d been in a holding pattern as far as how we were playing with each other. And it did get to a point where I threw my hands up in the air and said “There’s no point to this.” I had a lot of conversations with Roi, a lot of conversations with Carter [Beauford, DMB drummer] about, “How the hell do we go on if we can’t all communicate?”
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    Old 07-28-2020, 08:38 PM   #7
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Well I can confirm Hartford was short and not impressive
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    Old 07-29-2020, 01:39 AM   #8
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubaguy1145 View Post
    I remember reading in a magazine back in the early 00’s, concerning Dave’s battle with depression and the tension within the band around 2000-2001. Kind of can’t believe I was able to Google up the exact article I was thinking of, but here it is:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...atthews-85267/

    This was an outstanding read!! So many fascinating insights. (I surely must have read this article back in the day when it first came out, but some of the details didn't stick with me at the time, I guess, because reading this tonight felt brand new in many of the sections.)

    I was especially captivated by the sections where Dave and the other band members talked about their perception of the Everyday sessions. Before tonight, I only remembered the band being reportedly upset about being treated like studio musicians, essentially, since Dave and Glen Ballard had fleshed out all the charts ahead of the band arriving in LA. But this article was so enlightening; the band seemed to really appreciate the discipline and focus of working with Ballard in the studio in that way. Makes me want to go back and listen to the Everyday album in full sometime this week, only now with new knowledge of how they all felt about that time and what it did for Dave's mental health and overall perspective. Thank you so much for finding this and sharing it!
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    Old 07-29-2020, 09:03 AM   #9
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I always remember stories of Roi telling Dave that he had to step up and lead. But if you think back to their early days, Dave as a bartender looked up to guys like Carter and LeRoi, so i'm sure that made it kind of difficult to communicate.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:01 PM   #10
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    So funny to go back and look at the short run-times for these shows. I was at the two Home Depot Center shows in LA. One was memorable because Roi got sick and left the show mid-set.

    I didn't remember it being short, but now they play almost 40 mins longer than those particular shows. Strange.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:17 PM   #11
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djamieb View Post
    This was an outstanding read!! So many fascinating insights. (I surely must have read this article back in the day when it first came out, but some of the details didn't stick with me at the time, I guess, because reading this tonight felt brand new in many of the sections.)

    I was especially captivated by the sections where Dave and the other band members talked about their perception of the Everyday sessions. Before tonight, I only remembered the band being reportedly upset about being treated like studio musicians, essentially, since Dave and Glen Ballard had fleshed out all the charts ahead of the band arriving in LA. But this article was so enlightening; the band seemed to really appreciate the discipline and focus of working with Ballard in the studio in that way. Makes me want to go back and listen to the Everyday album in full sometime this week, only now with new knowledge of how they all felt about that time and what it did for Dave's mental health and overall perspective. Thank you so much for finding this and sharing it!
    That article is so full of shit. The band hated the process for Everyday and have said as much as time has gone on.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:45 PM   #12
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    That article is so full of shit. The band hated the process for Everyday and have said as much as time has gone on.

    Yea. I remember watching this old video interview with the band back when Everyday was coming out and they were all saying something about how they felt “official” and that it was great having music to read off of a sheet. Didn’t Dave and Glen compose most of the musical sections on the album without the band’s involvement? It just seemed like they were all lying through their teeth just for the sake of album promotion.

    Maybe someone can find this interview. I remember thinking something about it just felt “off”.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:53 PM   #13
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheStone91 View Post
    Yea. I remember watching this old video interview with the band back when Everyday was coming out and they were all saying something about how they felt “official” and that it was great having music to read off of a sheet. Didn’t Dave and Glen compose most of the musical sections on the album without the band’s involvement? It just seemed like they were all lying through their teeth just for the sake of album promotion.

    Maybe someone can find this interview. I remember thinking something about it just felt “off”.
    60 minutes, about 11 minutes in

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-BYB06Hns
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:55 PM   #14
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheStone91 View Post
    Yea. I remember watching this old video interview with the band back when Everyday was coming out and they were all saying something about how they felt “official” and that it was great having music to read off of a sheet. Didn’t Dave and Glen compose most of the musical sections on the album without the band’s involvement? It just seemed like they were all lying through their teeth just for the sake of album promotion.

    Maybe someone can find this interview. I remember thinking something about it just felt “off”.
    this is every album since everyday. each one is their best work yet, they finally gelled in he studio, feels like the band is back, etc. then the next album rolls around and it's "well the last album just didn't feel right, but this new one we finally figured it out."
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    Old 07-29-2020, 12:59 PM   #15
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by firedancer34 View Post
    this is every album since everyday. each one is their best work yet, they finally gelled in he studio, feels like the band is back, etc. then the next album rolls around and it's "well the last album just didn't feel right, but this new one we finally figured it out."
    The only exception to this i think is Big Whiskey, unless I missed something I can't think of any time they talked negatively about it
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    Old 07-29-2020, 01:06 PM   #16
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zrroot View Post
    The only exception to this i think is Big Whiskey, unless I missed something I can't think of any time they talked negatively about it
    you're right. however i think they went back into the studio with cavallo after big whiskey much like they did with batson after stand up and ultimately abandoned it for the next album respectively. then of course those next albums, BW after SU and AFTW after BW, were their self proclaimed "return to form" once again.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 01:51 PM   #17
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tubaguy1145 View Post
    I remember reading in a magazine back in the early 00’s, concerning Dave’s battle with depression and the tension within the band around 2000-2001. Kind of can’t believe I was able to Google up the exact article I was thinking of, but here it is:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...atthews-85267/
    I love the first part of the article

    They are talking about 12/17/00. Daveheads who traveled up from Virginia who said there were no surprises. Seek up opener debuted, and blue water was played the 2nd time that month after not being seen for 7 years. Not to mention show time was normal for the tour, and his voice didn’t suffer either.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 01:57 PM   #18
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Didn’t Dave have the flu for that 12/17/00 show? I feel like I read that somewhere.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 02:15 PM   #19
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    Didn’t Dave have the flu for that 12/17/00 show? I feel like I read that somewhere.
    Yeah according to the Rolling Stone article

    http://dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSet.as...=14&where=2000
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    Old 07-29-2020, 02:29 PM   #20
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheStone91 View Post
    Yea. I remember watching this old video interview with the band back when Everyday was coming out and they were all saying something about how they felt “official” and that it was great having music to read off of a sheet. Didn’t Dave and Glen compose most of the musical sections on the album without the band’s involvement? It just seemed like they were all lying through their teeth just for the sake of album promotion.

    Maybe someone can find this interview. I remember thinking something about it just felt “off”.
    This was the Charlie Rose interview with the band. Carter and Fonz at least paid the same lip service as was in the article, but the expressions on their faces belied the words. The band was united in supporting Dave and keeping itself together.

    My biggest issues with ED and Stand up AFTER that lower quality of the songs (staggeringly lower on SU) is the producers obvious lack of a clue on how to incorporate the violin and sax into the songs. These vital instruments being relegated to textures was bullshit. Ballard was a rock and pop producer with no experience with improvising musicians. He (and Dave) clearly weren't open to the guys doing their thing coming up with parts and augmenting the arrangements. I don't blame the guys for being put out and actually appreciate their ability put up with this situation and stick it out.

    With Batson, EVERYTHING was a texture and more complex songs structures just aren't part of what he's done or was doing. From what I understand, despite the results, the band was at least behind the process and collaboration (for the most part). And this is something that you can see in the clips from the sessions. Everyone seemed to be actively involved, having fun, being asked/allowed to contribute, and any idea was valid and/or worth exploring. Again, the results were a huge disappointment, but it was a band+ project. But I digress...
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    Old 07-29-2020, 03:34 PM   #21
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I think there was something mentioned about this in the so much to say book as well, if I remember correctly. It wasn't from a band members point of view, though.
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    Old 07-29-2020, 06:28 PM   #22
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I actively wonder at times when, or if there will ever be some grand book for fans to read about this band. It's one of the biggest acts in modern music history, yet there has been very little written about them in the last 15 years or so.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 07:50 AM   #23
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    Yeah, it's rightly speculated that had they finished the LWS in 2000 they would have broken up. From what I've heard they stopped playing SUAD that summer because Carter was getting pissed that it had no real lyrics, which is funny, because Raven didn't have real lyrics either and it stuck around longer.

    Regarding Hartford in 2003, I'd believe it.
    I actually asked Stefan himself about Sweet Up & Down during the Winter '00 tour. I loved it during the summer, and asked him why it disappeared. He told me it was simply because the Band didn't feel like the audience was vibing with it. "It never got a real good reaction from the crowd", is what I believe he said in a nutshell.

    Could be he was just keeping the Band drama to himself. I don't know. But that's what he said.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 07:52 AM   #24
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    Didn’t Dave have the flu for that 12/17/00 show? I feel like I read that somewhere.
    He was also very sick during the Providence show the night before.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 07:52 AM   #25
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBlunts View Post
    I actively wonder at times when, or if there will ever be some grand book for fans to read about this band. It's one of the biggest acts in modern music history, yet there has been very little written about them in the last 15 years or so.
    It's only a matter of time before Boyd writes a tell-all.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 11:35 AM   #26
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey View Post
    I actually asked Stefan himself about Sweet Up & Down during the Winter '00 tour. I loved it during the summer, and asked him why it disappeared. He told me it was simply because the Band didn't feel like the audience was vibing with it. "It never got a real good reaction from the crowd", is what I believe he said in a nutshell.

    Could be he was just keeping the Band drama to himself. I don't know. But that's what he said.
    It's this, really.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 12:10 PM   #27
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey View Post
    It's only a matter of time before Boyd writes a tell-all.
    I would think it'll be fonz
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    Old 07-30-2020, 12:21 PM   #28
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I think Carter and Fonz would be the ones that would likely write the most objective and holistic account. I don't think Dave ever will share the story and it seems like any account from Boyd would be potentially skewed towards his personal experience.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 01:37 PM   #29
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheStone91 View Post
    Yea. I remember watching this old video interview with the band back when Everyday was coming out and they were all saying something about how they felt “official” and that it was great having music to read off of a sheet. Didn’t Dave and Glen compose most of the musical sections on the album without the band’s involvement? It just seemed like they were all lying through their teeth just for the sake of album promotion.

    Maybe someone can find this interview. I remember thinking something about it just felt “off”.
    Rose: "So what does Glen Ballard bring to the mix?"

    Boyd: "150 million records sold!"

    They were in full album promo mode, which they should be! But I think the later interviews where Dave reflects on this and Stand Up are way more trustworthy than this Charlie Rose interview which was strictly a promo piece.
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    Old 07-30-2020, 02:30 PM   #30
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    Re: Hartford 2003/D&F Announcement

    I remember hearing years ago that Carter didn't like SUAD too. Pretty sure I read that somewhere here
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