A Game of Thrones (HBO Series) - Page 587 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 05-23-2019, 04:33 PM   #17581
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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
If it's revealed Jon is a Targaryen, then he's seen as killing the queen just to take the throne. Being just Jon Snow still leaves him as the Queenslayer, but one who killed her to save the people of Westeros.
Well if he denied the throne after doing that, it wouldn’t be viewed that way, would it?
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  • Old 05-23-2019, 04:38 PM   #17582
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Didn't HBO want, if Seasons 7 & 8 were going to be the last, at least two full seasons' worth of episodes? Would've been nice, and probably cut down on the supposing, assuming and guessing we're all doing now.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #17583
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Jon didn't want the throne.

    The council that selected the new king wanted to change the way shit was done in Westeros.

    What is left to suppose, assume, or guess with respect to Jon not being king?
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #17584
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OK_Ant View Post
    Didn't HBO want, if Seasons 7 & 8 were going to be the last, at least two full seasons' worth of episodes? Would've been nice, and probably cut down on the supposing, assuming and guessing we're all doing now.
    D&D have stated that it was them who wanted the 2 truncated seasons. HBO had a blank check and unlimited time for them.

    There's a lot to be said for ending a series on time, as opposed to a season or 2 too long. This was way too short and abrupt.

    Mal and Jason made a great point in Binge Mode...in a span of just 2 episodes (in a 73 episode series), Dany is first being cheered by the Northman and winning them over, then becomes a murderous tyrant, and is then killed. That's insanely fast.

    It also takes any consequence away from her character. She doesn't have to face what she's done.

    In a normal season, she could have burned KL in E6, been killed in E8 or 9, and we'd see the aftermath in the finale. In between we could have seen the real consequences of her actions
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:50 PM   #17585
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mrignatious View Post
    Jon didn't want the throne.

    The council that selected the new king wanted to change the way shit was done in Westeros.

    What is left to suppose, assume, or guess with respect to Jon not being king?
    I guess some people really want him to be known as a Targaryen for some reason.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:51 PM   #17586
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Would've been better if she stabbed Jon while they were kissing, and then laughed all the way back to the Iron Throne.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:54 PM   #17587
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    I guess some people really want him to be known as a Targaryen for some reason.
    This really isn’t hard. I want to know if they knew when they weighed in on who would rule. The varys scenes implied he was letting the realm know with his scrolls he was writing. I don’t care if they actually knew or didn’t know, I just wanted clarity on if the message was relayed or it wasn’t.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 04:59 PM   #17588
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    This really isn’t hard. I want to know if they knew when they weighed in on who would rule. The varys scenes implied he was letting the realm know with his scrolls he was writing. I don’t care if they actually knew or didn’t know, I just wanted clarity on if the message was relayed or it wasn’t.
    I feel like it was pretty clear the message didn't get out. No one that didn't know before he killed Dany said anything about it. The five there that knew didn't say anything because they knew he didn't want it. I also believe they were protecting him by not saying who he truly is.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:05 PM   #17589
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    This really isn’t hard. I want to know if they knew when they weighed in on who would rule. The varys scenes implied he was letting the realm know with his scrolls he was writing. I don’t care if they actually knew or didn’t know, I just wanted clarity on if the message was relayed or it wasn’t.
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    I feel like it was pretty clear the message didn't get out. No one that didn't know before he killed Dany said anything about it. The five there that knew didn't say anything because they knew he didn't want it. I also believe they were protecting him by not saying who he truly is.
    I just never took it as relevant whether or not his message got out, that scene was showing us that he was going ahead with his (treasonous) plan to overthrow Dany. And then he got roasted.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:41 PM   #17590
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    D&D have stated that it was them who wanted the 2 truncated seasons. HBO had a blank check and unlimited time for them.

    There's a lot to be said for ending a series on time, as opposed to a season or 2 too long. This was way too short and abrupt.

    Mal and Jason made a great point in Binge Mode...in a span of just 2 episodes (in a 73 episode series), Dany is first being cheered by the Northman and winning them over, then becomes a murderous tyrant, and is then killed. That's insanely fast.

    It also takes any consequence away from her character. She doesn't have to face what she's done.

    In a normal season, she could have burned KL in E6, been killed in E8 or 9, and we'd see the aftermath in the finale. In between we could have seen the real consequences of her actions
    In a normal season she would have never attacked KL like she did. Maybe she would have gone a little too far during the siege but what happened was not plausible. A more suitable way to make her a villain would be to have her make the North/Sansa bend the knee and when they didn't that's when she goes crazy. The last season even played up a feud with Sansa and Dany already said the North didn't think much of her, they loved Jon.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:46 PM   #17591
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Originally Posted by mrignatious View Post
    I just never took it as relevant whether or not his message got out, that scene was showing us that he was going ahead with his (treasonous) plan to overthrow Dany. And then he got roasted.
    I mean, in the cannon of the show, literally every other time Varys had significant info, he used it to manipulate or disseminate it to people who could.

    As with basically every complaint I have about this season, just stems back to things not being fleshed out.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:50 PM   #17592
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    In a normal season she would have never attacked KL like she did. Maybe she would have gone a little too far during the siege but what happened was not plausible. A more suitable way to make her a villain would be to have her make the North/Sansa bend the knee and when they didn't that's when she goes crazy. The last season even played up a feud with Sansa and Dany already said the North didn't think much of her, they loved Jon.
    It may have been more impactful for us if she used the dragons on Winterfell, but I don't agree with you at all. She was ALWAYS going to attack KL. She was ALWAYS going to be Queen of the Ashes. It was just developed very, very poorly.

    Foreshadowing isn't character development
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:52 PM   #17593
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    She was ALWAYS going to be Queen of the Ashes.
    I disagree, she never attacked innocents. She always attacked the people who held power or did wrong. That is not the people at KL she roasted. She started off attacking soldiers. Then when she won, then she snaps? Her moment of triumph is when she attacks? I am not buying it and a lot of people didn't either.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 05:54 PM   #17594
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    I mean, in the cannon of the show, literally every other time Varys had significant info, he used it to manipulate or disseminate it to people who could.

    As with basically every complaint I have about this season, just stems back to things not being fleshed out.
    There's actually nothing to flesh out in this instance. Varys has been trying to poison Dany and is show writing a letter to someone. Varys gets burned alive. That's the end of Varys.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 06:29 PM   #17595
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Originally Posted by mrignatious View Post
    There's actually nothing to flesh out in this instance. Varys has been trying to poison Dany and is show writing a letter to someone. Varys gets burned alive. That's the end of Varys.
    If you ignore the earlier scene where he was writing scrolls we didn’t see him burn, then sure.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 06:32 PM   #17596
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    I disagree, she never attacked innocents. She always attacked the people who held power or did wrong. That is not the people at KL she roasted. She started off attacking soldiers. Then when she won, then she snaps? Her moment of triumph is when she attacks? I am not buying it and a lot of people didn't either.
    Are you saying you don’t agree with her going “mad” like Martin intended or you not buying it because of the story that was told to get you there?
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    Old 05-23-2019, 06:46 PM   #17597
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    Are you saying you don’t agree with her going “mad” like Martin intended or you not buying it because of the story that was told to get you there?
    I don't ever think she would have gone mad like she did. It's more about extent. If say Sansa and the North didn't bend the knee I could see her being heavy handed and having a falling out with Jon but never mad. It would take some episodes. Its dumb to think that she would go crazy on civilians after all she'd been through. They really could have got to the same place(Jon killing Dany) if they have played up tensions between dany and the north, dany and sansa and dany and jon. They built that up the whole time. The last episode showed Sansa declaring and getting independence for the North.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 06:56 PM   #17598
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    I disagree, she never attacked innocents. She always attacked the people who held power or did wrong. That is not the people at KL she roasted. She started off attacking soldiers. Then when she won, then she snaps? Her moment of triumph is when she attacks? I am not buying it and a lot of people didn't either.
    all of these complaints are character development. There's been more than enough foreshadowing to show that she could have gone either way at the very least, but more likely going mad. I always thought she'd break bad- you can't "break the wheel" by conquering a city with dragons
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    Old 05-23-2019, 08:25 PM   #17599
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    The Ringer's ranking of all the episodes. I don't disagree with much, without really getting into it too much.

    We talk a lot about the show going downhill after surpassing the books, but some of our favorite episodes- Winds of Winter, Hardhome, The Door, BoB...and I'd even make A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms a possible top 10- all happened after the show surpassed the books

    D&D were fully capable of writing and finishing this story correctly, and that makes it so much worse that they didnt
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    Old 05-23-2019, 08:35 PM   #17600
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    forgot to post think link https://thrones.theringer.com/?_ga=2...475.1542598121
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    Old 05-23-2019, 10:46 PM   #17601
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    all of these complaints are character development. There's been more than enough foreshadowing to show that she could have gone either way at the very least, but more likely going mad. I always thought she'd break bad- you can't "break the wheel" by conquering a city with dragons
    I just disagree on the way she went mad. She could have gone mad on Sansa and the North. That would have been a great plot line. I would done it this way.

    1. Sansa and the North refuse to bend the knee(happened anyway and now there are 6 kingdoms.

    2. Jon tries to temper Dany

    3. Mini-skirmishes with the North and threats

    4. Some kind of popular movement in the North that disrespects Dany

    5. Dany does something rash and starts a war with the North

    6. Jon tries to convince her to grant the North independence and Dany goes crazy

    7. Jon kills Dany

    It would have taken 3-5 episodes but it would have been good. I feel the series was heading this way but it took the easy way out and spent 10 minutes with Dany on her dragon roasting the city that did nothing to her and that she had just one.

    We could have gotten a normal series with the same ending without the rushed timeline and the stupid stunt of her going crazy. 9 or 10 episodes would have been great and we didn't need 45 minute battle scenes. Varys spend almost no time scheming. Cersei sent a bunch of people North to assassinate and all we saw was Bron and nobody died.

    The scenes between Dany and Jon while Dany was threatening Sansa and the North would have been great and filled with tension. We didn't even really get a "what the fuck was that all about" scene after Dany roasted the city.
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    Old 05-23-2019, 11:12 PM   #17602
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    D&D were fully capable of writing and finishing this story correctly, and that makes it so much worse that they didnt
    They pulled a reverse-GRRM on us.
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    Old 05-24-2019, 03:30 AM   #17603
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Don’t get me wrong, I really liked A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms a lot, but it’s nowhere near a top 10 episode of the show.
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    Old 05-24-2019, 06:02 AM   #17604
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

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    I just disagree on the way she went mad. She could have gone mad on Sansa and the North. That would have been a great plot line. I would done it this way.

    1. Sansa and the North refuse to bend the knee(happened anyway and now there are 6 kingdoms.

    2. Jon tries to temper Dany

    3. Mini-skirmishes with the North and threats

    4. Some kind of popular movement in the North that disrespects Dany

    5. Dany does something rash and starts a war with the North

    6. Jon tries to convince her to grant the North independence and Dany goes crazy

    7. Jon kills Dany

    It would have taken 3-5 episodes but it would have been good. I feel the series was heading this way but it took the easy way out and spent 10 minutes with Dany on her dragon roasting the city that did nothing to her and that she had just one.

    We could have gotten a normal series with the same ending without the rushed timeline and the stupid stunt of her going crazy. 9 or 10 episodes would have been great and we didn't need 45 minute battle scenes. Varys spend almost no time scheming. Cersei sent a bunch of people North to assassinate and all we saw was Bron and nobody died.

    The scenes between Dany and Jon while Dany was threatening Sansa and the North would have been great and filled with tension. We didn't even really get a "what the fuck was that all about" scene after Dany roasted the city.
    I think it would have been ridiculous if Dany never got to KL because she was kille din Winterfell. Nobody is disagreeing with you that it wasn't handled properly. But Dany dying because of a petty squabble over bending the knee when she hasn't even conquered anything yet doesn't sit right with me.

    It also doesn't turn it into a character-altering choice for Jon. Killing someone who is about to kill you is easy. The way Jon had to kill Dany was a much more diffuclt (and rushed) story
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    Don’t get me wrong, I really liked A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms a lot, but it’s nowhere near a top 10 episode of the show.
    maybe top 15. I think it encapsulates everything that we love about GoT...important men talking in elegant rooms, tension, brink of war, geopolitical squabbles, reunions
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    Old 05-24-2019, 06:46 AM   #17605
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    The Ringer's ranking of all the episodes. I don't disagree with much, without really getting into it too much.

    We talk a lot about the show going downhill after surpassing the books, but some of our favorite episodes- Winds of Winter, Hardhome, The Door, BoB...and I'd even make A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms a possible top 10- all happened after the show surpassed the books

    D&D were fully capable of writing and finishing this story correctly, and that makes it so much worse that they didnt
    winds of winter is frustrating. it's a top 5 episode, and while not based on the books directly, there are a lot of things that are based on implicit moments and foreshadowing from the books. the sept exploding could very reasonably happen in the books - that's not something you could say about much that happened in S7 or S8

    so D&D are able to extrapolate, and make quality episodes when they do. but once they start to also accelerate, it kinda loses track
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    Old 05-24-2019, 07:56 AM   #17606
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
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    winds of winter is frustrating. it's a top 5 episode, and while not based on the books directly, there are a lot of things that are based on implicit moments and foreshadowing from the books. the sept exploding could very reasonably happen in the books - that's not something you could say about much that happened in S7 or S8

    so D&D are able to extrapolate, and make quality episodes when they do. but once they start to also accelerate, it kinda loses track
    There are a lot of episodes that show that DD could have done right by the series. I'm not sure why they wanted to condense everything
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    Old 05-24-2019, 08:00 AM   #17607
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    There are a lot of episodes that show that DD could have done right by the series. I'm not sure why they wanted to condense everything
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    Old 05-24-2019, 08:33 AM   #17608
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    I kinda low-key hate this list because it reminds me of just how good this show was at one point.
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    Old 05-24-2019, 08:41 AM   #17609
    Erich
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    The best episode of S8 is this thread. Intrigue, divisiveness, persuasion, tension, good dialogue... hell, the ash vs snow debate was better than the throne reveal. That was more like the lord of the flies episode of the simpsons. "And they were all ruled by... um... Bran".
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    Old 05-24-2019, 09:30 AM   #17610
    smokew11
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    Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    Star Warzzzzzzz
    I don't buy it. I don't think anyone would rush through something like this just to get to the next project. Nobody wants their legacy to be this
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