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Old 03-15-2021, 04:52 PM   #31
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Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
So did we ever find out how this leaked? I’ve heard something about Stefan and a ski house, but he denied that. I’ve always thought it was Lillywhite himself.
According to the man who passed it along to me, he received it in the mail from someone who either wished to remain anonymous and didn’t reveal their identities, or someone whose identity he protected by not ever mentioning their name. He sent an email to Steve Lillywhite asking for his “blessing” to circulate the music, but made the mistake of also posting the email he sent to one of the most popular DMB Message boards at the time prior to receiving his reply. He was phished, essentially, when someone saw his post and got the idea to make a screen name similar enough in appearance (S1illywhite@aol.com rather than Slillywhite@aol.com or something close to this) along with a convincing enough “reply” saying that he wanted ‘nothing more’ than for people to hear this music...
Mistakes were made but I have to believe the man who passed it along to me only was trying to do the right thing, but got caught up in the midst of a fervent desire from the DMB community to hear these recordings which were being hoarded by those who either had connections with members of DMB or were within a circle of people who trusted them not to share it. It was a big deal at the time and it felt like a victory for the community when we “freed” the music, but that was a selfish perspective. I have regrets about participating in the leak to this day. But I will admit, at the time, I loved the attention (being very young) and perhaps shaped an unhealthy internet persona within this community around it.
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  • Old 03-15-2021, 05:11 PM   #32
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by swordo84 View Post
    This is super dumb. It's the 2nd best thing the band has ever done (just behind Listener Supported).
    Ah, the someone views artistic rights and intellectual property differently than me so call it "super dumb" approach of the small minded bigot. How great it may or may not be is less relevant to me than the fact that it's creators didn't want it out there.
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    Old 03-15-2021, 05:55 PM   #33
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34 View Post
    Kind of going off Crash's point tLWS if it was finished would be DMB's #1 album for me
    I view LWS & BS as the same project and it is/they are my favorite DMB project. It's awesome to have multiple studio versions of songs that I so enjoy.
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    Old 03-15-2021, 06:00 PM   #34
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    I view LWS & BS as the same project and it is/they are my favorite DMB project. It's awesome to have multiple studio versions of songs that I so enjoy.
    BS is the watered down version of LWS. Yes, it's finished but it's a shell of the raw emotion on LWS with a couple extra tracks thrown in and some good ones removed... Not similar IMO. It sounds rushed and forced. Like let's wash our hands of this and move on.
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    Old 03-15-2021, 06:01 PM   #35
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    Dial up, I was 29, 1st gen iMac our apartment at Avalon on Cameron Run.

    Really loved it all, but JTR and SU&D were the tunes that most grabbed w/ the former still being one of my favorite DMB tunes. LWS JTR is still the best version of the song for me.
    I think Folsom has it by a smidge...
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    Old 03-15-2021, 07:00 PM   #36
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    I was an active member on Nancies.org when this came out, junior year of college.

    In hindsight, I feel terrible that it came out and everyone got access to it. I hate the "music should be free" mindset. But at the time, I had a girlfriend that was suicidal and it felt like it was made for me to hear this album to get through it. Big Eyed Fish, GIG, Digging a Ditch, Captain, and Grey Street pretty much summarized it all. Also parts of Monkey Man. When Dave sang, "Take a walk across the ice, it melts too quickly for us to reach the other side. It's cold in here... but the shines bright" I just listened to that over and over and over.

    It's weird for me to listen back to now, like someone else's life. Big Eyed Fish is still a hair raiser for me. They really killed that song.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 10:58 AM   #37
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dannyyankou View Post
    So did we ever find out how this leaked? I’ve heard something about Stefan and a ski house, but he denied that. I’ve always thought it was Lillywhite himself.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dodo36 View Post
    Does anyone recall the DMBML write up someone did on it (Jake maybe?)?

    https://www.antsmarching.org/columns...hp?columnid=39
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    Old 03-16-2021, 01:34 PM   #38
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey View Post
    I was meaning the little write up preview before the sessions were scrapped. Someone was allowed to listen to what they had so far, and wrote up a tiny review of each. I remember not having heard the songs yet, so we were all in devour every scrap of infow we could mode.

    I remember Monkey Man was called Golden Monkey then, and that Dave 'crooned' on one song (likely Captain). Big Eyed Fish didn't have that exact title yet, might have been One Eyed Fish. Grace Is Gone was confirmed as Boyd's country tune. Fairly certain #40 was mentioned as part of it. SUAD was called a funk song. I have only the vaguest memory of reading it 20 years ago. I want to say it was DMBML, but it might have been on Nancies.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 01:36 PM   #39
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dodo36 View Post
    I was meaning the little write up preview before the sessions were scrapped. Someone was allowed to listen to what they had so far, and wrote up a tiny review of each.

    I remember Monkey Man was called Golden Monkey then, and that Dave 'crooned' on one song (likely Captain). Big Eyed Fish didn't have that exact title yet, might have been One Eyed Fish. Grace Is Gone was confirmed as Boyd's country tune. Fairly certain #40 was mentioned as part of it. SUAD was called a funk song. I have only the vaguest memory of reading it 20 years ago. I want to say it was DMBML, but it might have been on Nancies.
    See the notes link at the bottom of the article and you'll find that description.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 01:47 PM   #40
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by DrewWileyWSP View Post
    See the notes link at the bottom of the article and you'll find that description.
    Well, sure, if you count reading the WHOLE thing...
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    Old 03-16-2021, 04:43 PM   #41
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    For me, tLWS is my favorite DMB album. The emotion, the rawness of the songs, the inclusion of JTR (a top 10 song that is SEVERELY UNDERPLAYED) and SUAD.

    I remember being in college and listening to Everyday when a friend brought me a copy of tLWS -- these songs blew the Everyday songs out of the water.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 06:13 PM   #42
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    I was in my senior year of high school when the Lillywhite Sessions came out and it was a time when I was in a full-on DMB hardcore fan zone. I tried to consume any and everything Dave Matthews Band. Hearing about a scrapped album of songs that were slowly being released online and making its way onto the message boards was something I couldn't believe and had to hear.

    For those younger fans on here, the internet was a very different place in 2001 and it wasn't as easy to search, find, and download songs or anything for that matter. The days of trading consisted mainly of B and P trades and Napster and Kazaa were just being introduced to the internet world. If an album of DMB songs leaked today, I believe it wouldn't have the same response as the Lillywhite Sessions had when they leaked due to the way we consume media now, it sounds weird but I felt like Ralphie from Christmas Story decoding little orphan Annies secret message when I was downloading these songs. The anticipation of these songs was something I don't think I've felt since.

    The Lillywhite Sessions leak was a perfect storm of the peak of a band and the birth of the internet combining into one crazy pandora's box.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 08:49 PM   #43
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    I was actually late to tLWS game. When LWS dropped, I wasn't into the band yet. My first show was in 2002 (shoutout 8.6.02 Polaris Ampitheater Columbus OH) right after Busted Stuff was released. So I grew up listening more to Busted Stuff. I had obviously heard of the leaked LWS, but I don't know, I wasn't overly enamored with it. I listened to it and thought "it's just a less finished busted stuff. Busted stuff sounds better." Boy was I wrong....

    Fast forward to about 2012 when I was in law school, I randomly decided to listen to LWS straight through while studying, and my God....it's like a lightbulb went off in my head. I couldn't believe it took me so long to appreciate tLWS. Diggin' a Ditch, JTR, Big Eyed Fish, Grace is Gone, Captain, and Bartender caught my ear immediately and are still some of my favorite tracks. I do like Busted Stuff, but really only prefer Busted Stuff and Grey Street from that album. Otherwise, LWS reigns supreme. Bartender outro is unbelievable. Captain /BEF are so haunting. Grace is Gone a little more subtle, but so great. LeRoi is so much better on tLWS. No idea why they cut so many of his licks on Busted Stuff album. The biggest difference for me is just Dave's vibe. You can tell he's in a dark place listening to tLWS. It's kinda sad, but also it made the art so freaking great.

    It's right up there for me with Crash as my 2nd favorite studio work from the band (BTCS #1 for me)
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    Old 03-16-2021, 09:42 PM   #44
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kmb40oz View Post
    I was in my senior year of high school when the Lillywhite Sessions came out and it was a time when I was in a full-on DMB hardcore fan zone. I tried to consume any and everything Dave Matthews Band. Hearing about a scrapped album of songs that were slowly being released online and making its way onto the message boards was something I couldn't believe and had to hear.

    For those younger fans on here, the internet was a very different place in 2001 and it wasn't as easy to search, find, and download songs or anything for that matter. The days of trading consisted mainly of B and P trades and Napster and Kazaa were just being introduced to the internet world. If an album of DMB songs leaked today, I believe it wouldn't have the same response as the Lillywhite Sessions had when they leaked due to the way we consume media now, it sounds weird but I felt like Ralphie from Christmas Story decoding little orphan Annies secret message when I was downloading these songs. The anticipation of these songs was something I don't think I've felt since.

    The Lillywhite Sessions leak was a perfect storm of the peak of a band and the birth of the internet combining into one crazy pandora's box.
    This perfectly summarizes my introduction to the lillywhite sessions. I was a freshman in college and devoured anything the band put out (I remember the lead up to BTCS and having my step mom record their Live at the Ten Spot performance on VHS when I was out camping when it aired). I fell in love with those tracks and listened to those on a burnt cd on my sony walkman that whole rest of the year. Some of my favorite memories were that summer staying upate and listening to Monkey Man and Captain (my all time fave DMB tune is Raven which on there too). I always remember thinking that SUAD and Grey street would both be huge hits for the band, so crazy to me that SUAD still hasn't been officially released on an album.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 09:56 PM   #45
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrewWileyWSP View Post
    According to the man who passed it along to me, he received it in the mail from someone who either wished to remain anonymous and didn’t reveal their identities, or someone whose identity he protected by not ever mentioning their name. He sent an email to Steve Lillywhite asking for his “blessing” to circulate the music, but made the mistake of also posting the email he sent to one of the most popular DMB Message boards at the time prior to receiving his reply. He was phished, essentially, when someone saw his post and got the idea to make a screen name similar enough in appearance (S1illywhite@aol.com rather than Slillywhite@aol.com or something close to this) along with a convincing enough “reply” saying that he wanted ‘nothing more’ than for people to hear this music...
    Mistakes were made but I have to believe the man who passed it along to me only was trying to do the right thing, but got caught up in the midst of a fervent desire from the DMB community to hear these recordings which were being hoarded by those who either had connections with members of DMB or were within a circle of people who trusted them not to share it. It was a big deal at the time and it felt like a victory for the community when we “freed” the music, but that was a selfish perspective. I have regrets about participating in the leak to this day. But I will admit, at the time, I loved the attention (being very young) and perhaps shaped an unhealthy internet persona within this community around it.
    I also received a copy in the mail from, in a roundabout way, the same person. It's my understanding that I (we?) had it a few days before it broke the internet. If so, cool! If not, it's still a cool story, truth be damned.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 09:57 PM   #46
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by ranimal21 View Post
    This perfectly summarizes my introduction to the lillywhite sessions. I was a freshman in college and devoured anything the band put out (I remember the lead up to BTCS and having my step mom record their Live at the Ten Spot performance on VHS when I was out camping when it aired). I fell in love with those tracks and listened to those on a burnt cd on my sony walkman that whole rest of the year. Some of my favorite memories were that summer staying upate and listening to Monkey Man and Captain (my all time fave DMB tune is Raven which on there too). I always remember thinking that SUAD and Grey street would both be huge hits for the band, so crazy to me that SUAD still hasn't been officially released on an album.
    That show was AMAZING.
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    Old 03-16-2021, 10:56 PM   #47
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    I was was still high on winning an early release of Everyday from a radio show (!) the previous spring and playing that every damn day on my Sony Discman, featuring the latest in anti-shock and bass boost technology, when a friend handed me a burned copy in health class in 9th grade.

    I was utterly obsessed with JTR and Bartender right off the bat, then BEF and Captain became my unhealthy focus. From there it was Monkey Man or bust. Those still remain some of my favorite songs of all time, of any artist. The laugh at the beginning of Busted Stuff, Carter's syncopated count-off to start SUAD, and those first few notes of Raven take me to a profoundly nostalgic place. As does Grace, which still wrecks me every time I hear it. And the aforementioned BEF, particularly the outro. And the Ditch riff, which remains my go-to involuntary finger exercise every time I pick up a guitar ~20 years later.

    Goddam, why did you make this thread. I'm a weepy POS now.
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    Last edited by CapnHani06; 03-16-2021 at 10:58 PM.
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    Old 03-17-2021, 12:29 AM   #48
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HonestDenver1 View Post
    BS is the watered down version of LWS. Yes, it's finished but it's a shell of the raw emotion on LWS with a couple extra tracks thrown in and some good ones removed... Not similar IMO. It sounds rushed and forced. Like let's wash our hands of this and move on.
    Agreed, well said.
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    Old 03-17-2021, 01:02 AM   #49
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    For Busted Stuff, getting rid of all Roi's extra fills throughout the song and the crescendo with Dave that built a little more each chorus for the last two choruses on tLWS BEF is one of the dumbest and most confounding musical decisions the band has ever made.

    tLws BEF is legitimately perfect music to me.
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    Old 11-28-2022, 02:52 AM   #50
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    How Monkey Man (AND JTR for that matter) didn't make Busted Stuff is worlds beyond me. Would have easily been two of my top tracks on the album, and BS is in my top 2 DMB albums...
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    Old 11-28-2022, 03:00 AM   #51
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by snake911 View Post
    20 years later, and I still have not listened to The Lillywhite Sessions. Will probably do it someday, but at this point I feel like someone who has never seen Star Wars and I want to keep the streak alive.
    Wow, you're missing out my friend!
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    Old 11-29-2022, 10:23 AM   #52
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    How Monkey Man (AND JTR for that matter) didn't make Busted Stuff is worlds beyond me. Would have easily been two of my top tracks on the album, and BS is in my top 2 DMB albums...
    JTR is a true shame. Once Dave brought it back to the band and they took it to heights that Santana just couldn't. Easily one of the band's top songs period.

    Monkey Man, on the other hand, was just an unfinished mess. There were good ideas that need to be fleshed out, but the version circulating only gets the love because it's a what might have been that we know of. I'd prefer to hear Spotlight come back... and I whole-heartedly agree with Dave that it's a turd.
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    Old 11-29-2022, 11:34 AM   #53
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Unfinished mess? Monkey Man is one of the most complete sounding songs on the Lillywhite Sessions

    People love the song because it’s an awesome song, musically and lyrically.
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    Old 11-29-2022, 11:35 AM   #54
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    I hope one day they release Steve Harris’ versions of Monkey Man, Sweet Up and Down and JTR for a Busted Stuff remaster/anniversary
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    Old 11-29-2022, 12:56 PM   #55
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Unfinished mess? Monkey Man is one of the most complete sounding songs on the Lillywhite Sessions

    People love the song because it’s an awesome song, musically and lyrically.
    How is a song absent of any contributions from Boyd one of the most complete sounding songs?

    Pretty much every other song aside from MM, KKJ, and Raven sound more complete.
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    Old 11-29-2022, 01:58 PM   #56
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    I hope one day they release Steve Harris’ versions of Monkey Man, Sweet Up and Down and JTR for a Busted Stuff remaster/anniversary
    What a dream come true this would be!
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    Old 11-29-2022, 02:13 PM   #57
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    I hope one day they release Steve Harris’ versions of Monkey Man, Sweet Up and Down and JTR for a Busted Stuff remaster/anniversary
    I know they did scratch tracks for JTR and Sweet Up and Down with Harris. Did they do Monkey Man?
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    Old 11-29-2022, 02:27 PM   #58
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman View Post
    Unfinished mess? Monkey Man is one of the most complete sounding songs on the Lillywhite Sessions

    People love the song because it’s an awesome song, musically and lyrically.
    It's a lilting, meandering, directionless arrangement with rough draft lyrics. The circulating version was lacking a core band member and had no mixing to speak of done to it, but if you hear completeness... Musically, nearly every other track else is more polished as far as the arrangement and prelim mixing.

    People like the song because of the potential it had once it was finished, but that never happened. We have a rough demo that never went anywhere.
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    Old 11-29-2022, 03:41 PM   #59
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

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    Originally Posted by RainDog1980 View Post
    In hindsight, I feel terrible that it came out and everyone got access to it. I hate the "music should be free" mindset.
    Man, I couldn't disagree more. Scrapping this album was the biggest mistake the band ever made and nothing they've done since has come close to making up for it. I'm glad as hell that people took it upon themselves to do what the band was unwilling to do.

    Remember, the Everyday decision had already been made and sold, so I don't buy the argument that had the sessions not leaked the band would have gone on a different trajectory. No, I think if they hadn't been leaked we would never have heard these songs in the studio, BS or otherwise.
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    Old 11-29-2022, 04:09 PM   #60
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    Re: The Lillywhite Sessions - 20 Years Later

    If you haven’t listened to Norlander’s interviews with Steve Harris and Steve Lillywhite about tLWS and Busted Stuff, GO LISTEN TO THEM NOW. They are incredible and really unearth a lot of mysteries as to why tLWS failed that nobody knew about before.

    If I remember correctly, I’m not sure if they even recorded JTR or Monkey Man during the Busted Stuff sessions — and if they did, they were abandoned pretty quickly because the band wasn’t feeling either of those songs at that time.
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