Lillywhite's tweet

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by dmbnut21

Yeah, I mean if anyone should be mad at his post it should be Jeff. I didn't realize half you thought this was an album review rating. It was a commentary that with the other 2 original band members that made this band what it was it will always be a little lacking. He isn't wrong. (Sorry Jeff - you still the man).

Yeah, I don't think it's intended to be a slight at Jeff at all either. It's the same as any band who's lost a key member (or 2).

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by dmbnut21

This is accurate. It also perpetuates what Steve is saying. It isn't a bad album but where the hell was "DMB" there was no strong sax on most of the album and the violin was removed almost completely. It's not a bad album but it is nothing like what DMB was.

Say what you want about AFTW but it sounded like DMB.

I dont like AFTW because most of the songs are just poor quality but after sitting on CT for 6+ months AFTW has got a clear head above it to me. CT has bits of dmb in there, but its mostly a bland as fuck adult contemporary album.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

Why are you so bitter about this tweet? He is just stating what most of us already know to be true. He even said in a response he waited til now because he wanted to let it to soak in. He is just commenting on the state of the band and how they came across on that album.

Not really bitter at all, I just don't completely agree with his perspective

[CrazyEasy354]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

I dont like AFTW because most of the songs are just poor quality but after sitting on CT for 6+ months AFTW has got a clear head above it to me. CT has bits of dmb in there, but its mostly a bland as fuck adult contemporary album.

As much as it pains me to say, this is spot on. Objectively, that's exactly what it is. My love for the band just blinds me from seeing that truth from time to time. AFTW is much better.

Although some would say all DMB is bland af adult contemporary

[Dave&Tim41]

Originally Posted by DMBCardinal

Does he not know why Boyd was left off the album?

I think we can all agree that Lillywhite is kind of an asshole, whether he is right or not.

This is how I feel, honestly. Yeah, he's right, but he's a total asshole.

[currupt3d**]

DmB #FAM bragging on Lillywhite's opinion is embarrassing. "They've EvOlVeD!!!!111".

[CrazyEasy354]

Pardon my ignorance, or for being uninformed, but what has Lillywhite done that some fans have a negative opinion about his personality? Genuinely curious.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by CrazyEasy354

Pardon my ignorance, or for being uninformed, but what has Lillywhite done that some fans have a negative opinion about his personality? Genuinely curious.

He's been critical of DMB. Tough to take for some. Especially for work he wasn't involved with.

[dmbnut21]

I don't find Steve to be an asshole. I think he is blunt and honest and that may offend some people. He is also English and so sometimes they way they present things is different than we would in the US> The guy says exactly how he feels about things and doesn't seem to hold back. More people probably should be this way.

Personally, I think the guy is a genius at his profession and knows music better than 99.9% of the population. All he is saying is what he sees. Not sure why everyone is mad at him for that, I'm glad he shared his opinion.

[TheLastPig]

yeah ive never taken steve for an asshole. maybe a little bit of a uptight brit but thats about it

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by drop2d

He's been critical of DMB. Tough to take for some. Especially for work he wasn't involved with.

He was incredibly critical of DMB during the big three era which helped make them great

[bigeyedpigs]

I completely agree with what he said. I've listened to ct twice. The only song on there that feels like dmb is ioy. Roi and Boyd were responsible for the distinct sounds that made dmb great, now jeff is hardly used and there is no violin.

[CrazyEasy354]

I heard him on a radio show once discussing the making of BTCS at length and he seemed like someone who really cares about the product he puts out. Maybe that results in him being overly-critical at times, but that comes with the territory. He has the right to be, by all means.

On the subject of being critical of DMB work that he did not produce, aren't we all?

[dmbnut21]

Originally Posted by drop2d

Yeah, I don't think it's intended to be a slight at Jeff at all either. It's the same as any band who's lost a key member (or 2).

It totally is not. I don't think Steve was calling out anyone. He simply was saying that the album isn't as good because it is missing the foundation of what a DMB album use to be - tons of horns and violin.

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

I dont like AFTW because most of the songs are just poor quality but after sitting on CT for 6+ months AFTW has got a clear head above it to me. CT has bits of dmb in there, but its mostly a bland as fuck adult contemporary album.

This is pretty accurate. I don't mind CT but it sort of is just a bland adult contemporary alubm. I'd rather hear AFTW songs. At least there Dave was trying to say something interesting and I think the music ways put down better.

Originally Posted by drop2d

He's been critical of DMB. Tough to take for some. Especially for work he wasn't involved with.

Yes, he has. His criticism though has been across the board and to me it has never appeared vindictive (except for TLW which is it's own deal). Everything else he has said has just been about his own feelings. Things like not enjoying the way a song came out that someone else messed with or having a hard time getting a good take. He has also stated his own mistakes pretty openly. To me, if you are honest with yourself about your own work there is nothing wrong with also stating your issues elsewhere. If he sat around telling you all of his work was flawless and everyone else was trash then I would dislike him.

[hkhund07]

Originally Posted by Maggard103

He followed up with a some interesting replies:
"Roi was a unique musician, and Boyd is a unique person who needs to be treated correctly in the studio." (https://twitter.com/Sillywhite/statu...73261577134080)
"i have high standards and DMB in 1994 surpassed those standards" (https://twitter.com/Sillywhite/statu...90460924690433)
*In reference to Boyd* "i knew how to get the best out of him. He is hardly on any albums i didn't produce." (https://twitter.com/Sillywhite/statu...91010609217537)

in response to someone who said "god forbid the band evolve".. Steve responded "evolve to become less unique?"
https://twitter.com/Sillywhite/statu...61255507767296

[ExistenceNow]

[grilldanmo]

It's just one person's very subjective opinion. It's not the same band anymore and the last attempt they made at working together apparently didn't sit well with Dave. I love the album, despite the band sounding hugely different than it did in the past.

As I tweeted in response, Roi was a huge part of the what made the band great while Boyd was one part of what made them unique. The difference there is tremendous. I guess AFtW could only be 4/5 as a DMB album be at best. It seems an unnecessary and pointless tweet, all but closing the door on the band and Steve ever working together again.

[ToySoldier#34]

The band has pretty much constantly evolved / changed since the beginning, losing Roi sucked

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by hkhund07

in response to someone who said "god forbid the band evolve".. Steve responded "evolve to become less unique?"
https://twitter.com/Sillywhite/statu...61255507767296

Being unique doesn't mean something is good, just as being more conventional doesn't mean something is band.

Dave's still got one of the most unique voices in music. Even in writing more "conventional" sounding tunes, his harmonic and melodic sensibilities stand out in the sea of modern musical sameness.

Steve made arguably the best contributions to this band, but he's not the only person with whom they have recorded great music.

[BruceW]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

The band has pretty much constantly evolved / changed since the beginning, losing Roi sucked

Yes, but one could argue that since the passing of Roi they have not evolved in a positive direction until the addition of Buddy this year. Jeff has been great, but I wouldn’t say that the overall product DMB has put out throughout those evolutions has been positively unique.

[excitingjae]

Do we know if Lillywhite has heard the Batson Sessions leak? I'd assume he may have heard some stuff as part of the lead up to recording AFTW but then again none of the Batson Sessions songs/riffs made their way on to AFTW.

If he has heard them has he made a comment?

[Dave&Tim41]

Originally Posted by drop2d

He's been critical of DMB. Tough to take for some. Especially for work he wasn't involved with.

I think it has more to do with the way he talks/writes. I specifically remember a very ill-timed joke about Robin Williams the day he was found dead. I'm very critical of DMB and agree with pretty much everything Lillywhite said. But I think he's an asshole.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

The band has pretty much constantly evolved / changed since the beginning, losing Roi sucked

It is the single worst thing that ever happened to this band. Among the worst of the sadly growing list of musical tragedies of the last 15 or so years. At least it was a freak accident and not another amazing talent throwing it all away (even if unintentionally).

I'd rather Steve had just reflected on his history working with the band rather than comment on the new album. It rings poorly in my ears. He had to know it wasn't going to go over well with a large amount of fans, making it seem more petty and catty than he likely ever intended.

[TheLastPig]

100% spot on with the evolve to become less unique comment.

[jaymas9]

Originally Posted by BruceW

If they had utilized any sort of dynamics or unique qualities on CT, then I’d argue with him. However, they neutered one of the best sax players on the planet and opted for more straight-forward “dad rock” instead.

AFTW was produced very well, but it’s a bland collection of songs. Can’t blame Steve too much for Dave’s songwriting. It’s one of the few albums I’d rather listen to the studio cuts than live versions.

Love this take. They also don't seem to know their own uniqueness when they cut songs like Bismarck for far inferior tunes.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

It is the single worst thing that ever happened to this band. Among the worst of the sadly growing list of musical tragedies of the last 15 or so years. At least it was a freak accident and not another amazing talent throwing it all away (even if unintentionally).

I'd rather Steve had just reflected on his history working with the band rather than comment on the new album. It rings poorly in my ears. He had to know it wasn't going to go over well with a large amount of fans, making it seem more petty and catty than he likely ever intended.

ehh the comments on it are pretty split honestly.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by excitingjae

Do we know if Lillywhite has heard the Batson Sessions leak? I'd assume he may have heard some stuff as part of the lead up to recording AFTW but then again none of the Batson Sessions songs/riffs made their way on to AFTW.

If he has heard them has he made a comment?

I remember there was an interview with David, maybe the one done online with Rodrigo where they were going to go into the the studio and work on some of the backlog of material with Steve. Dave said Steve called and suggested they write/work up new material instead. It was not clarified whether Steve was given access to or listened to the backlog stuff. So we don't know if this was a reactive request or just a preference to start from scratch without having heard any of the old(er) ideas...

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by BruceW

Yes, but one could argue that since the passing of Roi they have not evolved in a positive direction until the addition of Buddy this year. Jeff has been great, but I wouldn’t say that the overall product DMB has put out throughout those evolutions has been positively unique.

They definitely didn't go in a positive direction for a while after he passed, a lot of it doesn't have anything to do with Roi though. A crunchy blazing electric guitar, tempo way too fast, no dynamics, Dave's writing fell off a cliff (but IMO is coming around finally), there were a lot of factors.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by TheLastPig

ehh the comments on it are pretty split honestly.

Yeah, and 50% of the fan-base is a large amount.

I get that a lot of folks think the new album is garbage, and that's fine. I disagree and don't think this tweet engenders anything positive. He's got every right to his opinion though.

[dmbnut21]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

It's just one person's very subjective opinion. It's not the same band anymore and the last attempt they made at working together apparently didn't sit well with Dave...

I know Dave came out and said he wasn't happy with the full finished product because he said he didn't stop when he felt it was finished and he regretted that. That being said, I don't think anyone has ever figured out the root cause of that. Was it Steve or Bruce Flohr or another source? As I recall Steve came out and said something about there being other people involved which lead to those decisions. I don't know if Dave's issue with AFTW had anything at all to do with Steve or how he produced it.

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

They definitely didn't go in a positive direction for a while after he passed, a lot of it doesn't have anything to do with Roi though. A crunchy blazing electric guitar, tempo way too fast, no dynamics, Dave's writing fell off a cliff (but IMO is coming around finally), there were a lot of factors.

I think a lot more of this has to do with Roi than people think. Everyone always talks about how he was the one who really helped piece the music together. He was the orchestrator behind the scenes and his passing left a huge gap. I know Rashawn has stepped in and does a decent amount of it now but Roi had a real gift and knew the band best.