Mad Men

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

I loved this season, but didn't like the finale. Nothing really hit for me.

My one complaint is that I feel like we've hit some of these notes before, particularly with the state of the agency itself.

Season 2 — SC sold to PPL
Season 3 — SC sold to McCann, SCDP formed
Season 6 — SCDP merges with CGC to form SC&P
Season 7 — SC&P sells to McCann

Sometimes — and I think this is a good example — Weiner may sacrifice being realistic over telling a good story too much. It's probably not out of the realm of possibility that an agency would slosh around so much during such a turbulent decade, but as a loyal and devoted viewer, I'm a little fatigued on stories about the top-level business of the agency.

That said, Harry Hamlin played a good villain and I liked his "well, it is a lot of money" turn at the end of the scene in Roger's office.

Originally Posted by Lee3691

The most interesting part is that he ended up marrying a successful person in his agency (ala Peggy Olson).

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Ma...ticle=0#artanc

I hope Mad Men goes in a different direction. I'm strongly against a Don-Peggy relationship unless the back half of this season is strongly devoted to convincing me their relationship is anything other than a platonic father/daughter, mentor/student, boss/employee -type thing.

[Lee3691]

It might not be out of the window, but what is the likelihood that Don Draper is alive at the end of the show?

[laura22]

what i find pretty cool is how at the end of the episode, don/peggy/pete all pretty much seem like equals now

it's so different than how it was in the first season. don owned pete, and pete was always really sleezy and rude towards quiet little peggy. and even know after knowing each other's deep dark secrets, they all have reached this awesome level of harmony, loyalty, respect.... the 3 of them are like a little family trio.

as much as we love don, pete.... they've all had quite their share of unlikable d-bag moments. even peggy imo. but with all of their flaws and pasts, the writers have turned the 3 of them into very likable characters. just watching don count on peggy for the hamburger presentation and expressing his full faith in her was too good.
love it

[Ascf33]

Finale was fantastic.

[Arby]

Burt's send off was just so weird. So out of place in Mad Men. I kept waiting for animated blue birds to start flying around and chirping or something. It wasnt terrible, but just odd - and it lasted for what seemed like a long time

[MPizzle06]

See, I liked the ending. Not sure why, but I did. Don has a history of visions, whether it be his brother or now Bert.

[thebridge15]

I'm fine with visions, like pizzle said it happens a lot, but I agree that it was too long

[TwoStep2888]

It was a wonderful sendoff for Robert Morse, who has a long history in musical theater. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

[Dramageek]

Originally Posted by Arby

Burt's send off was just so weird. So out of place in Mad Men. I kept waiting for animated blue birds to start flying around and chirping or something. It wasnt terrible, but just odd - and it lasted for what seemed like a long time

Originally Posted by TwoStep2888

It was a wonderful sendoff for Robert Morse, who has a long history in musical theater. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

Pretty much this. Robert Morse starred in How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying on Broadway, among many other roles, and Matthew Weiner did this as a neat and respectful way of thanking Robert Morse's service to the show. He said as much in an interview that I don't currently have the link for. I think it fits in with the show's many quirky moments.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by TwoStep2888

It was a wonderful sendoff for Robert Morse, who has a long history in musical theater. I wouldn't read too much into it beyond that.

Thats all well and good for Robert Morse, but not so much for Mad Men.

[dmbman32]

The whole Joan thing is driving me absolutely crazy. I think I finally figured out what that is:

"Why" she is so mad at Don is completely understandable, but I don't think the writers have done a good enough job reminding the audience of it. All we have to remind ourselves is that one scene/episode where he fired Jaguar and cost the agency going public (and Joan $1 million). So in that case, combined with Joan being an aging single mother living with her mom, it makes all the sense in the world why she'd be so furious at him. $1 million in 1968 was probably about $4-5 million. How would YOU feel if someone cost you that money? But a casual viewer probably forgot that, thus doesn't get the seething hatred she now has for Don. If they want viewers to have that understanding/sympathy for Joan, both sides of the argument have to be front & center. In this case, it hasn't, and that's on the writers.

I'm also kind of pissed that they haven't had a scene (yet) where Don flat-out says something to Joan. He doesn't have to go postal or anything, but I'm surprised they haven't allowed him to ask her "What is your deal? Do you not remember all the good things I've done for you/said about you? And I'm the ONLY person who said not to sleep with the Jaguar guy?" Maybe they haven't because they want to establish that, given her current lot in life, Joan is only after money & security. Anything else is irrelevant.

Thoughts?

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by Arby

Thats all well and good for Robert Morse, but not so much for Mad Men.

[coldengrey12]

I think Bert's song and dance is going to mean a lot more come next season. It was Don basically realizing that all of this material wealth and success is great, but if he doesn't get his shit together in his personal life, he's going to die rich and alone just like Bert.

Originally Posted by dmbman32

The whole Joan thing is driving me absolutely crazy. I think I finally figured out what that is:

"Why" she is so mad at Don is completely understandable, but I don't think the writers have done a good enough job reminding the audience of it. All we have to remind ourselves is that one scene/episode where he fired Jaguar and cost the agency going public (and Joan $1 million). So in that case, combined with Joan being an aging single mother living with her mom, it makes all the sense in the world why she'd be so furious at him. $1 million in 1968 was probably about $4-5 million. How would YOU feel if someone cost you that money? But a casual viewer probably forgot that, thus doesn't get the seething hatred she now has for Don. If they want viewers to have that understanding/sympathy for Joan, both sides of the argument have to be front & center. In this case, it hasn't, and that's on the writers.

I'm also kind of pissed that they haven't had a scene (yet) where Don flat-out says something to Joan. He doesn't have to go postal or anything, but I'm surprised they haven't allowed him to ask her "What is your deal? Do you not remember all the good things I've done for you/said about you? And I'm the ONLY person who said not to sleep with the Jaguar guy?" Maybe they haven't because they want to establish that, given her current lot in life, Joan is only after money & security. Anything else is irrelevant.

Thoughts?

Mad Men leaves so much unspoken that a number of people seemed to spend this half season going "wait, why is that person pissed at Don?" The show definitely rewards attention to detail and long-term memory.

Also, I don't think Don told Joan not to sleep with the Jaguar guy because of his high moral character. He wanted his pitch to be the only reason they won the account.

[thebridge15]

if joan wanted money and security, she would have married bob

[dmbman32]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

if joan wanted money and security, she would have married bob

So then how do you explain Joan obviously being touched that Don came over and said not to sleep with the Jaguar guy, yet riding him off when she lost her $1 million/going public? I know she was also pissed that he always acted alone rather than working with the group, but it went from no problems to "screw him" in one act?

I think her problem is that she wants it all. She wants the money, security, respect, and real love (why she didn't marry Bob). Problem is, you can't have it all all the time.

[whygohome?]

Weiner wrote the series finale today

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-wat...le/single-page

[whygohome?]

Originally Posted by Arby

Thats all well and good for Robert Morse, but not so much for Mad Men.

it was about 3 minutes, foreshadowed Don's attitude for the remainder of the show while providing a nice send off for a character that's been with the show since episode 1, and a homage to a respected actor. Plus Don's facial expressions/slumping on the desk in that scene make up for the singing and dancing if that bothered you.

No idea why people are getting so hung up on that scene in a brilliant episode (not completely directed at you, you're definitely not alone). I didnt love it but death being hard to deal with is a recurring theme in this show, as well as Don having 'visions' or whatever, so it really wasnt that out of sorts for the show and, it was nice to have a little comic relief in a pretty important and intense episode.

Perhaps if we see don practicing the 'money isn't everything' approach in earnest the song and dance routine will be a little more relevant than it is now, which seems like just a send off for the actor. I guess we will find out in 2018 or whenever the rest of the season comes on

[AJF_41]

i think they have just done a poor job writing for joan
i mentioned this on the last page

now we are trying to justify it

[AJF_41]

"visions" are not out of character on mad men
"musical numbers" are out of character on mad men

[thebridge15]

is the consensus that this was a particularly great episode?

[whygohome?]

Originally Posted by AJF_41

"visions" are not out of character on mad men
"musical numbers" are out of character on mad men

yeah but when a semi important character dies I dont mind seeing something out of character.

it's a vision, i guess they present it with the idea that he can't control it and he's really emotional so his vision may be extravagant or something.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

is the consensus that this was a particularly great episode?

Overall yes. I loved the Burger Chef pitch. Peggy nailed it - it was her carousel moment

[dmbbearcat]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

is the consensus that this was a particularly great episode?

A lot of reviews I've read - as well as fans I've talked to - seem to think this was one of the series' best episodes. I'm inclined to agree.

[dmbbearcat]

Originally Posted by Arby

Thats all well and good for Robert Morse, but not so much for Mad Men.

But it didn't take away from anything either, and I feel like the overall message of Bert's song is going to be a driving theme over the last few episodes of the series.

[whygohome?]

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

A lot of reviews I've read - as well as fans I've talked to - seem to think this was one of the series' best episodes. I'm inclined to agree.

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

But it didn't take away from anything either, and I feel like the overall message of Bert's song is going to be a driving theme over the last few episodes of the series.

completely agree on both counts.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by dmbbearcat

But it didn't take away from anything either, and I feel like the overall message of Bert's song is going to be a driving theme over the last few episodes of the series.

It did though, in my opinion. I get that it is just a 'vision' of Don's but it just comes out of nowhere in the show. Over 7 seasons, the show has established itself as one thing, and that sequence was something completely different.

It would be like if Liam Neeson died at the end of Taken 3, then a bunch of Jews started stacking rocks on his grave site to pay tribute to Neeson's experience playing Schindler.


Completely out of 'character'

Character being the show.

[thebridge15]

I'm gonna need to rewatch. It was good but I thought it was weak for a season finale

[dmbbearcat]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

I'm gonna need to rewatch. It was good but I thought it was weak for a season finale

Is it being considered a season finale? I know it kinda is, but I'm not calling it that.

[thebridge15]

I think the showrunners treated it like one

like gliding over all

[Lee3691]

A big question I have is the gap - are they going to keep the entire show in the 60s (so there would be very little gap between the two half seasons) or end it in 1970?