Lillywhite is a production god - Page 3 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 01-06-2012, 05:49 AM   #61
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Re: Lillywhite is a production god

[QUOTE=aronofsky41;13237033].



Yeah, just like BTCS! Oh... wait...

Tims electric style of playing wasn't as intense then. Now it is filled with distortion. Im down for the electric if he plays like he did on BTCS, but that won't happen. So get rid of the electric.
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  • Old 01-06-2012, 05:50 AM   #62
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TMoore4075 View Post
    To play devils advocate Lillywhite did produce Mr. A-Z by Jason Mraz. Not exactly god like.
    That's probably fair, I've never heard it.

    But all great directors have plenty of clinkers. Spielberg, Hitchcock, Coppola, Scorsese, etc. etc. I imagine it's quite the same for most great record producers. Genius doesn't work out every time.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:51 AM   #63
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    That's probably fair, I've never heard it.

    But all great directors have plenty of clinkers. Spielberg, Hitchcock, Coppola, Scorsese, etc. etc. I imagine it's quite the same for most great record producers. Genius doesn't work out every time.
    I know. And certain producers were better with certain bands than others. Just had to throw it out there.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:51 AM   #64
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drumlax15 View Post
    Tims electric style of playing wasn't as intense then. Now it is filled with distortion. Im down for the electric if he plays like he did on BTCS, but that won't happen. So get rid of the electric.
    BTCS isn't full of distortion? We must be listening to different versions of that album. Maybe what you're actually referring to is the argument that Tim's lower down in the mix, but I don't even think that's mostly true.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:52 AM   #65
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TMoore4075 View Post
    I know. And certain producers were better with certain bands than others. Just had to throw it out there.
    It's definitely fair to criticize his work.

    Although his work with DMB is beyond reproach.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:52 AM   #66
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    I don't think it's valid to bring up other bands that havent had as good of records produced by Lillywhite. Getting DMB to make their best records has nothing to do with Jason Mraz, different style of music altogether.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:52 AM   #67
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Busted Stuff seemed hollow, because it was. The songs were great, but something was missing (lillywhite). Better than BW because the songs are 10x better, but Cavallo did a better job than Harris with what he had.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:53 AM   #68
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    Ok, explain to me my insanity. Explain to me how the arrangements and orchestrations of Busted Stuff are better than those on Big Whiskey. Go.
    I'd like you to explain how they are not. BS sucks, but tLWS are great makes no sense to me. The arrangements (with the exception of Captain) are essentially the same. Big Whiskey has a bit of choppiness to it from the get go (the bridge in Monkey is absolute garbage and should never have been included).
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:54 AM   #69
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Red&Black41 View Post
    Busted Stuff seemed hollow, because it was. The songs were great, but something was missing (lillywhite). Better than BW because the songs are 10x better, but Cavallo did a better job than Harris with what he had.
    Right on. Actually EVERYthing was missing IMO.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:55 AM   #70
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Big Whiskey felt like a Green Day album...a band way past their prime but still trying to show they can make some rock and roll tunes.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:57 AM   #71
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    I'd like you to explain how they are not.
    Unfair. You are the one calling my *opinion* insane. That's fine, but the burden is on you to explain why, not on me to defend myself.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    BS sucks, but tLWS are great makes no sense to me.
    Why? One is amazing and one is mediocre because of the production IMO. What's hard to get about that?
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    The arrangements (with the exception of Captain) are essentially the same.
    No they aren't. Not even close. Busted Stuff mostly sounds like a 5 piece band playing in a shoebox. The Sessions is layers upon layers upon layers. Not to mention wildly different tempos, string and horn parts, solos, etc. etc.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    Big Whiskey has a bit of choppiness to it from the get go (the bridge in Monkey is absolute garbage and should never have been included).
    What's wrong with the bridge of Monkey? It sounds a hell of a lot better than it does live.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:59 AM   #72
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    The bridge on monkey is arguably the worst bridge on any song they've made.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 05:59 AM   #73
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    He's not even the best U2 producer. Shit, he's not even the SECOND best U2 producer.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:00 AM   #74
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LadyMadonna68 View Post
    The bridge on monkey is arguably the worst bridge on any song they've made.
    While I disagree, the argument he and I are having is about arrangement and performance, not songwriting. The question is, did the get the best possible version of an arguably terrible bridge.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:01 AM   #75
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bothedmbFAN View Post
    He's not even the best U2 producer. Shit, he's not even the SECOND best U2 producer.
    If your point is that Daniel Lanois could do a better job with DMB than Lillywhite, I'm not discounting the possibility. Lanois is a god too.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:02 AM   #76
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    If your point is that Daniel Lanois could do a better job with DMB than Lillywhite, I'm not discounting the possibility. Lanois is a god too.
    Brian Eno > both of them.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:02 AM   #77
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bothedmbFAN View Post
    Brian Eno > both of them.
    Honestly outside of U2 I don't know much of Eno's work very well.

    But I'd take your word for it.

    Rob Cavallo is solid but I wouldn't mention him in the same breath as any of these three men.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:05 AM   #78
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    BTCS isn't full of distortion? We must be listening to different versions of that album. Maybe what you're actually referring to is the argument that Tim's lower down in the mix, but I don't even think that's mostly true.

    Did you read what i said. Tims electric sound today is full of distortion. It was perfect during BTCS.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:06 AM   #79
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    Honestly outside of U2 I don't know much of Eno's work very well.

    But I'd take your word for it.

    Rob Cavallo is solid but I wouldn't mention him in the same breath as any of these three men.
    The great Talking Heads albums are a good start.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:06 AM   #80
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LadyMadonna68 View Post
    I don't think it's valid to bring up other bands that havent had as good of records produced by Lillywhite. Getting DMB to make their best records has nothing to do with Jason Mraz, different style of music altogether.
    But the first post doesn't say with DMB. Just says he's a production god. If the statement had said with DMB fine but without DMB blinders on he's not. Not saying he sucks. Everyone does bad work in their lives at one time or another.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:07 AM   #81
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drumlax15 View Post
    Did you read what i said. Tims electric sound today is full of distortion. It was perfect during BTCS.
    And I said Tim's guitar was full of distortion on BTCS. Fact. Listen to the album again.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:08 AM   #82
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bothedmbFAN View Post
    The great Talking Heads albums are a good start.
    I don't really like them that much.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #83
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    And I said Tim's guitar was full of distortion on BTCS. Fact. Listen to the album again.
    The way it is today? Tell me which songs
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:09 AM   #84
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TMoore4075 View Post
    But the first post doesn't say with DMB. Just says he's a production god. If the statement had said with DMB fine but without DMB blinders on he's not. Not saying he sucks. Everyone does bad work in their lives at one time or another.
    No he's still a production God. Any man who produces three of the ten all time best rock albums by any band (IMO he did) is a production God, even if the never do anything else in their lives but make horrible records. Just the way I feel.

    But he happens to have some other damn good ones out there anyway.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:10 AM   #85
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Drumlax15 View Post
    The way it is today? Tell me which songs
    I didn't say "the way it is today." I said "full of distortion." There's lots of different types of distortion.

    That's fine, you don't like Tim's current tone. I do. The world goes on.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:11 AM   #86
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    Unfair. You are the one calling my *opinion* insane. That's fine, but the burden is on you to explain why, not on me to defend myself.

    Why? One is amazing and one is mediocre because of the production IMO. What's hard to get about that?

    No they aren't. Not even close. Busted Stuff mostly sounds like a 5 piece band playing in a shoebox. The Sessions is layers upon layers upon layers. Not to mention wildly different tempos, string and horn parts, solos, etc. etc.


    What's wrong with the bridge of Monkey? It sounds a hell of a lot better than it does live.
    The 'cigarettes and coffee' part of it should have been chopped and gone right into the funky horniness.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:12 AM   #87
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    The 'cigarettes and coffee' part of it should have been chopped and gone right into the funky horniness.
    That's a songwriting critique. We're talking about arrangement and performance, no?
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:18 AM   #88
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    The 'cigarettes and coffee' part of it should have been chopped and gone right into the funky horniness.
    That is the only good part of the song.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:18 AM   #89
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aronofsky41 View Post
    That's a songwriting critique. We're talking about arrangement and performance, no?
    That's part of the arrangement... we don't know if Cavallo said, 'hey, I think we need something here' and Dave pooped out that or if it was already there... if it were already there, Cavallo should have said, 'dude, I'm cutting this out... it's fucking stupid and destroys the flow of the song'.
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    Old 01-06-2012, 06:19 AM   #90
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    Re: Lillywhite is a production god

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by drop2d View Post
    That's part of the arrangement... we don't know if Cavallo said, 'hey, I think we need something here' and Dave pooped out that or if it was already there... if it were already there, Cavallo should have said, 'dude, I'm cutting this out... it's fucking stupid and destroys the flow of the song'.
    We can't continue this discussion obviously because you and I can't agree on a definition of arrangement versus songwriting. I flat out disagree with how you are defining arrangement.

    But you're pretty far from mathematically / logically demonstrating that my opinion is "insane."
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