Bottom line? F$@% the trumpet

[seanbrutus]

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz

Agree with your first paragraph. There are times I really enjoy him but it’s rare.

For the record, I listen to the current live shows all the time and love this band and sound. I just don’t like when RR plays about 90% of the time.

Hell, I used to say this about TR but TR toned it down and now I love him. I wish RR could follow suit. Relax a little and play from the soul, instead of just showing how incredibly technical he is at every spot. Music doesn’t always need to be technical to be good (look at Roi - played mostly from the soul).

I like 40% agree lol. I think Rashawn could play less of the squeal stuff. I just think because the crowd responds strongly to it, that he kept going with it and now it is "flanderized" in a sense. His solos in Crush and Stolen Away or gold. He doesn't need to swing for the fences all the time.

[OutofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz

So baffling. I mean, who wouldn’t want to listen to this.

5:48 https://youtu.be/AWvi3zTSzoE

9:15 https://youtu.be/kApHXHWRhig

What’s frustrating is I’ve played drums for 27 years, guitar for 13, trumpet for 4 years. Just by the odds, I imagine the majority of fans aren’t musicians themselves, hence the reason they ‘love’ everything about Buddy and Rashawn. It’s hard to be critical of something you don’t necessarily ‘practice’ every day.

I know that sounds douchey, but it would be like me criticizing football, art, or the millions of other things I don’t do day in day out.

I’ve said it before, RR is an extremely talented technical player, but his style simply doesn’t fit this band. He can’t carry jams for long… he gets lost in his solos. Doesn’t know where to go. It’s incredibly obvious. People can talk about directing all day and the importance of that role in the band, but this thread not discussion isn’t about that. It’s about how what he adds to this band actually detracts from the sound.

What’s the contrary to Rashawn and a trumpet player who fits DMb and ‘adds’ to the music? https://youtu.be/jmmODnes2XU

I basically agree with your point: Rashawn isn't the greatest soloist, and tends to start squealing prematurely or for no real reason. (Incidentally, I think Buddy has a similar weakness: his solos rarely go anywhere or do anything interesting, IMO. Though I do think the band sounds better with Buddy than without.)

But I think the examples you've pulled are a little misleading, especially the comparison with Hugh Masekela. In those videos of Rashawn, listen to Carter: he's absolutely going off, which I think pushes Rashawn to get louder. If Carter was playing with more restraint, might Rashawn also tone it down a bit?

To make the comparison with Masekela fair, listen to any Proudest Monkey from '09-'10 where Rashawn takes the first solo. Granted, they're not the most exciting solos I've ever heard, but there's no squealing or anything else unlistenable. So the way I see it, this isn't just a Rashawn problem, it's a mutually-reinforcing problem between Rashawn and the rest of the band: when the rest of the band gets louder and faster (especially Carter,) Rashawn responds in kind; then they respond to that, and the problem snowballs.

On that point, I've noticed that Rashawn has been generally less obnoxious in 4.0. And what else has changed? Carter has slowed down - there's a lot less cymbal-crashing than there used to be. I don't think those two things are unrelated.

[Bmwm3oz]

Originally Posted by OutofDarkness

I basically agree with your point: Rashawn isn't the greatest soloist, and tends to start squealing prematurely or for no real reason. (Incidentally, I think Buddy has a similar weakness: his solos rarely go anywhere or do anything interesting, IMO. Though I do think the band sounds better with Buddy than without.)

But I think the examples you've pulled are a little misleading, especially the comparison with Hugh Masekela. In those videos of Rashawn, listen to Carter: he's absolutely going off, which I think pushes Rashawn to get louder. If Carter was playing with more restraint, might Rashawn also tone it down a bit?

To make the comparison with Masekela fair, listen to any Proudest Monkey from '09-'10 where Rashawn takes the first solo. Granted, they're not the most exciting solos I've ever heard, but there's no squealing or anything else unlistenable. So the way I see it, this isn't just a Rashawn problem, it's a mutually-reinforcing problem between Rashawn and the rest of the band: when the rest of the band gets louder and faster (especially Carter,) Rashawn responds in kind; then they respond to that, and the problem snowballs.

On that point, I've noticed that Rashawn has been generally less obnoxious in 4.0. And what else has changed? Carter has slowed down - there's a lot less cymbal-crashing than there used to be. I don't think those two things are unrelated.

I hear what you’re saying and agree with the point about RR matching the sound, but I would bet a lot of money that Masekela would not play the same way if put into those positions with the band. But, fair point. If Rashawn could match the way Jeff plays in those situations, that would be heaven.

Just another example. This one actually had me cracking up pretty good. It’s almost as if the neighbor kid got a hold of a trumpet and someone dared him to play as loud and as obnoxious as possible. What he’s doing is actually difficult, but it sounds so out of place. Carter and Jeff do well together in these moments, but Rashawn’s go 2 move is the high pitched squeals.

6:17 - https://youtu.be/Ud2y4ZXQ5JA

[Bmwm3oz]

Originally Posted by seanbrutus

I like 40% agree lol. I think Rashawn could play less of the squeal stuff. I just think because the crowd responds strongly to it, that he kept going with it and now it is "flanderized" in a sense. His solos in Crush and Stolen Away or gold. He doesn't need to swing for the fences all the time.

Exactly ^^

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Saying Rashawn Ross doesn't know how to solo is hilarious. Yes, his climax is often super loud and I can see how that's annoying to some folks. But that's a small percentage of the notes he plays each night, which are played to make the crowd erupt. And it works every time.

Here's a RR solo, comes in over 4 minutes and builds excellently throughout, starting slow, and ending with bang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9o1AMqBC0s

Time stamp 7:20-11:30. Shoutout to Xcacel

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Here's some other greats:

Loving Wings: https://youtu.be/VoyHjOhYIp4?t=208

Stolen Away: https://youtu.be/6OPNDaqJqX4?t=286

Spaceman: https://youtu.be/l-urYrU32zc?t=186

Proudest Monkey: https://youtu.be/n_k4r0xrwhU?t=149

[Bmwm3oz]

Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman

Saying Rashawn Ross doesn't know how to solo is hilarious. Yes, his climax is often super loud and I can see how that's annoying to some folks. But that's a small percentage of the notes he plays each night, which are played to make the crowd erupt. And it works every time.

Here's a RR solo, comes in over 4 minutes and builds excellently throughout, starting slow, and ending with bang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9o1AMqBC0s

Time stamp 7:20-11:30. Shoutout to Xcacel

I didn’t feel a thing. Listened to the entire clip and as usual, I end up ‘thinking’ while he plays. Something I never do when Jeff Coffin, Roi, and even TR solo. TR sometimes, but not often. I can almost find feeling in TR. Hell, not a big fan of Buddy but I feel his solos way more often than Rashawn too.

The 2006 Break Free at Fenway is Rashawns best performance that I’ve heard. Outside of that, I can’t think of really anything that gives me that ‘feeling’ we all aim for as musicians and fans.

[#41#36#40]

Has anyone been fucked by a trumpet?

[YankeesDMB41]

I have no problem with anyone who dislikes Rashawn's playing or his presence. I think his entrance in the band is what signaled the end of the era that so many people love. He also helped completely changed the live show from what it was. I just think it's weird for people to discuss a future without him. I think it's a safe bet to say he will be in DMB until DMB ends.

[scollie41]

Originally Posted by #41#36#40

Has anyone been fucked by a trumpet?

There was this one time at band camp…..

[OutofDarkness]

Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman

Saying Rashawn Ross doesn't know how to solo is hilarious. Yes, his climax is often super loud and I can see how that's annoying to some folks. But that's a small percentage of the notes he plays each night, which are played to make the crowd erupt. And it works every time.

Here's a RR solo, comes in over 4 minutes and builds excellently throughout, starting slow, and ending with bang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9o1AMqBC0s

Time stamp 7:20-11:30. Shoutout to Xcacel

I said earlier, and probably should've reiterated, that RR is much better on the quieter songs. The links you gave in your next post affirm that, and I would add Baby Blue from WH10v3, perhaps his greatest moment on stage.

But honestly, to me the Des Moines Crush highlights RR's weaknesses as a soloist. It's not a bad solo by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just uninteresting to me. it wanders around for a little while (with an ill-advised wahwah effect,) gets louder, and then just kind of...ends. The finale is really abrupt and underwhelming imo (to be fair, the mix does him no favors, which of course isn't his fault.)

Here's how I'd express my dissatisfaction with RR: there's rarely a moment when he's soloing that I feel the need to rewind to hear a lick again. I rarely get surprised by anything he does, or feel "wow, that note hit me like a truck!" DMB's best soloists - Roi, Butch, and Jeff - have had that effect on me many times. That's not to say RR hasn't had great moments. I mentioned Baby Blue; I'd also add Loving Wings from WH8v5 and Break Free from LT6. Those are great solos by any standard. And Break Free is an actually very effective use of squealing: it capitalizes on the emotional power, the sense of longing, at the heart of the song. I love it. But those moments are few and far between, imo.

Just to be clear, I'm not an RR hater. I don't agree with the sentiment of the OP, I don't think he ruins the band, I don't want to see him gone, etc. I just find his work with the band underwhelming.

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz

Just another example. This one actually had me cracking up pretty good. It’s almost as if the neighbor kid got a hold of a trumpet and someone dared him to play as loud and as obnoxious as possible. What he’s doing is actually difficult, but it sounds so out of place. Carter and Jeff do well together in these moments, but Rashawn’s go 2 move is the high pitched squeals.

6:17 - https://youtu.be/Ud2y4ZXQ5JA

that's ridiculous. I actually usually like these Seek Up intros: I'm into the chaotic, free jazz-inspired horns and drums. But this one is kind of a mess.

[crashintonickdm]

Nothing jazzy about seek up intros these days

A mess of noise

[ToySoldier#34]

I don't like when Buddy plays organ, don't like when Buddy squeals, aside from that I love their sound on pretty much everything

[Bmwm3oz]

Originally Posted by OutofDarkness

I said earlier, and probably should've reiterated, that RR is much better on the quieter songs. The links you gave in your next post affirm that, and I would add Baby Blue from WH10v3, perhaps his greatest moment on stage.

But honestly, to me the Des Moines Crush highlights RR's weaknesses as a soloist. It's not a bad solo by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just uninteresting to me. it wanders around for a little while (with an ill-advised wahwah effect,) gets louder, and then just kind of...ends. The finale is really abrupt and underwhelming imo (to be fair, the mix does him no favors, which of course isn't his fault.)

Here's how I'd express my dissatisfaction with RR: there's rarely a moment when he's soloing that I feel the need to rewind to hear a lick again. I rarely get surprised by anything he does, or feel "wow, that note hit me like a truck!" DMB's best soloists - Roi, Butch, and Jeff - have had that effect on me many times. That's not to say RR hasn't had great moments. I mentioned Baby Blue; I'd also add Loving Wings from WH8v5 and Break Free from LT6. Those are great solos by any standard. And Break Free is an actually very effective use of squealing: it capitalizes on the emotional power, the sense of longing, at the heart of the song. I love it. But those moments are few and far between, imo.

Just to be clear, I'm not an RR hater. I don't agree with the sentiment of the OP, I don't think he ruins the band, I don't want to see him gone, etc. I just find his work with the band underwhelming.



that's ridiculous. I actually usually like these Seek Up intros: I'm into the chaotic, free jazz-inspired horns and drums. But this one is kind of a mess.

Just watched it again. 6:24 through 6:30’ish is when things really get going

[Jamima2fl]

Bold statement that I'd like to reiterate, and I'm genuinely hoping someone has stated this in the previous 9 pages:

There would not be DMB, now, without Rashawn Ross.

Keep in mind:

- A piano has 88 notes over 7 octaves
- A guitar has 49 notes not counting harmonics, 1/4 notes, and chords (and all the other weird shit Tim can do to a guitar)
- An alto sax can play 53 notes and arguably 128 notes per octave (that "Middle Eastern" sound)
- A trumpet has around 39 notes over 3 octaves, a significantly skilled player like Rashawn can play 2-3 more octaves upping that to around 88 notes but it's no easy feat, nor typical to have a part in most songs or musicals.

So what are you expecting to hear?

Now on the flip side, Iron sharpens iron... Rashawn stepped up to the plate w/ LeRoi (a master), Rashawn is better because of LeRoi, Jeff is good but Rashawn made him better for DMB. My fear is Rashawn isn't sharpening Jeff anymore, and vice versa... they both can get lost in solos (so did Boyd), they both go "high" when lost or for a reaction. Perhaps they can plateau or find themselves not as comfortable with the material if they aren't rehearsing regularly. But they are excellent musicians deserving and worthy of being up there.

Take note that DMB 4.0 isn't as solo-centric... we still get a "jam band" and we still get solos. Personally, I look at Rashawn & Jeff as a horn section in DMB... not solo artists.

It would be stupid to cheer Rashawn out of DMB. I feel that if that were the case, you'd be catching D&T shows only... and IF DMB toured I don't think you'd get much set diversity show to show.

As a DMB fan, I'm thankful he got on board when he did and I'm glad he's on stage.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by crashintonickdm

Nothing jazzy about seek up intros these days

A mess of noise

Mess of noise the whole time?

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by OutofDarkness

I said earlier, and probably should've reiterated, that RR is much better on the quieter songs. The links you gave in your next post affirm that, and I would add Baby Blue from WH10v3, perhaps his greatest moment on stage.

But honestly, to me the Des Moines Crush highlights RR's weaknesses as a soloist. It's not a bad solo by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just uninteresting to me. it wanders around for a little while (with an ill-advised wahwah effect,) gets louder, and then just kind of...ends. The finale is really abrupt and underwhelming imo (to be fair, the mix does him no favors, which of course isn't his fault.)

Here's how I'd express my dissatisfaction with RR: there's rarely a moment when he's soloing that I feel the need to rewind to hear a lick again. I rarely get surprised by anything he does, or feel "wow, that note hit me like a truck!" DMB's best soloists - Roi, Butch, and Jeff - have had that effect on me many times. That's not to say RR hasn't had great moments. I mentioned Baby Blue; I'd also add Loving Wings from WH8v5 and Break Free from LT6. Those are great solos by any standard. And Break Free is an actually very effective use of squealing: it capitalizes on the emotional power, the sense of longing, at the heart of the song. I love it. But those moments are few and far between, imo.

Just to be clear, I'm not an RR hater. I don't agree with the sentiment of the OP, I don't think he ruins the band, I don't want to see him gone, etc. I just find his work with the band underwhelming.

It's not a mind blowing solo, but what I was showing is that it is a 4 minute solo, and he's actually playing pretty reserved for the majority of it, before it builds to a loud ending. It isn't 4 minutes of straight squealing as some around here will have you believe.

Also, I agree with Baby Blue. That version is great. A couple of my other favorite Rashawn moments come in the Beach Ball from the Big Whiskey iTunes pass, and the Captain from the Alpine 2015 encore trax.