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Old 07-26-2021, 12:06 PM   #121
Antiramie
 
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Re: the (2021) summer so far

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
Some more data:

Of the 38 songs played, 23 (61%) had 10 or more plays in the 2019 summer tour (46 shows). 8 songs (21%) had more 20 or more plays in the 2019 summer tour.

Of the 38 songs played, 23 (61%) have been played 20 or more times across the last 2 summer tours (2018 & 2019) combined (103 shows). 15 (39%) had been played 30 or more times across the last 2 summer tours. 10 songs (26%) had less than 10 plays across the last 2 summer tours. SUAD, Sweet, and If Only had 0 plays across the last 2 summer tours - SUAD was played twice in 2020, but I'm only counting the last 2 full summer tours for comparison.

23 of the songs (61%) over the first two night were played in at-least 20% of the shows across the last 2 summer tours. Bayou, DDTW, and DYR have been played at more than 50% of the shows over the last 2 summer tours.


Not surprised at all by those numbers. I posted similar stats in 2019 and 2018 I think. The band has gone to a more formulaic set, where about 2/3 of the songs are highly predictable. The rest is a mix of lesser played stuff that tour and debuts. Dave has settled in with a rotation of old school songs that he seems to play in certain slots/areas of the set.

The split between fans here on the setlists is usually about variety and whether people like those old school songs enough to want to hear them all the time. Ive always been of the opinion that more unpredictability is better, even if you get a few clunkers in place of great songs here and there. Other people would rather hear Too Much and Grey Street 20 times instead of there being an equal chance you might get The Stone, Smooth Rider, or some other somewhat random song in that slot.

The lack of a violin isn’t great, but I don’t even consider going to anything more than my hometown show these days because I know I’m likely not going to hear a lot more rare/exciting stuff than I’ll see at one mid week show. Even the destination shows are almost as predictable as the single stops.

Last edited by Antiramie; 07-26-2021 at 12:10 PM.
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  • Old 07-26-2021, 12:19 PM   #122
    but1well
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Has the usual Texas run been indicative of the tour as a whole?
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    This is literally the opposite of communism. Now, if they came out and cancelled all seats and said you are all to sit on the lawn, as peasant equals, you'd have an argument.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:20 PM   #123
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    I almost never comment, mostly a lurker, etc. I haven't seen the band since 2001 but was a die hard from 98 - 2003. Always kept up with the band, bought the new records. Got off the ride with Stand Up. Found it very confusing at the time. Now I mostly like it!

    Heard "Sweet" on NPR. Bought AFTW. Liked it!

    First song I heard from CT was "Come On, Come On." Loved it! Still do!

    Favorite album is BTCS. Favorite song is "Pig."

    I would say I'm a bit more casual than most of you folks, and yet here I am on a DMB forum in 2021. Okay - there's some of my pedigree.

    I think a factor not often explored in these discussions about setlist variation is how much Dave enjoys/feels comfortable (or doesn't enjoy/feel comfortable) playing certain songs live. Maybe it's because he doesn't feel connected to the material. Maybe it's because it's challenging to sing or play. Maybe it's because he's the one who has to sit and watch most of the crowd look bored while he plays a treat for the die hards ("#34" in 2018, "Let You Down" in 2015, etc.).

    I chose some insanely rare songs for effect, but the logic applies.

    As a touring musician myself (eye roll, I get it), sometimes songs just don't work live from tour to tour or even from night to night. And sometimes a song can become stigmatized, (for a variety of reasons - band, fans, weather, flubs, personal shit) disappear and never get the chance it deserves to feature heavily on a tour. [Quick aside about Metallica (this will make sense in a bit) - In 1997 they released Reload. They performed "The Unforgiven II" at an awards show on national television and Kirk massively fucked up the intro. They almost never played the song again (only 6 times in 24 years). It was a HIT SINGLE.]

    Conversely, some songs just effortlessly work. For some reason, a lot of the songs from BW seem to work for Dave. Personally, I'll take "Squirm" and "LITHOG" at any show I go to (which aren't many, unfortunately, due to my job). I more or less tolerate "Shake Me" and "Why I Am."

    I think considering these factors, the variety in the setlist for DMB fans is amazing. A huge catalog (first three albums almost entirely classic), new material that's good (despite the general opinion here it seems), a die hard (one could argue entitled and/or needy) fanbase, plenty of casuals to fill sheds every year and Dave's own cooky artistic intuitions which is why we fell in love with him in the first place but seems to be one of the main sources of disappointment these days (I've seen it said here often that Dave doesn't know which of his songs are any good. REALLY?). All of that in the DMB 4.0 stew and yet we STILL get tour debut setlists that include:

    Granny, Minarets, Grey Street (3rd verse), LLD, WWYS, Seek Up, SUAD, YNK, Squirm, Raven, and some new songs that are pretty damn good!

    You guys are spoiled as shit!

    Another one of my favorite bands is Metallica. I host an all Metallica podcast (another eye roll and, again, I get it) called Metal Up Your Podcast. Try being a fan while those dudes tour! Basically the same set with a handful of "rotating slots" that each have 1 - 4 options. For about four years! It's apples and oranges and I'm sure many of you can't stand Metallica. No big deal.

    But I will say this. When I saw the setlists for these last two DMB shows I felt emotional. When I saw the video of the 3rd verse of Grey Street and heard the crowd's response I teared up! I excitedly texted a friend of mine (really the only friend in real life I know who I can talk to about DMB shit) and we were like kids again talking about the setlists.

    It wasn't until I came here and saw that, for some people, the setlists sucked! I wasn't planning on going to any shows (scheduling conflicts) but now I'm bending over backwards to make some shows work. I saw some people saying they are NO LONGER planning on seeing this tour.

    I guess it really is just a matter of perspective.

    Anyway, this concludes my one post every 3 years. I appreciate all of your opinions and enjoy lurking!
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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:34 PM   #124
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clintmwells View Post
    I
    It wasn't until I came here and saw that, for some people, the setlists sucked! I wasn't planning on going to any shows (scheduling conflicts) but now I'm bending over backwards to make some shows work. I saw some people saying they are NO LONGER planning on seeing this tour.

    I guess it really is just a matter of perspective.
    Appreciate your POV and insight - and you’re spot on, it really is a matter of perspective

    I think there’s definitely something to be said for taking time off from the band vs seeing them each year. If you have taken some time off, I can totally see looking at the set and being wowed (and, to be fair, there have been lots of “wow” moments even for me - 3rd verse of Grey St, YNK, SUAD, etc).

    But if you’ve gone to a bunch of shows in the last 2 tours, chances are that half or more of the sets these first two shows would be very recent repeats for you. And that’s my personal issue - I have a busy summer and only so much time to see live music, and I have to make a few decisions on who I want to see in that limited time. If it’s between a band where I know 50% or more of the show will be basically identical to what I heard when I saw them last, versus one that’s a bit less predictable - I’ll probably take the latter 90% of the time. That’s just my personal consumer habit - I don’t pay to see the same movie twice in theaters, etc. I want to make sure I get new experiences out of these outings. If I can’t do that at DMB, I know I can do it elsewhere.

    The bold is actually the type of thing that drives your positive viewpoint, isn’t it? You noted having been away from seeing the band for quite a while; some of us are openly wondering if that’s a better option than seeing them this year. The caveat is, they may not play long enough for us to return back to them after time off.

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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:42 PM   #125
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    I really like the little rock band guitar intro to Shake Me from Saturday night. Hope to see that evolve as the tour goes especially if it's slotted in a closer spot. Gives it a little build so the first notes punch a little harder.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:43 PM   #126
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Appreciate your POV and insight - and you’re spot on, it really is a matter of perspective

    I think there’s definitely something to be said for taking time off from the band vs seeing them each year. If you have taken some time off, I can totally see looking at the set and being wowed (and, to be fair, there have been lots of “wow” moments even for me - 3rd verse of Grey St, YNK, SUAD, etc).

    But if you’ve gone to a bunch of shows in the last 2 tours, chances are that half or more of the sets these first two shows would be very recent repeats for you. And that’s my personal issue - I have a busy summer and only so much time to see live music, and I have to make a few decisions on who I want to see in that limited time. If it’s between a band where I know 50% or more of the show will be basically identical to what I heard when I saw them last, versus one that’s a bit less predictable - I’ll probably take the latter 90% of the time. That’s just my personal consumer habit - I don’t pay to see the same movie twice in theaters, etc. I want to make sure I get new experiences out of these outings. If I can’t do that at DMB, I know I can do it elsewhere.

    The bold is actually the type of thing that drives your positive viewpoint, isn’t it? You noted having been away from seeing the band for quite a while; some of us are openly wondering if that’s a better option than seeing them this year. The caveat is, they may not play long enough for us to return back to them after time off.
    Yea, it basically comes down to what people want as consumers. I stopped seeing Coldplay a long time ago because after I saw them twice I knew there was no point in going to their shows again unless I wanted to hear the same stuff again. It's getting like that with DMB. My one show a year is enough, and my expectations have gone from "man I hope this set rocks and Dave plays some stuff I've never heard before" to "I have an excuse to go do something, have a few drinks, and dance, and I hope it doesn't rain and there aren't any annoying people next to me".

    Last edited by Antiramie; 07-26-2021 at 12:44 PM.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:47 PM   #127
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    No Ants in the first two shows...when can we start the freak out?!
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    Old 07-26-2021, 12:54 PM   #128
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clintmwells View Post
    I almost never comment, mostly a lurker, etc. I haven't seen the band since 2001 but was a die hard from 98 - 2003. Always kept up with the band, bought the new records. Got off the ride with Stand Up. Found it very confusing at the time. Now I mostly like it!

    Heard "Sweet" on NPR. Bought AFTW. Liked it!

    First song I heard from CT was "Come On, Come On." Loved it! Still do!

    Favorite album is BTCS. Favorite song is "Pig."

    I would say I'm a bit more casual than most of you folks, and yet here I am on a DMB forum in 2021. Okay - there's some of my pedigree.

    I think a factor not often explored in these discussions about setlist variation is how much Dave enjoys/feels comfortable (or doesn't enjoy/feel comfortable) playing certain songs live. Maybe it's because he doesn't feel connected to the material. Maybe it's because it's challenging to sing or play. Maybe it's because he's the one who has to sit and watch most of the crowd look bored while he plays a treat for the die hards ("#34" in 2018, "Let You Down" in 2015, etc.).

    I chose some insanely rare songs for effect, but the logic applies.

    As a touring musician myself (eye roll, I get it), sometimes songs just don't work live from tour to tour or even from night to night. And sometimes a song can become stigmatized, (for a variety of reasons - band, fans, weather, flubs, personal shit) disappear and never get the chance it deserves to feature heavily on a tour. [Quick aside about Metallica (this will make sense in a bit) - In 1997 they released Reload. They performed "The Unforgiven II" at an awards show on national television and Kirk massively fucked up the intro. They almost never played the song again (only 6 times in 24 years). It was a HIT SINGLE.]

    Conversely, some songs just effortlessly work. For some reason, a lot of the songs from BW seem to work for Dave. Personally, I'll take "Squirm" and "LITHOG" at any show I go to (which aren't many, unfortunately, due to my job). I more or less tolerate "Shake Me" and "Why I Am."

    I think considering these factors, the variety in the setlist for DMB fans is amazing. A huge catalog (first three albums almost entirely classic), new material that's good (despite the general opinion here it seems), a die hard (one could argue entitled and/or needy) fanbase, plenty of casuals to fill sheds every year and Dave's own cooky artistic intuitions which is why we fell in love with him in the first place but seems to be one of the main sources of disappointment these days (I've seen it said here often that Dave doesn't know which of his songs are any good. REALLY?). All of that in the DMB 4.0 stew and yet we STILL get tour debut setlists that include:

    Granny, Minarets, Grey Street (3rd verse), LLD, WWYS, Seek Up, SUAD, YNK, Squirm, Raven, and some new songs that are pretty damn good!

    You guys are spoiled as shit!

    Another one of my favorite bands is Metallica. I host an all Metallica podcast (another eye roll and, again, I get it) called Metal Up Your Podcast. Try being a fan while those dudes tour! Basically the same set with a handful of "rotating slots" that each have 1 - 4 options. For about four years! It's apples and oranges and I'm sure many of you can't stand Metallica. No big deal.

    But I will say this. When I saw the setlists for these last two DMB shows I felt emotional. When I saw the video of the 3rd verse of Grey Street and heard the crowd's response I teared up! I excitedly texted a friend of mine (really the only friend in real life I know who I can talk to about DMB shit) and we were like kids again talking about the setlists.

    It wasn't until I came here and saw that, for some people, the setlists sucked! I wasn't planning on going to any shows (scheduling conflicts) but now I'm bending over backwards to make some shows work. I saw some people saying they are NO LONGER planning on seeing this tour.

    I guess it really is just a matter of perspective.

    Anyway, this concludes my one post every 3 years. I appreciate all of your opinions and enjoy lurking!

    I truly get your argument that we are "spoiled" in comparison to other acts.. BUT the reason we are DMB fans is largely because of the variety of the sets and atleast used to have more variety in the jams... No show was the same.. And it held true.. even in the 90's when they only had 3 albums of material to go off..it felt like there was more effort to make every show unique and different...

    Fast forward to now... The band has 100's of songs... And they seemingly stick to the same 40... essentially enough for a 2 night stand with no repeats... and then they will have another 10 that get played every 4 or 5 nights... And then they'll do a few songs a handful of times and then of course the random one offs like Spoon...

    I also agree with you that the really rare songs are indeed duds in a 20,000 seat venue more often than not.. Dreaming Tree is a brilliant studio song, and they found a way to make it work live in 07/08 .. But most of the time it starts out and it's just 3-4 minutes before the song gets going even.. Most fans don't really know that song or have any deep connection to it like the do Crush or Stay or Rapunzel... But I'm not so much asking for a 20 song set with 15 rare songs.. My example being that the first half of 7/23 seemed super special.. Starting off with the surprise #41 into a few classics with the Grey Street 3rd verse plus a new song... From there though it went down hill into what looked like a set from June 2018..

    I'm not arguing that EVERY single show needs to be a rarities fest... or even a super special setlist... But just the placement of songs... and the little jams or fills that used to change every night... or realize that 90 percent of fans don't want a DDTW- Shake Me Encore...

    I'm a playing musician as well... so I get your point that having a rehearsed setlist is just what most bands/acts do so that the fans get their monies' worth at a big show. U2, Metallica, Fleetwood Mac etc... You go see these bands more than once or twice in a five year period and they are essentially playing the same show the same way.. But it is of course a spectacle..

    DMB has branded themselves and is known for changing it up.. So with variety as PART of what makes them awesome.. I don't find it complaining or ungrateful to say I wish they would go back to that a bit..

    Last edited by #41#36#40; 07-26-2021 at 12:59 PM.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 01:34 PM   #129
    clintmwells
     
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Appreciate your POV and insight - and youíre spot on, it really is a matter of perspective

    I think thereís definitely something to be said for taking time off from the band vs seeing them each year. If you have taken some time off, I can totally see looking at the set and being wowed (and, to be fair, there have been lots of ďwowĒ moments even for me - 3rd verse of Grey St, YNK, SUAD, etc).

    But if youíve gone to a bunch of shows in the last 2 tours, chances are that half or more of the sets these first two shows would be very recent repeats for you. And thatís my personal issue - I have a busy summer and only so much time to see live music, and I have to make a few decisions on who I want to see in that limited time. If itís between a band where I know 50% or more of the show will be basically identical to what I heard when I saw them last, versus one thatís a bit less predictable - Iíll probably take the latter 90% of the time. Thatís just my personal consumer habit - I donít pay to see the same movie twice in theaters, etc. I want to make sure I get new experiences out of these outings. If I canít do that at DMB, I know I can do it elsewhere.

    The bold is actually the type of thing that drives your positive viewpoint, isnít it? You noted having been away from seeing the band for quite a while; some of us are openly wondering if thatís a better option than seeing them this year. The caveat is, they may not play long enough for us to return back to them after time off.
    Fair!

    I will say, although I haven't been able to attend any shows, I followed the 2018 and 2019 tours pretty closely. Most weekends those summers my bandmates were completely flabbergasted that I spent my evenings on the bus in my bunk watching DMB on youtube (I thought the "Break Free" E1 on the arena tour in 2018 was a clear indication the Batson Sessions were going to be officially released in some form after the leak....I didn't quite nail that one!)

    Even looking back at that show now I see that KTK, Minarets, WWYS, She and Sleep to Dream Her were played. Pretty damn cool to me!

    But to your main point -

    I think what drives my positive viewpoint is perspective and personal preference. This was my favorite band for a really important stretch of years in high school. The fact that they are still performing and delivering at this level is remarkable to me. I don't think CT can hang with the first three albums. But I think it's damn good and I still listen to VITR, COCO, Again and Again and B&BB on the regular. I sometimes imagine Dave looking at the comments here and thinking, "I don't get it - I'm still just writing the same old Dave Matthews songs." Really - it's the world that's changed more than Dave. IMO!

    In those respects, I'm just grateful for the level they still perform at. And I don't really mean that to in a backhanded way insinuate anyone else here is UNgrateful. I realize we all have a lot of different personal reasons for our connections to this music.

    In economic terms, my personal preference as a consumer is to enjoy a band that looks and sounds good. For the show to have production value and the band to seem to be enjoying themselves. I saw 5 shows on the last Metallica tour. Why? I wanted to catch the rotating slots (caught almost everything) and I wanted to see my friends and enjoy the band together. Did I make a pee pee during Sandman? Sure. But did I make a pee pee during my 5th time in a row seeing Puppets or Creeping Death or Sad But True? No fucking way. Again - that may just be apples and oranges.

    In short - I think I just simply agree with you? Ha!
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    Old 07-26-2021, 01:42 PM   #130
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by #41#36#40 View Post
    I truly get your argument that we are "spoiled" in comparison to other acts.. BUT the reason we are DMB fans is largely because of the variety of the sets and atleast used to have more variety in the jams... No show was the same.. And it held true.. even in the 90's when they only had 3 albums of material to go off..it felt like there was more effort to make every show unique and different...

    Fast forward to now... The band has 100's of songs... And they seemingly stick to the same 40... essentially enough for a 2 night stand with no repeats... and then they will have another 10 that get played every 4 or 5 nights... And then they'll do a few songs a handful of times and then of course the random one offs like Spoon...

    I also agree with you that the really rare songs are indeed duds in a 20,000 seat venue more often than not.. Dreaming Tree is a brilliant studio song, and they found a way to make it work live in 07/08 .. But most of the time it starts out and it's just 3-4 minutes before the song gets going even.. Most fans don't really know that song or have any deep connection to it like the do Crush or Stay or Rapunzel... But I'm not so much asking for a 20 song set with 15 rare songs.. My example being that the first half of 7/23 seemed super special.. Starting off with the surprise #41 into a few classics with the Grey Street 3rd verse plus a new song... From there though it went down hill into what looked like a set from June 2018..

    I'm not arguing that EVERY single show needs to be a rarities fest... or even a super special setlist... But just the placement of songs... and the little jams or fills that used to change every night... or realize that 90 percent of fans don't want a DDTW- Shake Me Encore...

    I'm a playing musician as well... so I get your point that having a rehearsed setlist is just what most bands/acts do so that the fans get their monies' worth at a big show. U2, Metallica, Fleetwood Mac etc... You go see these bands more than once or twice in a five year period and they are essentially playing the same show the same way.. But it is of course a spectacle..

    DMB has branded themselves and is known for changing it up.. So with variety as PART of what makes them awesome.. I don't find it complaining or ungrateful to say I wish they would go back to that a bit..
    Yeah, I agree with this. I'm remembering also how exciting the setlists were in the late 90's. I was a tape trader at the time. But looking back, those setlists look boring as shit! The same songs over and over (in their defense, they didn't have many to chose from!)

    What made those shows special (I think? Can hardly remember at age 37 now) was the flow of the setlist, the potential for davespeak, an occasional deep cut (Cry Freedom, PFWYG, Spoon, PM) a new song with almost no discernible words (#40, Say Goodbye) or a cover (The Maker, Wynona, Exodus, etc,).

    Seriously just trying to remember out loud.

    But I agree with you. The band is associated with variety. I guess the question is - at what point does one accept that the band is going to play with less variety into the sunset? And are their obvious bids to appease the die hards (GS 3rd verse, occasional deep cuts, etc.) enough?

    I guess from where I sit, I think it's pretty cool that the amount of variety that still exists, well, exists.

    Open to being wrong and appreciate all the points you made.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 01:48 PM   #131
    Climb2safety
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    The concept of purposefully not going to see shows for an extended while in order to make some future show you may go to more enjoyable seems like a weird calculation to me.

    Go, don’t go, but if I’m not digging it today and nothing changes I don’t see why in 5 years I suddenly will.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 01:58 PM   #132
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    The concept of purposefully not going to see shows for an extended while in order to make some future show you may go to more enjoyable seems like a weird calculation to me.

    Go, donít go, but if Iím not digging it today and nothing changes I donít see why in 5 years I suddenly will.
    Well, because you won't be as burnt out as some of the folks here clearly are. Which is understandable to me!

    As of now, I'm seeing DMB for the first time in 20 years on September 26th (only because we're playing the same festival - AND I'm missing Metallica in Louisville that evening to see it.)

    I can tell you with absolute certainty that I will not care if they play whatever songs people are tired of on this forum. Shake Me, Why I Am, Billies, Satellite, Ants, Watchtower, whatever. I will even tolerate a 10 minute "Stay," which has been my least favorite DMB song since BTCS.

    Maybe everyone needs a 20 year live break?
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:03 PM   #133
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clintmwells View Post
    Well, because you won't be as burnt out as some of the folks here clearly are. Which is understandable to me!

    As of now, I'm seeing DMB for the first time in 20 years on September 26th (only because we're playing the same festival - AND I'm missing Metallica in Louisville that evening to see it.)

    I can tell you with absolute certainty that I will not care if they play whatever songs people are tired of on this forum. Shake Me, Why I Am, Billies, Satellite, Ants, Watchtower, whatever. I will even tolerate a 10 minute "Stay," which has been my least favorite DMB song since BTCS.

    Maybe everyone needs a 20 year live break?
    If it was a matter of being burnt out I would think only a few shows a year would do it.

    If itís simply not the band it once was for you no break will change that.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:06 PM   #134
    clintmwells
     
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

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    Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
    If itís simply not the band it once was for you no break will change that.
    Good point!
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:12 PM   #135
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

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    Originally Posted by clintmwells View Post
    Yeah, I agree with this. I'm remembering also how exciting the setlists were in the late 90's. I was a tape trader at the time. But looking back, those setlists look boring as shit! The same songs over and over (in their defense, they didn't have many to chose from!)

    What made those shows special (I think? Can hardly remember at age 37 now) was the flow of the setlist, the potential for davespeak, an occasional deep cut (Cry Freedom, PFWYG, Spoon, PM) a new song with almost no discernible words (#40, Say Goodbye) or a cover (The Maker, Wynona, Exodus, etc,).

    Seriously just trying to remember out loud.

    But I agree with you. The band is associated with variety. I guess the question is - at what point does one accept that the band is going to play with less variety into the sunset? And are their obvious bids to appease the die hards (GS 3rd verse, occasional deep cuts, etc.) enough?

    I guess from where I sit, I think it's pretty cool that the amount of variety that still exists, well, exists.

    Open to being wrong and appreciate all the points you made.
    I do not think you are wrong, nor am I right. We have differing perspectives and opinions and it's fun to discuss. I like the back and forth without someone shutting me down or just trying to prove me wrong. Thank you!

    The 90's on paper is pretty repetitive.. BUT those shows on tape.. especially some of the early 90's are radically different night to night.. Or even the famed winter 98 tour.. Short sets on paper.. Mostly the same 20 plus songs for the tour.. But there was something electric going on, besides Tim guesting,

    Similar to Grateful Dead.. I mean their early days were radically different night to night, but if you look at the Europe 72 tour.. sets are very similar night to night.. Mostly repeats every show or every other show... BUT they really set the bar for how to change things up.

    I really DID except it after Boyd left and Buddy joined. I gave them 2 full years to get him up to speed and comfortable with the band.. I was honestly surprised at how well he fit in and just ran with it.. Gorge 2018 was incredible!

    But now... we supposedly have a new album coming out.. they've had a ton of down time solo and together.. AND had the opportunity to try and change things up.. Much like someone posted that the beginning of 2020 looked really like it was going to be a fun year... Typically those random 2 night stands or festival type shows ARE The predictable standard set...

    It set up an expectation that things could have been different to start this tour... I don't think being a fan since 1997 removes from from having high expectations... even though YES other bands have their standard set and other bands can play 13 nights with no repeats no problem..
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:18 PM   #136
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

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    Well, because you won't be as burnt out as some of the folks here clearly are. Which is understandable to me!

    As of now, I'm seeing DMB for the first time in 20 years on September 26th (only because we're playing the same festival - AND I'm missing Metallica in Louisville that evening to see it.)

    I can tell you with absolute certainty that I will not care if they play whatever songs people are tired of on this forum. Shake Me, Why I Am, Billies, Satellite, Ants, Watchtower, whatever. I will even tolerate a 10 minute "Stay," which has been my least favorite DMB song since BTCS.

    Maybe everyone needs a 20 year live break?
    If you left a relationship due to being bored with sex and tried it again 20 years later with that same expectation... do you think it would be better? They pretty much do the same thing but have a couple little surprises in the middle...
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:21 PM   #137
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    I think my approach will be to remove these expectations and stop following the sets every night until my shows... If I go in expecting

    Dont Drink
    Everyday
    Shake Me
    You Might Die Trying
    Satellite
    Crash
    Sweet
    New song
    Grey Street
    So Damn Lucky
    Minarets
    So Much To Say
    ASTB
    Too Much
    If Only
    New Song
    Stay
    Ants
    ------------------
    Windows
    Why I Am


    I will just surrender...
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:24 PM   #138
    clintmwells
     
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by #41#36#40 View Post
    If you left a relationship due to being bored with sex and tried it again 20 years later with that same expectation... do you think it would be better? They pretty much do the same thing but have a couple little surprises in the middle...
    Sex after 20 years (or 20 days) would, indeed, be better! But then again I'm (happily) married with a 6 year old.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 02:25 PM   #139
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

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    Originally Posted by clintmwells View Post
    Sex after 20 years (or 20 days) would, indeed, be better! But then again I'm (happily) married with a 6 year old.
    Lol.. Yes. We're just saying theoretically speaking.. I'm also not saying you have not been having sex for 20 years.. You've had plenty.. and good sex.. but just in relationships like Metallica were it's awesome.. and you get to yell like James Hetfield... and then you go back to the other one from 20 years ago and just hope it's as good as you remember... But instead they play Shake Me Like A Monkey and Stay in the encore..

    Last edited by #41#36#40; 07-26-2021 at 02:27 PM.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 03:18 PM   #140
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    I remember at Bonnaroo in 09 when Metallica headlined and first thing out of Jamesí mouth was ďweíre only playing old shit, because thatís what you want to hear!Ē Thus, the crowded went nuts and they played Killíem All in entirety. Was great. Dave definitely does have a formulaic template that it seems over the past few tours that he plays with. I go to my one and only local show expecting what the majority echoes here with just looking for a night out. Cheers to DMB 4.0, cause thatís all we gonna get until the end.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 03:44 PM   #141
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Thanks for the perspective and input, all. Clintmwells- crush it in Franklin. I'm enjoying this discussion and am just grateful to be able to see them live this summer.

    I started this thread after listening to both shows, not something I did too often in 2019 (when I mostly just checked the sets the next day). Hoping to be able to tune in to some more upcoming shows and see what other jams they switch up, and what rarities come outta the bag. During the pre Raleigh interview, Fonzi did mention that he requested recordings minus the bass lines from their engineers, and he would play along and see how he could switch things up. Hearing that shit is pretty cool
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    Old 07-26-2021, 03:51 PM   #142
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Royal123 View Post
    I remember at Bonnaroo in 09 when Metallica headlined and first thing out of Jamesí mouth was ďweíre only playing old shit, because thatís what you want to hear!Ē Thus, the crowded went nuts and they played Killíem All in entirety. Was great. Dave definitely does have a formulaic template that it seems over the past few tours that he plays with. I go to my one and only local show expecting what the majority echoes here with just looking for a night out. Cheers to DMB 4.0, cause thatís all we gonna get until the end.
    Same, I don't travel nearly as much as I used to. This year I'm just going to our local show here in Arkansas. DMB 4.0 is all it's ever going to be, so might as well enjoy what we got.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 04:12 PM   #143
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

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    Originally Posted by ISawTheBridge10 View Post
    I guess I'll just never understand setlist analysis and actually making judgements of show quality based on it. Especially if you're not there. Just a complete waste of time.

    Concerts and performances are something that need to be experienced. Your mind and body feed off the energy of the crowd and the environment. A You and Me with your buddies in Charlotte after passing around a joint is not the same as a You and Me at Alpine after having beers with your spouse.

    It's like reading the Wikipedia entry of a movie and saying "wow that movie sucked." If you can make a judgement of experience by simply reading a setlist, then there's actually no point in ever attending a concert again.
    Treating DMB like a fantasy football league has always puzzled me. Well said.
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    Last edited by seanbrutus; 07-26-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 04:30 PM   #144
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TurboPGT View Post
    they literally sound the worst they have sounded in a long time, because every day that goes by we get further away from the last time they sounded good, so now every day is the worst theyíve ever sounded.





    I'm listening to a bunch of stuff from the two shows on a drive back from Maine, they sound absolutely great with the exception of Buddy's organ here and there. There isn't a way to quantify the degree to which my hatred of the full band sound the last several years that BT was with them has changed for the better, I like what they are doing more than I would have thought possible in 2016.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 04:33 PM   #145
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by seanbrutus View Post
    Treating DMB like a fantasy football league has always puzzled me. Well said.
    Because some fans care more about the songs than how fucked up you can get with the boys.

    Can't believe this even needs to be explained, but here we are...
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    Old 07-26-2021, 04:49 PM   #146
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    Some more data:

    Of the 38 songs played, 23 (61%) had 10 or more plays in the 2019 summer tour (46 shows). 8 songs (21%) had more 20 or more plays in the 2019 summer tour.

    Of the 38 songs played, 23 (61%) have been played 20 or more times across the last 2 summer tours (2018 & 2019) combined (103 shows). 15 (39%) had been played 30 or more times across the last 2 summer tours. 10 songs (26%) had less than 10 plays across the last 2 summer tours. SUAD, Sweet, and If Only had 0 plays across the last 2 summer tours - SUAD was played twice in 2020, but I'm only counting the last 2 full summer tours for comparison.

    23 of the songs (61%) over the first two night were played in at-least 20% of the shows across the last 2 summer tours. Bayou, DDTW, and DYR have been played at more than 50% of the shows over the last 2 summer tours.
    Those are flawed %'s in your data. The denominator is 44 for songs played (or 43 if you don't count Kill the Preacher). You cant omit the new songs as songs played just because they dont fit your "stale sets" narrative, they are by definition "new songs" and help in freshening up the setlist.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 05:01 PM   #147
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snake911 View Post
    Those are flawed %'s in your data. The denominator is 44 for songs played (or 43 if you don't count Kill the Preacher). You cant omit the new songs as songs played just because they dont fit your "stale sets" narrative, they are by definition "new songs" and help in freshening up the setlist.
    How often were the new songs played in 2018 and 2019?
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    Old 07-26-2021, 05:25 PM   #148
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snake911 View Post
    Those are flawed %'s in your data. The denominator is 44 for songs played (or 43 if you don't count Kill the Preacher). You cant omit the new songs as songs played just because they dont fit your "stale sets" narrative, they are by definition "new songs" and help in freshening up the setlist.
    I should have clarified - I used 38 songs (omitting the 3 new tracks, along with Preacher, the PM tease, and PNP) as that is also what Antiramieís post used

    The purpose was to compare the tracks from the catalog to prior tour plays - omitting the new songs allows for that comparison (they did not exist in the catalog in the prior 2 tours). It doesnít really change the key takeaways. The majority of songs played this weekend were in heavy rotation the last two tours.
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    Old 07-26-2021, 05:36 PM   #149
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Going to ATL show tomorrow with my girls, their 1st, my 40th! Anyone who went to Charlotte or Raleigh that can say what time they started being no opener ?
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    Old 07-26-2021, 05:44 PM   #150
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    Re: the (2021) summer so far

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antiramie View Post
    Because some fans care more about the songs than how fucked up you can get with the boys.

    Can't believe this even needs to be explained, but here we are...
    I'm a musician, I am usually reasonably sober for shows outside of a beer or two. Don't @ me with that bullshit. I still think it's dumb. People can enjoy things how they want, but I'm just there to see the music and enjoy the performances. Sure there are songs I may want over others, but pouring over stats and then leaving a show disappointed cause you wanted a show to be something it never was going to be is just weird to me. My point still stands. Maybe don't assume things about me and my concert habits.
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    Last edited by seanbrutus; 07-26-2021 at 05:47 PM.
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