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Old 08-13-2017, 11:18 AM   #39151
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Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Climb2safety View Post
On one level yes. Obviously there's only one side he should be on but him implying both were at fault is completely weak imo.

If he truely believes these alt right people were justified tho at least come out and say it.
I mean, we did just have a dude shoot up a politician not too long ago. Individuals (important to note) on both sides do dumb, heinous shit. Antifa has been doing some awful things to innocent people for a bit as well and I would never use that to classify anyone (for example in here) as one of them. This rally, or whatever it was, was ridiculous and some loser did a terrible thing. So yeah, there are many levels in which this needs to stop. I'm sure you're implying his tweet wasn't intended in that manner, but I don't assume to speak for other people and their intents. I do agree in calling a spade a spade, though. Similar to after Orlando (though that was far worse)
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  • Old 08-13-2017, 11:18 AM   #39152
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    The amount of people in here trying to rationalize and normalize white supremacy while at the same time blaming the counterprotesters is fucking disgusting. Totally fucking disgusting.

    How much was this amount? I didn't really back read, but I didn't see anyone trying to rationalize the viewpoint of white supremacy.

    Most of the discussion I've seen is determining what the best course of action in making this go away.

    I can tell you they feed on feeling opposed. It's what helps them stir up this "well they got violent first now it's time to respond" group think. The "nobody paid attention so we need to ramp it is" rhetoric is something I've never seen them employ. Maybe they would. Maybe it'd be their only option, but what I know about human nature tells me it wouldn't be as effective as having oppositiom that engages in violence with them.

    And to clear it up again, white supremacy is wrong. Counter protesting wasn't wrong from a moral perspective. I just don't think it was productive for the ends 99.9% of us are trying to reach.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:19 AM   #39153
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Both sides showed up with sticks, shields and helmets looking to fight. I'd say both sides are to blame for the fighting in the streets.


    The car strike? Yea, that's one sided and I hope that piece of shit rots in prison for the rest of his life.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:23 AM   #39154
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I do agree that counter-protesting can be important though. When I think of that, I think of people showing up to counter the Westboro shit bags with signs of love (or Rick Rolling them, which was the best counter-protest ever.) What I watched on CNN yesterday was a gang fight though.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:24 AM   #39155
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    People saying that counter-protesting isn't productive is baffling to me.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:25 AM   #39156
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I didn't see anything productive yesterday. I saw morons fighting with sticks wearing gas masks and go pros.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:26 AM   #39157
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrashDMB237 View Post
    Who exactly would the white supremacists be scoring points with if they lost a few of their own to violent left protesters? Who sympathizes with white supremacists other than white supremacists? I dont think people are sitting around on the fence about whether or not they hate blacks and jews waiting for one news story to push them over the edge.

    But there goes silly snowflake, SJW, antifa me thinking with my heart again.



    Well yea of course. He's a very weak man with no moral standards and no balls. Also surrounded by idiots but not idiots dumb enough to let him take the side of the fucking Nazis. Publicly at least.
    I think you vastly underestimate the number of people in this country who aren't white supremacists that view the left as "the enemy" and will pretty much support anything that opposes it.

    Also, you don't think all of this media attention makes them more recognized? This in turn will make it easier for them to radicalize and recruit. It's how terrorist type groups work. Just let these fat virgins have their little rally, ignore it or mock it from afar and move on.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:30 AM   #39158
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    I didn't see anything productive yesterday. I saw morons fighting with sticks wearing gas masks and go pros.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that what they did yesterday was dumb, but from perusing it seems as though a lot of people in here feel like counter-protesting is pointless in general. History has proven that it isn't.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:38 AM   #39159
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Bunch of victim blamers.

    They shouldn't have been wearing that shirt.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:52 AM   #39160
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    I didn't see anything productive yesterday. I saw morons fighting with sticks wearing gas masks and go pros.


    There was plenty of “productive” counter-protesting occurring, it’s just not what was shown on tv. Those fighting that way were the minority of those that showed up to oppose the supremacists.

    I guess to be fair there very well could’ve been plenty of non-violent protestors on both sides, but I don’t feel like giving that other side any benefit of the doubt here.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:52 AM   #39161
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    https://whsec1.davematthewsband.com

    "08.12.17
    From Dave Matthews Band
    We are all disgusted by the acts of racist, hate-filled terrorism in our hometown this weekend. Like so many our hearts are broken. Our thoughts go out to the families and victims of these unbelievable acts. This is not the Charlottesville we know and love. This town has grown from its sometimes great but often difficult history and is marching toward an inclusive future. This murderous act and those who incited it are not what we aspire to be. We will work tirelessly, hand-in-hand with our community to help one another so we can all heal from this sickening display of horror. Hate speech disguised as free speech is cowardly and shameful. Such speech gives permission to the murderous crimes we witnessed today. There is nothing pure, acceptable, or philosophical about Nazism, or racism masked as heritage.

    The multicultural tapestry that is America must come together, acknowledge our very difficult but remarkable history. We must move away from the racist and ignorant elements of our past toward an inclusive, kinder, more intelligent future."
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:52 AM   #39162
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kydmb99 View Post
    I think you vastly underestimate the number of people in this country who aren't white supremacists that view the left as "the enemy" and will pretty much support anything that opposes it.

    Also, you don't think all of this media attention makes them more recognized? This in turn will make it easier for them to radicalize and recruit. It's how terrorist type groups work. Just let these fat virgins have their little rally, ignore it or mock it from afar and move on.
    Will have to agree to disagree because I can never ever ever agree that the best course of action when it comes to a bunch of white supremacists spewing hate and vitriol is to just let them be.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 11:55 AM   #39163
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kydmb99 View Post
    I think you vastly underestimate the number of people in this country who aren't white supremacists that view the left as "the enemy" and will pretty much support anything that opposes it.

    Also, you don't think all of this media attention makes them more recognized? This in turn will make it easier for them to radicalize and recruit. It's how terrorist type groups work. Just let these fat virgins have their little rally, ignore it or mock it from afar and move on.
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:01 PM   #39164
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I can only assume the_donald is focused on liberal hypocrisy and fake antifa stories, but I'm too afraid to check
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    Quote:
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:08 PM   #39165
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    The Great Irony:

    The same people that call out silent majority Muslims for not publicly ridding themselves of extremists, refuse to actively cull the White Nationalist extemists that very publicly say they are part of your party and your affiliations.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:11 PM   #39166
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tiduwho View Post
    The Great Irony:

    The same people that call out silent majority Muslims for not publicly ridding themselves of extremists, refuse to actively cull the White Nationalist extemists that very publicly say they are part of your party and your affiliations.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:18 PM   #39167
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BruceW View Post
    There was plenty of “productive” counter-protesting occurring, it’s just not what was shown on tv. Those fighting that way were the minority of those that showed up to oppose the supremacists.

    I guess to be fair there very well could’ve been plenty of non-violent protestors on both sides, but I don’t feel like giving that other side any benefit of the doubt here.

    Fair enough, and I purposely worded my post as "I didn't see" to allow for the possibility that it was occurring.


    I have no real issue with those who showed up simply to counter the hate with positive messages with no interest in violence. The people I'm condemning are the ones who showed up in battle armor looking for the fight that they got.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:18 PM   #39168
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tiduwho View Post
    The Great Irony:

    The same people that call out silent majority Muslims for not publicly ridding themselves of extremists, refuse to actively cull the White Nationalist extemists that very publicly say they are part of your party and your affiliations.
    they don't like muslims. this isn't difficult to understand
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    Quote:
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:19 PM   #39169
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tiduwho View Post
    The Great Irony:

    The same people that call out silent majority Muslims for not publicly ridding themselves of extremists, refuse to actively cull the White Nationalist extemists that very publicly say they are part of your party and your affiliations.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:24 PM   #39170
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thebridge15 View Post
    they don't like muslims. this isn't difficult to understand
    I don't think he said it was difficult to understand. Just that it's very ironic. And while it is very ironic, it's not surprising at all because like you said, they are just shitty people that hate Muslims.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:24 PM   #39171
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    This Has become so politicized it's sad.

    Horrible what happened yesterday but at the same time you don't see the media doing story after story about inner city homicides. Specifically in Chicago where over 400 people have been murdered in 2017. No one mentions it. A blind eye is turned to it. But now we have a story like Cville and its all you see.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:39 PM   #39172
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    To the bold: Do you think indentured servitude still has ramifications today?

    Second: I've seen this brought up multiple times, and it's the only reason why I'm bringing it up, but why are we comparing protesting with rape? Seems unnecessarily hyperbolic.
    Second point first: you and Fromthemorning can blame victims all you want, it doesn't make you correct or effective. Sorry you don't see murder victims as comparable to rape victims. I'm not sure if that's on me to clarify for you.

    To the first point, yes. The indentured servitude and share cropper economics have had lasting impacts on people of all races. And, black people have suffered more consistently, and in more ways beyond economic oppression, than other groups have historically. The best Trick ever created by a power structure was to get middle and low income whites, and middle and low income non-whites, to view each other as adversaries.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:49 PM   #39173
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
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    Second point first: you and Fromthemorning can blame victims all you want, it doesn't make you correct or effective. Sorry you don't see murder victims as comparable to rape victims. I'm not sure if that's on me to clarify for you.

    To the first point, yes. The indentured servitude and share cropper economics have had lasting impacts on people of all races. And, black people have suffered more consistently, and in more ways beyond economic oppression, than other groups have historically. The best Trick ever created by a power structure was to get middle and low income whites, and middle and low income non-whites, to view each other as adversaries.
    Alright, I see where this is going. The comparison is just not even worth making. My posts in here speak for themselves. I never once blamed any of the victims, but here we go into "you don't think the same way as me therefore you're the evil one" diatribe. So intellectually weak and annoying. Believe what you'd like.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:49 PM   #39174
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    Quote:
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    it really doesn't matter what you think of Lee or Sherman, or what their motives were. The very basic fundamental fact is they seceded from the Union, becoming traitors, and led armies against the United States of America.
    Sherman was no traitor nor did he ever take up arms against the United States. Quite the opposite actually, he was likely the ablest field commander on the Union side, did damn good as general in charge of the Army and could likely have won the Presidency if he had any interest in politics.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:52 PM   #39175
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    Fair enough, and I purposely worded my post as "I didn't see" to allow for the possibility that it was occurring.


    I have no real issue with those who showed up simply to counter the hate with positive messages with no interest in violence. The people I'm condemning are the ones who showed up in battle armor looking for the fight that they got.
    The point that violence only breeds more violence is a good one. And the vast majority on counter protests were non-violent. The antifa nut jobs don't represent the progressive left. Antifa has the same message as the extreme right "they started it so we hit them". Pretty weak message.

    The group of clergy and their supporters from many many different denominations and religions, holding hands and singing songs to drown out the hateful slogans of rifle toting neo-nazis? That's how you counter-protest. Be an example of love and togetherness for the world to see.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 12:53 PM   #39176
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chadizzy1 View Post
    https://whsec1.davematthewsband.com

    "08.12.17
    From Dave Matthews Band
    We are all disgusted by the acts of racist, hate-filled terrorism in our hometown this weekend. Like so many our hearts are broken. Our thoughts go out to the families and victims of these unbelievable acts. This is not the Charlottesville we know and love. This town has grown from its sometimes great but often difficult history and is marching toward an inclusive future. This murderous act and those who incited it are not what we aspire to be. We will work tirelessly, hand-in-hand with our community to help one another so we can all heal from this sickening display of horror. Hate speech disguised as free speech is cowardly and shameful. Such speech gives permission to the murderous crimes we witnessed today. There is nothing pure, acceptable, or philosophical about Nazism, or racism masked as heritage.

    The multicultural tapestry that is America must come together, acknowledge our very difficult but remarkable history. We must move away from the racist and ignorant elements of our past toward an inclusive, kinder, more intelligent future."
    And if anything or anyone is a symbol of this in Charlottesville, it's DMB.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 01:00 PM   #39177
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    Alright, I see where this is going. The comparison is just not even worth making. My posts in here speak for themselves. I never once blamed any of the victims, but here we go into "you don't think the same way as me therefore you're the evil one" diatribe. So intellectually weak and annoying. Believe what you'd like.
    Correct you did not, the other guy with a similar post did. I take back the blame the victim remark, and apologize for conflating your question with someone else's statements. For the rest of it, you asked a question "why does protest compare to rape", it doesn't. The comparison is rape and murder, which I don't think is hyperbolic.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 01:07 PM   #39178
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    kid i went to school with was in the crowd. this kid used to step on my feet in the hallway and push me over, among many things. glad he was outed as a Nazi.

    http://turtleboysports.com/white-nat...famous-racist/
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    Old 08-13-2017, 01:08 PM   #39179
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gonz085 View Post
    I mean, we did just have a dude shoot up a politician not too long ago. Individuals (important to note) on both sides do dumb, heinous shit. Antifa has been doing some awful things to innocent people for a bit as well and I would never use that to classify anyone (for example in here) as one of them. This rally, or whatever it was, was ridiculous and some loser did a terrible thing. So yeah, there are many levels in which this needs to stop. I'm sure you're implying his tweet wasn't intended in that manner, but I don't assume to speak for other people and their intents. I do agree in calling a spade a spade, though. Similar to after Orlando (though that was far worse)
    One groups message is intolerance and hate. The other is to oppose that message.

    I'll never see the two as equal.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 01:11 PM   #39180
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by aircavmike View Post
    This Has become so politicized it's sad.

    Horrible what happened yesterday but at the same time you don't see the media doing story after story about inner city homicides. Specifically in Chicago where over 400 people have been murdered in 2017. No one mentions it. A blind eye is turned to it. But now we have a story like Cville and its all you see.
    It's not sad and it hasn't become politicized. It's always been political from the start.
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