*Prompter Thread* (NO personal attacks, NO trolling)

[seekupig]

Originally Posted by Benny003

How did you arrive at the conclusion that a lack of personal responsibility is the result of the government providing help to people? Did you consider any other possibilities at all?

I didn't. I started with "So is..." meaning that there is more than the one reason you listed as the problem.

There is a lot room to agree between "having no empathy" and "providing everything for everyone regardless of circumstance".

I don't fall in (or anywhere close to) the universal healthcare, guaranteed job and free college for everyone crowd, but do see the need for some changes. It's not as easy as just blowing up capitalism and implementing socialism the way some of you would like.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by BTBaboon

Correlation sure. I'm not sold on causation. There was a time when loans weren't necessary at all, and it isn't the case that loans only become commonplace (thus driving costs up) because the government stepped in without a catalyst.

Grants dried up, renovations and modernization became required, and technology costs spiked. Private lenders would have just as quickly entered the marketplace (and they eventually did - my graduate loan is private).

But the issue now is what TLP stated - we are where we are. Controls are needed to mitigate some bigger issues. Because you certainly can't pull the rug out under this one without some pretty dire economic consequences.

If it were up to me I'd put a complete stop to government loans. The indentured servitude of the portion of the population that is supposed to be the most innovative and risk taking is enough evidence for me. I know a guy who is over $200k in debt based off a history major and master in anthropological law. The guy is fucked, and it's not because he never had anyone tell him it's a bad idea. It's insane.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

It’s absolutely not evil. I just don’t think it’s the government’s place to mandate it by force.

I don't totally disagree with this, but there's a lot of things the gov't mandates companies do that probably wouldn't be done otherwise.

I run a club. We have a ton of licenses and this that and the other thing we have to pay for and they add up to pretty substantial amounts of money. But guess what? They make sure our workers keep your food/drinks/bathrooms/etc clean, they keep exits clear and safe in case of emergencies and make sure we have emergency tools like fire extinguishers and defibs, they make sure you know you're safe when you walk in the building, etc etc etc.

So mandating wages keep up with general costs of living doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

[TheLastPig]

Just throwing this in here because it’s hilarious.

[ShotgunDMB]

Marvich a socialist now

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Companies elsewhere debate things like four-day work weeks while most Americans companies figure out how to get around paying people a liveable wage.

Pretty fascinating stuff.

"Quality of life" is a term that only the rich in the US get the luxury to think about and that's the way a very large population of lower-middle class people like it. It baffles me completely, but I think it has something to do with a mentality of contempt for people who are perceived to be lower on the economic hierarchy than they are. They don't want anyone worse off than themselves getting something that they don't think they earned even if it helps out everyone (including themselves).

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Yeah, college is expensive. But the benefit in increased salary over a career makes it one of the best investments out there.

Their value seems to be tanking, hence why masters and graduate degrees are now on the climb. It's only a matter of time. Maybe I'm wrong, just what it looks like to me since the market is near oversaturation. I think businesses would be better off taking a apprenticeship approach straight out of high school and sign these people to long term contracts, we give you two years of training at a low pay to train you and you owe us two more years of service at the actual salary for the position. Would work out since places pretty much have to train people off the bat how to work at their companies anyway.

[mandy18]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Do you think the universities would start favoring students who start in their program in year 1 over the students who are transferring in year 3? In other words, the universities would have to start planning for a large influx of transfers in year 3 of their programs and/or they would have a very small class size for the people in years 1 and 2 at the university because most of the students would be at the community college. That would result in a large drop in income for the universities if their year 1 and 2 classes reduce in size. If community college is required for loans to universities, that would increase demand at community colleges. Would the cost of community college then rise kind of like how university tuition has risen?

If you neglect the arts, I think something could be lost in society. I would probably rather just put class size limits on art degrees. Make them more difficult to get into. Don't stigmatize them.

I mean, I also said to make it free, so I guess that really wouldn't matter ...?

Colleges would have to figure the first part out.
They want to participate in the financial aid program (which they all do) and get federal & state subsidies, then they have to allow transfer students (you know, in my ideal scenario world where this is never going to happen anyway).

I'm sorry, but there's no reason someone should take out $50,000 in loans to get a philosophy degree. I'm not saying neglect it; people still get exposed to it through electives. But, I just don't agree with taking out a loan you will have an incredibly hard time paying back.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by gonz085

If it were up to me I'd put a complete stop to government loans. The indentured servitude of the portion of the population that is supposed to be the most innovative and risk taking is enough evidence for me. I know a guy who is over $200k in debt based off a history major and master in anthropological law. The guy is fucked, and it's not because he never had anyone tell him it's a bad idea. It's insane.

Unless that guy has a complete lack of social skills....he is highly employable in this economy.

[TheLastPig]

Originally Posted by Benny003

"Quality of life" is a term that only the rich in the US get the luxury to think about and that's the way a very large population of lower-middle class people like it. It baffles me completely, but I think it has something to do with a mentality of contempt for people who are perceived to be lower on the economic hierarchy than they are. They don't want anyone worse off than themselves getting something that they don't think they earned even if it helps out everyone (including themselves).

The "I worked my ass off to make more money so fuck them for getting anything" mentality is a problem.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by Benny003

"Quality of life" is a term that only the rich in the US get the luxury to think about and that's the way a very large population of lower-middle class people like it. It baffles me completely, but I think it has something to do with a mentality of contempt for people who are perceived to be lower on the economic hierarchy than they are. They don't want anyone worse off than themselves getting something that they don't think they earned even if it helps out everyone (including themselves).

After you have enough money to keep debt collectors at bay, any extra income has no effect on well being, there are diminishing returns. This is such a strange outlook.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Marvich a socialist now

Nah, mixed capitalist.

But I still feel a need to call out batshit crazy posts like "socialism is teh devil and capitalism is unicorns and kittens"

[seekupig]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Yeah, college is expensive. But the benefit in increased salary over a career makes it one of the best investments out there.

Until everyone has one. Then it has the value the a HS diploma does currently. Then what? Free grad school?

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Unless that guy has a complete lack of social skills....he is highly employable in this economy.

Sure, but it will take him 20 years to be debt free.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by seekupig

I didn't. I started with "So is..." meaning that there is more than the one reason you listed as the problem.

There is a lot room to agree between "having no empathy" and "providing everything for everyone regardless of circumstance".

I don't fall in (or anywhere close to) the universal healthcare, guaranteed job and free college for everyone crowd, but do see the need for some changes. It's not as easy as just blowing up capitalism and implementing socialism the way some of you would like.

It's a good thing that we have many examples where these socialist experiments have been used around the world to positive effect. So it's not like we have to completely try something unknown to mankind. Surely we're smart enough to implement smart ways of inducing some socialist policies into our country without blowing everything up.

[BTBaboon]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Nah, mixed capitalist.

But I still feel a need to call out batshit crazy posts like "socialism is teh devil and capitalism is unicorns and kittens"

If anything, Kittens are the socialists ones.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

I don't totally disagree with this, but there's a lot of things the gov't mandates companies do that probably wouldn't be done otherwise.

I run a club. We have a ton of licenses and this that and the other thing we have to pay for and they add up to pretty substantial amounts of money. But guess what? They make sure our workers keep your food/drinks/bathrooms/etc clean, they keep exits clear and safe in case of emergencies and make sure we have emergency tools like fire extinguishers and defibs, they make sure you know you're safe when you walk in the building, etc etc etc.

So mandating wages keep up with general costs of living doesn't seem too far-fetched to me.

Do you run the club or do the licenses run the club? Last I checked, lincenses couldn't make sure the bathroom is clean. It's just a piece of paper.

[ShotgunDMB]

Socialism mooches off the fruits of calitalism. Same way those that benefit from socialist programs mooch off the productive citizems. Shitty philosophy. Weak societies who cant defend themselves and are easy targets for radicals. Weak national identities, very secular, low birth rates. America much too strong, vibrant and religious to ever go down that road completely

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by gonz085

Their value seems to be tanking, hence why masters and graduate degrees are now on the climb. It's only a matter of time. Maybe I'm wrong, just what it looks like to me since the market is near oversaturation. I think businesses would be better off taking a apprenticeship approach straight out of high school and sign these people to long term contracts, we give you two years of training at a low pay to train you and you owe us two more years of service at the actual salary for the position. Would work out since places pretty much have to train people off the bat how to work at their companies anyway.

I correlate the shift toward masters/phd more with the need for more advanced skills in this economy....tech, big data, healthcare, etc.

I also think that 18 year olds have very little place in the "real world." It's just a function of maturity. Undergrad is where you learn to be a well rounded human being and prove you're actually going to turn into an adult and are able to handle the responsibilities that come with it.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by Benny003

It's a good thing that we have many examples where these socialist experiments have been used around the world to positive effect. So it's not like we have to completely try something unknown to mankind. Surely we're smart enough to implement smart ways of inducing some socialist policies into our country without blowing everything up.

Something worth noting is that many of these countries attained their wealth through capitalist means and are now really spending it via socialism. Which is nice while the money is around, but the migrant crisis may have a severe impact on that. Also funny that these economies reside in area where the culture and people are largely homogenous. Are we striving for that too?

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by BTBaboon

If anything, Kittens are the socialists ones.

Which is why they're always knocking shit off tables. They didn't pay for it, so why would they give a shit. Plus, they know that you'll still give them food, shelter, and replace whatever they just knocked off the table.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by seekupig

Until everyone has one. Then it has the value the a HS diploma does currently. Then what? Free grad school?

I have no idea what any of this means.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by mandy18

I mean, I also said to make it free, so I guess that really wouldn't matter ...?

Colleges would have to figure the first part out.
They want to participate in the financial aid program (which they all do) and get federal & state subsidies, then they have to allow transfer students (you know, in my ideal scenario world where this is never going to happen anyway).

I'm sorry, but there's no reason someone should take out $50,000 in loans to get a philosophy degree. I'm not saying neglect it; people still get exposed to it through electives. But, I just don't agree with taking out a loan you will have an incredibly hard time paying back.

To the bold, if you reduce the number of people admitted to those programs, then you reduce the saturation of the number of people looking for jobs in those areas. That would help the number of people who are admitted find jobs in those fields. I would rather make those programs more exclusive (increase demand in the job market) than stigmatize them to dis-incentivize people from pursuing them.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Socialism mooches off the fruits of calitalism. Same way those that benefit from socialist programs mooch off the productive citizems. Shitty philosophy. Weak societies who cant defend themselves and are easy targets for radicals. Weak national identities, very secular, low birth rates. America much too strong, vibrant and religious to ever go down that road completely

Economies, in 95% of cases, aren't either socialist or capitalist. They are a mix. And those with a higher mix of socialism tend to have higher quality of life.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

I correlate the shift toward masters/phd more with the need for more advanced skills in this economy....tech, big data, healthcare, etc.

I also think that 18 year olds have very little place in the "real world." It's just a function of maturity. Undergrad is where you learn to be a well rounded human being and prove you're actually going to turn into an adult and are able to handle the responsibilities that come with it.

People who leave college now still aren't even mature enough for the real world. Childhood has been extended way beyond it's means. If 18 now is different than say 20 years ago that would correlate to 22 being different as well.

[DMBstandUP1984]

BREAKING via @AP: White House: Trump 'exploring' idea of revoking security clearances of 6 former Obama officials who are Trump critics.

[gonz085]

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

BREAKING via @AP: White House: Trump 'exploring' idea of revoking security clearances of 6 former Obama officials who are Trump critics.

This fucking guy....

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Which is why they're always knocking shit off tables. They didn't pay for it, so why would they give a shit. Plus, they know that you'll still give them food, shelter, and replace whatever they just knocked off the table.

Cats are fucking terrible. with the exception of barn cats.

[kydmb99]

Backread yesterday’s circle jerk after my accurate post that the best countries to live in are all highly capitalist. If you want a capitalist country with more social programs, fine. But that isn’t democratic socialism. Literally took me 15 minutes reading their platform online to realize that.

[BTBaboon]

Tony Podesta NOT among 5 immunized witnesses to testify against Paul Manafort, as Tucker Carlson had originally claimed

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-manafort.html

I wonder when Fox News will make their correction.