*Prompter Thread* (NO personal attacks, NO trolling)

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

It's simple. There are people out there with conditions. Conditions that can worsen if you don't live the right lifestyle. Some decide to take care of themselves and some don't. The people that don't are obviously going to cost more money to help in the long run.

Right...although you don't have to already have a "condition." If a perfectly healthy 20 year old starts smoking 2 packs day along with a 6 pack of Bud and fast food for every meal, they will end up with some combo of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

It's simple. There are people out there with conditions. Conditions that can worsen if you don't live the right lifestyle. Some decide to take care of themselves and some don't. The people that don't are obviously going to cost more money to help in the long run.

Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?

[Route_2]

Originally Posted by gryspn41

We do the same thing to other governments don't we? Why should we expect anyone else to stay out of ours?

If people paid more attention to the politicians and looked at their own words and voting records then it wouldn't matter who interfered in our elections.

WTF? Let's concede we do it to other countries. Is that supposed to mean that we just rollover and let Russia do it to us without any repercussions or investigations to find out the who/why/what/where and when in order to improve our defenses for next time and hold anyone that aided them accountable? It sounds like that's what you're saying, but you couldn't be saying that because that would be ludicrous.

[MDPrompter]

universal healthcare would make my early retirement easier...that's for sure!

[coldengrey12]

A dated example, but what about someone like Jim Fixx? Health nut and runner. Fucking guy dropped dead of a heart attack at 52. So I still dunno what "the right lifestyle" means.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?

I think the only way of doing it is taxing known bads. Sugar, alcohol, tobacco...gray area on what evidence you need to add something to the list, but I think those 3 would go a long way to paying for universal care.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?

Your doctor. This question serious?

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

A dated example, but what about someone like Jim Fixx? Health nut and runner. Fucking guy dropped dead of a heart attack at 52. So I still dunno what "the right lifestyle" means.

yeah, but now your talking about the tails. Lets keep focused on the middle 90%...not the 5% on each end. There are people that can completely abstain from sugar, alcohol, and tobacco, and still die of cancer or heart attack at 50. There's also people that smoke/drink/eat like shit and live to 90. But those are the extremes. Let's focus on the middle.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Your doctor. This question serious?

I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

yeah, but now your talking about the tails. Lets keep focused on the middle 90%...not the 5% on each end. There are people that can completely abstain from sugar, alcohol, and tobacco, and still die of cancer or heart attack at 50. There's also people that smoke/drink/eat like shit and live to 90. But those are the extremes. Let's focus on the middle.

It sounds like your system wants to penalize those people monetarily.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Right...although you don't have to already have a "condition." If a perfectly healthy 20 year old starts smoking 2 packs day along with a 6 pack of Bud and fast food for every meal, they will end up with some combo of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

Right. I'm more of less talking about what happens when you find out about your condition. Once you are diagnosed with something like diabetes you have a choice to make. You can improve your lifestyle or keep just shoving what you want down your throat. A person who makes the right decision is going to be infinitely less expensive to maintain health care wise.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.

Exactly. Thank you.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Right. I'm more of less talking about what happens when you find out about your condition. Once you are diagnosed with something like diabetes you have a choice to make. You can improve your lifestyle or keep just shoving what you want down your throat. A person who makes the right decision is going to be infinitely less expensive to maintain health care wise.

I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.

[MDPrompter]

you could also provide tax credits for passing certain fitness challenges...running a mile < 8 minutes, swimming a mile, etc. but that's hard to implement. not sure if overhead would cover cost savings from behavioral change

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.

With universal health care you probably don't right?

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

It sounds like your system wants to penalize those people monetarily.

no not at all. I want universal care. I just want to tax the shit out of things that directly contribute to people becoming unhealthy bc of poor personal choices.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.

but you're talking about others paying for their poor choices.

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

With universal health care you probably don't right?

That's why I think we need universal + sin tax on shit we know drives up medical expenses and makes us unhealthy.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.

I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.

I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?

Under my plan...no. That's absolutely their choice.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.



I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?

They can do whatever they want. I'm just saying I don't wanna pay for it. If the guy with the shot liver wants to drink until he needs a transplant go ahead. If the diabetic wants to pound cake and cookies and ignore their meds until they need limbs cut off have at it. This is America. Do what you want. This is also why universal can't be a thing though.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

They can do whatever they want. I'm just saying I don't wanna pay for it. If the guy with the shot liver wants to drink until he needs a transplant go ahead. If the diabetic wants to pound cake and cookies and ignore their meds until they need limbs cut off have at it. This is America. Do what you want. This is also why universal can't be a thing though.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but at least you're intellectually consistent.

[MDPrompter]

But ricky - you're already paying for it today.

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

But ricky - you're already paying for it today.

Obviously and I'm not a fan of it. I don't see universal health care improving that situation though. Do you?

[Arby]

Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by Arby

Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

Care to add some detail? Not sure what your point is here

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by Arby

Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

You will live as the government tells you to live, emotional flesh sack.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by mdmarvich

Care to add some detail? Not sure what your point is here

Maybe I skimmed thru too quickly but it seems like the argument from the last page or so is just a miscommunication on one word.

EDIT: post 30002?

[MDPrompter]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Obviously and I'm not a fan of it. I don't see universal health care improving that situation though. Do you?

Honestly I don't think it will impact it either way. I also dont think obscene sin taxes will much impact choices. BUT they would raise a shit ton of money, and the majority of that money will come from people making poor health decisions most often. And I think there would be savings w/ universal from overall administration costs, drug prices, and savings from preventative care versus waiting for mild issues to turn into emergencies.