Ants Podcast 99: The Batson Sessions - Episode Discussion

[Dannyyankou]

Originally Posted by ForkInFork

What if I'm positive that something the band did was a fresh turd, does that count as positivity?

It only applies to definition 2 of positive from the Oxford Dictionary, not definition 3

[drop2d]

Matt - thank you for bringing up the fact that they were playing stuff from LWS outside of venues in the summer 2000. I had asked several people if they remembered it and no one could. I was beginning to think I dreamed it up!

I always wondered if they distributed discs to local radio stations for that. I thought sure that WBCN-Boston had some involvement with the Foxboro show... but when I asked Cali he didn't remember it. Which just added to me thinking I was nuts.

[grilldanmo]

It’s lame hearing an exchange where someone dismisses an album and most of its songs as “garbage”. Short sighted and unsupported statements aren’t aspects of any decent debate. Stating opinion as fact is the modern hobgoblin of the little mind. It’s right up there with dismissing facts that don’t confirm, or conform to, your bias(es)...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by maxatlof

It's essentially pointless to try and have a discussion with Matt these days regarding anything to do with CT, and since a huge chunk of these songs appear on CT it was inevitable that this conversation was going to turn negative. But don't judge all their pods based off just this one. They've got plenty of episodes full of more joy and positive things to say.

Well, I mean, it's probably pointless to have a discussion with me if you insist on changing my mind, yeah. But I'm more than happy to have a discussion about it and hear anyone out. It's just how I am - anything that I care enough to have an opinion about, I'll put in serious time to form a solid opinion. And then, I'm passionate about it. That's all.

Originally Posted by drop2d

Matt - thank you for bringing up the fact that they were playing stuff from LWS outside of venues in the summer 2000. I had asked several people if they remembered it and no one could. I was beginning to think I dreamed it up!

That was a magical, magical time to be a fan of this band. Little things like that that fall by the wayside and are mostly forgotten give me such joy when they're brought back up.

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

It’s lame hearing an exchange where someone dismisses an album and most of its songs as “garbage”. Short sighted and unsupported statements aren’t aspects of any decent debate. Stating opinion as fact is the modern hobgoblin of the little mind. It’s right up there with dismissing facts that don’t confirm, or conform to, your bias(es)...

You can call me a lot of things, but "short sighted" and "unsupported" aren't really applicable as far as my opinions on DMB go. And that's just what they are: opinions. I've literally got 100 episodes chronicling my fanaticism for this band, as well as thousands of posts on this forum. You can disagree with my opinion; I welcome it. But come on dude - I'd like to think I don't come off as flippant or off the cuff on this kind of subject matter - I've spent a ton of time thinking about it.

[clintmwells]

Originally Posted by Matt

But come on dude - I'd like to think I don't come off as flippant or off the cuff on this kind of subject matter - I've spent a ton of time thinking about it.

I'm a fairly new listener and this was easily my takeaway about Matt. I don't agree with many of his hang ups but they are thoughtful and I appreciate them.

[bherd]

To me the Batson tracks revealed the weaknesses in CT to an extent that it made me super frustrated. I think these leaked tracks show how they leave a lot of the better stuff on the cutting room floor and it baffles me. We are 4 months from CT and to be honest I have barely given it a 2nd or 3rd listen the the whole way through. The only tracks that stuck with me were Virginia in the Rain, Again and Again, and COCO. I love those tracks but the rest are just mediocre or worse. Besides those few songs I would easily swap out the rest of the songs for some finished (or maybe unfinished) versions of the Batson Sessions. I want to see DMB do what they are capable of which is putting out an entire album of great music but maybe that time has passed. I really wish they would put out a Lost Dogs album ala Pearl Jam or even better yet as Joe said drop a track a month of old material.

[Chumlee67]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I've always found Joe to be a very positive interlocutor.

I want to hear Joe try to say this word.

[ericvol]

Originally Posted by read1985

This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

It will be my last podcast.

This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.

Agreed, I was about halfway though being like, yo I get it dude you don't like Come Tomorrow, no one cares about that right now.

[grilldanmo]

Originally Posted by Matt

You can call me a lot of things, but "short sighted" and "unsupported" aren't really applicable as far as my opinions on DMB go. And that's just what they are: opinions. I've literally got 100 episodes chronicling my fanaticism for this band, as well as thousands of posts on this forum. You can disagree with my opinion; I welcome it. But come on dude - I'd like to think I don't come off as flippant or off the cuff on this kind of subject matter - I've spent a ton of time thinking about it.

You gave no support of your opinion and made no effort to couch it as such. You called CT garbage as well a few specific songs. Saying you don't like or enjoy something is a statement that I can understand and respect. Calling work you don't like garbage and because you don't like it extrapolating that Dave is being lazy. I'll stick with short sighted and unsupported until something other wise is given.

[ExistenceNow]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

You gave no support of your opinion and made no effort to couch it as such. You called CT garbage as well a few specific songs. Saying you don't like or enjoy something is a statement that I can understand and respect. Calling work you don't like garbage and because you don't like it extrapolating that Dave is being lazy. I'll stick with short sighted and unsupported until something other wise is given.

They went over every song on the album track by track on a previous episode when the album came out. There was no need to re-hash that entire discussion for the purposes of the discussion in this podcast.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

You gave no support of your opinion and made no effort to couch it as such. You called CT garbage as well a few specific songs. Saying you don't like or enjoy something is a statement that I can understand and respect. Calling work you don't like garbage and because you don't like it extrapolating that Dave is being lazy. I'll stick with short sighted and unsupported until something other wise is given.

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

They went over every song on the album track by track on a previous episode when the album came out. There was no need to re-hash that entire discussion for the purposes of the discussion in this podcast.

Next podcast, we’ll replay pods 1-101 just so everyone has proper context. It’ll be 187 hours long, our longest episode yet!

[morecornbread!!]

Originally Posted by Cross the ice

Matt's right that the Batson Sessions make CT even worse than it was before. Who would have thought that's possible?

I found myself agreeing more with Joe than I did with Matt, but the points that Matt brought up were great points. Especially when he said that he can't help but view the Batson Sessions with an ugly eye at Come Tomorrow. Listening to the Batson Sessions made me a little sad with Come Tomorrow, just because it showed a little laziness with putting new material on CT.
But overall a great podcast. Looking forward to the next one.

[skiddiet]

making an "album" has clearly proved difficult. Why make full-length albums then? Make smaller releases. Maybe that's too out of the box.

[morecornbread!!]

Originally Posted by skiddiet

making an "album" has clearly proved difficult. Why make full-length albums then? Make smaller releases. Maybe that's too out of the box.

That's what Joe said in the podcast, and I completely agree. Release smaller chunks at different times and keep the fans entertained with new releases more often. I hate waiting 6 years for a release of new material

[Cross the ice]

Originally Posted by morecornbread!!

I found myself agreeing more with Joe than I did with Matt, but the points that Matt brought up were great points. Especially when he said that he can't help but view the Batson Sessions with an ugly eye at Come Tomorrow. Listening to the Batson Sessions made me a little sad with Come Tomorrow, just because it showed a little laziness with putting new material on CT.
But overall a great podcast. Looking forward to the next one.

I hear you. I think Matt was pretty clear that he doesn't know what all goes into record making, and most of us don't. And lazy seems like such a strong word, as Joe pointed out... but I don't know what else to call it. Just think, Dave was in his 30s, and George W. Bush was president when some of that was recorded. All I know is that I have ears and can hear, and CT is not as good as TBS. CT is essentially a disjointed collection of b-sides spanning over a decade. And I like more songs on it than Matt does. I'd be happy with a cohesive album, and somehow a collection of demos from two different sessions with DMB's most infamous (possibly) producer is more cohesive and better.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by morecornbread!!

That's what Joe said in the podcast, and I completely agree. Release smaller chunks at different times and keep the fans entertained with new releases more often. I hate waiting 6 years for a release of new material

I'm for this at this point and not even from the fact the band seems to have trouble putting together a complete album, but it's what bands do now. I mean in 2005 how awesome would it have been to get studio versions of Sugar Will, Crazy-Easy, Joy Ride, Hello Again, Good Good Time and maybe another one or two? 2007 or 08 gotten IDY, Shotgun, Break Free, Kill the King and...Sister I guess. They seem to be writing these songs in small chunks anyways.

[Roose13]

Originally Posted by grilldanmo

You gave no support of your opinion and made no effort to couch it as such. You called CT garbage as well a few specific songs. Saying you don't like or enjoy something is a statement that I can understand and respect. Calling work you don't like garbage and because you don't like it extrapolating that Dave is being lazy. I'll stick with short sighted and unsupported until something other wise is given.

You really just don't understand anything at all, do you...

[morecornbread!!]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

I'm for this at this point and not even from the fact the band seems to have trouble putting together a complete album, but it's what bands do now. I mean in 2005 how awesome would it have been to get studio versions of Sugar Will, Crazy-Easy, Joy Ride, Hello Again, Good Good Time and maybe another one or two? 2007 or 08 gotten IDY, Shotgun, Break Free, Kill the King and...Sister I guess. They seem to be writing these songs in small chunks anyways.

Absolutely. So why not release them in smaller EP type formats? It's what people (and bands) do now. People go on Spotify and stream certain songs. It keeps fans constantly coming back to see if something has been released and when something new is coming out. Would absolutely love if DMB did this.

[ExistenceNow]

I'm not sure releasing music in smaller batches would net us any more, or better, music. I think it'd be just the same stuff, spread out over a longer period of time.

So we get two shitty Come Tomorrow tracks every two months. Yay.

[clintmwells]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

I'm not sure releasing music in smaller batches would net us any more, or better, music. I think it'd be just the same stuff, spread out over a longer period of time.

So we get two shitty Come Tomorrow tracks every two months. Yay.

Here On Out
Virginia in the Rain

Again and Again
Black and Blue Bird

Idea of You
Come On Come On

Sounds pretty good to me!

[ForkInFork]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

I'm not sure releasing music in smaller batches would net us any more, or better, music. I think it'd be just the same stuff, spread out over a longer period of time.

So we get two shitty Come Tomorrow tracks every two months. Yay.

Two new tracks every two months is a 600% improvement in their current release schedule of new tracks, so I would still take that

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

I'm not sure releasing music in smaller batches would net us any more, or better, music. I think it'd be just the same stuff, spread out over a longer period of time.

So we get two shitty Come Tomorrow tracks every two months. Yay.

Well, if they were to record a few songs and release them almost immediately, it would certainly give Dave much less time to fuck with (and ruin) the lyrics

[Cptn. Monkeyman]

I just finally listened to the podcast. Here’s what I have to say about the band’s studio efforts. Their best work in the studio is obviously from 1993-2000. It’s not just that the material in the 90s was their best, but it’s also the most group effort in the studio to make great albums. Everything changed during the 4th LP studio sessions. Those sessions broke the band, and I honestly think they’ve hated working in the studio together ever since.

Everything after that, starting with Everyday, was different. Everyday was obviously Dave and Glenn Ballard essentially creating the album by themselves. Busted Stuff was a quick polishing of the already completed songs from the original Busted Stuff sessions (LWS). Some Devil was literally a Dave solo album. Then you have Stand Up. I’d always heard that Stand Up was the band’s return to form in the studio, where everyone was supposedly involved. Hearing the Sessions that followed up Stand Up, it seems to me that it was just Dave and Batson working together, and adding the band later on in the process. Of course, these “Stand Up 2” sessions were ultimately scrapped, and Dave decided to end the band sometime after.

Now moving along to Rob Cavallo. I know a lot of people don’t agree, but I think Cavallo kind of saved this band with this record. Big Whiskey is the first (and probably last) studio work that I feel like the band actually wanted to be there since the Lillywhite era. There’s a reason why this is/was one of Dave’s favorite records. Obviously after, they try working again with Lillywhite, and although I think they put together a solid follow up album, there’s something about it that they don’t like. And now we see another stalled studio session with Cavallo in 2015, and it takes them an additional 3 years to piece together an album out of it in which they had to revisit the scrapped 06 sessions to finish. I think this is the way this band is most comfortable making records these days.

I don’t think “lazy” is the correct term, Matt, but I totally get why you say that. Since the 90s, with the exception of Big Whiskey, I think this band HATES being in the studio together. They are comfortable making records in the fashion of Come Tomorrow, and I think that comfort is what some are seeing as “laziness”.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Cptn. Monkeyman

I just finally listened to the podcast. Here’s what I have to say about the band’s studio efforts. Their best work in the studio is obviously from 1993-2000. It’s not just that the material in the 90s was their best, but it’s also the most group effort in the studio to make great albums. Everything changed during the 4th LP studio sessions. Those sessions broke the band, and I honestly think they’ve hated working in the studio together ever since.

I don’t think “lazy” is the correct term, Matt, but I totally get why you say that. Since the 90s, with the exception of Big Whiskey, I think this band HATES being in the studio together. They are comfortable making records in the fashion of Come Tomorrow, and I think that comfort is what some are seeing as “laziness”.

That first paragraph explains my feelings just about perfectly. I also think I tried to qualify my "lazy" statement by trying to define the word a bit in this context; as you say, it's probably not a "laziness" as exactly defined, but yeah, there's something about the studio efforts that give off this vibe that "they don't want to be there."

[coldblueice]

Originally Posted by read1985

This was my first ants podcast though I have been a member since 2004. I was really looking for to it.

It will be my last podcast.

This is just my opinion, but this podcast was mostly negative: negative about the last album, negative about Dave's productivity in the studio, negative about the current state of the band in general, etc. There is enough negativity these days. You never know what is really going on with people, and I think Dave and the band have done a wonderful job just staying together and playing as much as they have. I was hoping this would be an insightful, upbeat, celebration of some new, unfinished tracks we were able to hear. Instead the podcast left me discouraged and surprised as how cynical the interlocutors were.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, the interlocutors as much as me, but here's hoping for some positivity and less criticism. Even if you have to look for the positivity and downplay the criticism.

Just the opinions of a long time fan, but first time listener.

i feel you on this. it’s pretty disorienting to hear that Matt guy be so negative on the podcasts, then on top of that be subjected to ExistenceNow’s nonstop BITCHING about Come Tomorrow. i realize not everyone has to like everything DMB does, but they don’t just say it once and move on. it’s hundreds if not thousands of posts, everyday, for months. truly as if they are on a campaign to impugn the band.

and these are moderators on a dmb FAN SITE!!! like... wtf?!?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by coldblueice

i feel you on this. it’s pretty disorienting to hear that Matt guy be so negative on the podcasts, then on top of that be subjected to ExistenceNow’s nonstop BITCHING about Come Tomorrow. i realize not everyone has to like everything DMB does, but they don’t just say it once and move on. it’s hundreds if not thousands of posts, everyday, for months. truly as if they are on a campaign to impugn the band.

and these are moderators on a dmb FAN SITE!!! like... wtf?!?

OMG FANS can have OPINIONS that don't match MINE?!?! like....WTF?!?!?!

Yes, with this website that I've been running for...16 years now, we're on a campaign to impugn the band. Truly.

[coldblueice]

Originally Posted by Matt

OMG FANS can have OPINIONS that don't match MINE?!?! like....WTF?!?!?!

Yes, with this website that I've been running for...16 years now, we're on a campaign to impugn the band. Truly.

i know... i’ve been here from the beginning. but don’t mind my opinion or anything. you keep doin you...

[skoobz314]

So how do we get our hands on this material?

[DaveHead77]

Originally Posted by skoobz314

So how do we get our hands on this material?

YouTube I think. I got mine from DMBFamily of all places via DropBox tho.

[eggsrsweet]

Bump. Pod coming back before the tour?