Walk Around the Moon (album) discussion

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by ben47364

Depends on how complicated the song is and if the song was written with a solo section in mind at all … actually a ton of factors play into it, now that I’m thinking about it. From my experience in the studio and at the level they probably do recording, mixing and mastering, I’d say a 20 second solo could take a ton of time to perfect. If Dave recorded a scratch track for instance but then changed the song when he went to go record the final version of it, that causes redo and delay… what I’d Jeff or buddy decide “nah that won’t work on this right now and they ask to take it out, and so on and so on. I think actually the fastest most efficient way for Dave these days is the current formula because he knows the band will expand on them live anyways. They do what they do in the studio with a ton of different factors involved. I don’t think it’s as simple as “everyone shows up for a long weekend and they crank out an album in 72 hours” that just doesn’t happen with this band anymore.

Yes, having it stretched out over time because of other commitments and schedules and that kind of thing is obviously the case with DMB, I agree. To me that's different than spending 100s of hours in studio.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by madhatter

Dave wrote the songs first, then brought in Carter. Stefan did some stuff remotely, but he wasn't physically in the studio until after Tim & Buddy. Jeff & Rashawn were the last the be in the studio. That all happened in 2020, with the actual studio work in Sept/Oct.

There was some additional stuff done later, but that was the bulk of what they did in the studio.

Which is why I'm not super excited about this. If that's truly the process, it doesn't seem like a cohesive full band effort. Had we gotten this shortly after it was done, it would have been a nice treat for exactly what it was. A little fun thing Dave and the guys did during the pandemic and decided it was good enough to give to the fans.

NOT a full blown studio album which I don't believe was the intent until the label saw new songs, new studio time and said why don't we try to capitalize on this. And then botched it like everything else they've done the last 20 years when it comes to the studio.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by elconguero

Do we know that “they don’t let them” or are we assuming that?

Roi and Boyd, as much smack as people talk about Boyd, were very creative and melodic. Jeff doesn’t seem that way to me. He seems more technical and in your face. Boyd was a dead head and roi a seasoned jazz man.

And the trumpet unless muted is by nature loud. Roi weaved his voice throughout songs. Repeated Dave’s melody, had a sense of humor and Boyd also could do these things although not as consistently good as roi. Jeff just doesn’t have that bone. He is a great sax player but I get tired quickly of what he does in songs and I never felt that way about roi.

This is when people say how great Jeff’s solo albums are. Yeah well that’s his music not Dave’s. He just doesn’t mesh as well with Dave as his own music.

Just my opinion.

I think he's feeling the need to entertain people at a big rock show. I for one loved the extra energy when he was first part of the band. I thought he brought a ton of fun to the songs.

And yes 15 years on he and RR have evolved/devolved a number of times and changed their approach.

Songs like Lying in the Hands of God to me is a good example of what you're speaking of. I love that song, but the "jam" at the end isn't really creative or exciting. Jeff kind of gets in theses ruts where all his solo runs start sounding really similar and lead to this huge blow out at the end. He does this on Grey Street, Seek Up, Raven, etc... Again, I think he is approaching this as needing to entertain, and Dave has approved it or RR or the fans applause. It more or less works. Just one example. It's not bad, it's just not really worthy of chewing on for repeat listens like some of Roi's jams are.

Posthumously, Roi was a subtle genius. He was like Jerry Garcia in that he wasn't really trying to perform or entertain, but explore and create in real time. He'd really get into the heart of the song and that could change on any given night. If he wasn't feeling it, we all knew.

And the interplay with Boyd, especially in the early days, was integral to the unique sound of the band. As they got bigger and played bigger venues even in the early 2000's this started to drop off. It's the biggest thing missing in my opinion from the original band to now.

But I am trying to not compare 32 year old DMB to 7 year old DMB. I really like them right now still, and think they are a top notch live act. They do not compare to what they used to be in anyway. When they attempt that, it comes off as nostalgia or almost sounds like they are covering themselves. I think Dave is highly aware of that and a reason he doesn't want the fiddle back.

Getting more than 40 to 50 regular songs a tour isn't going to happen anymore if it ever did. But you can see them 2 or 3 nights in a row and get that amount of different shows. However, if you see them the next weekend, you're going to get the same thing.

[daspfund22]

Originally Posted by Fpuonpko

I guess I am confused on this point


Break Free obviously has been around the longest so there are clearly several versions nearly double the studio length



Walk around the moon - there is an official released version (streaming) that is 6:17. the studio version is under 5 minutes. That is nearly 2 minutes longer.


Madmans Eyes official version from Fall 2022 is 6:26. The album cut is under 5. Another song nearly 2 minutes longer.

what version are you talking about?

[BTBaboon]

Originally Posted by daspfund22

what version are you talking about?

This one, via SiriusXM: https://dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSet.aspx?id=453089708

Interesting that its debut was the longest version.

[Fpuonpko]

We have a Top 15 hit on our hands!

Today's update -

Top 50 AAA Radio Chart - Madman's Eyes

January 29th - #48 (debut day)
January 30th - #41 (official radio adds day)
January 31st - #30
February 1st - #28
February 2nd - #24
February 3rd - #22
February 4th - #21
February 5th - #17
February 6th - #14

Spins from Top 10 - 110
Spins from Top 5 - 191
Spins from #1 - 346

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by BTBaboon

This one, via SiriusXM: https://dmbalmanac.com/TourShowSet.aspx?id=453089708

Interesting that its debut was the longest version.

The intro to the song and the verses alone is probably 1/2 of that. Dave is just assuming no listener has the patience for an intro to a song anymore or any space that isn't someone singing.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by Fpuonpko

We have a Top 15 hit on our hands!

Today's update -

Top 50 AAA Radio Chart - Madman's Eyes

January 29th - #48 (debut day)
January 30th - #41 (official radio adds day)
January 31st - #30
February 1st - #28
February 2nd - #24
February 3rd - #22
February 4th - #21
February 5th - #17
February 6th - #14

Spins from Top 10 - 110
Spins from Top 5 - 191
Spins from #1 - 346

I find it interesting that Hungersite is in the top 20 and moving up

https://news.iheart.com/featured/charts/triple-a/

[DC Greg]

Originally Posted by BustedStuff2000

I think he's feeling the need to entertain people at a big rock show. I for one loved the extra energy when he was first part of the band. I thought he brought a ton of fun to the songs.

And yes 15 years on he and RR have evolved/devolved a number of times and changed their approach.

Songs like Lying in the Hands of God to me is a good example of what you're speaking of. I love that song, but the "jam" at the end isn't really creative or exciting. Jeff kind of gets in theses ruts where all his solo runs start sounding really similar and lead to this huge blow out at the end. He does this on Grey Street, Seek Up, Raven, etc... Again, I think he is approaching this as needing to entertain, and Dave has approved it or RR or the fans applause. It more or less works. Just one example. It's not bad, it's just not really worthy of chewing on for repeat listens like some of Roi's jams are.

Posthumously, Roi was a subtle genius. He was like Jerry Garcia in that he wasn't really trying to perform or entertain, but explore and create in real time. He'd really get into the heart of the song and that could change on any given night. If he wasn't feeling it, we all knew.

And the interplay with Boyd, especially in the early days, was integral to the unique sound of the band. As they got bigger and played bigger venues even in the early 2000's this started to drop off. It's the biggest thing missing in my opinion from the original band to now.

But I am trying to not compare 32 year old DMB to 7 year old DMB. I really like them right now still, and think they are a top notch live act. They do not compare to what they used to be in anyway. When they attempt that, it comes off as nostalgia or almost sounds like they are covering themselves. I think Dave is highly aware of that and a reason he doesn't want the fiddle back.

Getting more than 40 to 50 regular songs a tour isn't going to happen anymore if it ever did. But you can see them 2 or 3 nights in a row and get that amount of different shows. However, if you see them the next weekend, you're going to get the same thing.

This is a great post. Very spot on.

[anthonysoscia]

I don’t think Jeff or any of the guys are thinking about entertainment. This band has never been like that. It’s always been about serving the music, and it shows. You can watch/read many different interviews with different band members talking how their main goal is serving the music. Jeff particularly is one of the most down to earth musicians out there. I also don’t think anyone in the band is ‘approving’ another’s playing style.

It’s not any deeper than the fact that different players have different voices and express differently. There are sax players even further towards the aggressive/extended technique end of the spectrum.. James Carter, Michael Brecker, Pharoah Sanders, etc.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by anthonysoscia

I don’t think Jeff or any of the guys are thinking about entertainment. This band has never been like that. It’s always been about serving the music, and it shows. You can watch/read many different interviews with different band members talking how their main goal is serving the music. Jeff particularly is one of the most down to earth musicians out there. I also don’t think anyone in the band is ‘approving’ another’s playing style.

It’s not any deeper than the fact that different players have different voices and express differently. There are sax players even further towards the aggressive/extended technique end of the spectrum.. James Carter, Michael Brecker, Pharoah Sanders, etc.

Thought you made a great point the other day about Jeff's ability to play quietly

[anthonysoscia]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

Thought you made a great point the other day about Jeff's ability to play quietly

Oh yeah, thanks, that too

https://youtu.be/E_tEnvVntaw

https://youtu.be/ZX6SsGcNNc0

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by anthonysoscia

I don’t think Jeff or any of the guys are thinking about entertainment. This band has never been like that. It’s always been about serving the music, and it shows. You can watch/read many different interviews with different band members talking how their main goal is serving the music. Jeff particularly is one of the most down to earth musicians out there. I also don’t think anyone in the band is ‘approving’ another’s playing style.

It’s not any deeper than the fact that different players have different voices and express differently. There are sax players even further towards the aggressive/extended technique end of the spectrum.. James Carter, Michael Brecker, Pharoah Sanders, etc.

Jeff has always been in a tough spot. It's impossible to come in and replace an original beloved member in any band. He's done such a great job of playing Roi's parts while not exactly imitating them, and bringing in his own style to the songs.

Hell he's been in the band now almost as long as Roi was!

I didn't exactly mean he's playing specifically for cheers, but these last few years his role has devolved to that of a hired hand IMO. He plays the parts and gets very little creative input on any given night minus a solo or two. It's more or less how every A level act operates, but that is very different from the DMB of even 10 years ago which he was a part of.

I think he or the band in general grew tired of the long sax solos or horn duels that every song kind of fell into there for a few years. They moved on from that sound. He was getting these enormous rounds of applause in 08-10 for jumping into the middle of the stage and just wailing on songs like #41 or Jimi. That led him to believe that's what we always want to hear. Just loud in your face 80's sax solo kind of stuff. I'm exaggerating as he of course can quiet and does beautifully on songs like Lover Lay Down.

But now, Dave or RR is more or less approving the sounds the band is making. They are attempting to keep most songs shorter and tighter, less 10 minute jams, more 1 minute tight grooves with everyone playing at once.

[Fpuonpko]

Still making some good progress!

Today's update -

Top 50 AAA Radio Chart - Madman's Eyes

January 29th - #48 (debut day)
January 30th - #41 (official radio adds day)
January 31st - #30
February 1st - #28
February 2nd - #24
February 3rd - #22
February 4th - #21
February 5th - #17
February 6th - #14
February 7th - #13

Spins from Top 10 - 94
Spins from Top 5 - 166
Spins from #1 - 321

[BTBaboon]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

I find it interesting that Hungersite is in the top 20 and moving up

https://news.iheart.com/featured/charts/triple-a/

Probably the upcoming tour and the onsale of SPAC helping it. Is odd to see it climbing again, the song has been out since April 2022

[bowa36]

gooooose

[Greykitkat41]

Originally Posted by BustedStuff2000

Which is why I'm not super excited about this. If that's truly the process, it doesn't seem like a cohesive full band effort. Had we gotten this shortly after it was done, it would have been a nice treat for exactly what it was. A little fun thing Dave and the guys did during the pandemic and decided it was good enough to give to the fans.

NOT a full blown studio album which I don't believe was the intent until the label saw new songs, new studio time and said why don't we try to capitalize on this. And then botched it like everything else they've done the last 20 years when it comes to the studio.

Perfectly stated. This is my thoughts as well. Should have put it out when it was done, not tamper with it, and try to shoehorn a bunch of other songs onto it to make it a "full band " studio album and promote and tour on it. From everything we know, the entire full band was never in the room all together ever at the same time for this. It was piecemealed.


Renting out a cabin for 2 straight weeks or even less and recording and finishing the entire album right then and there is the only way to make a record worth a damn because that's all an album is---it's a moment in time. Not a bunch of little moments in time edited together years apart. It just doesn't work well for music.

[firedancerchick]

Originally Posted by Greykitkat41

Perfectly stated. This is my thoughts as well. Should have put it out when it was done, not tamper with it, and try to shoehorn a bunch of other songs onto it to make it a "full band " studio album and promote and tour on it. From everything we know, the entire full band was never in the room all together ever at the same time for this. It was piecemealed.


Renting out a cabin for 2 straight weeks or even less and recording and finishing the entire album right then and there is the only way to make a record worth a damn because that's all an album is---it's a moment in time. Not a bunch of little moments in time edited together years apart. It just doesn't work well for music.

I agree with all of this and the prior posts of having this come out right after the pandemic, kind of raw, some road-testing would be a nice treat and something to remember.

What's the last album they put out that was a true effort where they were all together and just focused on the music and emerged with what it was? BTCS? Just curious!

[dmb2much40]

They clearly put a lot of time and effort into getting Big Whiskey right.

I agree these Frankenstein albums using recordings done years apart detracts from the overall listening experience. There are some good individual tracks, but not so good to listen to start to finish.

[Greykitkat41]

Originally Posted by firedancerchick

I agree with all of this and the prior posts of having this come out right after the pandemic, kind of raw, some road-testing would be a nice treat and something to remember.

What's the last album they put out that was a true effort where they were all together and just focused on the music and emerged with what it was? BTCS? Just curious!

I think they were all together in the same room for a lot of AFTW and definitley for Big Whiskey. Big Whiskey had a lot more motivation because of Roi's death--I think the band came together as a unit because of that more than they had in a long time and wanted to finish it and make it really good to honor him.

But the band has never all been together in the same room for several days by themselves without a producer and self-produced. That's something I would be interested in hearing. They kind of did that with this new album, but it was done in chunks and mostly not played together live.

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by anthonysoscia

I don’t think Jeff or any of the guys are thinking about entertainment. This band has never been like that. It’s always been about serving the music, and it shows. You can watch/read many different interviews with different band members talking how their main goal is serving the music. Jeff particularly is one of the most down to earth musicians out there. I also don’t think anyone in the band is ‘approving’ another’s playing style.

It’s not any deeper than the fact that different players have different voices and express differently. There are sax players even further towards the aggressive/extended technique end of the spectrum.. James Carter, Michael Brecker, Pharoah Sanders, etc.

I disagree in that they don't think about entertainment. Of course they do. One of the best parts about being a performance musician is entertaining a crowd. Vibing off a room full of people totally into your music...no feeling like it. Not saying that's their only drive and motivation, but entertainment plays a big part in their jobs as musicians.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by dmb2much40

They clearly put a lot of time and effort into getting Big Whiskey right.

I agree these Frankenstein albums using recordings done years apart detracts from the overall listening experience. There are some good individual tracks, but not so good to listen to start to finish.

I think they really want to find some of Roi's old parts. I truly think that's why they go back to those old takes to use because Roi was playing on them.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by Greykitkat41

Perfectly stated. This is my thoughts as well. Should have put it out when it was done, not tamper with it, and try to shoehorn a bunch of other songs onto it to make it a "full band " studio album and promote and tour on it. From everything we know, the entire full band was never in the room all together ever at the same time for this. It was piecemealed.


Renting out a cabin for 2 straight weeks or even less and recording and finishing the entire album right then and there is the only way to make a record worth a damn because that's all an album is---it's a moment in time. Not a bunch of little moments in time edited together years apart. It just doesn't work well for music.

Ya, and back in 2020/2021 we would have had less build up anticipation for it. It would have truly been "a surprise" quick 8 songs or so of music. And then they could go work on a real full blown album.

[ElijahSoRight72]

I will say I had the impression that in 2021 they went back and worked together as a unit in the studio to build on the limited recording and song structure from the 2020 sessions. I'm seeing that's not the case, and most of the base layers on these tracks will still be those initial 2020 foundations- and, yes, the track times.

I'm not going to jump off the deep end and say this album is doomed. But I had hoped this was going to be the album where they took their time to build the music together as a unit, and allow for more expression in the jams in the studio. Clearly when they work on these songs for the tour, they add so much flavor to them, and it makes the songs better. I wish they worked that way in the studio too.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by ElijahSoRight72

I will say I had the impression that in 2021 they went back and worked together as a unit in the studio to build on the limited recording and song structure from the 2020 sessions. I'm seeing that's not the case, and most of the base layers on these tracks will still be those initial 2020 foundations- and, yes, the track times.

I'm not going to jump off the deep end and say this album is doomed. But I had hoped this was going to be the album where they took their time to build the music together as a unit, and allow for more expression in the jams in the studio. Clearly when they work on these songs for the tour, they add so much flavor to them, and it makes the songs better. I wish they worked that way in the studio too.

That was my impression too and a major reason I assumed was the hold up in releasing it. Now it seems the hold up was that Dave adding Something To Tell My Baby late in the process, like album was done before he wrote that song and then he came back and said I have ONE MORE to add and likely wanted a full blown orchestra on it too. It caused them to rearrange what songs would and wouldn't be included as the new song threw off the "vibe".

Self sabotage at it's finest.

[madhatter]

Novel idea: listen to the album first, then decide if it is good or not.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by madhatter

Novel idea: listen to the album first, then decide if it is good or not.

You can exit the thread until the album is out. It's that simple if you don't want to read our speculation until then. Come back in May!

[madhatter]

Originally Posted by BustedStuff2000

That was my impression too and a major reason I assumed was the hold up in releasing it. Now it seems the hold up was that Dave adding Something To Tell My Baby late in the process, like album was done before he wrote that song and then he came back and said I have ONE MORE to add and likely wanted a full blown orchestra on it too. It caused them to rearrange what songs would and wouldn't be included as the new song threw off the "vibe".

Self sabotage at it's finest.

STTMB came months after the decision not to release in 2021. And I'm fairly certain that Dave wasn't the one who made that decision.

With only two exceptions, the album appears to be essentially what they had two years ago, even possibly down to track order (both WATM and OATB are placed exactly where they were rumored to be back in July 2021).

While it's unclear what exactly they have done aside from those two songs in the last two years, it is fairly clear that it wasn't Dave saying "Nah, I have another song I want to put on here." and rearranging everything.

[BustedStuff2000]

Originally Posted by madhatter

STTMB came months after the decision not to release in 2021. And I'm fairly certain that Dave wasn't the one who made that decision.

With only two exceptions, the album appears to be essentially what they had two years ago, even possibly down to track order (both WATM and OATB are placed exactly where they were rumored to be back in July 2021).

While it's unclear what exactly they have done aside from those two songs in the last two years, it is fairly clear that it wasn't Dave saying "Nah, I have another song I want to put on here." and rearranging everything.

No. It's not clear. You are speculating as much as anyone.

[anthonysoscia]

Originally Posted by BustedStuff2000

No. It's not clear. You are speculating as much as anyone.

Madhatter does his research; he’s not just speculating.