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Old 06-13-2019, 11:23 PM   #31
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Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
Come Tomorrow better than Sister... Joe, I love ya, but you crazy.
How about this...they both suck.
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  • Old 06-14-2019, 04:40 AM   #32
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alpine416 View Post
    See you can say Joe balances out Matt but that's not true. This episode he basically just spews negativity and bullies Joe for any positivity and Joe has just become complacent to it. Take the hint others have stated here, your making a product that literally 20 bitter "fans" on here share your opinions with you. No one wants to listen to this crap. Check out that new podcast instead.
    I'm in agreement with the bold. The last two episodes were difficult to listen to because Matt acts like his rose colored memories of things from 12-16 years ago are law.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 05:33 AM   #33
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antiramie View Post
    How about this...they both suck.

    Nah, Sister is a nice little song.



    Come Tomorrow is the liquid left in the bottom of your trash can after you take the bag out.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 05:38 AM   #34
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Antiramie View Post
    Dave's POV on the topic isn't anything new, and I do think he said it somewhat tongue in cheek. I don't think it was so much a "fuck you" as much as a "get a life".

    I don't judge anyone for being offended though. I just think at this point Dave not giving a shit comes with the territory. Take it or leave it.

    For the time being I'll take my chances he doesn't completely mail it in at my one show.

    I don't think it was tongue in cheek. As Matt pointed out, we know Dave's "I'm just fooling around" voice. He said this pretty deadpan.



    The notion that Dave plays what he wants certainly isn't new, but the utter disdain he seems to be displaying towards some of his fan base is a newer aspect of that attitude, I think.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 05:47 AM   #35
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    I mean, to a large degree, many of us are moving on. Do you think Matt, and people who feel like he does (myself included) are still going to 8-12 shows a year like we used to?

    I don't want to belabor this because my purpose isn't to pick a fight. But yes, while cutting back on or eliminating shows you attend is certainly one way to show your displeasure, I would argue that owning or moderating a fan web site and doing a podcast on top of that - all while openly despising the band and antagonizing everyone who does not - is the opposite of moving on.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 05:55 AM   #36
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    I mean clearly it was and clearly you are belaboring it. the decision tree is pretty straightforward:

    do I like this podcast? If yes, listen to next episode. If no, do not listen to next episode.

    I'm not sure what bitching about it on the internet does for you.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 05:57 AM   #37
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    matt was there a delay somewhere in the equipment? it seemed to me like the presentation of the podcast was not exactly timed the way it played out in your real-life convo. it seemed like joe was hearing the things you were saying before we were and the timing of it was a little awkward.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 06:48 AM   #38
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    I mean clearly it was and clearly you are belaboring it. the decision tree is pretty straightforward:

    do I like this podcast? If yes, listen to next episode. If no, do not listen to next episode.

    I'm not sure what bitching about it on the internet does for you.
    Does this rule only apply for those that don't like Podcasts or does it also apply to those who haven't liked DMB for years and keep bitching about it on the internet?

    Last edited by TimHonks; 06-14-2019 at 06:49 AM.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 07:09 AM   #39
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    I think that was the joke.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 07:14 AM   #40
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    I think that was the joke.
    Well, then.....I agree
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    Old 06-14-2019, 08:16 AM   #41
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Have no issue with Dave’s comments. Those that do may be a tad sensitive. Not sure how many artists change their art because a minority of super fans complained online about it. The only portion I found at all off putting was the “my show” component as it’s clearly not just him up there.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 12:07 PM   #42
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    The DMB Family is to blame for these sets. They go absolutely bonkers for You & Me, Sister and Sexy MFer.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 12:22 PM   #43
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    I haven't listened yet, but I think it's embarrassing that people are upset about that comment.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 12:26 PM   #44
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    Nah, Sister is a nice little song.



    Come Tomorrow is the liquid left in the bottom of your trash can after you take the bag out.
    Lets not be hasty here. My trash contains the remnants of some pretty decent food and the can liquid is probably vastly better than CT most weeks.
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    Old 06-14-2019, 07:09 PM   #45
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Listened the other day and forgot to give Matt credit for pointing out an overlooked question, where is Dave seeing this criticism from?
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    Old 06-16-2019, 08:06 AM   #46
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Agreed, credit to Matt for questioning how Dave even hears about this stuff. He's not on social media so he must be getting it from someone.

    I don't think Dave was kidding when he said it, and I'm totally fine with what he said. He didn't say he hates people that are longtime and enthusiastic fans of the band. He said people have expectations about how mixed a set should be, and while they try to do that he has songs that he is really enjoying playing and if that's too big of a deal for you, pound sand. And maybe he's right, he clearly likes playing Jimi Thing (and Sam Cop) and if hearing that one song ruins a setlist for you (the proverbial you) he wants people to kiss his ass about that topic. He's 52, not 32, and it sounds like he doesn't need it to be perfect for everyone. In the end, a fans relationship with a band and vice versa is like any relationship. Its built on a mutual set of assumptions about what you give in return for what you get, and if either party isn't happy with those assumptions the relationship can be modified or ended, and sometimes the parties don't agree about the change. Dave seems pretty clear about his end of this relationship and its doesn't sound like its changing.
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    Old 06-16-2019, 08:17 AM   #47
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snake911 View Post
    Agreed, credit to Matt for questioning how Dave even hears about this stuff. He's not on social media so he must be getting it from someone.

    I don't think Dave was kidding when he said it, and I'm totally fine with what he said. He didn't say he hates people that are longtime and enthusiastic fans of the band. He said people have expectations about how mixed a set should be, and while they try to do that he has songs that he is really enjoying playing and if that's too big of a deal for you, pound sand. And maybe he's right, he clearly likes playing Jimi Thing (and Sam Cop) and if hearing that one song ruins a setlist for you (the proverbial you) he wants people to kiss his ass about that topic. He's 52, not 32, and it sounds like he doesn't need it to be perfect for everyone. In the end, a fans relationship with a band and vice versa is like any relationship. Its built on a mutual set of assumptions about what you give in return for what you get, and if either party isn't happy with those assumptions the relationship can be modified or ended, and sometimes the parties don't agree about the change. Dave seems pretty clear about his end of this relationship and its doesn't sound like its changing.

    It's not about any one song, and one song most certainly can't ruin an entire set on its own. I think that's an unjustified reduction of people's complaints.



    I'm with you on the last half of your paragraph though. It took me a while to get there (no violin was the final straw) but I'm now ready to stop giving this band the lion's share of my entertainment budget.
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    Old 06-16-2019, 08:19 AM   #48
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    Listened the other day and forgot to give Matt credit for pointing out an overlooked question, where is Dave seeing this criticism from?

    Fonz? Management/PR team?



    It was a really good question but I kinda forgot about it when Joe started saying Dave's not talking about us. Of course he's talking about us.
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    Old 06-16-2019, 09:10 AM   #49
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Dave's idea of a mixed set these days is playing songs from a bunch of different albums...except they're the same songs he's played every single night for the past 5 years.

    You have other songs in your massive catalog, jackass. Play them.

    I wouldn't expect you to play Last Stop at every show just like I don't want you to play You & Me at every one. It gets old really fucking fast...like unchanging Coldplay sets old.
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    Old 06-18-2019, 01:05 PM   #50
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ExistenceNow View Post
    It's not about any one song, and one song most certainly can't ruin an entire set on its own. I think that's an unjustified reduction of people's complaints.



    I'm with you on the last half of your paragraph though. It took me a while to get there (no violin was the final straw) but I'm now ready to stop giving this band the lion's share of my entertainment budget.
    I wasn't trying to be reductive, or comment on the fan perspective. I get the impression that Dave sees it as a one or two song problem based on interviews and hearing things he says at the shows over the years, especially regarding Jimi, "hey maybe we play this too much but I like it, I'm playing it tonight but its taking a break for awhile after tonight, 4 days later breaks over and we are back to playing Jimi, if I have a song I'm enjoying playing Imma play it and the critics can kiss my ass..." I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but that's the overall impression I get from him.


    Overall the setlists don't bother me that much, and I think they sound great without Boyd with a couple of exceptions, the big turn off for me is that they used to have "versions" of songs. You could hear Jimi and #41 over and over and it was ok because the solos and jams would play out differently night to night. Now each song feels the exact rehearsed same every single night, so the repetition stands out to me a lot more. I might hit the SF show later this year if I can find cheap tix, and if not I'm ok skipping. Between my one show last year, and the Friday night Sirius concerts I'll have already the current version of everything likely to be played.
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    Old 06-18-2019, 01:09 PM   #51
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Ah, okay, I see what you're saying.
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    Old 06-18-2019, 01:16 PM   #52
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snake911 View Post


    Overall the setlists don't bother me that much, and I think they sound great without Boyd with a couple of exceptions, the big turn off for me is that they used to have "versions" of songs. You could hear Jimi and #41 over and over and it was ok because the solos and jams would play out differently night to night. Now each song feels the exact rehearsed same every single night, so the repetition stands out to me a lot more. I might hit the SF show later this year if I can find cheap tix, and if not I'm ok skipping. Between my one show last year, and the Friday night Sirius concerts I'll have already the current version of everything likely to be played.
    Bingo.

    Look - I've really tried to be as objective as possible in reconciling my current point of view on the band. I mean, those with critical analysis skills whose depth rivals a puddle like to fall back on calling those with my position "haters." As if starting a fansite 18 years ago, pouring in countless hours and dollars to keep it going, forces me to always love what the band does and if I stray from that, "[he's] just a hater." It's a laughable proposition.

    What initially drew me to the band, and which remained for the following ~10 years:
    • - Unique sound of the violin
    • - Excitement that anything can happen on any given night (setlist)
    • - Jam songs are different every night
    • - Solos are actually that - solos - which can take a song anywhere
    • - Uninhibited, soulful saxophone play
    • - Great songs making up a very high percentage chunk of every setlist

    Now, in my opinion, every single one of those items is no longer the case. I've said it over and over; if this band once again starts hitting those points, I'm back onboard. And this isn't about "living in the past," either. Every single one of those points can remain true, and the music can still continue to grow/change/evolve. None of them are prohibitive to the style of music or the sonic depth of what can be achieved. There are some who have commented, "Why even have a site / podcast if you're just going to rip on the band?" I'm no martyr, and who knows if what is said on the pod ever gets back to the band (although we've seen some indications in the past that they are aware). I'm willing to take the heat, though, if my criticisms possibly fall on willing and open ears. I'm not sitting here saying, "Band sucks. It's over." Sure I have attitude; I'm not a cupful of pencils. That's fun for me to express my opinions in loud ways. But my message is a hell of a lot more constructive and it always has been. This can be fixed. Will they? Do they care? That's what worries me about Dave's comments.

    If that's an unreasonable point of view, then nuance and critical analysis is truly dead in this community.
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    Old 06-18-2019, 01:27 PM   #53
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    I think that last point is the only thing for me that has changed
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    Old 06-19-2019, 08:45 AM   #54
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34 View Post
    I think that last point is the only thing for me that has changed
    So it's fair to say that the lack of violin (let's leave out the fact that Boyd had been declining in competency for a while) doesn't make a difference to you?

    Roi's smokey vibe and Jeff's initial burst of energy prior to Rashawn's rise in influence wasn't a factor?

    #41 actually being different night to night wasn't a draw?

    Not trying to paint you - honest questions.
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    Old 06-19-2019, 09:17 AM   #55
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    So it's fair to say that the lack of violin (let's leave out the fact that Boyd had been declining in competency for a while) doesn't make a difference to you?

    Roi's smokey vibe and Jeff's initial burst of energy prior to Rashawn's rise in influence wasn't a factor?

    #41 actually being different night to night wasn't a draw?

    Not trying to paint you - honest questions.

    I'll answer in order

    No the lack of violin doesn't make a difference to me, there are a few things I would change to the overall sound such as Buddy playing piano instead of organ on LIOG and just about everything else, but overall I am happy with the way they sound and I'm excited about how they are playing dynamically. They are able to play slower and softer than the last several years Boyd was with them which is an element I was starting to miss. If they wanted to add some world class violinist like a Lindsey Stirling of course I'd like it, perfectly happy as is though and violin definitely didn't draw me to the band.

    I'm not a big RR fan but trumpet obviously didn't draw me to the band originally, saxophone did and I think Jeff has done a tremendous job after Roi's passing

    #41 being different every night had no bearing on anything for me

    Going back to the first part about the violin I feel like a lot of people here think the people who are happy without violin are like The Fam and will just like anything they do, that's not the case at all for me. I wasn't happy with the sound of the band for the last several years Boyd was with them and it wasn't just because of him, I just listened to more and more D&T / Dave solo because I was still enjoying that part.
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    Old 06-19-2019, 09:43 AM   #56
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    as to the "where does dave hear criticism?" question:

    I thought we were years past the point in time where we believed anyone who isn't a senior citizen when they say that they don't have social media--most especially people in the public eye.
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    Old 06-19-2019, 10:31 AM   #57
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Matt View Post

    What initially drew me to the band, and which remained for the following ~10 years:
    • - Excitement that anything can happen on any given night (setlist)

    Now, in my opinion, every single one of those items is no longer the case.

    This is a weird one. The aspect of "Anything can happen" is just as true now as it was then. If anything, "Anything can happen" is more true now.


    The idea of this period in the band's history of wildly unpredictable sets just was never true.
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    Old 06-19-2019, 10:46 AM   #58
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    The issue is that the quality of songwriting dropped off which lead to concerts that didn't have all great songs, I don't believe it was ever completely unpredictable
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    Old 06-19-2019, 01:03 PM   #59
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hilly View Post

    The idea of this period in the band's history of wildly unpredictable sets just was never true.
    While I think you tend to troll on here quite a bit, I agree 100% with this. I think in the past it might have seemed a little more "anything goes" when you had to really work to get tapes from shows (B&P!), or listen to one of very few live releases, but now we have nearly instant access to nearly every note the band plays (thanks tapers! we receive an embarrassment of riches from all of you) along with a ton of officially released live sets... It gets much harder to wow a crowd these days.

    I was at the Gorge in 2010 when they did the first 3 night stand with no repeats, and even in this bands peak popularity they were playing repeats at 2 nighters. The whole "no repeats at a venue" thing is a very new phenomenon. I just think it mattered less back then because they would explore new areas within each song. It seems to me that faded away with Roi gone, and he seemed like the one that would bring new jams and interpolations into songs (Chocolate Rain in DT FTW!!!). And Jeff is an amazing soloist, sometimes I even prefer him to Roi on soprano depending on my mood. But he doesn't seem to have the role of bringing in new jams, and I would venture to say that nobody in the band currently fills that role.

    Pair that with, they didnt have any bad songs on albums through BTCS. They for sure do now. I dont think they have nearly as many "bad" songs as some others might, but they still have things I don't want to hear live. that would not have been the case in 2000.

    Last edited by snake911; 06-19-2019 at 01:05 PM.
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    Old 06-19-2019, 01:06 PM   #60
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    Re: Ants Podcast 104: Pucker Up, Critics

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hilly View Post
    This is a weird one. The aspect of "Anything can happen" is just as true now as it was then. If anything, "Anything can happen" is more true now.


    The idea of this period in the band's history of wildly unpredictable sets just was never true.
    I think it's a factor of variety per catalog depth. And to TS34's point, just a lot more bad songs being played regularly.
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