Philadelphia Eagles - Page 304 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 10-05-2020, 03:20 PM   #9091
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Re: Philadelphia Eagles

I've always been of the belief that not everyone has to answer everything asked of them at news conferences. And that's coming from someone who got "no commented" by Ruben Amaro and big timed by Cole Hamels
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  • Old 11-22-2020, 03:14 PM   #9092
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    I love this team but I HATE this team. Major change is needed. Two biggest priorities IMO are a new talent evaluator and a new head coach. It's really amazing that the organization that hit on almost every decision in 2017 seems to get so little correct anymore. Maybe we did make a deal with the devil to get that Super Bowl win.
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    Old 11-23-2020, 01:38 AM   #9093
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    I don't know if I've seen this mentioned anywhere, but do you think Wentz having a baby and all of his personal pursuits has anything to do with him being a little "off?" Everything about him in his first couple of pro years was he was "first in, last out of the building," got caught studying film while on a date, etc. He seemed to live and breathe football. Now he's got his charity, food truck, whatever Wentz Bros outdoors is, plus a new-ish wife and a 6 month old baby. Priorities change, sure, but I've wondered if he's not a little distracted and overstretched beyond football.
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    Old 11-23-2020, 07:50 AM   #9094
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    That could be part of it, but I don't think it is. When these guys are on the field, their minds are fully on the game. I don't think Wentz is lined up behind center wondering about his next charity event or how many shitty diapers he's gonna have to change on Monday.

    I'm chalking it up as a long slump and a head coach who isn't that good. Sadly, it's either gonna have to be a new team for Wentz to thrive or a complete overhaul by the Eagles.
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    Old 11-29-2020, 09:18 AM   #9095
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Hurts to see a significant bump in playing time on monday.....without Wentz on field.

    at this point fuck it. not like we ever play seattle tough even when we arent this awful
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    Old 11-30-2020, 08:51 PM   #9096
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    we gonna get a "Did you play the game?" comment from Doug tonight?
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    Old 12-01-2020, 07:34 AM   #9097
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Defense played a helluva game. Damn shame the offense didn't hold up its end of the bargain.
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    Old 12-01-2020, 07:47 AM   #9098
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    I texted my buddy right after the Seahawks kick their last field goal that now it is time for Wentz to go get a garbage time TD to help his stats and make the loss not look as bad. And then he did. Not sure I would have went for it on 4th and 4 when they needed 2 scores.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 01:00 PM   #9099
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Let the record show I was absolutely destroyed in here for defending the Hurts pick and saying that Wentz might not be the answer long-term. And assuming Jalen Hurts sticks as the starter, this will be the list of QBs to take the last snap for the Eagles each of the last 4 seasons:

    2020: Jalen Hurts
    2019: Josh McCown
    2018: Nick Foles
    2017: Nick Foles

    Wentz will have done that just once in his 5-year career -- and that was as a rookie. Beyond troubling.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 01:12 PM   #9100
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    He would have done it last year if it wasn't for a dirty hit. And this year isn't because of injury. Look, I get the point and Wentz has been terrible this year, but this is a prime example where "stats" can be manipulated to blow a point out of proportion.

    Hurts hasn't exactly played like our savior either. Sample size is tiny. But I am rooting hard for that kid. Super likable, like Wentz.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 01:29 PM   #9101
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    yeah Hurts look good yesterday, but there are a number of things- teams dont have pro tape on him, teams usually get a spark when a QB is benched or coach fired, etc.

    As for Hurts being a good pick because Wentz might not be the long-term answer, that's a pretty big knock on the organization. They gave Wentz a huge contract after 2018, he has a better year in 2019, then they draft a QB. Makes 0 sense.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 01:34 PM   #9102
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    I agree. Whether Wentz or Hurts are better for the Eagles, it made zero sense to extend Wentz and then draft Hurts a year later.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 01:49 PM   #9103
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Point is, Wentz can't stay on the field. Whether it's a recurring injury or a new injury or a dirty hit or playing so terribly that he gets benched despite being owed $100 million, does it really matter? He's not on the field when it counts the most -- that's an issue no matter how you cut it.

    And I'm well aware that giving him that contract is a knock on the organization -- it was a gigantic mistake. He had very little track record, and honestly, had a longer track record of being injured (dating back to HS and college) than he did of playing well at the NFL level. It's tough to admit you made that type of a mistake, but if you can offset that mistake by drafting a QB in the 2nd round (and I'm not saying that's what they've done here -- Hurts has an incredibly long way to go before that's even remotely up for discussion), then you can't say it's a bad pick or makes zero sense. That pick can't be analyzed/graded one way or the other until we see how everything shakes out, so it'll be years before that pick can be properly judged.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 02:26 PM   #9104
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    fully disagree. You dont give a QB a $100mm contract then draft a guy in the 2nd round

    maybe it works out well for them, but that doesnt mean it was a good pick.

    A good pick would have been getting JJ, then Rhaegor in the 2nd, then anyone who can get on the field in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th
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    Old 12-14-2020, 02:52 PM   #9105
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    fully disagree. You dont give a QB a $100mm contract then draft a guy in the 2nd round

    maybe it works out well for them, but that doesnt mean it was a good pick.

    A good pick would have been getting JJ, then Rhaegor in the 2nd, then anyone who can get on the field in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th
    That's great in theory, and hindsight is 20-20, but Reagor absolutely wasn't going to be there in the 2nd round -- and even a look back at this forum shows no mention of wanting Jefferson with that pick. A lot of people thought he'd struggle to be a #1 guy at the NFL level and would work better out of the slot.

    And let's be real here, Jefferson would not look anywhere near as good as he has in Minnesota if he spent the first 12 weeks playing in this offense. Nobody would. Same as Reagor would look a heck of a lot better playing in a different offense with a better QB. Eagles made a huge mistake giving Wentz that contract. The fact that he's been benched with multiple years remaining on that deal, that statement is objectively accurate at this point. It doesn't mean they have to just sit back and accept the fact that they're going to suck for the duration of the contract. If they saw an opportunity to grab a QB who could make them better in the 2nd round of the draft, then you do it.

    Also the statement "maybe it works out well for them, but that doesnt mean it was a good pick" is just a bit silly to me. If Hurts comes in right now and takes this team to the playoffs and then guides them to 10-6 and a Super Bowl title next season, that "doesn't mean it was a good pick"? Of course it would. I'm by no means saying that's going to happen, but just declaring that it can not be called a good pick, regardless of the results, is asinine.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 03:10 PM   #9106
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    you're kidding yourself about Jefferson. Of course he wouldnt look as good as he does in Minn, but literally everyone wanted him when he was still around. I dont know how many people went on record on these boards, that I can't answer. But with JJ there when the Eagles picked, everyone thought they would take him.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 04:16 PM   #9107
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LAA1305 View Post
    Let the record show I was absolutely destroyed in here for defending the Hurts pick and saying that Wentz might not be the answer long-term. And assuming Jalen Hurts sticks as the starter, this will be the list of QBs to take the last snap for the Eagles each of the last 4 seasons:

    2020: Jalen Hurts
    2019: Josh McCown
    2018: Nick Foles
    2017: Nick Foles

    Wentz will have done that just once in his 5-year career -- and that was as a rookie. Beyond troubling.
    You were wrong then and just as wrong now.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 05:10 PM   #9108
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LAA1305 View Post
    That's great in theory, and hindsight is 20-20, but Reagor absolutely wasn't going to be there in the 2nd round -- and even a look back at this forum shows no mention of wanting Jefferson with that pick.
    Took me a whole 2 minutes in the NFL Thread.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noles20 View Post
    Reagor over Jefferson? Howie always has to be smarter than everyone else.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foreverford05 View Post
    Reagor? Didnt hear much about him
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmb9howell View Post
    Yea that was interesting for the Eagles based on what everyone was saying, but honestly I don't know.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    fucking Howie always has to get cute
    And a bonus one.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by clayj41 View Post
    I like Reagor. I like Jefferson a lot more though.

    Wanted the Packers to get him so obviously the exact opposite happens.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 06:49 PM   #9109
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Leave it to the reporter to do the hard hitting research. Good work Roose.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 06:56 PM   #9110
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    Leave it to the reporter to do the hard hitting research. Good work Roose.
    I meant this thread specifically, which I did research -- has nothing to do with being a "reporter."

    Again, if you put Reagor in Minnesota and put Jefferson in Philadelphia, Reagor is having the better season. No receiver would have been successful in the first 12 weeks of this season in an Eagles uniform. Look at Zach Ertz -- guy entered this season as a consensus top-4 TE in the NFL. He's averaging 27.1 receiving yards per game. He has one game with 50+ receiving yards in eight starts. Is some of it a lack of effort and all his off-field stuff? Maybe. Is some of it that he's playing in a stagnant offense with a QB who was making terrible reads, terrible decisions and inaccurate throws? Of course.

    If this offense can turn Ertz from a top-3 TE into a pretty useless pass catcher, then something tells me it wouldn't have been great for Jefferson. You think he'd be a viable deep threat with Wentz delivering the ball? Not a chance.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 06:58 PM   #9111
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noles20 View Post
    You were wrong then and just as wrong now.
    Based on ... what? Wentz lighting it up this year? Wentz proving he's the franchise QB and the Eagles don't need a new QB?

    I must have missed all that. All Wentz has done has proven further that he's not a viable option. Arguing otherwise, at this point, is baffling to me ...
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:01 PM   #9112
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    listen dude I think everyone with eyes can agree that Hurts is the better option today. That doesn't mean we should just discount Wentz entirely. And it sure as fuck doesn't make the Hurts pick a good one.

    I'm sorry, but they drafted a LB who can't get on the field on a team led by Nate Gerry, a safety who can't get on the field with a depleted secondary, 2 WRs who couldnt get on the field with EVERY WR injured...

    If somehow they get out of the Wentz deal and Hurts ends up being a serviceable starter, great. That's still a very shitty job running their organization. You can't tell me they gave him that contract after an avg 2018, and then he has a really good 2019 and they're like "yep, we need another guy"
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:05 PM   #9113
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LAA1305 View Post
    Based on ... what? Wentz lighting it up this year? Wentz proving he's the franchise QB and the Eagles don't need a new QB?

    I must have missed all that. All Wentz has done has proven further that he's not a viable option. Arguing otherwise, at this point, is baffling to me ...
    You were wrong about the pick. It was a waste then and it is not a solution now. Hurts is not a franchise QB. The only thing that is happening now is worsening their draft position.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:13 PM   #9114
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    listen dude I think everyone with eyes can agree that Hurts is the better option today. That doesn't mean we should just discount Wentz entirely. And it sure as fuck doesn't make the Hurts pick a good one.

    I'm sorry, but they drafted a LB who can't get on the field on a team led by Nate Gerry, a safety who can't get on the field with a depleted secondary, 2 WRs who couldnt get on the field with EVERY WR injured...

    If somehow they get out of the Wentz deal and Hurts ends up being a serviceable starter, great. That's still a very shitty job running their organization. You can't tell me they gave him that contract after an avg 2018, and then he has a really good 2019 and they're like "yep, we need another guy"
    Easy to say from a distance, but there are/were plenty of signs that Wentz might not be the best long-term option both on the field and off the field (confidence, leadership, etc.). Again, he never should have gotten that contract in the first place -- that was the mistake. We're not going to agree on this, but fortunately, it's something that will all play itself out over time. If Wentz comes out next season and he's suddenly great again, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Something tells me that's not going to happen.

    Not that I'm about to a deep dive on Carson Wentz right now, but I wouldn't even go as far as saying he was "really good" in 2019. The dude fumbled 16 times -- that's once per game! And that's been a problem his entire career. He has 58 fumbles in 68 games. Only player since the NFL merger has fumbled more times in his first 68 games: Tony Banks (61). That's a major issue. Losing a fumble is every bit as bad as an interception -- and, in many cases, actually worse, because it typically results in better field position or a defensive TD since there obviously isn't a line of players behind the QB to make a tackle.

    So sure, focus on the "7 interceptions or less" number, but the fact is Carson Wentz has not taken care of the football since he entered the league. He puts the ball on the ground at a higher rate than almost any player in NFL history. Now, we haven't even gotten into his off-target percentage, underthrows, time before release, etc.

    As was mentioned, anyone with eyes knows that Hurts is a better option "today" than Carson Wentz -- and isn't that, in itself, a major problem? This 2nd-round QB that seemingly nobody wanted is clearly a better option than a supposed franchise QB making $100+ million? That alone tells me that the latter is NOT a franchise QB. If he's being outplayed by a rookie QB -- again, one that none of you wanted -- that speaks volumes. Wentz is done being a successful QB in this league.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:15 PM   #9115
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Noles20 View Post
    You were wrong about the pick. It was a waste then and it is not a solution now. Hurts is not a franchise QB. The only thing that is happening now is worsening their draft position.
    So, to be clear, you're saying Wentz is a better option than Hurts, but playing Hurts over Wentz is hurting draft position -- aka the team is better with Hurts than Wentz?

    That is ... something

    Edit: Also, it's ridiculous to say anyone was wrong (or right) about a draft pick within one year of the pick being made, unless that player is out of the league. As I've said elsewhere, if the Eagles win a Super Bowl next year or two years from now with Jalen Hurts at QB, then I wasn't "wrong" about the pick. It's like people "grading" trades right after they happen -- it's nonsense. You're entitled to your opinion about it being a bad pick, just as I'm entitled to my opinion that it was a good pick. But saying anyone is right/wrong about it is just a waste of everyone's time and not something I'm even going to entertain anymore.

    Last edited by LAA1305; 12-14-2020 at 07:18 PM.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:23 PM   #9116
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LAA1305 View Post
    Easy to say from a distance, but there are/were plenty of signs that Wentz might not be the best long-term option both on the field and off the field (confidence, leadership, etc.). Again, he never should have gotten that contract in the first place -- that was the mistake. We're not going to agree on this, but fortunately, it's something that will all play itself out over time. If Wentz comes out next season and he's suddenly great again, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Something tells me that's not going to happen.

    Not that I'm about to a deep dive on Carson Wentz right now, but I wouldn't even go as far as saying he was "really good" in 2019. The dude fumbled 16 times -- that's once per game! And that's been a problem his entire career. He has 58 fumbles in 68 games. Only player since the NFL merger has fumbled more times in his first 68 games: Tony Banks (61). That's a major issue. Losing a fumble is every bit as bad as an interception -- and, in many cases, actually worse, because it typically results in better field position or a defensive TD since there obviously isn't a line of players behind the QB to make a tackle.

    So sure, focus on the "7 interceptions or less" number, but the fact is Carson Wentz has not taken care of the football since he entered the league. He puts the ball on the ground at a higher rate than almost any player in NFL history. Now, we haven't even gotten into his off-target percentage, underthrows, time before release, etc.

    As was mentioned, anyone with eyes knows that Hurts is a better option "today" than Carson Wentz -- and isn't that, in itself, a major problem? This 2nd-round QB that seemingly nobody wanted is clearly a better option than a supposed franchise QB making $100+ million? That alone tells me that the latter is NOT a franchise QB. If he's being outplayed by a rookie QB -- again, one that none of you wanted -- that speaks volumes. Wentz is done being a successful QB in this league.
    so to clarify, you went into the draft wanting a QB, specifically Hurts?

    and yes, it was a bad pick then and its a bad pick now. We can grade it. If you give a QB $100mm, maybe you should prioritize build around him? Instead they draft a back up qb, a project LB, and a safety in the first 4 rounds. That does nothing to help him

    annnd

    When they drafted Hurts, here are the options

    1. best case scenario: Wentz plays well, Hurts doesnt play, Hurts has 0 trade value due to not playing
    2. Wentz gets hurt...you used a 2nd round pick on his backup instead of signing someone like Andy Dalton, without wasting a high pick

    NOBODY thought Wentz would be benched due to poor play, least of all the guy that gave him $100mm
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    Last edited by smokew11; 12-14-2020 at 07:27 PM.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:27 PM   #9117
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    so to clarify, you went into the draft wanting a QB, specifically Hurts?
    I didn't want or not want anyone. I didn't care who the Eagles drafted. I still don't -- I just strongly believe that Carson Wentz is not a very good NFL QB. I also believe that a team making a mistake on giving out a huge QB contract too soon is bad enough, but it's made much worse by teams that are unwilling to acknowledge they made such a mistake and then proceed to let it set back their franchise for years and years. If you've committed that much money to a QB, you can't go out and find one on the FA market, but if you can grab one on a 2nd-round rookie contract and he turns out to be the answer, then you've just bailed yourself out of that awful contract. It's at least worth a shot as opposed to sitting back and watching your team win 3-5 games for the next 4 years because your big gamble didn't pay off.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:32 PM   #9118
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    so to clarify, you went into the draft wanting a QB, specifically Hurts?

    and yes, it was a bad pick then and its a bad pick now. We can grade it. If you give a QB $100mm, maybe you should prioritize build around him? Instead they draft a back up qb, a project LB, and a safety in the first 4 rounds. That does nothing to help him

    annnd

    When they drafted Hurts, here are the options

    1. best case scenario: Wentz plays well, Hurts doesnt play, Hurts has 0 trade value due to not playing
    2. Wentz gets hurt...you used a 2nd round pick on his backup instead of signing someone like Andy Dalton, without wasting a high pick

    NOBODY thought Wentz would be benched due to poor play, least of all the guy that gave him $100mm
    Yeah, Andy Dalton is working out REALLY well in Dallas, right? For a fan of a team that literally won a Super Bowl with its backup QB after Carson Wentz himself got hurt, it's shocking how mystified you are that the Eagles have prioritized the backup QB position.

    Eagles fans are also living in a vacuum if they think this is the only place it's happening. People wanted the Packers to build around Aaron Rodgers and get him more weapons -- instead they drafted a QB in the first round. Then they drafted a RB in the 2nd round, despite having Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams on the roster. Did Aaron Rodgers fall apart this year? Nope, he's playing at an MVP level and the Packers are the #1 seed in the NFC at the moment. The Patriots drafted a QB in the 3rd round in 2008 -- right after Tom Brady won the MVP Award for leading the Patriots to an undefeated regular season.

    Too many people are acting like this was some crazy pick that doesn't happen in successful organizations, and that just couldn't be further from the truth.
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:37 PM   #9119
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    I've enjoyed the debate on the topic, but I've made my stance known, just as all of you have. I respect the opinions, even if some of you don't respect mine. It will all play itself out over the next few games and next season.

    No point in continuing to go back and forth when you're already declaring a pick to be the "wrong" pick less than one season after it was made. In your head, Jalen Hurts can win 5 Super Bowls as the Eagles QB and you've already decided it would STILL be the wrong pick. That's obviously just nonsense. Have a good night all!
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    Old 12-14-2020, 07:42 PM   #9120
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    Re: Philadelphia Eagles

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LAA1305 View Post
    Yeah, Andy Dalton is working out REALLY well in Dallas, right? For a fan of a team that literally won a Super Bowl with its backup QB after Carson Wentz himself got hurt, it's shocking how mystified you are that the Eagles have prioritized the backup QB position.

    Eagles fans are also living in a vacuum if they think this is the only place it's happening. People wanted the Packers to build around Aaron Rodgers and get him more weapons -- instead they drafted a QB in the first round. Then they drafted a RB in the 2nd round, despite having Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams on the roster. Did Aaron Rodgers fall apart this year? Nope, he's playing at an MVP level and the Packers are the #1 seed in the NFC at the moment. The Patriots drafted a QB in the 3rd round in 2008 -- right after Tom Brady won the MVP Award for leading the Patriots to an undefeated regular season.

    Too many people are acting like this was some crazy pick that doesn't happen in successful organizations, and that just couldn't be further from the truth.
    re: your first point...if DP is so good with backups, maybe Dalton would have worked out. I'm not upset about them prioritizing the backup...they had a backup making $7mm a couple years ago. I'm perfectly fine with it

    To your 2nd point, a couple things:
    1. not every team is "doing it"...NO team drafts a guy in the 2nd round to be the backup
    2. We can compare to Rdogers or Brady, but those guys are simply wired differently than most other athletes
    3. Using the packers as an example is dumb. Bad drafting is one of the reasons why Rodgers only has 1 SB...imagine if they did get him weapons...but no, they got another RB, yay them
    4. NE hasn't been a beacon of great drafting, its the biggest knock on BB
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