So... I'd like to talk about religion

[Route_2]

Originally Posted by smb41

That's a ridiculous question. If I (and the rest of the human population) had been born with the absolute awareness that there is no God, then maybe I would. But I (and many, many other people) have lived my life in a way that coincides with the existence of God, so I wouldn't be able to merely flip a switch if your scenario played out. It's impossible for me to say if/how I would change under those circumstances. If I (along with everyone else) had lived my entire life knowing God doesn't exist, then that would be different.

As FromTheMorning said, not ridiculous at all. You seem to think that humans are incapable of formulating and abiding by a concept of morality outside of a religious paradigm. This idea on it's face is asinine, since humans created god in the first place. But, that point aside, you wouldn't start murdering because it's a ridiculous idea that the only reason humans don't start committing egregious crimes is because they believe they would be rewarded with some eternal bliss or stuck is a firey hell in a supposed afterlife depending on the behavior on earth. As was mentioned earlier, if these consequences are the only things keeping one from hurting other people, they are an awful person to begin with.

Social cooperation is built into our make-up through millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of developing societal structures. We would not be the most advanced species on the earth if we constantly had blind impulses to murder one another. Other highly intelligent animals do not worship a god and they are able to form basic social hierarchies and create rules/conventions/habits for themselves without constantly murdering each other.

[neumdogg]

I'm one of the chosen people, motherfuckers! All bow to my Jewishness!

Born and raised as a conservative Jew. Went to Hebrew School twice a week from 3rd grade to 7th grade. Got Bar Mitzvah'd at 13. Been to Israel once as a teenager. Attended Jewish sleep away camp for 7 years (basically you pray for 20 minutes a day and you hook up with girls the rest of the time).

Now I am more reformed than anything. I go to synagogue twice a year. Married a good Jewish girl. Plan to raise my child with Jewish traditions.

I am really only Jewish for the traditions. I love food and the holidays but I don't put much about God into them. I do believe that there is something/someone that created this whole existence. I just don't subscribe to specific faith for any theological answers.

So in closing...we run Hollywood, control all your money, and are bad at sports.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by neumdogg

I'm one of the chosen people, motherfuckers! All bow to my Jewishness!

Born and raised as a conservative Jew. Went to Hebrew School twice a week from 3rd grade to 7th grade. Got Bar Mitzvah'd at 13. Been to Israel once as a teenager. Attended Jewish sleep away camp for 7 years (basically you pray for 20 minutes a day and you hook up with girls the rest of the time).

Now I am more reformed than anything. I go to synagogue twice a year. Married a good Jewish girl. Plan to raise my child with Jewish traditions.

I am really only Jewish for the traditions. I love food and the holidays but I don't put much about God into them. I do believe that there is something/someone that created this whole existence. I just don't subscribe to specific faith for any theological answers.

So in closing...we run Hollywood, control all your money, and are bad at sports.

I love you, Paulie

[bartender_man]

Was strong Christian for a period from 2007-2008....Now pretty agnostic. Not atheist but more spiritual than religious.

[M. Steng]

The biggest doubt I have as far as faith is the afterlife. I really struggle with the idea and have doubted it more and more as I've gotten older. Conversely, it's the only thing keeping believers really in line, because what's the point of leading a faithful life if there's no payoff at the end? A very constant back and forth in my brain about this the past year or so.

[YouNeverKnow25]

I think the point in living a faithful life is that it is its own reward. That's my outlook at least. The faith versus works issue is a real conflict for me and I don't know how to resolve it other than to live a faithful life that also contains good works.

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

I think the point in living a faithful life is that it is its own reward. That's my outlook at least. The faith versus works issue is a real conflict for me and I don't know how to resolve it other than to live a faithful life that also contains good works.

are these dmb lyrics?

[YouNeverKnow25]

No, from a phish demo b-side. Right between the mcgrupp and the lizards term paper eras


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AJF_41]

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25

No, from a phish demo b-side. Right between the mcgrupp and the lizards term paper eras


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

got it
felt like big 3 material to me

[MOWJO8185]

Originally Posted by Route_2

As FromTheMorning said, not ridiculous at all. You seem to think that humans are incapable of formulating and abiding by a concept of morality outside of a religious paradigm. This idea on it's face is asinine, since humans created god in the first place. But, that point aside, you wouldn't start murdering because it's a ridiculous idea that the only reason humans don't start committing egregious crimes is because they believe they would be rewarded with some eternal bliss or stuck is a firey hell in a supposed afterlife depending on the behavior on earth. As was mentioned earlier, if these consequences are the only things keeping one from hurting other people, they are an awful person to begin with.

Social cooperation is built into our make-up through millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of developing societal structures. We would not be the most advanced species on the earth if we constantly had blind impulses to murder one another. Other highly intelligent animals do not worship a god and they are able to form basic social hierarchies and create rules/conventions/habits for themselves without constantly murdering each other.

While I agree with what you are saying, I think there has to be some acknowledgement that religion was weaved into the fabric of these developing societal structures over time. That fear of God or punishment early on, in more primitive time, yielded this social cooperation you mentioned. We've reached a point in evolution now where the lifestyle that religion has promoted runs through our society, even if a large portion of that society doesn't believe in God Himself. How many people in this thread mentioned that they were raised Catholic but are now atheist/agnostic? Your parents still brought you up with an understanding of right and wrong. Or, if not your parents, you observed acceptable and unacceptable behavior from friends and society at large.

So no, if evidence came out tomorrow that God isn't real, I don't think the world would fall to chaos immediately. But I do think it's possible that it would devolve over the course of several hundred or thousand years.

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by cazzie34

I watched the first two minutes...would he (or you) charge women who get an abortion with murder in the first degree?

Originally Posted by smb41

Like him or not, he's extremely intelligent and raises some very valid points in this video and in all of his work. He's my all-time favorite conservative pundit.

Still not answered. He speaks in pretty black and white terms and seems pretty convinced that a fetus is a person and has equal (if not superior)rights to the woman.

So.....?

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

The biggest doubt I have as far as faith is the afterlife. I really struggle with the idea and have doubted it more and more as I've gotten older. Conversely, it's the only thing keeping believers really in line, because what's the point of leading a faithful life if there's no payoff at the end? A very constant back and forth in my brain about this the past year or so.

Happiness and love.

[Nick@Night]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

While I agree with what you are saying, I think there has to be some acknowledgement that religion was weaved into the fabric of these developing societal structures over time. That fear of God or punishment early on, in more primitive time, yielded this social cooperation you mentioned. We've reached a point in evolution now where the lifestyle that religion has promoted runs through our society, even if a large portion of that society doesn't believe in God Himself. How many people in this thread mentioned that they were raised Catholic but are now atheist/agnostic? Your parents still brought you up with an understanding of right and wrong. Or, if not your parents, you observed acceptable and unacceptable behavior from friends and society at large.

So no, if evidence came out tomorrow that God isn't real, I don't think the world would fall to chaos immediately. But I do think it's possible that it would devolve over the course of several hundred or thousand years.

We'd basically have the "Go God Go" episode of South Park.

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

The biggest doubt I have as far as faith is the afterlife. I really struggle with the idea and have doubted it more and more as I've gotten older. Conversely, it's the only thing keeping believers really in line, because what's the point of leading a faithful life if there's no payoff at the end? A very constant back and forth in my brain about this the past year or so.

What's the idea exactly that are you struggling with? Just the notion that there may be no afterlife at all?

[Drwbllz]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

What's the idea exactly that are you struggling with? Just the notion that there may be no afterlife at all?

That's pretty much what kick-started my atheism.

[Climb2safety]

When you believe that Jesus was the son of God, died for our sins and was raised from the dead three days later, the idea of an after life becomes a moot point.

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

When you believe that Jesus was the son of God, died for our sins and was raised from the dead three days later, the idea of an after life becomes a moot point.

Why is that?

Also, do you think Jesus rising from the dead is reason enough to believe that he is the son of God?

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

Why is that?

Also, do you think Jesus rising from the dead is reason enough to believe that he is the son of God?

It's moot because if there was no heaven none of it would matter.

[Gene Parmesan]

"it all comes down to nothing"

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan

"it all comes down to nothing"

That's a little bleak Gene. I like to think we can leave the world a better place, live on through our children, and for many people provide a legacy of some sort. Not to mention haunt everyone afterwards.

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by grace2

he was a pretty well spoken guy and i usually agreed with his take on things regarding religion.

he was literally drunk all the time.

If he did that drunk there's no telling how bad he would school people while sober.


Love watching Hitch slaps on youtube.

[recentlyJTR41]

Oh yeah in b4 lock

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

It's moot because if there was no heaven none of it would matter.

What is heaven to you? Where is it? What happens there?

I think the idea of an afterlife diminishes and devalues real life. It also frustrates me when a perfectly happy and healthy person dies and people say "well they're in a better place now."

[FromTheMorning]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

If he did that drunk there's no telling how bad he would school people while sober.


Love watching Hitch slaps on youtube.

Serious question, what is it like to be a non-religious person in the South?

[lockman21]

I don't know what I would identify as. I guess the closest I identify with is wrestling between agnostic or atheist.

[Route_2]

Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan

"it all comes down to nothing"

Kind of true since our sun is scheduled to explode in about 4 billion years. On the bright side, humans will most likely be long extinct by then.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by FromTheMorning

What is heaven to you? Where is it? What happens there?

I think the idea of an afterlife diminishes and devalues real life. It also frustrates me when a perfectly happy and healthy person dies and people say "well they're in a better place now."

I don't spend too much pondering the specify of heaven to be honest. I just hope my dad's there.

The thing about all this stuff is to understand we're human and have limits. Any thoughts we have on this stuff will be limited by our own understanding and we also tend to personify it all. And, when we apply human thinking to how God operates we're going to get it all wrong.

We have a soul, a spirit, energy that makes us who we are. And that lives forever together with God.

[zajDmB1]

Born and raised Catholic, stopped caring sometime in high school, go to Church on Christmas to make my family happy but other than that, have not been to a normal mass in 12 or so years.

I can't get myself to just flat out say 'there's no god' so I'd say I'm as far agnostic as you can get without being atheist.

Don't have a problem with anyone having spirituality if they keep it to themselves, but I pretty much hate most aspects of organized religion. They are all basically crimes of opportunity to me; preying on the weak to make a buck. Not that I don't think high level religious leaders don't truly believe what they preach, I think most of them do, but they also know damn well that they are taking advantage of people and bending them to their will. And attempting (and sometimes succeeding) in pushing those beliefs onto non-followers.

Looks like I'm late to the morality debate, but I also think it's ridiculous that people think morality is based purely on religious implications.

[FromTheMorning]

Agnosticism and atheism (or theism for that matter) aren't mutually exclusive. Technically everyone should probably identify as agnostic given that there's no case closing evidence for either side. An agnostic atheist says that they don't believe in any god, but since we don't know for sure I can't be positive in my claim. Same with theists. They believe in god but also can't know for sure.

[smb41]

Originally Posted by Route_2

As FromTheMorning said, not ridiculous at all. You seem to think that humans are incapable of formulating and abiding by a concept of morality outside of a religious paradigm. This idea on it's face is asinine, since humans created god in the first place. But, that point aside, you wouldn't start murdering because it's a ridiculous idea that the only reason humans don't start committing egregious crimes is because they believe they would be rewarded with some eternal bliss or stuck is a firey hell in a supposed afterlife depending on the behavior on earth. As was mentioned earlier, if these consequences are the only things keeping one from hurting other people, they are an awful person to begin with.



Social cooperation is built into our make-up through millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of developing societal structures. We would not be the most advanced species on the earth if we constantly had blind impulses to murder one another. Other highly intelligent animals do not worship a god and they are able to form basic social hierarchies and create rules/conventions/habits for themselves without constantly murdering each other.

There's much more to Christianity than the promise of eternal life. Most Christians aren't that shallow.