Expectations

[Funkhouser]

I think Lying in the Hands of God, Baby Blue and Alligator Pie are fantastic songs. Dave still has it in him. He is just lazy. Lillywhite will make him write even better, I hope.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by #41Tom

Not for me, at any rate. I think the songs on UTTAD are insane, but the production/mixing whatever isn't my cup of tea. So I prefer Busted Stuff and Everyday because I prefer the mixing of those songs, even though I like the songs equally on BS, and less so ED, clearly.

Eh... I think you are in the super minority there (like, you might be the only one). I think the sound quality on SU (I feel like we may have actually had this conversation before) is probably the best out of all the albums... but I sure as shit don't prefer listening to it, at all.

[bacarver]

This album will be better than TLWS, Busted Stuff, BWGGK, Everyday and Stand Up assuming they keep it simple, straightforward, raw and pure. Don't need flowery over-production or a Tim Reynold's/Dave Matthews "Rock n Roll Light Metal" show. Back to the basics, gents, with solid, simple yet textured music and deep, metaphorical lyrics. If they pull this off, The Big Three will turn into The Big Four.

[aronofsky41]

I don't get why a person would be excited to have Lillywhite producing if they think he will have minimal outcome over the quality of the product.

[Coker]

New Studio Album




tLWS/BTCS
Crash
UTTAD


Busted Stuff


Big Whiskey

Everyday










Stand Up

[brobb]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

1. Production matters. See Busted Stuff (which blows) vs. Lillywhite Sessions (which is amazing). Most of the songs are the same.

Yeah but that's the thing, the Lillywhite Sessions never got released. The band eventually released what they wanted, which was Busted Stuff. The band has had a taste of recording outside of Lillywhite's grasp and if you think the band is going to get pushed around like they did back then you're out of your mind. Plus, Lillywhite has produced several mediocre albums, it just depends on the band, and this band has definitely changed. I'd be completely ecstatic if the band released something comparable to old days, but it just doesn't seem likely. Doesn't mean it will be bad, just not even close to the same, regardless of Steve Lillywhite's presence.

[Jsc6545]

Originally Posted by Coker

New Studio Album




tLWS/BTCS
Crash
UTTAD


Busted Stuff


Big Whiskey

Everyday










Stand Up

i would love that

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by brobb

Yeah but that's the thing, the Lillywhite Sessions never got released. The band eventually released what they wanted, which was Busted Stuff. The band has had a taste of recording outside of Lillywhite's grasp and if you think the band is going to get pushed around like they did back then you're out of your mind. Plus, Lillywhite has produced several mediocre albums, it just depends on the band, and this band has definitely changed. I'd be completely ecstatic if the band released something comparable to old days, but it just doesn't seem likely. Doesn't mean it will be bad, just not even close to the same, regardless of Steve Lillywhite's presence.

That's fine, but then I take it you are indifferent to the news that Steve is producing?

[#41Tom]

Originally Posted by drop2d

Eh... I think you are in the super minority there (like, you might be the only one). I think the sound quality on SU (I feel like we may have actually had this conversation before) is probably the best out of all the albums... but I sure as shit don't prefer listening to it, at all.

Ha yeah I think we probs have. I prefer listening to ED, I love the songs, but yup UTTAD songs are on another level. However, mixing and all into the equation - ED wins for me.

I hardly ever listen to UTTAD studio, because of the sound.

It's just personal tastes!

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by crashintonickdm

steve doesnt write the music.

That's the thing people forget. Steve produced good records but a lot of the first two the songs were done. Even BTCS a lot of those songs were reworked older ones. This will be a big test for him.

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

1. Production matters. See Busted Stuff (which blows) vs. Lillywhite Sessions (which is amazing). Most of the songs are the same.

See I'm one that likes the more finished stuff. Grey Street while great live in 2000, the LWS version is mumbled words that you can't understand. Raven didn't flow with the lyrics. Plus a lot of mumbling still. And the audio quality was shit, part of the problem being technology at the time but still. Would have liked to hear the finished post-production one.

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

That's the thing people forget. Steve produced good records but a lot of the first two the songs were done. Even BTCS a lot of those songs were reworked older ones. This will be a big test for him.

See I'm one that likes the more finished stuff. Grey Street while great live in 2000, the LWS version is mumbled words that you can't understand. Raven didn't flow with the lyrics. Plus a lot of mumbling still. And the audio quality was shit, part of the problem being technology at the time but still. Would have liked to hear the finished post-production one.

Raven doesn't have lyrics on tLWS, it's just gibberish. And yet musically it's still 100x better than the BS. I'll give you Grey Street.

But on the whole, tLWS SLAYS Busted Stuff on every musical level IMO. And since the songwriting was the same, it only makes sense to credit that difference to Steve and blame the failure on other Steve.

[brobb]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

That's fine, but then I take it you are indifferent to the news that Steve is producing?

Well, the little kid inside of me is actually incredibly excited. I will definitely be paying attention to these sessions and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, outside of hoping, the band hasn't shown that they're very willing change. Maybe the band hiring Steve Lillywhite really is their way of saying they want to return to their old style of recording and he is the only man that can push. I just don't see it realistically. They're old friends. If not just for wanting to work with him based on friendship, I'm sure his name alone will add a boost to album sales, especially for this fanbase.

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by brobb

Well, the little kid inside of me is actually incredibly excited. I will definitely be paying attention to these sessions and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, outside of hoping, the band hasn't shown their very willing change. Maybe the band hiring Steve Lillywhite really is their way of saying they want to return to their old style of recording and he is the only man that can push. I just don't see it realistically. They're old friends. If not just for wanting to work with him based on friendship, I'm sure his name alone will add a boost to album sales, especially for this fanbase.

But to you Steve isn't *actually* doing anything to significantly improve the music right? I mean what matters here for you is the possible change in the band's attitude.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by #41Tom

Ha yeah I think we probs have. I prefer listening to ED, I love the songs, but yup UTTAD songs are on another level. However, mixing and all into the equation - ED wins for me.

I hardly ever listen to UTTAD studio, because of the sound.

It's just personal tastes!

I guess I see more of where you're coming from now. There's albums I don't listen to as much b/c of the sound as well. Momentary Lapse of Reason comes right to mind... some great songs on there, but horrendous sound quality.

I've just never thought that UTTAD was really all that bad...

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by drop2d

I guess I see more of where you're coming from now. There's albums I don't listen to as much b/c of the sound as well. Momentary Lapse of Reason comes right to mind... some great songs on there, but horrendous sound quality.

I've just never thought that UTTAD was really all that bad...

UTTAD sounds amazing to my ears. Don't know what any of ya'll are talkin about and I guess I never will.

[stoneje]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

I KNOW his arrangements will be better than Cavallo's.

No, you don't know that his arrangements will be better than Cavallo's. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think that this album will be BTCS-quality, in the same way that people around here set themselves up for disappointment by thinking that every DMB show they attend should be like 12-3-98.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

UTTAD sounds amazing to my ears. Don't know what any of ya'll are talkin about and I guess I never will.

Listen to UTTAD, then BS back to back... if you don't hear a difference, you got hearing problems dude. It's not the song quality, it's just the way it sounds.

[crashintonickdm]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

1. Production matters. See Busted Stuff (which blows) vs. Lillywhite Sessions (which is amazing). Most of the songs are the same.

2. No, Steve doesn't write the music. But he does lock Dave in small rooms and not let him out until he writes good music, or Dave doesn't come out of the room. That's a fact.



No I don't. But I think Steve will push them for better material, and I KNOW his arrangements will be better than Cavallo's.

production is somewhat important.

quality of music is more important, and its why BS blew out all the other post BTCS albums in a poll.

[brobb]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

But to you Steve isn't *actually* doing anything to significantly improve the music right? I mean what matters here for you is the possible change in the band's attitude.

He will definitely work to improve songs in many respects. But how much can you improve Black Jack or Break For It without creating an entirely different song? I just don't think he can take mediocre music and make it great. It used to be a 2 way street.

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by stoneje

No, you don't know that his arrangements will be better than Cavallo's. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think that this album will be BTCS-quality, in the same way that people around here set themselves up for disappointment by thinking that every DMB show they attend should be like 12-3-98.

I KNOW in my heart they will be. I do. In this case I believe that past performance means everything. And so what if I'm disappointed I'm disappointed. I'd rather be excited now.

And every single DMB show SHOULD be like 12.3.98 in quality, but that's another issue altogether.

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by stoneje

No, you don't know that his arrangements will be better than Cavallo's. Past performance is not a guarantee of future performance. You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think that this album will be BTCS-quality, in the same way that people around here set themselves up for disappointment by thinking that every DMB show they attend should be like 12-7-98.

Fixed for 'best show ever' correction.

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by drop2d

Listen to UTTAD, then BS back to back... if you don't hear a difference, you got hearing problems dude. It's not the song quality, it's just the way it sounds.

I think YOU'RE the one with the hearing problem.

Originally Posted by crashintonickdm

production is somewhat important.

quality of music is more important, and its why BS blew out all the other post BTCS albums in a poll.

I don't see a distinction between production and quality of the music. Performance / arrangement IS part of the quality.

Originally Posted by brobb

He will definitely work to improve songs in many respects. But how much can you improve Black Jack or Break For It without creating an entirely different song? I just don't think he can take mediocre music and make it great. It used to be a 2 way street.

I don't think, from a songwriting perspective, Big Eyed Fish and Digging a Ditch are anything special - very standard guitar chords, melodies etc. But Steve's production of them made them special tracks on tLWS. They are middling, mediocre, meh nothings on Busted Stuff IMO.

[aronofsky41]

Originally Posted by drop2d

Fixed for 'best show ever' correction.

This I agree with

[trippingbillie4]

As good as the Lillywhite Sessions (I hope)

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

Raven doesn't have lyrics on tLWS, it's just gibberish. And yet musically it's still 100x better than the BS. I'll give you Grey Street.

But on the whole, tLWS SLAYS Busted Stuff on every musical level IMO. And since the songwriting was the same, it only makes sense to credit that difference to Steve and blame the failure on other Steve.

See I'm more of a put the blame on the band kind of guy. I personally like Raven on Busted Stuff but regardless maybe that's where Raven would have gone anyways too I dunno how "done" it was on that recording. But I still put more blame on the band for tLWS falling apart, ED and SU. They all say (about ED and SU) how they weren't that good and whatever, then you should have opened your mouth. Then maybe you wouldn't have almost broken up in 07 and post-2000 albums would have been better.

[crashintonickdm]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

I think YOU'RE the one with the hearing problem.



I don't see a distinction between production and quality of the music. Performance / arrangement IS part of the quality.



I don't think, from a songwriting perspective, Big Eyed Fish and Digging a Ditch are anything special - very standard guitar chords, melodies etc. But Steve's production of them made them special tracks on tLWS. They are middling, mediocre, meh nothings on Busted Stuff IMO.

well then i dont see what the major problem with BS is. its a tad watered down from LWS, which was up there with the big 3.

BS is rated right. just below the big 3 and way above BW,ED and SU. if we get another album like BS, id be happy. i dont see it though.

[jaymas9]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

You don't think Steve Fuckin Lillywhite can do a better job with this band than Rob Cavallo? Someone should send you a copy of the Lillywhite Sessions immediately.

Steve also never had LeRoi (the heart of the band in so many ways) die in the middle of the recording process. BW would have turned out far differently if he had not passed. The interview Dave and Carter did together pre spring album tour indicated Roi and Rob hit it off instantly, something that seems to be lost around here. Not saying Cavallo is Lillywhite, he isn't, especially as it relates to this band, and I do think this will be better than BW as it is, or I'd speculate and say this would still be better than BW had Roi lived to be on it like he was supposed to be.

I just don't think Cavallo gets a fair shake sometimes, he was instrumental in bringing the band out of it's musical funk, and he actually remembered Carter was in the band.

[crashintonickdm]

Cavallo isnt bad, at all.

he didnt write you and me.

[jaymas9]

Originally Posted by aronofsky41

I think YOU'RE the one with the hearing problem.



I don't see a distinction between production and quality of the music. Performance / arrangement IS part of the quality.



I don't think, from a songwriting perspective, Big Eyed Fish and Digging a Ditch are anything special - very standard guitar chords, melodies etc. But Steve's production of them made them special tracks on tLWS. They are middling, mediocre, meh nothings on Busted Stuff IMO.

While part of this is true, honestly the biggest difference between tLWS and BS musically on some songs, is the total lack of Roi on BS. Lillywhite had him playing sax like a fusion of traditional Roi/lead guitar player (since they didn't have one). This was going to lead to a unique album. And honestly, tLWS sessions were so raw production wise from what Lillywhite had done (especially on BTCS). There was so much more to go from that standpoint, Carter's snare wasn't even at vintage lillywhite carter snare yet.

[jaymas9]

Originally Posted by crashintonickdm

Cavallo isnt bad, at all.

he didnt write you and me.

. Agreed. I'll honestly always wonder what a Roi/Rob total collaboration could have led to...especially knowing how much they instantly were on the same page. That first 5 seconds from the first video in 2008 from Seattle, had more Roi in it, than any song on BW, and the best part, it was awesome, yet different from lillywhite Roi. It would have been so cool to see what another producer who really understood the guy could have ended up making with him and the band.