** College Football Season ** - Page 4178 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 11-23-2016, 06:28 AM   #125311
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Re: ** College Football Season **

Okay so the OSU vs Michigan game isn't as big as I thought, will still be fun though, go Michigan
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  • Old 11-23-2016, 06:30 AM   #125312
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    The way I see it. Bama, winner of Michigan/OSU, Clemson, and Washington all win out, they should all 4 be in.

    If Washington falls, then I like a Penn State B1G champ over a 2 loss PAC 12 champ. I also like PSU over the Big 12 champ (at least on paper; I could be convinced otherwise if PSU squeaks by Wisconsin and the Bedlam winner just blows the other team out).

    If Wisconsin were to beat Michigan in the B1G championship game, they should be in (and maybe as the B1G's sole representative), because in that scenario all the top B1G teams would have 2 losses. If Wisconsin were to beat Penn State in the B1G championship game, it would mean Ohio State is already in, so they would have to be weighted against the Big 12 champ and PAC 12 champ. Penn State would basically be Wisconsin's only big win of the year. I'm not sure that would be enough to get them in over the PAC 12 or Big 12 champ.

    If Clemson falls, then this whole thing falls to shit and gets very confusing. I think I'm still inclined to like a 2 loss Clemson over the Big 12 champ, but that gets very messy with conference politics, especially if a 2 loss Clemson isn't the ACC champ.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:31 AM   #125313
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MOWJO8185 View Post
    If Penn State wins the Big Ten they certainly have a case for getting in, depending on what happens in the other conferences. What they would not have is a case to get in over Ohio State, IMO.
    Why

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    yeah if ohio state beats michigan they are just better than penn state; no need for any tiebreakers. don't really see how that's in question.
    why

    What if Penn State cleans Michigan States clock this weekend? Whereas the buckeyes needed a risky and failing play call to eek out the win against MSU.

    Or does the week 4 PSU game mean that much to you? Or is Oklahoma and Wisconsin (who has weak resume) the big factor here?

    To say that if PSU wins the Big 10 that Ohio State should still get in over them is ludicrous.

    Last edited by dre2142; 11-23-2016 at 06:34 AM.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:35 AM   #125314
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dre2142 View Post
    Why



    why

    What if Penn State cleans Michigan States clock this weekend? Whereas the buckeyes needed a risky and failing play call to eek out the win against MSU.

    Or does the week 4 PSU game mean that much to you?
    Advanced stats and who is "better" aside, resumes as they stand now:

    Penn State - 1 win over a ranked team, 1 loss to a ranked team, 1 loss to an unranked team.

    Ohio State - 3 wins over ranked teams, 1 loss to a ranked team.

    If Ohio State beats Michigan, Ohio State will be adding a win over the current #3 team to their resume. Penn State will then play the #6 team in the conference championship game. Ohio State's resume is already better, and can only widen that gap with the opponents each has left.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:36 AM   #125315
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    If OSU vs Michigan turns into a blowout it's OSU blowing out Michigan right?
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:39 AM   #125316
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emu513 View Post
    Texas may be handling Strong less than ideal but a week of purgatory is still way better than whatever LSU did with Miles this season.
    yep, he should have been gone after last season
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:40 AM   #125317
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34 View Post
    If OSU vs Michigan turns into a blowout it's OSU blowing out Michigan right?
    Almost definitely. Ohio State seems to go into video game mode 2-3 times a year under Meyer. When those games happen, they are pretty much untouchable.

    They already used one against Nebraska. I'm not sure Rutgers and Maryland count as Ohio State going into super-mode. I think those games were more just a statement of how bad Rutgers and Maryland are.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:44 AM   #125318
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    All in all....I think Michigan State will be a tough game and this may all be moot. lol
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:44 AM   #125319
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MOWJO8185 View Post
    Advanced stats and who is "better" aside, resumes as they stand now:

    Penn State - 1 win over a ranked team, 1 loss to a ranked team, 1 loss to an unranked team.

    Ohio State - 3 wins over ranked teams, 1 loss to a ranked team.

    If Ohio State beats Michigan, Ohio State will be adding a win over the current #3 team to their resume. Penn State will then play the #6 team in the conference championship game. Ohio State's resume is already better, and can only widen that gap with the opponents each has left.
    I've gone through this before, but one more time (Ohio State vs Penn State):

    Ohio State will have better wins (including road wins over 2 teams currently in the top 10), less losses, it's sole loss was a better loss (close on the road to a top 10 team), tougher schedule.

    Penn State still has a more than 50% chance of getting into the playoff if they win out, but they need Washington or Clemson (unlikely) to lose once more.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:52 AM   #125320
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Yesterday the committee head said that he didn't see OSU and PSU being close at all and reiterated that conference championships are used when all else is equal. They're already pulling that card two weeks out. So no, OSU and PSU are not competing for the same playoff spot. That's pretty much settled. PSU would be competing with Washington most likely.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 06:53 AM   #125321
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dre2142 View Post
    All in all....I think Michigan State will be a tough game and this may all be moot. lol
    And if Speight was playing for Michigan, I'd have Michigan beating OSU for sure. Their backup QB is very questionable. But OSU will probably still lose and make all of this look ridiculous.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:39 AM   #125322
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    [QUOTE=MOWJO8185;16648874]The way I see it. Bama, winner of Michigan/OSU, Clemson, and Washington all win out, they should all 4 be in.

    If Washington falls, then I like a Penn State B1G champ over a 2 loss PAC 12 champ. I also like PSU over the Big 12 champ (at least on paper; I could be convinced otherwise if PSU squeaks by Wisconsin and the Bedlam winner just blows the other team out).QUOTE]


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MOWJO8185 View Post
    Advanced stats and who is "better" aside, resumes as they stand now:

    Penn State - 1 win over a ranked team, 1 loss to a ranked team, 1 loss to an unranked team.

    Ohio State - 3 wins over ranked teams, 1 loss to a ranked team.

    If Ohio State beats Michigan, Ohio State will be adding a win over the current #3 team to their resume. Penn State will then play the #6 team in the conference championship game. Ohio State's resume is already better, and can only widen that gap with the opponents each has left.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emu513 View Post
    Yesterday the committee head said that he didn't see OSU and PSU being close at all and reiterated that conference championships are used when all else is equal. They're already pulling that card two weeks out. So no, OSU and PSU are not competing for the same playoff spot. That's pretty much settled. PSU would be competing with Washington most likely.
    It does appear now that PSU and Ohio St are no longer competing for the same spot... BUT if you heard Joey Galloway and Danny Kanell last night, they did have an issue with a PSU B1G champ getting left out for Ohio St, which is the point I've been makin the last few weeks in this thread, that it would be a tough sell from the committee to the country and not just PSU fans would have a problem with it.

    There point was not that they have a problem with Ohio St being ranked above PSU, I don't have a problem with that, but there problem is with PSU being left out for Ohio St.

    Washington losing a game would be huge for PSU, but I think PSU would still have a case over 1 loss Washington. Would be close IMO, but if you look at Washington's SOS it's not great. PSU would have 2 wins better than any on Washington's resume, but Washington would have 1 less loss.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:44 AM   #125323
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    [QUOTE=CrushB610;16648944]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MOWJO8185 View Post
    The way I see it. Bama, winner of Michigan/OSU, Clemson, and Washington all win out, they should all 4 be in.

    If Washington falls, then I like a Penn State B1G champ over a 2 loss PAC 12 champ. I also like PSU over the Big 12 champ (at least on paper; I could be convinced otherwise if PSU squeaks by Wisconsin and the Bedlam winner just blows the other team out).QUOTE]






    It does appear now that PSU and Ohio St are no longer competing for the same spot... BUT if you heard Joey Galloway and Danny Kanell last night, they did have an issue with a PSU B1G champ getting left out for Ohio St, which is the point I've been makin the last few weeks in this thread, that it would be a tough sell from the committee to the country and not just PSU fans would have a problem with it.

    There point was not that they have a problem with Ohio St being ranked above PSU, I don't have a problem with that, but there problem is with PSU being left out for Ohio St.

    Washington losing a game would be huge for PSU, but I think PSU would still have a case over 1 loss Washington. Would be close IMO, but if you look at Washington's SOS it's not great. PSU would have 2 wins better than any on Washington's resume, but Washington would have 1 less loss.
    But you said their reasoning they would sell right there. They believe tOSU is a top 4 team, so they arent leaving PSU out for tOSU, they would be leaving them out for a 1 loss Pac12 winning Washington
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:46 AM   #125324
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    CFP scenarios are making my head hurt already.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:47 AM   #125325
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    [QUOTE=CrushB610;16648944]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MOWJO8185 View Post
    The way I see it. Bama, winner of Michigan/OSU, Clemson, and Washington all win out, they should all 4 be in.

    If Washington falls, then I like a Penn State B1G champ over a 2 loss PAC 12 champ. I also like PSU over the Big 12 champ (at least on paper; I could be convinced otherwise if PSU squeaks by Wisconsin and the Bedlam winner just blows the other team out).QUOTE]






    It does appear now that PSU and Ohio St are no longer competing for the same spot... BUT if you heard Joey Galloway and Danny Kanell last night, they did have an issue with a PSU B1G champ getting left out for Ohio St, which is the point I've been makin the last few weeks in this thread, that it would be a tough sell from the committee to the country and not just PSU fans would have a problem with it.

    There point was not that they have a problem with Ohio St being ranked above PSU, I don't have a problem with that, but there problem is with PSU being left out for Ohio St.

    Washington losing a game would be huge for PSU, but I think PSU would still have a case over 1 loss Washington. Would be close IMO, but if you look at Washington's SOS it's not great. PSU would have 2 wins better than any on Washington's resume, but Washington would have 1 less loss.
    This just makes no sense. So Ohio State should be ranked ahead of Penn State but should not get into the playoff unless Penn State also does?
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:49 AM   #125326
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post

    It does appear now that PSU and Ohio St are no longer competing for the same spot... BUT if you heard Joey Galloway and Danny Kanell last night, they did have an issue with a PSU B1G champ getting left out for Ohio St, which is the point I've been makin the last few weeks in this thread, that it would be a tough sell from the committee to the country and not just PSU fans would have a problem with it.

    There point was not that they have a problem with Ohio St being ranked above PSU, I don't have a problem with that, but there problem is with PSU being left out for Ohio St.

    Washington losing a game would be huge for PSU, but I think PSU would still have a case over 1 loss Washington. Would be close IMO, but if you look at Washington's SOS it's not great. PSU would have 2 wins better than any on Washington's resume, but Washington would have 1 less loss.
    You keep sayign that in the bold, but it's just untrue. 2 of ESPN's 75 analysts does not mean "the country". The vast majority of college football fans would think Ohio State is more worthy than Penn State in those circumstances, so "the country" would not have a problem with it. Penn State being left out over Ohio State would be the correct choice, if you are looking for the best team / team with the best resume.

    Big 10 champion Penn State and Pac 12 champion Washington could be an interesting debate. We'll see how the SoS looks like at the end of the season, and then Happy Valleyers can make their case. Still a long way to go though if we even have to think about that.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:54 AM   #125327
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    I don't like the thought of a non-division winning, non-conference champion getting into the playoffs, but it's undeniable that Ohio State is one of the best four teams in the country and I don't think it'd be a tough sell at all to CFB fans.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:56 AM   #125328
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    [QUOTE=TheLastPig;16648950]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post

    But you said their reasoning they would sell right there. They believe tOSU is a top 4 team, so they arent leaving PSU out for tOSU, they would be leaving them out for a 1 loss Pac12 winning Washington
    But Ohio St would be taking one of those 4 spots. They would have to explain in detail why a team that won the division Ohio St was in, the conference they were in, and beat them head to head is left out of the playoff completely while Ohio St gets in. Ohio St has a good resume but at times they've not looked like a top 4 team, not even a top 25 team, other times they have looked like the clear cut 2nd best team in the country. More than just tiebreakers when looking at teams - head to head, conference/ division champion should mean something.

    Again, I think the more likely scenario is that both PSU and Ohio St get in, but as I said regardless of it being PSU/Ohio St it's a bad precedent to set imo.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:57 AM   #125329
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    I don't like the thought of a non-division winning, non-conference champion getting into the playoffs, but it's undeniable that Ohio State is one of the best four teams in the country and I don't think it'd be a tough sell at all to CFB fans.*


    *if they beat Michigan (obviously)
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    Old 11-23-2016, 07:59 AM   #125330
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post

    But Ohio St would be taking one of those 4 spots. They would have to explain in detail why a team that won the division Ohio St was in, the conference they were in, and beat them head to head is left out of the playoff completely while Ohio St gets in. Ohio St has a good resume but at times they've not looked like a top 4 team, not even a top 25 team, other times they have looked like the clear cut 2nd best team in the country. More than just tiebreakers when looking at teams - head to head, conference/ division champion should mean something.

    Again, I think the more likely scenario is that both PSU and Ohio St get in, but as I said regardless of it being PSU/Ohio St it's a bad precedent to set imo.
    Again:
    Ohio State would have better wins (including wins against 2 top 10 teams on the road, I believe the only team in the country to do that), less losses, a "better" loss against a tougher SoS. If that's only a good resume to you, then Penn State's resume (with a H2H against tOSU and the Big 10 Championship) shouldn't even be considered for a playoff spot.

    Conference championship and H2H does mean something. Without either of those, Penn State wouldn't even be in consideration, and probably looking at the Outback Bowl.

    Last edited by Lee3691; 11-23-2016 at 08:01 AM.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:00 AM   #125331
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post

    But Ohio St would be taking one of those 4 spots. They would have to explain in detail why a team that won the division Ohio St was in, the conference they were in, and beat them head to head is left out of the playoff completely while Ohio St gets in. Ohio St has a good resume but at times they've not looked like a top 4 team, not even a top 25 team, other times they have looked like the clear cut 2nd best team in the country. More than just tiebreakers when looking at teams - head to head, conference/ division champion should mean something.

    Again, I think the more likely scenario is that both PSU and Ohio St get in, but as I said regardless of it being PSU/Ohio St it's a bad precedent to set imo.

    I mean its not hard to figure out why. PSU squeaked out a win over tOSU. PSU lost to Pitt, and were getting beat badly before a late comeback attempt, and got crushed my Michigan. tOSU would have a win over Michigan. Plus the eye test favors tOSU greatly.

    Im not totally disagreeing with you because I dont like the precedent the committee has set with basically disregarding who wins divisions/conferences unless they are using it as a tiebreaker, but this is where we are.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:00 AM   #125332
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
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    *if they beat Michigan (obviously)
    Yeah, that.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:00 AM   #125333
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tiduwho View Post
    Can't wait to find out which Big 10 team gets royally screwed due to this 4 team playoff business.

    8 teams solves everything, the end. There is no real actual argument for more than that, and dumb 4 team supporters need to be stop pretending there is a slippery slope.

    The fact is, 4 teams is NOT working. It is a failing system.
    "failing system" 3 years in. 8 teams is unecessary. If PSU wanted a better shot at the Playoffs they shouldn't have lost to Pitt.


    Quote:
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    CFP scenarios are making my head hurt already.
    Yeah all this "what if" is pointless, but entertaining talk.

    Said it a million times, either go undefeated or lose 1 game to a good team. If you have two losses you have no room to cry about getting left out. Every year is different, but it's going to be a "special" reason to let a two loss team in anytime soon.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:04 AM   #125334
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
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    "failing system" 3 years in. 8 teams is unecessary. If PSU wanted a better shot at the Playoffs they shouldn't have lost to Pitt.

    .
    I dont think its failing, per se, but its definitely opened up alot of doors for skepticism and favoritism that werent previously there.

    Im not trying to open up the 8 team argument again, but if we had that, then you wouldnt have to worry about a team like PSU who beat a top 4 team H2H and won their conference missing the playoff. Personally, I would rather have that, it removes alot of the debate.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:12 AM   #125335
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    It's going to go to 8 teams eventually, the question is when?
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:12 AM   #125336
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lee3691 View Post
    You keep sayign that in the bold, but it's just untrue. 2 of ESPN's 75 analysts does not mean "the country". The vast majority of college football fans would think Ohio State is more worthy than Penn State in those circumstances, so "the country" would not have a problem with it. Penn State being left out over Ohio State would be the correct choice, if you are looking for the best team / team with the best resume.

    Big 10 champion Penn State and Pac 12 champion Washington could be an interesting debate. We'll see how the SoS looks like at the end of the season, and then Happy Valleyers can make their case. Still a long way to go though if we even have to think about that.
    Well 2 of the 4 analysts on the show had a problem with it and I think Rece was leaning that way too. Soooo..

    I think it would be easier to put 2 B1G teams in over Washington rather then keeping PSU out.. avoid criticism. PSU will have a better resume between the two.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by snow1868 View Post
    I don't like the thought of a non-division winning, non-conference champion getting into the playoffs, but it's undeniable that Ohio State is one of the best four teams in the country and I don't think it'd be a tough sell at all to CFB fans.
    I don't have a problem with non-division , non-conference champ getting into the playoffs.. my problem is when that team gets in over a team that won the division and conference championship and beat them head to head.

    Sorry if my posts are gettin screwed up when I'm trying to quote other posts.. not sure what the deal is.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:15 AM   #125337
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post
    I don't have a problem with non-division , non-conference champ getting into the playoffs.. my problem is when that team gets in over a team that won the division and conference championship and beat them head to head.

    Sorry if my posts are gettin screwed up when I'm trying to quote other posts.. not sure what the deal is.
    The problem with that argument though, is what if that team that wins the conference loses two OOC games? Thats basically where OU is sitting now, its a little different because there isnt another B12 team above them, but the point stands. Winning a conference doesnt make you one of the 4 best teams, even if you were the only team to beat one of the top 4.
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    You hit some nerves because some people rely on logic and facts.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:16 AM   #125338
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CrushB610 View Post
    Well 2 of the 4 analysts on the show had a problem with it and I think Rece was leaning that way too. Soooo..

    I think it would be easier to put 2 B1G teams in over Washington rather then keeping PSU out.. avoid criticism. PSU will have a better resume between the two.



    I don't have a problem with non-division , non-conference champ getting into the playoffs.. my problem is when that team gets in over a team that won the division and conference championship and beat them head to head.

    Sorry if my posts are gettin screwed up when I'm trying to quote other posts.. not sure what the deal is.
    I can see a case for Penn State having a better resume than Washington, even if Washington doesn't lose again, but it will not be easier for the committee to do this. The committee is a bunch of conference shills who basically are lobbying for their own conference to be included in the playoff. A 1 loss Washington PAC-12 champ will get in over PSU. Now, if Washington drops another game, that could change, and I think the resumes would definitely favor PSU. But even then, I'm not sure I trust the committee to double up on a single conference even if that conference has 2 of the best 4 teams until I see it happen. Too many competing interests.

    Last edited by MOWJO8185; 11-23-2016 at 08:17 AM.
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:16 AM   #125339
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLastPig View Post
    I dont think its failing, per se, but its definitely opened up alot of doors for skepticism and favoritism that werent previously there.

    Im not trying to open up the 8 team argument again, but if we had that, then you wouldnt have to worry about a team like PSU who beat a top 4 team H2H and won their conference missing the playoff. Personally, I would rather have that, it removes alot of the debate.
    Agreed not trying to get back into that, but I do believe favortism was there in the BCS and it would be in the 8 team playoff. Bias will always exist. Committee should do blind resumes imo

    These conference championship games act as elimination games so it's already similar to an 8 team playoff. They've eliminated teams before. 2008 SECCG #1 Alabama lost to #2 Florida. Bama went to the Sugar Bowl and Florida won the BCS. 2009 SECCG #1 Florida lost to #2 Alabama. Florida goes to the Sugar Bowl and Alabama wins the BCS.

    There's your early playoff elimination games. Hell, it'll probably happen in the B1G CCG this year!
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    Old 11-23-2016, 08:18 AM   #125340
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    Re: ** College Football Season **

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Agreed not trying to get back into that, but I do believe favortism was there in the BCS and it would be in the 8 team playoff. Bias will always exist. Committee should do blind resumes imo

    These conference championship games act as elimination games so it's already similar to an 8 team playoff. They've eliminated teams before. 2008 SECCG #1 Alabama lost to #2 Florida. Bama went to the Sugar Bowl and Florida won the BCS. 2009 SECCG #1 Florida lost to #2 Alabama. Florida goes to the Sugar Bowl and Alabama wins the BCS.

    There's your early playoff elimination games. Hell, it'll probably happen in the B1G CCG this year!
    Youre only citing the SEC though, and they almost always have 2 teams vying for a top spot. That clearly wont be the case for the B1G or the B12 (even if we had a CG) this year.

    EDIT: also, BCS was a computer system so im not sure how bias existed.
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    Quote:
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    You hit some nerves because some people rely on logic and facts.

    Last edited by TheLastPig; 11-23-2016 at 08:19 AM.
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