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Old 06-09-2022, 09:19 PM   #61
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Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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I think that Tim Reynolds was at least the 3rd choice by the time he joined in 2008.
I thought more about this and I should consider that perhaps Tim was the first choice, said no, then eventually said yes. I've never asked him when he was first asked to join the band again.

My comment really only relates to this thread in that Norlander is also obviously very interested in learning about / solving various DMB mysteries. The decision to abort the Lillywhite Sessions was the turning point, and it set the stage for what has been 20+ years of intrigue. But the more I think about it, maybe the period of time leading up to the Lillywhite Sessions should be more closely looked at in addition to the sessions themselves? Norlander discussed things that have been rumored about as far as why Dave may been feeling down, and of course he & Lillywhite cast doubt on the entire premise that he was feeling overly down anyway. But I can't help but wonder what might have led up to the Lillwhite Sessions, more on the business side than band side, that may have put extra pressure on the band & Flohr? Perhaps the early returns, combined with some disappointment in BTCS' commercial success, might have played more of a role in the sessions being aborted than the band "not feeling it" ?

I think that Lillywhite thinks that Flohr caused the band to mutiny, and I agree with him. I think Flohr convinced the band to give up because he needed to have an industry darling type of record to recover from the dip between Crash & BTCS. Everyday was what he wanted to do, and he convinced the band to do it. Everyday had the commercial success that he & RCA wanted from the band, the success that Lillywhite Sessions, in his eyes, couldn't have. The leak forced him to reconsider, and it should be noted that the biggest difference between Busted Stuff & Lillywhite Sessions is the radio friendly nature, specifically the hit Where Are You Going. IF Where Are You Going had existed during the Lillywhite Sessions, might that have been enough to convince Flohr not to pull the plug? You never know.
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  • Old 06-09-2022, 09:23 PM   #62
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Thanks for the response Carson…

    I have no recollection of them possibly working w Ballard again. When was this supposed session?

    Side note, who was the producer for the 2004 sessions?
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    Old 06-09-2022, 09:25 PM   #63
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Batson referring to Cavallo as the "Green Day Guy" in what seems to be a sort of mocking way is peak humor for me. Mostly because he's twice the producer Batson is and actually got good work out of the band.

    If I remember correctly he also hit it off with Roi and we probably woulda had a lot more sax on whatever BW was gonna be.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 09:36 PM   #64
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    American Idiot is one of my favorite albums of all time.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 09:58 PM   #65
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    First bolded: I definitely believe you, I want to make that clear. And that would answer a lot of long lingering questions about this album process. I just have a question about what would Flohr/the label realistically do to change the outcome of how this album charts or sells? Especially based on the songs themselves? I feel like at this point in the band's career, whoever is going to buy the DMB album will buy it, and whoever won't, won't. I would understand if we saw them try to market Come Tomorrow in any way, but they really didn't. None of the CT songs were in movies, tv shows, commercials, Spotify playlists, or any of the other ways labels market their stuff in the streaming era. This became long winded but I'm just curious about the role the label would play in a DMB album in 2022.

    Secondly, did Dave and Co. ask Ballard to produce the next album after Everyday? I know you've mentioned the second Ballard sessions with him and Dave, but was Ballard officially the guy they wanted for the next one?
    It would be easy for me to say " I don't know" and agree with your points but that's not the answer you want. So, my opinion is that perhaps people like Bruce Flohr (whom may or may not even have much say in things anymore) might be more apt to encourage Dave to keep looking through old tracks, keep writing, in order to find that "where are you going" type of hit. I think ego probably plays a huge role for all parties and I'm sure someone wants a hit. I think that if they were interested in shitting out commercially unsuccessful records they'd do it more often. I think there might be hesitancy after records like Come Tomorrow & AFTW didn't have the success that Big Whiskey did. But I don't know if RCA or Flohr still weigh heavily on decisions at all, it's just that I tend to think there is more to it than Dave apparently wanting to perfect something. It might be more important for Dave to believe it's his choice to improve his next album than for that to be the truth.

    So, might Dave want to keep recording in hopes of finding another hit? Perhaps. Or perhaps he was encouraged to do so? Or, maybe he was politely told that he needed to add something more to the record before a label was excited about distributing it? Maybe. I think it would be tough to get very direct answers on those kinds of questions, so I cannot say for certain.

    If I'm paying to distribute the new album, paying to promote it, paying for it to have the level of success that I want it to have, I'm not concerned with the fans who will buy my record no matter what. I'm concerned with the random people that I can rope in with a radio/viral hits. So I need those hits, simple as that.

    As for the Ballard question, I think that if you asked Glen Ballard if he was asked to produce the follow up to Everyday he would say yes. And he'd probably say that he decided that it was best not too, because he knew how much the fans disliked him. I'm not sure if he'd go on record with those answers. I'd also guess that he didn't like the negative attention he got from the Lillywhite leak fallout. And I'm definitely not sure what Flohr would say, though he would know exactly who he considered and in what order. My guess is that Harris wasn't the first choice.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:05 PM   #66
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Carson, do you happen to know how long Cavallo worked with the band in 08 before the band hit the road that summer? I've always felt that the sessions were rushed that Winter/Spring of '09 and that they were just doing their best to build around what they had left over of Roi rather than really trying to develop the songs. And was the plan always to have that album (even before Summer 08) out by Spring 09 or were they going to try to have it out earlier?
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:09 PM   #67
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    It would be easy for me to say " I don't know" and agree with your points but that's not the answer you want. So, my opinion is that perhaps people like Bruce Flohr (whom may or may not even have much say in things anymore) might be more apt to encourage Dave to keep looking through old tracks, keep writing, in order to find that "where are you going" type of hit. I think ego probably plays a huge role for all parties and I'm sure someone wants a hit. I think that if they were interested in shitting out commercially unsuccessful records they'd do it more often. I think there might be hesitancy after records like Come Tomorrow & AFTW didn't have the success that Big Whiskey did. But I don't know if RCA or Flohr still weigh heavily on decisions at all, it's just that I tend to think there is more to it than Dave apparently wanting to perfect something. It might be more important for Dave to believe it's his choice to improve his next album than for that to be the truth.

    So, might Dave want to keep recording in hopes of finding another hit? Perhaps. Or perhaps he was encouraged to do so? Or, maybe he was politely told that he needed to add something more to the record before a label was excited about distributing it? Maybe. I think it would be tough to get very direct answers on those kinds of questions, so I cannot say for certain.

    If I'm paying to distribute the new album, paying to promote it, paying for it to have the level of success that I want it to have, I'm not concerned with the fans who will buy my record no matter what. I'm concerned with the random people that I can rope in with a radio/viral hits. So I need those hits, simple as that.

    As for the Ballard question, I think that if you asked Glen Ballard if he was asked to produce the follow up to Everyday he would say yes. And he'd probably say that he decided that it was best not too, because he knew how much the fans disliked him. I'm not sure if he'd go on record with those answers. I'd also guess that he didn't like the negative attention he got from the Lillywhite leak fallout. And I'm definitely not sure what Flohr would say, though he would know exactly who he considered and in what order. My guess is that Harris wasn't the first choice.
    I appreciate it, as always, Carson. Just hope we can finally hear what they've been working on.

    It would be great if we could convince management to let you work on a docu-mini series for shit like this There's just so much we don't know.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:16 PM   #68
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    I think Cavallo was a fantastic producer for albums like American Idiot and The Black Parade. Those are two iconic albums of the 00's. I think he did an okay job on Big Whiskey... I hear the potential in those songs but Cavallo is notorious for being a "one-take Jake" type of producer... I've heard him in interviews say that the most passion is in those first 3 takes. And I think that translated to Dave's songwriting. A lot of the lyrics on Big Whiskey feel like first drafts.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:33 PM   #69
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    I think Cavallo was a fantastic producer for albums like American Idiot and The Black Parade. Those are two iconic albums of the 00's. I think he did an okay job on Big Whiskey... I hear the potential in those songs but Cavallo is notorious for being a "one-take Jake" type of producer... I've heard him in interviews say that the most passion is in those first 3 takes. And I think that translated to Dave's songwriting. A lot of the lyrics on Big Whiskey feel like first drafts.
    I say this a lot around here, but I really believe Cavallo is the best producer for this version of DMB. He has great rock instincts but is also really playful in his layering and recording. I think he unlocks the best of what this band wants to be. The Cavallo relationship is the Carson mystery I'm the most obsessed with because there was just SO. MUCH. music that was basically done that we haven't heard. And not even just the Cavallo Sessions. It seems like Dave was ready to keep working with Cavallo, but then it just didn't happen.

    I'm obviously not Carson, but it's always been my speculation that the earlier 08 studio sessions were just really slow going. And that by the time they had to go on tour, they just didn't have much to work with, at least in terms of complete ideas. This is a band that will never hesitate to play new songs whenever they want to- it's actually funny because for as much trouble as they have releasing studio efforts, they LOVE new songs. And they weren't playing any in 08. My bet is they planned to return to the studio after the tour keep grinding and maybe that album never saw the light of day like so many others.

    I think a lot of Big Whiskey was REALLY, truly crafted after Roi died. I bet it lit a fire under them, Dave especially, to work like hell to complete that album. We know they recorded a ton of songs for BW, (and as Carson has mentioned even recorded songs AFTER those sessions) since there were the LRB songs and Cornbread and #27 (and then I swear I heard Shotgun was even in the mix). I think the "rushed" feeling came from having the Spring 09 goal, and, just like with CT and now this album, they probably had a hard time deciding what would go where. And then it felt like the Spring mix that was leaked wasn't quite finished so once they decided what tracks were going to make BW, they took those extra months to polish?
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:34 PM   #70
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    (Carson, thank you so much for sharing, bud. I love reading your posts; always insightful, and I appreciate you for that. Cheers, pal!)

    These episodes have been very interesting. I was really stuck by the reveal in EP 2 that Steve mixed what we know as The Lillywhite Sessions in a single morning... that he was listening to each song only once or twice through, then pressing play and mixing on the fly, working the faders in real time to print the mix that went on the CD for the band to take with them for the summer. All in just a few hours. Flippin' cool to know that.

    I can't even imagine how good Steve could have made this record sound if given the chance to come back later that year with the band to tweak, re-record as needed, add layers (and possibly add some other musicians as he mentioned), finalize the tracking and properly mix it all, etc. Would have been absolutely incredible.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 10:37 PM   #71
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    Thanks for the response Carson…

    I have no recollection of them possibly working w Ballard again. When was this supposed session?

    Side note, who was the producer for the 2004 sessions?
    The session was in December, 2001. There is a rolling stone article that mentions it and I can't find it right now but someone will dig it up. If I remember correctly the article states that Ballard won't produce the next album. I think the session's goal was just to write new songs to help complete/round out Busted Stuff.

    I don't know for certain on 2004. I'd guess that it was Alagia, but there is another part of me that wants to believe that it was T Bone Burnett. I don't have much basis for that theory other than I know they have written/recorded together.


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    Carson, do you happen to know how long Cavallo worked with the band in 08 before the band hit the road that summer? I've always felt that the sessions were rushed that Winter/Spring of '09 and that they were just doing their best to build around what they had left over of Roi rather than really trying to develop the songs. And was the plan always to have that album (even before Summer 08) out by Spring 09 or were they going to try to have it out earlier?
    Off hand I don't know, but it's possible that it could be researched and figured out. That would have been the pre-production Seattle session, right? Or was that late 2007? I forget these things sometimes.

    And it's really tough to say when the band wanted or expected to have anything released. The only specific note that I can recall was from the infamous Stan, who was told by Cavallo that the album would be delayed from the initial April expectation. That's a thread worth reading, or at least Stan's posts were worth reading. Maybe someone can link it.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:01 PM   #72
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Thanks for all the positive feedback, I do this for YOU. And thank you to Matt Norlander as well if he's reading. Good luck to you if you pursue other DMB mysteries. Especially the 2nd Ballard session & the 2nd Cavallo album, and maybe the T Bone Burnett thing too while you're at it!
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:06 PM   #73
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    I think Cavallo was a fantastic producer for albums like American Idiot and The Black Parade. Those are two iconic albums of the 00's. I think he did an okay job on Big Whiskey... I hear the potential in those songs but Cavallo is notorious for being a "one-take Jake" type of producer... I've heard him in interviews say that the most passion is in those first 3 takes. And I think that translated to Dave's songwriting. A lot of the lyrics on Big Whiskey feel like first drafts.
    I don't remember him as a one take guy? There was a scene in the road to BW doc where he showed the camera his like grading sheet for takes and what his marks met and I swear there was like 30 on the sheet for whatever song they were tracking haha.

    I also think the 07, 08 sessions in Charlottesville and Seattle produced a lot because there was so much Roi on stuff in the behind the scenes docs.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:06 PM   #74
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Still wish the 2015, 2016 Cavallo album happened. The songs from Come Tomorrow that he produced are the best songs on the record. Though I don't agree with the handling of Black and Blue Bird.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:15 PM   #75
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Carson, I think I found the Rolling Stone article.
    It’s dated Dec 4, 2001 but doesn’t make mention of working w Ballard that month

    This is a quote from that article “I’m not sure if we’ll work with him again,” Matthews said of Ballard. “I think we might just do it ourselves this time.”

    Another very interesting one
    During an October 14th solo set at the Groundwork Festival in Seattle, Matthews debuted one new song, apparently titled, “Where Are You Going,” a tip of a big iceberg. “I think we’ve got a surplus now,” Matthews says. “Something like twenty-five new ones.”

    That prob included the Lillywhite Sessions songs but still, never heard there were that many new songs around at that time
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:18 PM   #76
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    So Build You a House is listed as "also recorded but cut from the album" when there was no album, thought it was interesting there was no mention of it on the podcast.

    I went back and listened to Monkey Man tonight for the first time since probably just after college in 07 when I first got tLWS from a friend, cool song, his voice sounds good on it
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:38 PM   #77
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    Carson, I think I found the Rolling Stone article.
    It’s dated Dec 4, 2001 but doesn’t make mention of working w Ballard that month

    This is a quote from that article “I’m not sure if we’ll work with him again,” Matthews said of Ballard. “I think we might just do it ourselves this time.”

    Another very interesting one
    During an October 14th solo set at the Groundwork Festival in Seattle, Matthews debuted one new song, apparently titled, “Where Are You Going,” a tip of a big iceberg. “I think we’ve got a surplus now,” Matthews says. “Something like twenty-five new ones.”

    That prob included the Lillywhite Sessions songs but still, never heard there were that many new songs around at that time
    That article kept coming up when I searched but I found the one I was thinking of: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...franco-246362/

    The funny thing about the “I’m not sure if we’ll work with him again,” quote is that Dave probably recorded with Ballard the day it was printed.
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    Old 06-09-2022, 11:45 PM   #78
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    That article kept coming up when I searched but I found the one I was thinking of: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...franco-246362/

    The funny thing about the “I’m not sure if we’ll work with him again,” quote is that Dave probably recorded with Ballard the day it was printed.
    When do the other 10 or so songs from that time period leak? 😂
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    Old 06-10-2022, 01:10 AM   #79
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Is this what being on the boards early/mid 2000's was like?

    Such cool insight, thank you Carson.

    And if anyone in the band is actually reading this, well, I'm Counting the Stars knowing how grateful I am for DMB
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    Old 06-10-2022, 01:23 AM   #80
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    I thought more about this and I should consider that perhaps Tim was the first choice, said no, then eventually said yes. I've never asked him when he was first asked to join the band again.

    My comment really only relates to this thread in that Norlander is also obviously very interested in learning about / solving various DMB mysteries. The decision to abort the Lillywhite Sessions was the turning point, and it set the stage for what has been 20+ years of intrigue. But the more I think about it, maybe the period of time leading up to the Lillywhite Sessions should be more closely looked at in addition to the sessions themselves? Norlander discussed things that have been rumored about as far as why Dave may been feeling down, and of course he & Lillywhite cast doubt on the entire premise that he was feeling overly down anyway. But I can't help but wonder what might have led up to the Lillwhite Sessions, more on the business side than band side, that may have put extra pressure on the band & Flohr? Perhaps the early returns, combined with some disappointment in BTCS' commercial success, might have played more of a role in the sessions being aborted than the band "not feeling it" ?

    I think that Lillywhite thinks that Flohr caused the band to mutiny, and I agree with him. I think Flohr convinced the band to give up because he needed to have an industry darling type of record to recover from the dip between Crash & BTCS. Everyday was what he wanted to do, and he convinced the band to do it. Everyday had the commercial success that he & RCA wanted from the band, the success that Lillywhite Sessions, in his eyes, couldn't have. The leak forced him to reconsider, and it should be noted that the biggest difference between Busted Stuff & Lillywhite Sessions is the radio friendly nature, specifically the hit Where Are You Going. IF Where Are You Going had existed during the Lillywhite Sessions, might that have been enough to convince Flohr not to pull the plug? You never know.
    Fck ya. Everyday sessions was the best thing to happen to Bruce Flohr! I always felt Flohr saw tLWS re-developing into another BTCS (for him, professionally), and literally thought to himself, '...this band could either have
    Radiohead prestige, or
    Boy Band jackpot-payday
    with their '99-2000, next studio album.'
    That latter notion was like money just sitting on the table ...dough that'd been accumulating for almost two years, since their last non-Crash studio release.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 02:11 AM   #81
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Carson, I love reading about the behind the scenes history thank you for the info!!
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    Old 06-10-2022, 05:13 AM   #82
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    I’m surprised Norlander didn’t bring up that infamous quote attributed to Bruce Flohr… the “where’s the Trippin Billies?”

    Also, I find it be complete bullshit that Flohr would be upset at BTCS not selling as well as Crash. Because well that may be technically true, the album still went #1 and the band was playing STADIUMS in 2000. It wasn’t like their popularity dwindled after BTCS; it seemed to only get bigger. And yeah, I’ve made the Radiohead comparison before too… tLWS could’ve been that Kid A type album that really took DMB to another level.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 07:53 AM   #83
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    I've always disagreed with the idea that tLWS being finished would have drastically changed where they were at in popularity

    * As mentioned they were playing stadiums already and one of if not the hottest band on the planet at the time

    * They are a live band, the shows at that time were full of songs from tLWS regardless of it being completed. Fans were excited to see these songs, it's not some mystery of how fans would have latched on to songs like Grey Street or Bartender had they finished the album and played them live.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 08:35 AM   #84
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eggsrsweet View Post
    I’m surprised Norlander didn’t bring up that infamous quote attributed to Bruce Flohr… the “where’s the Trippin Billies?”

    Also, I find it be complete bullshit that Flohr would be upset at BTCS not selling as well as Crash. Because well that may be technically true, the album still went #1 and the band was playing STADIUMS in 2000. It wasn’t like their popularity dwindled after BTCS; it seemed to only get bigger. And yeah, I’ve made the Radiohead comparison before too… tLWS could’ve been that Kid A type album that really took DMB to another level.
    Yeah this "dip" is shocking me too haha, it being a thing. Very very different time for the music industry though, so I'm gonna assume it's just related to that.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 09:30 AM   #85
    Moose Thompson
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

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    Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34 View Post
    So Build You a House is listed as "also recorded but cut from the album" when there was no album, thought it was interesting there was no mention of it on the podcast.

    I went back and listened to Monkey Man tonight for the first time since probably just after college in 07 when I first got tLWS from a friend, cool song, his voice sounds good on it
    Not sure what you mean, they discussed Build You A House on the podcast. Said it was probably an older song that hadn’t been used so they recorded it but it didn’t fit with the vibe of the other songs.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 11:51 AM   #86
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by eggsrsweet View Post
    I’m surprised Norlander didn’t bring up that infamous quote attributed to Bruce Flohr… the “where’s the Trippin Billies?”

    Also, I find it be complete bullshit that Flohr would be upset at BTCS not selling as well as Crash. Because well that may be technically true, the album still went #1 and the band was playing STADIUMS in 2000. It wasn’t like their popularity dwindled after BTCS; it seemed to only get bigger. And yeah, I’ve made the Radiohead comparison before too… tLWS could’ve been that Kid A type album that really took DMB to another level.
    I'm not sure if it was a matter of being upset, I think it was more along the lines of: Crash performed better, cost less to create and promote, had bigger hits, had a more positive/radio friendly vibe. BTCS was much darker, was more heavily promoted (both overseas and in the US), the production & promotion costs were higher, it lacked Too Much/So Much To Say/Billies or What Would You Say/Satellite/Ants type of hits, and ultimately was not as commercially successful as it's predecessor even though it cost more money than it's predecessor. I think that Flohr wanted to avoid the path he thought the band was on and correct it to something that was more popular for the LA crowd.

    It was kinda like Crash was a World Series Championship team and BTCS was a playoff team that got eliminated in the first round. Maybe BTCS was the better team (in the fans eyes) but Crash brought a championship parade to DMB, and once you taste that level of success anything less is failure. BTCS was great in many ways but it didn't eclipse its predecessor in any way that mattered to the music industry. I love BTCS so I don't want to come across as critical, I'm just trying to be objective and I genuinely believe that it not being as successful as Crash played a role in the plug being pulled on the Lillywhite Sessions.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 12:23 PM   #87
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    I completely agree w your take Carson, in terms of Flohr and RCA but at some point and especially at that point where the band had achieved huge success they (the band / Matthews) could’ve and should’ve put there foot down and said NO, this is what we have. This is our art. And not caved to that external pressure. Cause again at that time, they were the biggest band going.
    And I realize that Matthews self doubt plays a major role. Prob why Leroi told him at some point that he needs to step up and really lead the group.
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    Old 06-10-2022, 12:47 PM   #88
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    I wish Norlander could somehow bring Dave on and discuss these sessions. Although, I’m sure Dave wants no part in opening up old wounds and talking about all this lol…
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    Old 06-10-2022, 12:51 PM   #89
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    The session was in December, 2001. There is a rolling stone article that mentions it and I can't find it right now but someone will dig it up. If I remember correctly the article states that Ballard won't produce the next album. I think the session's goal was just to write new songs to help complete/round out Busted Stuff.

    I don't know for certain on 2004. I'd guess that it was Alagia, but there is another part of me that wants to believe that it was T Bone Burnett. I don't have much basis for that theory other than I know they have written/recorded together.




    Off hand I don't know, but it's possible that it could be researched and figured out. That would have been the pre-production Seattle session, right? Or was that late 2007? I forget these things sometimes.

    And it's really tough to say when the band wanted or expected to have anything released. The only specific note that I can recall was from the infamous Stan, who was told by Cavallo that the album would be delayed from the initial April expectation. That's a thread worth reading, or at least Stan's posts were worth reading. Maybe someone can link it.

    I remember hearing at some point that the 2004 sessions were going to be self produced. Was that not the case? I also thought I remembered hearing something about Trey guesting on Sugar Will during those sessions. Of course over the course of 20 years you hear things on here that are junk, but seeing AirCavMike mention 2004 made me remember that. Any insight?
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    Old 06-10-2022, 01:10 PM   #90
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    Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carson31 View Post
    I'm not sure if it was a matter of being upset, I think it was more along the lines of: Crash performed better, cost less to create and promote, had bigger hits, had a more positive/radio friendly vibe. BTCS was much darker, was more heavily promoted (both overseas and in the US), the production & promotion costs were higher, it lacked Too Much/So Much To Say/Billies or What Would You Say/Satellite/Ants type of hits, and ultimately was not as commercially successful as it's predecessor even though it cost more money than it's predecessor. I think that Flohr wanted to avoid the path he thought the band was on and correct it to something that was more popular for the LA crowd.

    It was kinda like Crash was a World Series Championship team and BTCS was a playoff team that got eliminated in the first round. Maybe BTCS was the better team (in the fans eyes) but Crash brought a championship parade to DMB, and once you taste that level of success anything less is failure. BTCS was great in many ways but it didn't eclipse its predecessor in any way that mattered to the music industry. I love BTCS so I don't want to come across as critical, I'm just trying to be objective and I genuinely believe that it not being as successful as Crash played a role in the plug being pulled on the Lillywhite Sessions.
    Definitely speaks more to the mindset of a lot of the industry at the time. Were not necessarily progressive thinkers.
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