Re: The NHL Thread
 

No, I didnt. He was with his kids.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

NHL soft as usual. Especially on their repeat offenders

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My journey to DC has begun. T minus 8 hours until puck drop of Oil/Caps!!! So so so....... Excited? (No.) (but happy to be seeing a game live)

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Fun to be at a game you have no vested interest in. Loved going to TO to watch the Sabres and Leafs about 11 years ago. Enjoy.

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people really think 6 games isn't enough for Carcillo?

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A first-time offender probably could have gotten off with 1-2 game suspension for an infraction like that. But again, when a guy has been suspended NINE times in nine years, maybe a more severe judgement needs to be levied to try to get through to this guy. Right now, at least to me, it's more about his track record than it is the actual infraction.

I mean, six games is just a normal pressbox stint for a guy like Carcillo, amirite?

Re: The NHL Thread
 

This for me too.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

This part made me giggle at the end of the Leafs/Canes game last night.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/?id=731324

Staal winds up and rips a slapshot into the EN with Phaneuf standing right in front. Earlier in the game, Staal fought Phaneuf after Phaneuf hit (cleanly, IMO) Jordan Staal.

You can tell by the extra long glare Staal gave Phaneuf after scoring that he knew EXACTLY what he was doing when he ripped that shot with Dion in front.

I don't condone trying to drill a player with the puck, but I do like Staal's fierce protectiveness for his brother. :lol

Re: The NHL Thread
 

but i think that's the point, he got 3-6 times the normal infraction, and it wasn't a hit to the head. i think 6 is adequate based on history, just surprised people think it should be more.

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Uh oh, we're disagreeing. Call the couples therapy place! :)

I just think when a guy's been suspended on average once a season for every season of his career, he might need a little more time off (and lost money) to see if this is really a trend he wants to continue.

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For a first time offender, it's way too many. For Carcillo, it's not even close to enough. For all the reasons Matty said

Guys like Carcill should be taking more like 15 games off for stuff like that

Re: The NHL Thread
 

so pens call up two goons for tonight's game and their coach threw them under the bus for their game against the rangers saying they were flat. gonna be some fireworks tonight.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I hate, hate, hate, hate Carcillo. That said, I think 6 is just about right for a crosscheck to the arm like that from him. I think at most you're looking at 7-8 games, and at the least it's 5. Maybe they could have said 7, but we're just splitting hairs there.

I think if Carcillo had thrown a nasty elbow or something like Ryan Suter's not too long ago, we're looking at something massive. But it was a crosscheck to the arm. Not really that dangerous of a play all things considered.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Agree on the nature of the play. Like I said in my first post, it's not like some of the headshots and stuff we've seen.

But if I'm the Department of Player Safety and this comes across my desk, I'm thinking, regardless of the nature of the play, "we're looking at ANOTHER one from this guy? I guess he's not getting it."

Re: The NHL Thread
 

#novestedinterest game update. Through Baltimore. 40 minutes or so til DC. I can already picture a non back checking Ovechkin.

Barbs. I'll tell Backstrom you want him in the ASG. #soresubject

#hashtags!!!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Bingo. It's all about the repeat offender angle, not as much the actual play. Obviously it's not the worst play we've ever seen, but it's still completely unnecessary and was only executed as a retaliatory play and was intended to injure.

Enough is enough. Throw the book at him, and throw it hard.

Yes, please do, although I think he's equally content to keep on flying under the radar. He loves it.

And I think you'll be surprised at Ovie's back check level.

#thetrotzeffect

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Kev, I've heard nothing but good about Ovechkin since Trotz came in, echoing what Barbs just alluded to (#thetrotzeffect). But I haven't watched much of the Caps this season, so I remain skeptical (although if anyone could do it, I have faith Trotz could).

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to keep an eye on Ovie every time he hits the ice tonight and report back to us. I'd be really interested in seeing how he acts shift-by-shift.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I mean I've watched him every single night this year. And I wouldn't exactly call myself biased, I've bashed Ovie plenty in here these past two years or so.

He's playing so much better, and it's very noticeable.

But the Trotz effect goes much deeper. All the forwards have been much more responsible, and they actually play as a team these days. And it shows in the numbers. Caps have more players with 10+ goals than anyone else (6 of them) and out of the 13 regular forwards, only 2 are minus players (Wilson, -2; Chimera, -1). All 6 defenseman are plus 3 or better, including guys like Green and Carlson who both had many defensive responsibility question marks follow them the past couple seasons. Those are staggeringly different from last year's numbers at this point in the season.

It's all Trotz.

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I need the Preds and Canucks to win tonight and a Wings win. That would put Wings first in the Atlantic. Come on baby.

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You're a guy I would trust. :thumbsup

All of that stuff is fantastic to see. It's like, everyone knew Trotz was a good coach. But all we've seen is what he was able to do in Nashville. There was always that question mark as to whether he could do it somewhere else. And so when he does do it somewhere else - and in WASHINGTON of all places - it's just awesome to see. Not completely unexpected, but awesome to see our high esteem for him validated.

But even so, I was extremely skeptical about Ovechkin. If he's making even remote strides at playing a team-oriented game, Trotz is on a level with Jesus.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Well, he really is. Ovie I mean. His effort level is as high as it's been since his rookie season. I can understand skepticism, it's not a long enough buy in to completely sell me either.

The biggest question remaining for me, what happens when the team gets to the playoffs? Certainly not making an assumption they'll be there yet, but if they do get there, how will Ovie/Trotz handle that? This team has become so accustomed to embarrassing themselves in the playoffs, can they work through that?

I actually think tonight is a good test to see exactly where this Caps team is. They're coming off two pretty tough road losses over the weekend, and this is a game they should easily win, but it's also a sleeper game that could be overlooked if they're not careful. Can they respond well after what happened over the weekend? My gut says yes, but I think it actually makes for a very interesting Tuesday vs the West game. A legit team takes care of business tonight no problem. Caps of last year would be all down of themselves after last weekend. We'll see who shows up tonight.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

For sure, I get that, but you can't suspend a guy 15+ games for a crosscheck. Just can't. I'm sick of Carcillo too, TRUST ME, probably more than anyone else here...you just can't suspend a guy that long for a crosscheck to the arm. It sets a crazy precedent.

As much as it sucks, it takes something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2mX7LqBGo4

To "throw the book" at someone. If it were that, then 40 games, a season, I don't care...Again, I hate Carcillo, but you just can't say "fuck this guy" at a crosscheck to the arm.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Mission accepted.

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I would argue that the only precedent it would set is that the NHL does not tolerate excessive repeat offenses. Which is a precedent that needs to be set, quite frankly.

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I get the angle you're coming from. And I don't doubt your hate for Carcillo.
But this.

If injury-causing flagrant fouls are occurring frequently, increases in severity of punishment need to occur. It's not "just" that he crosschecked someone (you know as well as I that it happens all the time). It's that he's consistently (on average at least once a season), going into a situation recklessly with no other visible intent than to harm a player. It's that overall attitude that needs to be adjusted, not "just" what he does to get the penalty in the first place. And history has proven that suspensions like this aren't providing the necessary force to adjust. I mean, how many times do they let the cycle continue? Nine more times? "You hurt a guy, you sit for a few games. You hurt another guy, you sit for a few games. You hurt a guy, OK, you sit for a couple more games." Like, when do they actually attempt to jar him awake and change his attitude.

If I recall, he's losing about $40k for this suspension. That is a decent chunk of money. For a guy like Carcillo that's basically playing year-to-year on low-end contracts, I guarantee that a higher punishment (and greater loss of salary) might make his ears perk up a little. Or maybe I'm giving him a little too much credit.

A lot of it is to Carcillo's long-term benefit too. I mean, the guy has some skill. And he's basically flushing his career down the toilet by this attitude. He's a liability to a team, and therefore he's going to continue jumping from place to place and fighting for contracts. If teams could trust him a bit more, there's still time to partially resurrect his career.
Your bravery is commendable.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Trust me, Carcillo's "skill" is vastly overstated by people rationalizing thugs still in the NHL. Shawn Thornton makes Carbomb look like he belongs in beer leagues. The guy is not good. He has flashes that he belongs, but that's about it.

This might be the first time we disagree, but I really don't think they under-suspended here. Like I said, it's a crazy precedent to start suspending anyone double digit games for a crosscheck to the arm. The NHL has historically suspended those kinds of things for flagrant head shots, they can't just start a new precedent with Carcillo unless they decide that crosschecks are now worthy of that type of suspension.

It needs to be a combination of the act and the player's history. The normal suspension for this would be MAYBE 1 game, if it were someone like Patrick Kane or Pavel Datsyuk that have 0 history or indication of being dirty, it's probably just a fine. That said, this was 6x what the normal suspension would be. That's a large difference from what the normal penalty would be.

Again, you can't just arbitrarily "throw the book" at someone just because you don't think they're getting it. Punishment has to fit the crime.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, I have a feeling we're not going to come to an agreement here, but that's OK. We always have Keith Yandle and about a million other things to unite us.

In fact, I agree with just about everything said in the bolded.

The difference with Carcillo is he just KEEPS doing shit. Over and over again. When is it too much? Do you provide the wakeup call now? Or wait until he (seemingly inevitably) commits his next injuring penalty? I don't think the precedent would be that you're throwing the book at a player for cross-checking; you're throwing the book at him for not being willing to change his behavior and repeatedly committing injury-causing fouls over the course of a career. That distinction can easily be made.

And yeah, I realize I'm starting to repeat myself here, which is what no one wants to read. So I'll probably call it good here, unless you'd like me to respond to anything more. I don't want to make it seem like I'm cutting you off mid-discussion. But I also hate for everyone to have to read my arguments over and over again. :)

And yeah, I've watched Carcillo play and I know he's not a superstar. He won't ever be making $7 million a year. Maybe not even $3 million. But he's a good skater with decent hands. He's even got a good amount of hockey sense. He could make a dandy living playing on a third line, rather than being peddled around the league for 6th and 7th round draft picks. I think a lot of that has to do with his attitude and the risky investment he is to GMs.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Again, it's not about setting a precedent for cross checks to the arm. It's about setting a precedent for being suspended 9 times in 8 seasons. Eventually you've got to send a message that will stick.

edit: ^ beat me to it. What he said

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Agree to disagree, I guess.

If a guy gets caught for shoplifting over and over, do you eventually give him a life sentence because he's not "getting it"? No, the punishments are sure to get more severe though. If that same guy eventually murders someone, then you could bet your ass his rap sheet will help make the life sentence come quicker and swifter though. The punishment always needs to fit the crime. Same idea here. Basically no one else in the NHL, aside from 3 or 4 other guys, would have received 6 games for that crosscheck.

Also, let's not pretend like 6 games isn't a lot for a crosscheck.

Again, I hate Carcillo. I'd love for nothing more than to see the NHL ban him so Bowman can stop fucking signing him for some unknown reason, but this isn't that moment.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I can get behind this idea. Let's go Preds! Glad to be home to watch a game live tonight for pretty much the first time this season.