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-   -   Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?) (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=354647)

Captainnumber36 12-15-2020 03:32 PM

Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
"needle to the vein"

Just curious. Glad he kicked that.

Captainnumber36 12-15-2020 03:39 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Mods please move to main form. My mistake for posting in tour section.

HonestDenver1 03-08-2021 12:46 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Captainnumber36 (Post 17852718)
"needle to the vein"

Just curious. Glad he kicked that.

Not every song is biographical... I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die did not mean Johnny cash was a murderer

GraceBuckley 03-08-2021 10:14 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
For a long time, if I had to pick ONE DMB song that I loved most, R&R was it. The intensity both on record and live, but also the way the flow of the song mimics the mania and also quiet slipping into numbness of drug use is just damn brilliant.

I'd think someone in some more in-depth early interview must have asked about it, but this was before every written and video interview was so easy to find in a central place. Anyone remember anyone ever asking Dave about this song or his comments on it?

RSSR 03-08-2021 11:15 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
I thought it was mentioned here and there throughout the years on Nancies.org and here that Dave experimented with drugs in the early years, I don't know about heroin.

Route_2 03-08-2021 11:36 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
I thought it was about giving blood.

alec 03-08-2021 11:42 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Route_2 (Post 17910775)
I thought it was about giving blood.

:lol

I recall seeing an interview where he was asked about this a long time ago. He said something along the lines of, “I am afraid to try any drug that stops you from shitting”.

HonestDenver1 03-08-2021 11:52 AM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RSSR (Post 17910763)
I thought it was mentioned here and there throughout the years on Nancies.org and here that Dave experimented with drugs in the early years, I don't know about heroin.

Most people that "experiment" with intravenous heroin don't just get off it, they usually require rehab. Maybe Dave is stronger than the average person.

I also remember a story about R&R somewhere that it was about a friends mental health problem, same with the nancies line "23 and so tired of life, such a shame to throw it all away" While the lines can be universal, I truly don't think Dave went through these things at the specific level he's writing about.. Just observations and stories...

R&R is most definitely about a person dying from drug usage due to crippling mental health..

btpeters 03-08-2021 12:04 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
I remember before they played it at Staples N2 2008, he introduced it as "one of Roi's favorite songs"

GraceBuckley 03-08-2021 01:41 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by btpeters (Post 17910793)
I remember before they played it at Staples N2 2008, he introduced it as "one of Roi's favorite songs"

Roi's playing on it used to be one of the things that thrilled me most about it.

GraceBuckley 03-08-2021 04:23 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestDenver1 (Post 17910783)
Most people that "experiment" with intravenous heroin don't just get off it, they usually require rehab. Maybe Dave is stronger than the average person.

I also remember a story about R&R somewhere that it was about a friends mental health problem, same with the nancies line "23 and so tired of life, such a shame to throw it all away" While the lines can be universal, I truly don't think Dave went through these things at the specific level he's writing about.. Just observations and stories...

R&R is most definitely about a person dying from drug usage due to crippling mental health..

Sometimes the level of emotion, terror, pain and isolation in art makes it very very VERY hard to believe the artist isn't speaking from experience. Whether it's from loving someone dearly and closely who went through that, or from knowing at least the cycles of mania & numbness and also the "my head won't leave my head alone/I don't believe it will, until I'm dead and gone", this song sounds like it's from experience. " Maybe not from drug use specifically, or maybe he wasn't "the experiencer" (to your point), but to me there's no way I believe this is just a song written 3rd person, from a distance. And my gut is (but I have no direct knowledge) that if asked about it, specifically if asked if he's ever felt these struggles in his head himself, I'd be shocked if Dave said "No, never".

That's not the same as saying he had to have been a heroin user to write the song, because that's not true. But gonna guess he knew one extremely well and loved them dearly if he didn't experience it himself, because he tells the story of the struggle too well and with far too much emotion not to have known that story up close.

kmb40oz 03-08-2021 04:33 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HonestDenver1 (Post 17910783)
Most people that "experiment" with intravenous heroin don't just get off it, they usually require rehab. Maybe Dave is stronger than the average person.

I also remember a story about R&R somewhere that it was about a friends mental health problem, same with the nancies line "23 and so tired of life, such a shame to throw it all away" While the lines can be universal, I truly don't think Dave went through these things at the specific level he's writing about.. Just observations and stories...

R&R is most definitely about a person dying from drug usage due to crippling mental health..

The band The Stranglers decided to try Heroin for a year to see what creative inspiration it would bring.

https://www.loudersound.com/features...on-heroin-plan

HonestDenver1 03-08-2021 08:06 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Has anyone here done it that could elaborate further? I only shot it between my toes once or 10 times.

ToySoldier#34 03-08-2021 08:21 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GraceBuckley (Post 17911069)
Sometimes the level of emotion, terror, pain and isolation in art makes it very very VERY hard to believe the artist isn't speaking from experience. Whether it's from loving someone dearly and closely who went through that, or from knowing at least the cycles of mania & numbness and also the "my head won't leave my head alone/I don't believe it will, until I'm dead and gone", this song sounds like it's from experience. " Maybe not from drug use specifically, or maybe he wasn't "the experiencer" (to your point), but to me there's no way I believe this is just a song written 3rd person, from a distance. And my gut is (but I have no direct knowledge) that if asked about it, specifically if asked if he's ever felt these struggles in his head himself, I'd be shocked if Dave said "No, never".

That's not the same as saying he had to have been a heroin user to write the song, because that's not true. But gonna guess he knew one extremely well and loved them dearly if he didn't experience it himself, because he tells the story of the struggle too well and with far too much emotion not to have known that story up close.


I agree and I can definitely see it coming from the perspective of being close to someone with addiction issues, it can become a huge part of somebody's life without actually being the addicted person

samiota 03-08-2021 11:08 PM

Re: Was Dave a Heroin User? (Rhyme and Reason?)
 
He's still on the black tar. Duh


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