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-   -   The NHL Thread (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

Lcsulla 03-10-2016 10:52 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16331234)
Tough to lose to St. Louis like that, but that was a hell of a hockey game. My heart was pounding the entire time.

Worse to loose in a shootout no less - thought Panarin had it in the bag in OT when he rang iron. Still, wow, what a game. Crawford and Allen making some great saves (still shocked Allen robbed Kane point blank by sprawling like that), both teams taking some bad penalties, lot of skill displayed by both teams, more of a physical game than I am used to seeing the Hawks play, D was solid on both teams, refs did a damn good job keeping both teams under control and all the players gave it their all. Cannot wait to get Hossa back. My only real gripe was the door, thought Toews was hurt - I still remember when guys just hopped over the rails.

Nice to see the Avs smack down the Ducks - only game out of the six that didn't go to OT or a shootout, nice upset by Toronto, hell of a game between LA and Washington and a solid game between Calgary and Nashville! Just plain a great night for hockey fans!

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 10:58 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
the Blues/Hawks game was great to watch if you ignore all of the dirty hits and terrible officiating

and that's not a tongue-in-cheek comment. it really was good, skillful hockey but with a ton of unnecessary side show crap

Panarin is a joy to watch

Lcsulla 03-10-2016 11:14 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331453)
the Blues/Hawks game was great to watch if you ignore all of the dirty hits and terrible officiating

and that's not a tongue-in-cheek comment. it really was good, skillful hockey but with a ton of unnecessary side show crap

Panarin is a joy to watch

I thought the officiating was pretty fair, guys on both teams just took stupid penalties and deserved to be sent to the box. I do wish they'd give the refs some better monitors for replays - I didn't see an angle that showed definitively that Ladd's (waved off goal) was not legit. So be it though. Great game. Completely agree on Panarin, he is amazing to watch and oddly enough scored the only even strength goal of the game - he is way up in goals, assists and points and plus minus - no idea how he could loose the Calder.

Also, ESPN needs to update their article for accuracy, they said Toews point streak was ended last night but he was credited with the primary assist on the Panarin goal when Crawford was out for a sixth skater!

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 11:49 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16331487)
I thought the officiating was pretty fair, guys on both teams just took stupid penalties and deserved to be sent to the box. I do wish they'd give the refs some better monitors for replays - I didn't see an angle that showed definitively that Ladd's (waved off goal) was not legit. So be it though. Great game. Completely agree on Panarin, he is amazing to watch and oddly enough scored the only even strength goal of the game - he is way up in goals, assists and points and plus minus - no idea how he could loose the Calder.

Also, ESPN needs to update their article for accuracy, they said Toews point streak was ended last night but he was credited with the primary assist on the Panarin goal when Crawford was out for a sixth skater!

i don't know, that game misconduct was a terrible call IMO. and i'm ok with the Ladd goal staying disallowed because that was the call on the ice. you'll have that every once in a while

and i know the refs are just looking at small tablets, but isn't the call ultimately coming from Toronto? or is goalie interference/no goal/good goal called in house?

kev87lads 03-10-2016 12:11 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Go Jets Go!

Lcsulla 03-10-2016 12:13 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331543)
i don't know, that game misconduct was a terrible call IMO. and i'm ok with the Ladd goal staying disallowed because that was the call on the ice. you'll have that every once in a while

and i know the refs are just looking at small tablets, but isn't the call ultimately coming from Toronto? or is goalie interference/no goal/good goal called in house?

I was okay with that game misconduct - the fool had a straight lane to the puck but went for the cheapshot instead.

No doubt Ladd's goal was questionable but was it really interference or just grit in front of the net. Also, not sure whether the review is ultimately judged in Toronto or by the on ice refs with the iPod size screens!

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 12:29 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16331582)
I was okay with that game misconduct - the fool had a straight lane to the puck but went for the cheapshot instead.

No doubt Ladd's goal was questionable but was it really interference or just grit in front of the net. Also, not sure whether the review is ultimately judged in Toronto or by the on ice refs with the iPod size screens!

see i didn't see it as a cheap shot. sure, he had a lane to the puck, but he lead with his shoulder and didn't target the head. he left his feet, sure, but i didn't see it as cheap

i saw that as a 2 minute charging penalty

Lcsulla 03-10-2016 12:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
When you leave your feet for a check it is almost always a 4 minute major. The ref did not have a good angle to see the hit so I can understand how he would have thought it was a hit to the head.

TMoore4075 03-10-2016 12:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 16331579)
Go Jets Go!

fuck you.

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 01:34 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16331627)
When you leave your feet for a check it is almost always a 4 minute major. The ref did not have a good angle to see the hit so I can understand how he would have thought it was a hit to the head.

from my relatively novice interpretation, leaving your feet and/or travelling an unnecessary distance for a check is basic charging

charging AND targeting the head/neck area is where you'd see the 5 minute major & game misconduct

i dunno, maybe i'm off base but i just didn't see a match penalty on that play

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 01:35 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
maybe Matty can weigh in on the hit. here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUxN0893GZU

unccrombie 03-10-2016 01:39 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
bottom line is this, it should be a reviewable play if you're tossing the guy out of the game.
Many leagues have adopted this policy.
I, for one, don't think he deserved a match penalty.
Erhoff clearly bailed out of the check by tossing himself backwards.

kev87lads 03-10-2016 01:44 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16331628)
fuck you.

Cuts me to the core..... :gonnacall

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 01:47 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by unccrombie (Post 16331684)
bottom line is this, it should be a reviewable play if you're tossing the guy out of the game.
Many leagues have adopted this policy.
I, for one, don't think he deserved a match penalty.
Erhoff clearly bailed out of the check by tossing himself backwards.

completely agree

salrx95 03-10-2016 02:14 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Last night was such a trap game for the islanders. Team looked tired and almost pulled it off
Disappointing news on Halak. Sense another first round exit now.

Tri state goalies all going down recently. Crazy.

fonzz41 03-10-2016 02:44 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16331627)
When you leave your feet for a check it is almost always a 4 minute major. The ref did not have a good angle to see the hit so I can understand how he would have thought it was a hit to the head.

Leaving your feet for a shoulder-to-shoulder check is a charging minor. And even then, it's up to interpretation. Even with a clean body check, there is almost always some aspect of skates leaving the ice as momentum carries the hitter forward into the player. It's up to the ref to decide if it was just that, or if there was something more egregious. Now, usually leaving your feet MEANS that high contact is being made, hence sometimes more serious penalties.

A double minor is usually only imposed if a) two fouls were committed on the same play, or b) a visible injury occurred as a result of the play, i.e., high sticking a guy in the mouth, and he starts bleeding.
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331674)
from my relatively novice interpretation, leaving your feet and/or travelling an unnecessary distance for a check is basic charging

charging AND targeting the head/neck area is where you'd see the 5 minute major & game misconduct

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331676)
maybe Matty can weigh in on the hit. here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUxN0893GZU

OK, here's what he didn't do:
- There were no excessive strides before the hit. He was gliding all the way.
- I felt like Ehrhoff was going for the puck in such a way that Reaves could reasonably expect him to have it, and therefore be eligible for the hit. By the time Ehrhoff pulled up, Reaves was already on trajectory to hit him.
- He did leave his feet, but I feel it was more a product of the hit itself (however, more on this below)

Despite all that though, there was one kicker: He targeted the head. It was a clear high hit that Reaves is responsible for. If he would have lowered his shoulder and taken Ehrhoff right in the chest (or bent over and given him some hip action, which is much more fun ;)), not only would his skates have stayed more on the ice, but it would have been a completely clean and legal check. Not even a minor penalty.

While I wouldn't have given him a match penalty, you know how I am with head shots and illegal hits: I want them gone, and the only way to really effect change is severity in penalization. With that in mind, even though there was no apparent injury or anything like that, I STILL would have given him a 5-minute major for illegal contact to the head and a game misconduct.

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 02:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16331807)
Leaving your feet for a shoulder-to-shoulder check is a charging minor. And even then, it's up to interpretation. Even with a clean body check, there is almost always some aspect of skates leaving the ice as momentum carries the hitter forward into the player. It's up to the ref to decide if it was just that, or if there was something more egregious. Now, usually leaving your feet MEANS that high contact is being made, hence sometimes more serious penalties.

A double minor is usually only imposed if a) two fouls were committed on the same play, or b) a visible injury occurred as a result of the play, i.e., high sticking a guy in the mouth, and he starts bleeding.



OK, here's what he didn't do:
- There were no excessive strides before the hit. He was gliding all the way.
- I felt like Ehrhoff was going for the puck in such a way that Reaves could reasonably expect him to have it, and therefore be eligible for the hit. By the time Ehrhoff pulled up, Reaves was already on trajectory to hit him.
- He did leave his feet, but I feel it was more a product of the hit itself (however, more on this below)

Despite all that though, there was one kicker: He targeted the head. It was a clear high hit that Reaves is responsible for. If he would have lowered his shoulder and taken Ehrhoff right in the chest (or bent over and given him some hip action, which is much more fun ;)), not only would his skates have stayed more on the ice, but it would have been a completely clean and legal check. Not even a minor penalty.

While I wouldn't have given him a match penalty, you know how I am with head shots and illegal hits: I want them gone, and the only way to really effect change is severity in penalization. With that in mind, even though there was no apparent injury or anything like that, I STILL would have given him a 5-minute major for illegal contact to the head and a game misconduct.

yea i'm with you on wanting head shots gone, but to me the principle point of contact was the chest on this hit

any head contact was ancillary and minimal from what i see

and again, the refs have to police this and make calls at full speed, so kudos to the refs. i can see why they would err on the side of caution here, i just felt like it was charging and only charging. i don't blame Reaves for being upset about being kicked out

fonzz41 03-10-2016 03:17 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331825)
yea i'm with you on wanting head shots gone, but to me the principle point of contact was the chest on this hit

any head contact was ancillary and minimal from what i see

and again, the refs have to police this and make calls at full speed, so kudos to the refs. i can see why they would err on the side of caution here, i just felt like it was charging and only charging. i don't blame Reaves for being upset about being kicked out

On the clip you sent, you can totally see his shoulder totally hitting him in the mouth. You could say the shoulder slid up into his head, sure. But we could argue about that all day. For me, it goes beyond that. It's getting it through guys' heads that they don't hit UP and into a guy, like Reaves did. You skate INTO them, not UP into them. If Reaves had done that, it wouldn't even have been a penalty. Not charging, not roughing, not anything.

fonzz41 03-10-2016 03:20 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
And also, I agree with you in not blaming him for being upset at being kicked out, because the league has established a precedent that if the guy's not down on the ice unconscious, it's OK.

barbogast 03-10-2016 03:32 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Just watched last night's game. All of a sudden there is a real concern in their game for me. This slow start business can't continue, they have to figure that out. Through 40 minutes last night they had 3 forwards participating, and they all play on the second line. For whatever reason, they're constantly bringing the heat in the third and taking pretty much whatever deficit they've found themselves in and erasing it in 20 minutes. It's like clockwork now.

Hell of a comeback again though I guess. Great OT period. Heads up play by Doughty to let fresh players come on, that's probably the decision that won the game.

Dmitry Orlov is a mad man.

Can't wait to find out how much we'll fall behind by in San Jose

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 03:36 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16331861)
On the clip you sent, you can totally see his shoulder totally hitting him in the mouth. You could say the shoulder slid up into his head, sure. But we could argue about that all day. For me, it goes beyond that. It's getting it through guys' heads that they don't hit UP and into a guy, like Reaves did. You skate INTO them, not UP into them. If Reaves had done that, it wouldn't even have been a penalty. Not charging, not roughing, not anything.

yea, i can get with this :thumbsup

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16331864)
And also, I agree with you in not blaming him for being upset at being kicked out, because the league has established a precedent that if the guy's not down on the ice unconscious, it's OK.

this is still the biggest problem...well, that, and the fact that bare knuckle brawls are still accepted

barbogast 03-10-2016 03:52 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Back read a little bit. As for the hit in question, I agree with Matty that it looks to me like the head was targeted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16331543)
and i know the refs are just looking at small tablets, but isn't the call ultimately coming from Toronto? or is goalie interference/no goal/good goal called in house?

If it's a coach challenge, Toronto does not get involved, iPad screens and on ice officials only. But that's ONLY for challenges, not regular reviews

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16331864)
And also, I agree with you in not blaming him for being upset at being kicked out, because the league has established a precedent that if the guy's not down on the ice unconscious, it's OK.

Agreed. This is the real problem.

lockman21 03-10-2016 04:29 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
I agree with Matty.

That's all.

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 04:32 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
what a day in the NHL Thread's history

H2P is being easier on a borderline hit than everyone else...really proud of everyone in here finally realizing we are watching a #GarageLeague and need to eliminate head shots and fights

give yourselves a round of applause

lockman21 03-10-2016 04:40 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Not quite.

hailtopitt 03-10-2016 04:47 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16331985)
Not quite.

the truth shall set you free

JRS1386 03-10-2016 06:38 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16331969)
I agree with Matty.

That's all.

You can refer to his sig for my situation

TMoore4075 03-10-2016 09:00 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
This team is so bad right now.

JRS1386 03-10-2016 09:45 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Holy shit Jets

salrx95 03-10-2016 10:11 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16332270)
This team is so bad right now.

They heard you. Starting to wake up.


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