Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Look no further than the band insisting on Steve Harris engineer Everyday sessions, only to be placated with 'retaining Harris, alongside Ballard's preferred engineer, and informing Harris he really ought think of his time in LA (with the band) as "a paid vacation" [instead]' ... the band needed better representation to protect their needs/interests (during this era)!
They should have shelved Flohr, and re'upped Lillywhite, imo.
Specifically...

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

If anyone is interested in the Stefan/Lillywhite twitter spat, I posted screenshots of it all a here when it went down: https://antsmarching.org/forum/showt...0#post17701350

Starts third post down - screenshots spread across 7 posts. It's really petty, but IMO worth checking out to get a band member's direct perspective on some of what was discussed in the podcast.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Gotta appreciate Stefan. Worked/works really hard. Great musician. Fortunate enough to be super successful since he was 18. Makes a living doing what most people dream of. Gigantic chip on his shoulder.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

perhaps his age/wisdome allowed him to get over the semantics. It's always been Dave's band.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I don't feel like we really heard anything new out of this, other than the review of the songs. It is surprising that he's still so focused on the liner notes thing, he even kept bringing it back to that when the conversation had moved on.

Regarding the "non-musician musician" comment, I completely understand what he is referring to. Some people have music in them and others are taught, reach a certain level of proficiency, and never get any better because they don't have the innate skill to master the instrument. That is Boyd to a "t".

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Just came to say that there is not even a remote possibility imo that he was talking about Stefan. I also don’t think being a weak link doesn’t have anything to do with Stefan being annoyed that he said “Dave’s band.”

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

This. I was a little letdown after listening, nothing really too interesting came to light about the sessions in this interview with Steve, and I was expecting some juicy tidbits…

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I also felt the same way. Really not too much here other than him being super butt hurt about not being thanked on Busted Stuff. He rushed through the song recaps too.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

He didn’t really ‘rush him,’ rather just shouted him down, (one of few times Norlander exhibits near-uncontrollable fandom imo).

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Not per se (re: studio output); Unless referring to, when working with, 'weakest link' or [Dave said he] '...could go solo, do without all the griping...' during Crash sessions?
Norlander touches on Sillywhite/Stefan's (mostly redacted, May 2020) twitter fye. Lillywhite directly addresses transaction and Stefan's primary gripe: Calling 'us Dave's band' in 1999.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Agree, i wish Matt slowed him down, seemed like Steve was controlling the interview at that part by jumping from song to song. Busted Stuff was talked about for 5 seconds.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Sure; And yet... He's saying what most (some, just me?) already suspected.
Regardless, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than what Dave/band/representatives had previously insisted:
'...Ballard was best (thing to happen to Dave) for band...' or they were tired of ...same sounding record(s), ...nothing new, ...reproducing nostalgia, etc.
More or less insisting what tLWS really needed was Glen Ballard, (i.e. 2002's Busted Stuff; p.s. Special Thanks to Glen Ballard).

Even if one might only reside in a vacuum of dmb's studio discography lone, still couldn't accommodate the multiverse where the segue from 1998's Before These Crowded Streets and 2001's Everyday is anything but "linear," "organic," or "natively"; save for any agency of A&R (à la "...liaison between talent and the record label or publishing company; every activity involving artists to the point of album release is under the purview, and responsibility, of Artists & Repertoire") ...then yeah!
Ab·so·lute·ly
That aforementioned progression not only makes genuine $ense, but also the best thing that could ever happen to the band (and their new/refreshed audience demographic) 💯

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

In fairness he flat out says he is an awkward guy and says/does awkward things under pressure. Which, I can 100% relate lol. I thought he fully owned how fucked that slip of the tongue was and understood why the guys would have received it in such a negative manner.

I could totally see someone being awkward around girls trying to impress them and saying something like "Dave's band" with no ill intent. Especially back then. It felt like the one absolute regret he's come to terms with. The other general "I take credit when it's good and blame when it's bad" felt awkward and like boilerplate producer talk to me.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

God, this thread is strange. I feel like I disagree with just about every single one of you in different ways lol.

I thought the two episodes were fantastic and revealed a lot. And I fail to see how Steve is the bad guy here. Y’all are talking about how “butthurt” he is but I found it actually kinda brave for him to admit that it still bothers him. BECAUSE HE’S RIGHT. He spent those months with the band helping develop those songs… whoever made the decision (whether it be Dave, Coran, Bruce or all of them) to not thank him is a huge dickhead in my opinion. But y’all just wanna stand on your high horse and judge Lillywhite for whatever reason because DMB can do no wrong…

Also, the fact that possibly one of the biggest reasons (at least according to Steve Harris) that we don’t get the Lillywhite Sessions finished is because the fucking DESIGN of Haunted Hollow and how the acoustics were awful feels like some sort of sick cosmic joke. Like I never would’ve imagined it was something as stupid/silly as that. Really upsetting.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I didn't know that Flohr had Capshaw fire Lillywhite. Makes even more sense that Lillywhite doesn't like him. He didn't have the nerve to fire Lillywhite himself even though it was his decision. I'd love to get Flohr & Lillywhite in the same interview and hear them go at it. I wonder if Flohr would ever admit he has regrets about making a bad decision? I've said this before but Flohr claims he fired Lillywhite because he wanted to challenge the band. My guess is the truth is likely that RCA was putting the screws to Flohr after BTCS wasn't as big as Crash, and the Lillywhite Sessions were looking more like BTCS part II than Crash part II. It's all about the numbers. It's also a glimpse at how this stuff actually works (worked), just in case anyone had any doubts about whether the band or label wears the pants. Gosh, it makes me wonder if the label might actually be the hold up on the "new" album? And it's probably not worth getting into but "I think" Lillywhite could have cited several other reasons that he & Flohr don't get along, and as far as I know, they still lob shots at each other. But I will say that Lillywhite seemed more controlled in his criticisms than I've heard him be, almost like maybe he wants to leave the door open on his side. In 2012 the word from Flohr himself was that Lillywhite would be back eventually (this coming after Dave had begun to work with Cavallo again). They (Lillywhite/Flohr) both napalmed that bridge between 2014-2018, but I got the sense listening to Lillywhite that he would be open to a reunion if the dynamics changed.

"I think" Ballard was thanked in the Busted Stuff liner notes because he had a pre-production / writing session with Dave just prior to the official Busted Stuff sessions. It's my understanding that Ballard didn't want to produce another DMB album because he took the Everyday criticism to heart, but he was integral in helping Dave form a few tracks for Busted Stuff so his credit is due for sure. Ballard also encouraged the band to create a documentary about the fans & live experience which became the Gorge 2002 release. Ballard has gold/platinum awards for Everyday, Busted Stuff and Gorge decorating the entrance to his studio. He's still very much in the picture.

I'm not sure I agree with Lillywhite's recollection that he and LeRoi got along. I'd lean heavily towards LeRoi being the reason that Lillywhite didn't produce Big Whiskey (which Lillywhite expected to do). I'd guess that the stories fans believe about the LeRoi "quitting" the band in late 2006/early 2007, and then being begged to come back for the March 2007 Vegas shows, are at best super sugarcoated, and at worst complete lies. I'd bet that serious discussions about the composition of the band took place in 2005 (and prior), and that changes were nearly made that would have significantly altered the touring band from 2006 and on. Some say that Robert Randolph was asked to join the touring band in 2006 (including Robert Randolph himself), and it's my opinion that he wasn't the first person they tried to get to play electric (or slide) guitar on tour. I think that Tim Reynolds was at least the 3rd choice by the time he joined in 2008.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

This is how I feel. The band made the mistake of trying to record in their hometown and on top of that cut corners on making a studio that lacked so much of what is needed to make a good record.

The band and the reps of the band did a terrible job of communicating with Steve Lillywhite and Steve Harris and deciding the next steps after the initial session. How the heck to you invite Steve Harris to come the California then the producer you hire tells him to kick rocks because he has his own guy. That is horrible communication by the label and the band.

This band was amazing live plain and simple and Lillywhite did nothing to help the live show. However in the studio he is a huge reason why this band was so successful. So even if they wanted to part ways with Lillywhite they should have did it much better than they did.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I felt like I learned a lot from this part 2, lots of details and insight that I found interesting

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Carson…. You’ve posted some interesting tidbits that I’ve never heard before. Can you elaborate

1. The plan to bring in Lillywhite for Big Whiskey
2. The Flohr Lillywhite feud 2014-18
3. Randolph being asked to join back in 06 (I do know he was in the studio with them during that timeframe but never heard him being asked to join)
4. Any idea on what songs Ballard helped Matthews with for Busted Stuff? I assume Captain and Big eyed fish since they underwent some big changes

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I'm with you. Some of these things I'd never heard before until now.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Did not know early 2000 haunted hollow was a sonic mess. Sounds like a real physical thing that could have led to a lot of problems like Steve Harris is saying. That's honestly wild. Makes the whole damn thing a fatiguing process. Tired brain leads to a lot of silly shit, makes you irrational.

However, the fact know one pointed out what everyone must have been feeling, and why Lillywhite didn't try and move them after a week or two as the most experience guy is pretty wild to me.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Also, thought it was interesting Harris said he didn't actually feel the vibe sour and didn't get the inclination there were problems.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

i feel like i've always been under the impression that everyone was kinda upset and not in a good mood throughout the sessions

what it more seems like is that everyone was in a fine mood, it was difficult, and the band didn't put themselves in a situation to succeed

it was the first time they met adversity in terms of a situation around a recording that wasn't ideal, and instead of trying to salvage it, they backed out and went a different route

pretty frustrating

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Insane drop here

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

i always read your posts like 3 or 4 times to make sure i dont miss anything


gosh, the stuff you know man

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

1. Lillywhite told me that at some point. I'll see if I can find some public corroboration for it but he's the source on that bit. He told me he thought he was going to be the guy for Big Whiskey and then they went another way. For what it's worth, Batson also thought he'd produce Big Whiskey and he was disappointed when they went with "The Green Day guy." As for LeRoi possibly being the reason that Lillywhite didn't produce Big Whiskey, it's just my opinion (albeit an educated opinion).

2. Lillywhite was upset about the UTTAD release in late 2014 for a few reasons. He directed his anger toward Flohr on twitter. I told Lillywhite who was responsible, and then the person responsible actually blamed me & someone at Sony Legacy. But I remember Flohr saying to me "Tell Steve I'm too busy working with DMB on the next album."

The AFTW mix thing came about in 2018 and that sort of reopened some wounds for Lillywhite but then he apparently upset Stefan when he encouraged fans to find his mixes. That started the Lillywhite/Stefan feud that extended into the "this is Dave's band" drama that came later on twitter.

I think Lillywhite gets along fine with Dave. I think his beef is almost exclusively with Flohr.

3. This is according to Randolph. I had heard a rumor he was asked to join and then I asked him in person some years later, and he said that he was indeed asked to join. It's possible he's blowing smoke, but I don't think he was, given that I've heard similar things from others. You're probably thinking "why didn't he join?" And that's a separate thing that involves my opinion and it might be best not to open that can of worms because I don't want to hurt any feelings. I've been told that people in/around the band learn things from my posts, so I don't want to overdo it.

4. Ballard co-wrote Counting The Stars which became You Never Know. Dave supposedly also played Ballard a few other ideas he was working on. I can't say for certain exactly which others though I know there were others. During that session they also recorded the vocal take for Joyful Girl. The 2nd Ballard session is one of the bigger DMB mysteries that's waiting to be unraveled. Maybe Norlander will read this and be able to get Ballard on the record about some of this stuff.

I kind of rushed through this but hopefully I provided the answers you seek.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

Holy shit, Carson. This information is so much to take in but wow thank you for this.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

:popcorn

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

It was a pleasure to read that.

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

First bolded: I definitely believe you, I want to make that clear. And that would answer a lot of long lingering questions about this album process. I just have a question about what would Flohr/the label realistically do to change the outcome of how this album charts or sells? Especially based on the songs themselves? I feel like at this point in the band's career, whoever is going to buy the DMB album will buy it, and whoever won't, won't. I would understand if we saw them try to market Come Tomorrow in any way, but they really didn't. None of the CT songs were in movies, tv shows, commercials, Spotify playlists, or any of the other ways labels market their stuff in the streaming era. This became long winded but I'm just curious about the role the label would play in a DMB album in 2022.

Secondly, did Dave and Co. ask Ballard to produce the next album after Everyday? I know you've mentioned the second Ballard sessions with him and Dave, but was Ballard officially the guy they wanted for the next one?

Re: Podcast: The Lillywhite Sessions, with Steve Lillywhite (Part 2) - Records & Riff
 

I only became a hardcore like late 07/early 08. But I definitely remember there being rumors on the boards back then that the next album (which eventually became Big Whiskey) would be produced by Lillywhite before they officially announced Cavallo as the producer in like Spring of 08.