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Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 14850130)

For sure. Watch any non-professional game. I'd say I hand out fighting game misconducts for one in every four games I ref for high school levels and higher. Just an observation, not really part of my argument.

:lol yeah that's what I'm basing it on. In the adult league I play in fighting is an automatic game misconduct and 5 game suspension and I'd say there is a fight 1 in every 3 or 4 games. I can't even imagine what the intensity is like on the ice at higher levels.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Matty pointing out McSorley's "role" I also wanted to through it out there that today's enforcers like Scott and Parros don't do anything. Mac could play. Bob Probert played in at least one allstar game. Sure they played with Gretz and Stevie Y respectively but you still gotta have some skill to be able to do that. I'm not really sure why guys like Scott are still around.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Agreed, Clarkson, Cooke, Hartnell, etc can do hockey things. Scott, Rosehill, Parros, etc cannot.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 14850146)

Yeah, like I said, Marty was able to maintain a long, productive career as a fairly steady 5/6 defenseman even after he and Gretz were finally separated.

With the evolution we've been discussing, guys like Parros and Biz will be out of jobs. It's unfortunate because they are not bad people, but there's simply no room for them in the game and on rosters. Going back to the Avs, why would they need Pete Worrell on their roster when they've got Cody McLeod, who's just as willing a combatant (although not as big) but can also keep up defensively and pot a few goals?

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Part 3: Why Fighting Should Stay

Most of my points regarding this section have been covered in my last post, so this will be more of a conclusion.

I mentioned in my first post that fighting is not an integral part of the game like scoring, passing, etc. However, does it belong in the game? I contend that yes, it absolutely does. I believe that there is something inherently noble in the majority of hockey fights. Yes, some are stupid thoughtless acts, but most are done in the interest of standing up for the brothers on a team. Do they need to necessarily fight to send a message or stand up for each other? Not really. Sometimes a well-placed hit (Ference on Steve Ott… remember that gem!) or a timely goal can send a powerful message. But if it comes down to physically challenging an opponent to fisticuffs, that should be allowed. As I said, it is both inspiring and noble to make that sort of sacrifice for your team or a specific teammate. Why are people like my lover Adam Foote so respected as leaders? Because Adam Foote would make that sacrifice for anyone on his team. He would fight for Joe Sakic as quickly as he’d fight for Shjon Podein. Again, there’s something noble about that.

I also admire the respect that goes into a hockey fight. The majority of the time, there is little real malice involved, and both players maintain a healthy dose of respect for each other as they follow the mysterious and un-documented “Code”: Taking on guys your own size (unless you’re name is John Scott), backing off from a fight if the opponent is injured or “done”, leaving it on the ice, etc. It’s fascinating to me how hockey players respect each other and the game enough to leave it on the ice and shake hands after. Sure, there are some bone headed going-ons sometimes, but they are the exception rather than the norm.

In regards to the respect factor, look no further than last night’s fight between Orr and Parros. In most cases outside of hockey, what would happen between two combatants if one fell on his face and was defenseless? The one still standing would probably take advantage of the situation and keep going. It was encouraging to me to see the look of concern on Orr's face as he immediately stopped, you could see him kind of saying something to Parros to see if he was alright, then quickly getting to his feet and calling for refs and med staff. You just don’t see that anywhere else. I also remember the clip of a fighter KO-ing another, then grabbing his sweater as he fell to to prevent his helmetless head from hitting the ice. And let's not forget that famous moment of Chara, kneeling over a fallen and beaten Lecavalier, fist raised ready to deliver a crushing blow that never happened. Hell, I’ve seen guys actually shake hands after a fight. They do it and they move on. They understand they are not bigger than the game and are willing to leave it at that.

Yes, fighting is part of hockey’s culture, but I think leaving it at that is doing a disservice to hockey culture. SELFLESSNES is part of hockey’s culture, and that manifests itself sometimes through fighting. If fighting is banned, it in some ways inhibits players from expressing that type of selflessness and devotion to each other that makes this game so great. Fighting overall is going down in the league, and if players choose to simply not fight any more, so be it. But I contend that a league mandated ban on fighting would be more detrimental to the culture of hockey than helpful.

I hope this helps, and I apologize for the length. It’s a huge issue right now in our sport, and instead of just providing little snippets of my opinions, I felt at least once I had to give this a more full treatment.

Marty and others who don’t like fighting: I don’t expect this to suddenly change your mind, but I hope it helps you see where I come from in wanting fighting to remain a part of the game.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Good stuff Matty, enjoyed reading that, agree completely.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 14850202)

Good stuff Matty, enjoyed reading that, agree completely.

Thanks :thumbsup

I forgot you've been playing. How is that going?

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 14850219)

Thanks :thumbsup

I forgot you've been playing. How is that going?

It has been a blast, perfect level of competition for me. Picked a random team but got placed with a great group of guys. For people who have never played it really is amazing how the game bonds you with your teammates, unlike any other sport I've played.

Only bad part is last week there was an unintentional collision and I took an awkward fall near the boards and whacked my head pretty good. Pretty sure I was concussed so I'm taking a few weeks off since that's what ended my high school playing days.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Here's the whole fighting "essay" in spoiler tags to cut down on size.

Alright here goes, read at your own peril. I’ve made little comments here and there about my support of fighting, but this is my first foray into fully explaining myself, so I feel I need to be thorough. I decided to split my posts up to not make it seem so tedious to read through, so here is part one. Just to be clear: I make this argument fully expecting not to sway anyone. As I stated yesterday, people either hate fighting or love it, and few arguments will make someone switch sides.But you asked my opinion, so here it is.

First off, we pro-fighters need to be clear and honest with ourselves about a couple things:

- Hockey would survive without fighting. While I view it as an important part of the game, it is simply not integral in the same sense as the red line, goal nets, shooting and passing the puck, etc. Growing up in youth, high school, college hockey, all the way up to the big - I mean beer - leagues, fighting is punishable in most cases by an automatic game misconduct and suspension the following game – and yet hockey survives and thrives at these levels. The fact is, there is little hard evidence that supports fighting being an integral part of the game. People like myself certainly see its benefit, but on more of a theoretical level. Having played the game (and I hate to throw that phrase out there because I know there are others who haven’t played and feel the same way… but I have to draw from experience that I have or I wouldn’t be being genuine with you), I see how fighting has benefited myself and teams I’ve played for, but the fact is, there are no hard facts/numbers, etc. that point to how fighting is necessary to the survival of hockey.

-The true “enforcer” is now an endangered species. It used to be that every team had a dedicated goon – the guy who played 3-5 minutes a night and was there solely to protect his teammates via intimidation and his fists. We’ll talk later about that role, but for now suffice to say I can count on a hand and a half the amount of pure enforcers that still regularly suit up for their team… and I may be using the term “regularly” loosely. Guys like Parros, Orr, and Bissonnette are still on a team’s roster, but often as a healthy scratch or benchwarmer. The fact is, with the skill level of today’s NHL, most teams are looking for whatever advantage they can get, and they need to ice the maximum amount of talent possible to fit their team dynamic. There’s simply no room for one-dimensional enforcers. Is there room for tough guys? Yes, but they need to be able to play quality minutes and contribute in more ways than just scrapping.

Thus, we are literally seeing the evolution of the fighter in the NHL. A prime example is Shawn Thornton. A tough, mean guy to play against, but one who can also contribute and log quality 4th line minutes. Now, by “contribute” I don’t mean to say he’ll challenge David Krejci for minutes, but he can still help his team in other ways besides pounding and being pounded. Cody McLeod of the Avs is another great example.

Becoming more common among teams is the idea of not having a dedicated “enforcer”, but fighting by committee – teammates sticking up for each other regardless of their role on the team. This is usually determined by weight class: If a smaller guy is causing trouble, a smaller guy on the other team will take him on; middle weights fight middle weights, etc. Spreading the fighting around still allows for players to stick up for each other, but without having to waste a roster spot on a talentless goon. In fact, this willingness for all (or at least “most”) players on a team to occasionally take one in the jaw for their teammate can serve to foster a deeper sense of unity.

Now, I now that doesn't address your question, but I'm just setting the stage with this one. God help us. Next, we’ll look at the role of fighting in today’s NHL.

Part 2: Why Do Players Fight?

While there are no proven facts to support this, I think the selfless nature of hockey was fostered on the frozen backyard rinks in Canada where the game really took root. Many of the earliest players came from humble backgrounds, growing up in rural environments where families and friends looked out for each other, and where disputes were often settled physically and forgotten about before dinnertime. One of the biggest reasons I’ve stayed a fan of this game (note I said “this game”, not JUST the NHL) my whole life is because of the team-first attitude exhibited by 95% of the players. It’s what motivates a defenseman to lay down in front of a puck travelling 100 mph. It’s what motivates a forward to go into the corner after a puck knowing he’s going to get drilled. And yes, it’s what motivates a player to step in for his teammate and bruise up his face and knuckles. You will rarely find the consistency of selfless acts in other sports that you find in hockey. That has cultivated a whole culture that has carried on until today.

As was mentioned before, there used to be one – sometimes two – goons on every roster. Their goal was two-fold: protection and intimidation. For the perfect example, look no further than Marty McSorley and Wayne Gretzky. Inheriting the role of Gretzky’s “bodyguard” from Dave Semenko, wherever Wayne went, McSorley wasn’t far behind. It was a true deterrent, as guys knew if they messed with the Great One, they were going to get it from Marty. The dynamic worked so well that the Kings acquired him along with Gretzky in “The Trade”, where he continued to protect teammates while actually becoming a decent 5/6 defenseman in the process. People point to the fact that Gretzky didn’t get nailed a lot because of a) his speed – guys couldn’t catch him, and b) the respect players had for him (much like Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Sakic), but I think a pretty good “c” option could be added that points to McSorley.

While the role of goon isn’t as defined as it was in McSorley’s day, the same concept still exists, and it hails back to hockey’s roots: players stick up for each other. Fighting allows players to police the game in a deeper sense than penalties. Marty, you were right in saying that penalties police the game: A player commits an infraction, he is penalized by a league-employed and mandated referee. He serves his time in the penalty box, and then returns to the game.

However, fighting takes it to a deeper level that some here have brought up: It’s personal. It’s one team sending a message to the other that they will not accept liberties being taken with their teammates. They are not relying on a third party to step in and hand out infractions, they are taking care of it themselves. If a player cheap shots a player on another team, he will most certainly have to answer to that team. They know that they are free to elbow Gabriel Landeskog in the head, but they also know full well that if they do, they will to answer McLeod, Steve Downie, or any other number of players who jump to his defense. Then, after the score is settled via a bout, both parties move on. In this sense I’ve also experienced it dam aggressions before they get too out of control: Things are getting chippy, cheap shots ensue, and finally two players fight. Then, after the fight, things calm down. The score was settled, and both teams moved on with the game. Does it completely take cheap shots out of the game? No, but I am both interested and scared at the same time to see what the league would be like without it.

There is also the subject of the intangible increase in motivation that can result after a fight. Hard to explain, but there’s something encouraging and inspiring when you witness one of your teammates making the ultimate hockey sacrifice of getting pounded in the face for you. As morbid as that may sound, it inspires you to want to play better – to live up and honor their sacrifice. Yes Marty, goals can inspire, but when you see one of your guys giving their all in a situation like that, it makes you want to do the same in whatever your role is on the team. If you’re a scorer, it inspires to go out and work your ass of to score. If you play defense, it makes focus that much more on shutting down the offense. And so on.

Finally, while I understand the point of the “putting butts in the seat” argument, I don’t lend it as much credence as the others I’ve just presented. Yes, there are many casual fans that love to see a good fight, but I’ve heard just as many that find it disgusting. Does it amp up a crowd, which can impact a home team’s performance? You bet. But does it actually increase ticket sales? I’m not sure.

Thanks for putting up with me on this. While this focused on why players fight, my final part will focus on why I think hockey should remain a part of the game.

Part 3: Why Fighting Should Stay

Most of my points regarding this section have been covered in my last post, so this will be more of a conclusion.

I mentioned in my first post that fighting is not an integral part of the game like scoring, passing, etc. However, does it belong in the game? I contend that yes, it absolutely does. I believe that there is something inherently noble in the majority of hockey fights. Yes, some are stupid thoughtless acts, but most are done in the interest of standing up for the brothers on a team. Do they need to necessarily fight to send a message or stand up for each other? Not really. Sometimes a well-placed hit (Ference on Steve Ott… remember that gem!) or a timely goal can send a powerful message. But if it comes down to physically challenging an opponent to fisticuffs, that should be allowed. As I said, it is both inspiring and noble to make that sort of sacrifice for your team or a specific teammate. Why are people like my lover Adam Foote so respected as leaders? Because Adam Foote would make that sacrifice for anyone on his team. He would fight for Joe Sakic as quickly as he’d fight for Shjon Podein. Again, there’s something noble about that.

I also admire the respect that goes into a hockey fight. The majority of the time, there is little real malice involved, and both players maintain a healthy dose of respect for each other as they follow the mysterious and un-documented “Code”: Taking on guys your own size (unless you’re name is John Scott), backing off from a fight if the opponent is injured or “done”, leaving it on the ice, etc. It’s fascinating to me how hockey players respect each other and the game enough to leave it on the ice and shake hands after. Sure, there are some bone headed going-ons sometimes, but they are the exception rather than the norm.

In regards to the respect factor, look no further than last night’s fight between Orr and Parros. In most cases outside of hockey, what would happen between two combatants if one fell on his face and was defenseless? The one still standing would probably take advantage of the situation and keep going. It was encouraging to me to see the look of concern on Orr's face as he immediately stopped, you could see him kind of saying something to Parros to see if he was alright, then quickly getting to his feet and calling for refs and med staff. You just don’t see that anywhere else. I also remember the clip of a fighter KO-ing another, then grabbing his sweater as he fell to to prevent his helmetless head from hitting the ice. And let's not forget that famous moment of Chara, kneeling over a fallen and beaten Lecavalier, fist raised ready to deliver a crushing blow that never happened. Hell, I’ve seen guys actually shake hands after a fight. They do it and they move on. They understand they are not bigger than the game and are willing to leave it at that.

Yes, fighting is part of hockey’s culture, but I think leaving it at that is doing a disservice to hockey culture. SELFLESSNES is part of hockey’s culture, and that manifests itself sometimes through fighting. If fighting is banned, it in some ways inhibits players from expressing that type of selflessness and devotion to each other that makes this game so great. Fighting overall is going down in the league, and if players choose to simply not fight any more, so be it. But I contend that a league mandated ban on fighting would be more detrimental to the culture of hockey than helpful.

I hope this helps, and I apologize for the length. It’s a huge issue right now in our sport, and instead of just providing little snippets of my opinions, I felt at least once I had to give this a more full treatment.

Marty and others who don’t like fighting: I don’t expect this to suddenly change your mind, but I hope it helps you see where I come from in wanting fighting to remain a part of the game.

Click the "Show Spoiler" Button to reveal hidden text.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 14850262)

Dude, sorry to hear about your head. At this point, you can't be too careful and I definitely agree with taking some time off. Hopefully things clear up and you can get back on the ice.

There are always a few duds in men's league -- the guys who swear they should've made the NHL but someone cut their road short. But for the most part, there are few places where you'll find more camaraderie than on a hockey team. Glad you were able to find that. :thumbsup

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

:lol agree. I'd say every team has one guy bitching at the refs, teammates, etc. but everyone else is awesome.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Now that I'm back in Knoxville where there are more ice rinks, I'm thinking of doing what I was talking about a few months ago and starting up ice skating lessons so I can join some sort of beginner old men's league. It's something I've been wanting to do for a little while now.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

I hate when apps change settings with an update. Got a notifciation about a tweet from Dreger and I don't have that on my settings. However...glad it did it here since it's on a topic we've been talking about today.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=433262

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Yzerman, Rutherford, and Shero disagree with me. I understand and am not dismissing their concerns.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=433262

Interesting fact made at the end of the article though... 98% of players in 2011-12 wanted fighting to remain.

EDIT: Tim, great minds think alike :lol

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 14850325)

LOL Wouldn't have even noticed it if my phone didn't vibrate with a notification.

Stevie makes a point about head shots though. We say you can't target the head with a hit, but you can punch the crap out of it though.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 14850262)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 14850308)

Do it! :thumbsup:thumbsup

There's stuff like this all over the internet:

http://www.reddit.com/r/hockeyplayer...yk/just_do_it/

I know it might be a little intimidating at first, but you'll quickly find out how great of an idea it was to just push yourself to get there and start doing it. You'll be sitting here a year from now with the ability to play that game and it'll feel so incredible.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 14850368)

Good for you man!

It certainly is an incredible thing, how hockey teams bond. I've played on men's league basketball and softball teams as well, nothing is quite like how hockey players bond over a short time. I don't know what it is, but the sport just makes friends quicker than anything I've ever experienced.

Good call with your concussion too. The last one I had really was not good, and I just shook it off and finished the game. It was a horrible decision, I knew I was concussed as soon as it happened, and yet I finished the game anyway. Looking back, I thank God something didn't go horribly wrong that day, as I really put myself in real danger...very smart what you're doing.

Do it! :thumbsup:thumbsup

There's stuff like this all over the internet:

http://www.reddit.com/r/hockeyplayer...yk/just_do_it/

I know it might be a little intimidating at first, but you'll quickly find out how great of an idea it was to just push yourself to get there and start doing it. You'll be sitting here a year from now with the ability to play that game and it'll feel so incredible.

Thanks. Yeah I'm going to start getting some money together and finding a few days a week where I can make it down to the rink. Then I'll probably invest in some rollerblades just to practice a bit when I can't get to the ice rink.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Just be patient and stick with it, Chad. Like Chris said, it'll pay off a million times later.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 14850381)

http://www.amazon.com/Green-Biscuit-...=green+biscuit

Pick up these, and a cheap wood stick. Do this to your cheap hockey stick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQQcRWLTjoU

(BTW, this guy has great videos for instructional purposes)

And you're all set for playing outside. Those green biscuit pucks are incredible.

Also, I'd recommend a power skating class pretty quick. Get the basics down first...like being able to stop on at least one side (skating/stopping is a lot like handedness, you'll always have a side that you're stronger on than the other just like your right/left hand. For both turns, pivots, stopping, etc. Get down at least your "dominant" side), being able to pivot to skate backwards, front cross overs, etc. and then get to a power skating class.

You don't have to be great or even good at all that stuff, but just be able to handle it on a pretty basic level, and then taking a power skating class would be like turning on the Nitrous to your learning how to skate. You'll get a lot better a lot quicker. The key to developing yourself as a hockey player is to be able to skate first. Too many beginners just want to rip slapshots top shelf and bar down wristers. Worry about being the best skater you can be first and being able to handle the puck well. Next is passing, positioning, hockey IQ (i.e. reading plays and defenses, knowing when to pass and when to shoot), and THEN maybe worry about how hard and accurate you can shoot the puck.

But skating. First learn how to skate. You'll be one of the best players in your beginner league if you're one of the best skaters. Easily.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 14850383)

Just be patient and stick with it, Chad. Like Chris said, it'll pay off a million times later.

Well I've got to get started first. I think once I get things moving along I'll be able to stick with it.

I'm not really even sure where to start but I was thinking of just doing some basic ice skating lessons to get myself going.

^^^ Chris just solved that dilemma

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 14850421)

Check out this:

Quote:

From beginner to expert, Cool Sports Knoxville, home of the Icearium offers great opportunities for adult ice hockey players in Knoxville, men and women alike. Full Gear is required for all players. Please direct all hockey inquiries to our Hockey Director, KJ Voorhees at (865) 218-4500 xt. 223 or email at kjv@coolsportstn.com
D-League Classes
Work on your skills during a 50-minute coached practice. We run drills to help you with skating, stick handling, passing, shooting, and other basic skills neccessary to play hockey.Each class is followed by a short instructional scrimmage to help players better understand the game and learn more about positioning & rules.Class dates: Every Monday 9:40-10:30pm
Cost: $15.00

For $15...can't beat that. Get some ice time on your own, get your feet wet, maybe do some lessons to get skating down, and then go to some of those classes. They should help with the basics of skating, passing, etc. too. 6 months from now, if you just do it, you'll be 100x better, I promise.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 14850338)

LOL Wouldn't have even noticed it if my phone didn't vibrate with a notification.

Stevie makes a point about head shots though. We say you can't target the head with a hit, but you can punch the crap out of it though.

Exactly. I mean there is a difference in that in a fight you have two people who are consenting but at the same time sometimes the players need to be protected from themselves.

Matty, great posts. I love your "history of fighting" and it's great to get that insight from someone who has been playing the game and involved in hockey for so long. I can try to understand where you are coming from because obviously I do not have the same perspective.

And the fact is, if you are going to argue to get rid of fighting as a safety issue, then where do you stop. The next natural thing to eliminate is hitting, because there are many more hits per game and opportunities for concussions due to hits than there are fights. And I am not going to go that far and argue for eliminating hitting.

But at the same time, eliminating fighting is one thing we can do to (very marginally) increase safety and at least maintain consistency when it comes to head injuries. And the fact is, it just seems odd that we accept fistfights in hockey but I think most of us would not accept it in almost any other situation.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Can't wait for Rivalry Night on NBCSN between the Wings and.....Sabres? Here we go again NBC. Call every Wednesday night game you have Rivalry Night and then have a game between these two. There are a number of teams the Wings could still be considered rivals with even though they haven't been in the East in 30 years. Habs, Leafs, Rangers, Bruins, Pens of course, Devils even. Hell the Blue Jackets. But the Sabres? Maybe hold off on the rivalry night stuff until there is an actual rivalry game on.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 14850438)

Matty, great posts. I love your "history of fighting" and it's great to get that insight from someone who has been playing the game and involved in hockey for so long. I can try to understand where you are coming from because obviously I do not have the same perspective.

And the fact is, if you are going to argue to get rid of fighting as a safety issue, then where do you stop. The next natural thing to eliminate is hitting, because there are many more hits per game and opportunities for concussions due to hits than there are fights. And I am not going to go that far and argue for eliminating hitting.

Thanks. You actually bring up a fantastic point about a ban on fighting leading to a ban on hitting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 14850439)

:thumbsup Don't you remember that one time when the Sabres and Red Wings had all those scuffles in front of the net during that one game?! :rolleyes

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

:lol The Sabres are SO bad.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

So the Sabres are one team not happy the Wings are in the East.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

The Leafs are looking tired out there. They are mentally and physically tired after opening up the season in Montreal last night. Flyers are skating circles around them because of this.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 14850654)

So the Sabres are one team not happy the Wings are in the East.

Myers is not a good defenseman. He's just really, really awful.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Remember when he win the Calder? Yeah me neither.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread

Leafs did not look good tonight and in back to back nights start the season 2-0. That's fun and exciting!