Re: The NHL Thread
 

Ok the trophy thing was bothering me so I researched it. Apparently the Crozier really is a real award (which I swore it wasn't) however it was only awarded 7 times and hasn't been awarded in almost a decade.

The Plus Minus Award also no longer exists, hasn't since Datsyuk won it in 2008. But they awarded it for 25 years and I've never heard of it until today. I genuinely can't believe that I wasn't even aware of it.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

To be clear, just because a defenseman has offensive skills doesn't take him out of Norris contention in my eyes (I kinda feel that's the way this convo is going). Recent-ish winners like Keith, Chara, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Pronger, etc. all were great offensively and still all deserved their Norris wins.

However, their primary talent and focus was in their own zone, where each of them excelled.

Karlsson's first win bugged me because I felt it was offensively-oriented, but with the growth he's undergone in his defensive game, I think he's more than deserving now.

The one that really bugged me was PK Subban. You all know the game well enough to know why him winning an award for best defenseman would bug me.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

exactly this :thumbsup

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before chris pronger in 2000, and without peeking, who was the last defenseman to win the Hart Trophy?

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i would assume Bobby Orr unless another D-man won it after him that i don't know

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First guess would be Chelios

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Bobby Orr in 1972.

That's freaking crazy.

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Yeah, I think you may just have to go back that far. Going to cheat and peek now.

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i thought so

Chelios was a good guess

Lidstrom would've been my next guess but i knew in the back of my head he never won the Hart

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Bobby Orr won the Norris 8 times in a row. That's insane.

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Yeah, damn - that is crazy. Year before that he had a +124 rating that I doubt will ever be matched.

Yeah, that was a tough question. I sort of flipped a coin in my head and picked Chelios over Al MacInnis because when I thought of defensemen who were genuine game changers those two were the first that popped into my head.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Bobby Orr pretty good

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Meh, he was all right. ;)

I still contend that no one - with MAYBE the exception of Gretzky - changed the game of hockey more than Bobby Orr did. I've got a DVD of his that's one of my favorites... it's amazing to see how he forced teams and players to completely change the way they played to even come close to his level. It just sucks that I wasn't around to see him play game in and out.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

And we all know who broke that streak right in his best offensive season in which his team won the Presidents Trophy but had a disappointing playoffs as they clearly weren't "ready".

Maybe he could have won the Hart that year but his teammate did.

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Taking nothing at all away from Orr but damn were those 1970's Bruin's teams stacked! Orr, Dryden, Sanderson, Esposito, Bucyk, Stanfield, Hodge, etc, etc - with no damn cap like today. Wish I could have seen them play.

Sidenote: NBC did a great documentary on Derek Sanderson and his triumphs and troubles with booze and drugs. It is called "Center of Attention, The Unreal Life of Derek Sanderson"

Link here if anyone is interested: https://vimeo.com/130112921

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken that guy went on to win another Norris or two... ;)

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Bruins wished they had Dryden. Cheevers was in nets for many of those teams.

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Gordie Howe was pretty good too! Small bias showing here since he played on the Whalers for a season. Man that 1979-1980 all star game must have been amazing to watch, 19 year old Gretzky on the ice along with Howe, the Esposito brothers, Ratelle, Bossy, Propp, Trottier, Lafleur, Dionne, Sittler and others. Smart move by Scotty Bowman to get all those greats on the ice together!

Weird on my last post, I just cut and pasted that link and the photo showed up! :lol

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Definitely 2 so it was 3 in 4 years and I mis-remembered in my last post. The last of potvins Norris years was his best season when Trotts won the Hart, the isles won the Presidents Trophy. Bossy had 69 goals that season in his second season but the dirty stupid Leafs knocked us out of the playoffs. The dynasty may not have happened without that series. It toughened them up.

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My mistake, I misread an article and posted before I double checked. One curious thing about his career that baffles me is how he won the Conn Smyth (1971) before he won the Calder in 1972.

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That's probably the most well known thing about Ken Dryden honestly

That and how he stood between whistles

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He only played a handful of games late in the season and was good enough that the Habs gave him the reigns and rode him to that cup and a few more.

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Yeah, I love the grit of Gordie.

Here's the thing, and I regret that this will sound like a knock on Howe, because it's not meant to be: Gordie played exceptionally well within the skill boundaries of the game at that point in hockey. And he did it for a long damn time. He deserves all the accolades he's been given and more.

But Bobby Orr... Dude, Bobby Orr REDEFINED the skill boundaries of the game. All of a sudden, defensemen weren't just counted on to prevent opportunities or once in a while participate in them, they were able to CREATE them. And to do it with speed, precision, and intelligence equal to any forward. Orr could outskate anyone, could outshoot anyone, could outhink anyone, and the dude still blocked shot and hit with the best of 'em...

And everyone - those on his team and on opposing teams - had to evolve along with him in order to keep up. Defenses had to adjust to having the potential of four attackers instead of three. Backchecking became a primary skill of focus for forwards principally because of Bobby Orr. Box defense on the penalty kill became common because of the threat of a PP QB like Orr. Hell, the position of PP QB belonging to a defenseman essentially started with Orr. There's so much of today's game that we don't even think about that was influenced - whether heavily or slightly - by Bobby Orr.

Great players have played the game, but Orr changed it.

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Yeah. He won 3 total, right? Potvin is a legend in New York, but woefully underappreciated out of it.

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Great post. This is exactly why Bobby Orr was probably the most important hockey player of all time. Like you said, he completely changed how the game was played. He was very much ahead of his time.

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Yeah. I hate to jinx it by saying dynasty, but...

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It's ok. I held true to form, dominated the regular season, finished in first place, got smoked in my round one matchup

Sound familiar?!?!?!?!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I think he was. I mean, the next closest would be Wayne, who certainly did his own changing of the game. But if I really dissected the game and how it was played down to its core, I would give the edge to Bobby.

Again, not to diminish #99. The big thing that Wayne did is revolutionize the marketing and popularity of hockey. He was on the right stage at the right time, with the right set of completely unmatched dazzling skills, to inspire thousands of kids to play hockey that may have never picked up the sport otherwise. I mean, the Gretzky trade is pretty much responsible for hockey in expansion markets and all these American kids getting drafted in high spots these days.

But of course, he wasn't just a figurehead. He was, IMO, the best player of all time. I mean, just look at the record books. But in terms of CHANGING the game, I would give it to Bobby.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Legendary to even the Rag$ fans as they still can't forget him and still do their stupid Potvin chant to this day.

He won 3 in 4 years, scoring 30 goals or more in each but none during the Cups years. Islanders mostly won no hardware during the Cup years. It was a team effort. Bossy was the Lady Byng a few times and Smith won the Vezina once but that about it during the Cup years.....besides the Conn Smythe, of course :)

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Matty, this made me think of you

Sorry for the mobile link

http://m.thn.com/blog/hit-of-the-yea...ect-hip-check/