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TMoore4075 07-05-2011 02:26 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wampa3 (Post 12747800)
Still kind of surreal to me to see these words written
It was weird typing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12747787)
Here is my rant from another forum:

I do not get, for the life of me, why this is not being talked about more. Yes, it is a kick in the balls to the GM who has to make a tough call between matching the offer sheet or taking the draft picks. But this is a chance to get a franchise player. I mean there are three of them out there. Stammer. Doughty. And you could probably argue Yandle as well. This isn't a freaking gentleman's club. This is competitive. You paint yourself into a corner with salaries (St Louis, lecav, malone, etc.), you are a low budget team, and now you can't afford Stammer, well too bad. These aren't on the cusp players. they are already stars to superstars.

If the rival GM chooses to pick on you five years down the road, so be it. but that shouldn't detract from offers being made. These offers are made all the time in the NBA and it's just accepted. Take care of your RFAs or else someone might swoop in and take them.

I am just appalled that not one offer has been made to any of the significant RFAs.

I heard Loiselle on the radio with Bobcat a few days ago. "we won't submit an offer sheet because the other team will just match". Then make a high offer sheet and make them commit, at least its strategic.

WTF???
I don't know if it's they can't afford it, Vinick is a billionaire, or that they aren't going to just throw money at him. They want something that makes sense for both sides. If Yzerman learned anything from Holland it's you don't start bidding against yourself. You pay what's fair. He could get a deal for 9mil if he wanted to offer it but they want a competitive team.

As for just putting an offer sheet to kinda screw them, is that what you are getting at? Well there is a lot of work that goes into the contract so to do all that for nothing? Also you get into the risk that they don't match, the only way they don't is if it's a stupid contract, and the only ones who can afford an unmatchable stupid contract in terms of cap space probably can't afford it in terms of actual dollars.

fonzz41 07-05-2011 02:40 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Getting Yandle signed must be a huge relief for PHX. He will be a premier d-man in this league for a long time, although we may not always notice because of where he plays.

TMoore4075 07-05-2011 04:27 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 12748050)
Getting Yandle signed must be a huge relief for PHX. He will be a premier d-man in this league for a long time, although we may not always notice because of where he plays.
Agreed. Although, maybe he/they will be somewhere else next year. Wonder if that was talked about during negotiations. Buff admitted it was talked about during his talks with the then Atlanta Thrashers.

bonzo48280 07-05-2011 08:51 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Campoli says he wants $3 million and Frolik says he wants $2.5. I haven't stopped laughing at those numbers yet.

~Crashintome89~ 07-05-2011 09:03 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Frolik should be lucky if he gets 1.5 mil

lockman21 07-05-2011 09:04 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 12749230)
Campoli says he wants $3 million and Frolik says he wants $2.5. I haven't stopped laughing at those numbers yet.
:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol Yup.

bonzo48280 07-05-2011 09:14 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 12749264)
Frolik should be lucky if he gets 1.5 mil
he's not even arbitration eligible either. Somebody is getting traded, I have no doubts.

MacGuyver 07-06-2011 07:09 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12747998)
It was weird typing it.


I don't know if it's they can't afford it, Vinick is a billionaire, or that they aren't going to just throw money at him. They want something that makes sense for both sides. If Yzerman learned anything from Holland it's you don't start bidding against yourself. You pay what's fair. He could get a deal for 9mil if he wanted to offer it but they want a competitive team.

As for just putting an offer sheet to kinda screw them, is that what you are getting at? Well there is a lot of work that goes into the contract so to do all that for nothing? Also you get into the risk that they don't match, the only way they don't is if it's a stupid contract, and the only ones who can afford an unmatchable stupid contract in terms of cap space probably can't afford it in terms of actual dollars.
Like I said, this isn't just for any player. we always talk about teh big 3. Stammer is probably the number 4 player in the league. Pittsburgh and Washington seem to do just fine with having one player making 20% of the salary cap (or did when they signed crosby and OV to those deals). Infact pitts won the cup having pretty much two superstars, a decent to good goalie, and a decent defense core. You can win in this league building around 1-2 max players and spreading the rest of the $$$ appropriately.

You're telling me it isn't worth offering stammer ten million over ten years? would you consider that a stupid contract? The kid is 21 after all.

For the life of me I just don't understand it. Why the hell hasn't a team at least offered anything out to him. :BANG:BANG

fonzz41 07-06-2011 07:30 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Tweet from Buccigross (and others):

Quote:
Tampa has reportedly offered Steve Stamkos 5 -year deal for $37.5 million, cap hit of $7.5 million a season. If true, it's fair. He's 21.

MacGuyver 07-06-2011 07:37 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
It's fair but a team like the leafs, who have the financial wherewithal to max out their cap, bury salaries in the minors, etc. should be offering him over 10 per. 96 goals in two seasons and he's 21. so what if this jacks up salaries league wide. Isn't it about winning and being competitive??

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 07:56 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12749813)
Like I said, this isn't just for any player. we always talk about teh big 3. Stammer is probably the number 4 player in the league. Pittsburgh and Washington seem to do just fine with having one player making 20% of the salary cap (or did when they signed crosby and OV to those deals). Infact pitts won the cup having pretty much two superstars, a decent to good goalie, and a decent defense core. You can win in this league building around 1-2 max players and spreading the rest of the $$$ appropriately.

You're telling me it isn't worth offering stammer ten million over ten years? would you consider that a stupid contract? The kid is 21 after all.

For the life of me I just don't understand it. Why the hell hasn't a team at least offered anything out to him. :BANG:BANG
I was typing a long thought out response and of course closed the tab. Anyways so you later mention the Leafs. You really think Brian Burke will be offering that to Stammer? The guy who told his young players in Anaheim they couldn't pick their number as a rookie they had to earn that? You can bury guys all you want but you have to have players around you. The Pens are built around Malkin and Crosby but it wasn't them who won the Cup, at least not the Finals. They combined for 3 goals in that series I think against the Wings. Talbot alone had 4. Staal and Kennedy both had 2 each. Crosby was invisible for the most part. The Sedins this year did nothing in the Finals. You can have as many superstars as you want but it's the other guys who make a difference.

Edit: Burke JUST NOW said "Burke: "I do not believe players are going to play nine or 10 years on some of these contracts that have been signed."

Same goes for the Flyers. They would have to trade away stuff to be able to afford Stamkos. Most likely would have to work a deal with TB (can't imagine anyone would want to help them get Stamkos) and there is nothing the Flyers have that would be enough to get a return for Stamkos. Plus even if you did that, it's tough to fill out your roster with good enough talent. Ask the Hawks.

Yzerman is taking his time. He's learned from the best. He's trying to come up with a deal that works for both sides and still let him to put a team together. Downie, Purcell and Bergenheim were all right there with Stamkos in scoring in the playoffs. He's going to try and create a culture like the Red Wings have. Take a little less, you'll still get paid well, and we'll put a team around you and give you the best chance to win. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Kronwall, Lidstrom, Stuart and Howard are all signed and have 7mil in cap space.

The teams that have the cap space and a roster spot for him are the Stars, Canes, Preds, Avs, Sens, Jets and Coyotes. All are small market teams or don't have owners right now.

dduncan6er 07-06-2011 08:01 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Signing Stamkos to a 10 year $10 million deal would guarantee the Leafs would not win a cup within the next 10 years.

MacGuyver 07-06-2011 08:23 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12749961)
I was typing a long thought out response and of course closed the tab. Anyways so you later mention the Leafs. You really think Brian Burke will be offering that to Stammer? The guy who told his young players in Anaheim they couldn't pick their number as a rookie they had to earn that? You can bury guys all you want but you have to have players around you. The Pens are built around Malkin and Crosby but it wasn't them who won the Cup, at least not the Finals. They combined for 3 goals in that series I think against the Wings. Talbot alone had 4. Staal and Kennedy both had 2 each. Crosby was invisible for the most part. The Sedins this year did nothing in the Finals. You can have as many superstars as you want but it's the other guys who make a difference.

Edit: Burke JUST NOW said "Burke: "I do not believe players are going to play nine or 10 years on some of these contracts that have been signed."

Same goes for the Flyers. They would have to trade away stuff to be able to afford Stamkos. Most likely would have to work a deal with TB (can't imagine anyone would want to help them get Stamkos) and there is nothing the Flyers have that would be enough to get a return for Stamkos. Plus even if you did that, it's tough to fill out your roster with good enough talent. Ask the Hawks.

Yzerman is taking his time. He's learned from the best. He's trying to come up with a deal that works for both sides and still let him to put a team together. Downie, Purcell and Bergenheim were all right there with Stamkos in scoring in the playoffs. He's going to try and create a culture like the Red Wings have. Take a little less, you'll still get paid well, and we'll put a team around you and give you the best chance to win. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Franzen, Kronwall, Lidstrom, Stuart and Howard are all signed and have 7mil in cap space.

The teams that have the cap space and a roster spot for him are the Stars, Canes, Preds, Avs, Sens, Jets and Coyotes. All are small market teams or don't have owners right now.

Sorry man, respecfully disagree.

It's one thing to tell your rookies that. Stammer isn't a rookie. He's been in the league three years, gone through an alright rookie season, and has now scored 96 goals in his last two years as a 19 and 20 year old. He has earned his pedigree as the best player outside of the Big 3 and is a bonified superstar at the age of 21. Not sure you can deny that.

I agre you have to have players around you. Would you not argue it is harder to obtain a superstar though than the players you mention - Talbot, Staal, Kennedy.. etc. Is it not easier to sign players of this ilk if you can tell them, why don't you come to our team and join our superstar Stamkos? Conversely, you can have all of these players but it's getting the stars that puts you over the top.

And about not producing in the finals, if I recall correctly Malkin won the mvp of the playoffs so he must have done something right in the first three rounds. And I'm pretty sure those two superstars greatly assisted them in making the playoffs in the first place. How did Pittsburgh do without their big two guns this year? They sure looked different when Crosby was playing.

Where did you hear Burke say that? At any rate, I am 100% positive he is talking about the 30 year olds not playing their ten years, i.e. Bryz, Richards, Hossa, etc. It is asinine to think that if you sign Stamkos to a 10 year deal he will not be playing at the age of 31. And probably playing at a really high level too.

I agree 100% with your thoughts on Yzerman following the detroit model. But that shouldn't stop a rival GM from jumping in and making the pitch. Why not the Jets? perfect situation, need a star, it's in Canada, they have a rich owner, etc. Why not the leafs? Think of the marketing potential.

I'd rather have a GM who is active (not saying Burke has been inactive) and trying to acquire a superstar then one who sits back and says we shouldn't even bother. Again, screw the ethics, it's in the CBA and it's meant to take advantage of. Put the offer sheet out. See if they match. If they do, well, you can say you tried to get the 4th best player in the league.

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 08:59 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12750077)
Sorry man, respecfully disagree.

It's one thing to tell your rookies that. Stammer isn't a rookie. He's been in the league three years, gone through an alright rookie season, and has now scored 96 goals in his last two years as a 19 and 20 year old. He has earned his pedigree as the best player outside of the Big 3 and is a bonified superstar at the age of 21. Not sure you can deny that.

I agre you have to have players around you. Would you not argue it is harder to obtain a superstar though than the players you mention - Talbot, Staal, Kennedy.. etc. Is it not easier to sign players of this ilk if you can tell them, why don't you come to our team and join our superstar Stamkos? Conversely, you can have all of these players but it's getting the stars that puts you over the top.

And about not producing in the finals, if I recall correctly Malkin won the mvp of the playoffs so he must have done something right in the first three rounds. And I'm pretty sure those two superstars greatly assisted them in making the playoffs in the first place. How did Pittsburgh do without their big two guns this year? They sure looked different when Crosby was playing.

Where did you hear Burke say that? At any rate, I am 100% positive he is talking about the 30 year olds not playing their ten years, i.e. Bryz, Richards, Hossa, etc. It is asinine to think that if you sign Stamkos to a 10 year deal he will not be playing at the age of 31. And probably playing at a really high level too.

I agree 100% with your thoughts on Yzerman following the detroit model. But that shouldn't stop a rival GM from jumping in and making the pitch. Why not the Jets? perfect situation, need a star, it's in Canada, they have a rich owner, etc. Why not the leafs? Think of the marketing potential.

I'd rather have a GM who is active (not saying Burke has been inactive) and trying to acquire a superstar then one who sits back and says we shouldn't even bother. Again, screw the ethics, it's in the CBA and it's meant to take advantage of. Put the offer sheet out. See if they match. If they do, well, you can say you tried to get the 4th best player in the league.
Burke just said it this afternoon at a press conference and said they will not be tendering offer sheets. You really think the Leafs who just lost out on 2 first round picks (while missing the playoffs) will go another 4 years without one of their own? I know Stamkos is great but with a cap you need your picks. Leafs don't have much depth in their organization thanks to previous management.

Stamkos is top talent. Not denying that. Just looking at the teams with the cap space and the financial power to pull that off, there aren't enough.

The Jets are a small market team. They have the ownership but their ownership wants to be financially viable too. They can't afford to be at the ceiling. Expect them to be more like what the Sabres were doing before. I gave my reasons for the Leafs above. Marketing in Canada? Do they need that? The Leafs sellout every game. Their fans are dumb enough to buy tickets already.

Malkin and Crosby got them to the Finals for sure but still take out Talbot, probably even more so Staal since his SH goal in game 4 tied the game, they don't win the Cup. He doesn't score maybe the Wings go up 3-1 in that game which would have put them up 3-1 in the series.

Again I have nothing wrong with the ethics of it. It's there and you can use it. I'm just pointing out that the teams who have the cap space can't afford it because they are small markets. The teams who don't have the cap space will have to trade off good players to get him in since they'll have to give him 10mil or more a year. Anything at 8-9mil gets matched. Also I wonder if the CBA has something to do with it. Cap could very well get lowered next year. It lowers to lets say 55mil it would be tough to field a team. Maybe for once some GM's are planning for the future. If teams need to get under the cap there will be buyouts or trades and you can grab some of that maybe.

dduncan6er 07-06-2011 09:28 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12750264)
Burke just said it this afternoon at a press conference and said they will not be tendering offer sheets. You really think the Leafs who just lost out on 2 first round picks (while missing the playoffs) will go another 4 years without one of their own? I know Stamkos is great but with a cap you need your picks. Leafs don't have much depth in their organization thanks to previous management.

Stamkos is top talent. Not denying that. Just looking at the teams with the cap space and the financial power to pull that off, there aren't enough.

The Jets are a small market team. They have the ownership but their ownership wants to be financially viable too. They can't afford to be at the ceiling. Expect them to be more like what the Sabres were doing before. I gave my reasons for the Leafs above. Marketing in Canada? Do they need that? The Leafs sellout every game. Their fans are dumb enough to buy tickets already.

Malkin and Crosby got them to the Finals for sure but still take out Talbot, probably even more so Staal since his SH goal in game 4 tied the game, they don't win the Cup. He doesn't score maybe the Wings go up 3-1 in that game which would have put them up 3-1 in the series.

Again I have nothing wrong with the ethics of it. It's there and you can use it. I'm just pointing out that the teams who have the cap space can't afford it because they are small markets. The teams who don't have the cap space will have to trade off good players to get him in since they'll have to give him 10mil or more a year. Anything at 8-9mil gets matched. Also I wonder if the CBA has something to do with it. Cap could very well get lowered next year. It lowers to lets say 55mil it would be tough to field a team. Maybe for once some GM's are planning for the future. If teams need to get under the cap there will be buyouts or trades and you can grab some of that maybe.
:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 09:57 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Sounds like Langenbrunner and Arnott are going to sign with the Blues.

fonzz41 07-06-2011 10:00 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12750438)
Sounds like Langenbrunner and Arnott are going to sign with the Blues.
That'll up the ol' average age on the Blues roster a bit.

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 10:03 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Speaking of age, do we have a site that gives us the average age of NHL teams?

Bron Yr Aur 07-06-2011 10:04 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 12749293)
he's not even arbitration eligible either. Somebody is getting traded, I have no doubts.
He has literally zero leverage, I don't really see what he's doing. If Stan falls for the trap and gives him more than $2mil a year for more than a year or two, that will be a huge mistake.

However, I'd much rather have Frolik for around $2mil than Campoli for $2.25 - 2.5m.

bonzo48280 07-06-2011 10:10 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 12750450)
That'll up the ol' average age on the Blues roster a bit.
It will still be great when our fourth line demolishes that team next year, always always always great when the Hawks and Blues play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 12750461)
He has literally zero leverage, I don't really see what he's doing. If Stan falls for the trap and gives him more than $2mil a year for more than a year or two, that will be a huge mistake.

However, I'd much rather have Frolik for around $2mil than Campoli for $2.25 - 2.5m.
Stan is not going to overpay anybody. Those days are over. Stalberg is close to a deal and they aren't going to get to arbitration for him, and Bowman isn't going to lose Campoli for nothing. Maybe Frolik and Campoli get packaged for that 2nd line center? Who knows.

Bron Yr Aur 07-06-2011 10:24 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 12750488)
Stan is not going to overpay anybody. Those days are over. Stalberg is close to a deal and they aren't going to get to arbitration for him, and Bowman isn't going to lose Campoli for nothing. Maybe Frolik and Campoli get packaged for that 2nd line center? Who knows.
Honestly, I don't think any major moves are going to be made.

And wouldn't it be advantageous to go to arb. with Stalberg and Campoli? Would give them a loophole to buy out fucking Olesz (pg. 51 http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf)....

Even though I don't think they want to buy-out, seems like they think this guy can play a role for the team next year. IMO, that's a big mistake.

DMBCubs25 07-06-2011 10:49 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
I don't see anyone giving up a quality 2nd line center for Frolik and Campoli, that would be a terrible return for them.

bonzo48280 07-06-2011 10:55 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 12750556)
Honestly, I don't think any major moves are going to be made.

And wouldn't it be advantageous to go to arb. with Stalberg and Campoli? Would give them a loophole to buy out fucking Olesz (pg. 51 http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf)....

Even though I don't think they want to buy-out, seems like they think this guy can play a role for the team next year. IMO, that's a big mistake.
you've been reading 300level too much. :lol

The Hawks already have that extra buyout because they filed for arbitration. Stalberg is going to get a deal done before his hearing. Campoli is just being an idiot thinking he deserves a higher payday because of how overpaid everyone became this year, but he is restricted and that lowers how much you get, unless you're Stamkos.

I think that there is no possible way the Hawks are done. Name me the centers on this team, the true centers, Sharp doesn't count:

Toews
Bolland

Kruger is good and has a great future, but I don't want him running the third line already next season. Sharp could probably play 2nd line C and put Bolland at 3rd line, but then who is your 4th line center? Mayers? He hasn't played there in a while. I would much rather have a Faceoff specialist in that spot to do that. If you ask me this team still needs 2 centers, a 2nd and a 4th. Mayers could be the 4th line center and Sharp could be 2nd line center, but we all know both are better on the wings.

DMBCubs25 07-06-2011 11:00 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Agree on the 2nd-line center, I really don't want to have to move Sharp back there. Our best hope is to acquire that guy via trade but I can't think of any names off the top of my head that would fill that.

bonzo48280 07-06-2011 11:02 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBCubs25 (Post 12750753)
Agree on the 2nd-line center, I really don't want to have to move Sharp back there. Our best hope is to acquire that guy via trade but I can't think of any names off the top of my head that would fill that.
Dubinsky or Callahan from the Rangers come to mind immediately.
Stoll from the Kings comes to mind, they need wingers.

DMBCubs25 07-06-2011 11:04 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 12750760)
Dubinsky or Callahan from the Rangers come to mind immediately.
Stoll from the Kings comes to mind, they need wingers.
I doubt LA would trade within the conference.

What's the Rags cap situation after Richards? I don't know why they would give up either of those two unless they were in a serious bind.

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 11:10 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMBCubs25 (Post 12750774)
I doubt LA would trade within the conference.

What's the Rags cap situation after Richards? I don't know why they would give up either of those two unless they were in a serious bind.
15mil in cap space and 7 roster spots to fill. They should be fine.

fonzz41 07-06-2011 11:26 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 12750760)
Dubinsky or Callahan from the Rangers come to mind immediately.
Good luck prying these guys from NYR. They, along with Staal and Hank, are the core of the Rangers. Wouldn't be surprised to see Callahan wear the C next year.

But yes, there is a definite need for a second line center on the Hawks. Patrick Stefan? Rico Fata?

DMBCubs25 07-06-2011 11:33 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 12750872)
Good luck prying these guys from NYR. They, along with Staal and Hank, are the core of the Rangers. Wouldn't be surprised to see Callahan wear the C next year.

But yes, there is a definite need for a second line center on the Hawks. Patrick Stefan? Rico Fata?
Fata for sure!

TMoore4075 07-06-2011 12:01 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Craig Ramsay will be an assistant coach with the Panthers. Was hoping he would come here. Dang it.


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